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[UrbanRats]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=675545

Still fun to see the BCS announcement thread and its mild at best enthusiasm given the quality of show that we have now. The stink of the word "prequel" has been washed away.

I was always a believer, however i didn't expect it to be THIS good, myself, i was expecting more of a comedic show, and i would've been happy with that.

This is just lightning in a bottle twice in a row, lol.
---
Anyway, the episode was amazing, of course.

 

[Spikematic]

Some interesting points on Chuck's condition.

My view is that it is 'real'. Just because it is in his head, doesn't make it fake. A mental condition can be, and often is, just as serious as a physical one.

The way it was portrayed and angled by Jimmy & Kim was very clever.

They showed that Chuck can play it up 'when he wants to'. They also showed, he can 'dial it down' when he needs to. That does not directly mean the condition is fake, although gives that impression it is 'just in his head's.

I think it hurt Jimmy to practically call out Chuck as a 'fake'. Because he knows it is 'real'. You could see the anguish in his face and I don't believe that reaction was false.

Even after everything, Jimmy cares for his brother. He always has and always will.

Very well put.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Anyone else get excited when Huell showed up?

 

[Hermii]

Anyone else get excited when Huell showed up?

He lost so much weight, I actually had to rewind to double check.

 

[SpaceWolf]

He lost so much weight, I actually had to rewind to double check.

YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO SAY REASONABLY, DAMN YOU!

 

[JohnDoe]

Anyone else get excited when Huell showed up?

Reasonably.

 

[MrBadger]

so Chuck is basically Frank Grimes, right?

I'm tempted to necro that thread and quote all those posts that says 'do not want' and laugh at their faces, but I'm not sure how the mods would feel about that.

In fairness, the show's premise sounded terrible and most people I know still haven't given it a shot despite my insistence that it's great.

 

[Rymuth]

Not a lawyer, but regardless of whether it is 'technically' admissible, it's purpose was to cast doubt onto Chuck's mental health and his lucidity. It worked in two parts: first it established that Chuck's sensitivity is something that only exists in his mind. If he's unaware that something electric is near him, then he's not hurt by it. And the fact that he is in denial of that proves that he atleast doesn't have a full understanding of his illness. But that wouldn't mean anything on it's own if not for the second part, because even if his pain is only psychosomatic, it doesn't mean he doesn't have a lucid view on his surroundings.

The true goal was actually to get him flustered. That's why he brought in Rebecca and why he played all these mindgames. But it's been repeatedly established that Chuck takes the reputation of his mental health very seriously. He refuses to be called crazy, and Jimmy just made the insinuation that he is, atleast in his mind. That set him off, and got him raving.

Think about how the rest of the court would have percieved it. Imagine you've never seen the episode where Jimmy does the billboard scam. "The billboard! Do you think anyone falls like that? He orchestrated it! Jimmy!" What billboard, what guy, who fell, how, orchestrated what? is what everyone is thinking. "I knew it was 1216! One after Magna Carta! As if I could ever make such a mistake" What? "He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him!" You saved him from shitting through a sunroof? And he just goes on for a solid minute that Jimmy did this, did that. He looks like a crazy person. We all know what he's talking about, but to anyone else, he's just rambling about random nouns and verbs that don't form anything coherent.

I don't know whether it will get him his liscense rejected and I don't even know if the board will not punish him for pulling something like this off, but by making such a big rant, he's drawn all the attention to himself and cast major doubt on his lucidity. Jimmy will get what he's gonna get for the breaking and entering and destruction of personal property, but there is now too much doubt cast on Chuck's lucidity to take Jimmy's confession at face value.

Edit: Actually, the smart thing would be for the Chuck's lawyer to do some damage control now. "What billboard? What about the magna carta? What sunroof?" I don't know if it'd work, but leaving it at that is the worst thing they could do.

Good read.

Surprised they didn't have Chuck call him 'Slippin Jimmy', that's what was missing from his rant.

 

[Creaking]

It was a scam.

Man, just rewatching that one clip, it's amazing how much the show has improved. And it wasn't bad to begin with.

 

[SpaceWolf]

In fairness, the show's premise sounded terrible and most people I know still haven't given it a shot despite my insistence that it's great.

Especially considering the original intention when it was first greenlit was to make it a half-hour sitcom.

 

[UrbanRats]

I will ruminate on this for a while, and maybe explore this subject further in a more suitable thread.

I kind of agree with Veelk on that subject.

Unless the author's intent itself is the object of questioning, intent is marginally important in discussing how an audience will react to or interpret something.

To guide (manipulate) the audience to a determined outcome is the whole point, but that doesnt mean that it always goes that way for everyone, which is the interesting part of art, really.

A dialogue between the author and the spectator, with the piece as filter.

Think about the infamous "accidental rape scene" from Game of Thrones between

Spoiler

Cersei and Jamie.

The writers didnt want for it to come out like that, but that doesnt matter to the audience experiencing the scene, all that matters is what's on the screen.

 

[Creaking]

Especially considering the original intention when it was first greenlit was to make it a half-hour sitcom.

I mean, maybe it would have been good in its own way, but boy am I glad that we got this instead.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I would like to point out that Jimmy had already "won" before Chuck's rant: after the battery reveal the attorney making the case for the bar says something along the lines of 'whatever mental illness the witness has' - he had already convinced everyone, the rant was just the cherry on top.

In fact I would argue the realisation of this plays a part in triggering Chuck's rant.

 

[nOoblet16]

Half of the things Jimmy did, he wouldn't have been doing it if Chuck hadn't blocked him from working at HHM. He says that he wants Jimmy to change but he really doesn't believe that because if he did he would have been proud of Jimmy passing the bar on his own secretly and give him a real chance.

But because he didn't he started to resent Howard for it and did the bs with billboard, he lacked money so he resorted to bending the law, which makes me wonder why would Chuck let his brother, the one who cares for him every day, live like that if he loved him? When he actually got a great job it was too late for him to be happy with it since the person he idolised and took up a career in law for, didn't care. Chuck never supported Jimmy and because of the Jimmy "never changed", the only "support" Chuck gave was his condescending attitude that he is doing this for the good of Jimmy.

The sanctity of law bullshit is just that...a whole load of shit. It's just his jealousy that people like Jimmy and sometimes Jimmy can get what he wants by smooth talking and he himself is incapable of that while being in the business of corporate law where smooth talking could be of importance. Yes, Jimmy did illegal shit but even if he hadn't Chuck would have resented him.

 

[Carl]

Finally caught this week's ep. So good to see another BrBa face make a return loved the whole episode. Saw where Jimmy was going but it was still really cool to see play out

I understand why some people don't like BCS but for me it's infinitely better than BrBa so far

 

[Dark_castle]

The recent episode cements the fact that BCS is better than BB, for me anyways, and I absolutely loved BB. How I came to this is by looking at episode 4 and 5. 4 centers around the characters who are big part of BB, like Mike, Gus, Hector, the cartel. The story in the episode simply feels like an episode of Breaking Bad with Walt absent. Then we have chapter 5 which is largely on BCS's original characters and I felt like fuck yeah we're back in business. Episode 5 pretty much ties all the conflicts and the drama between the two brothers together and it was done so satisfyingly that I haven't feel in the same way from watching Breaking Bad. So sad that we're already halfway through the season.

 

[SiteSeer]

maybe i missed it, but did they ever resolve why kim said 'bingo' at the end of the previous ep?

 

[sixteen-bit]

When's S3 expected to be on Netflix? About a year from now?

 

[Neodiablo22]

When's S3 expected to be on Netflix? About a year from now?

They will post it a week before S4 starts

 

[Cornballer]

- Podcast for this week is up

 

[IggyChooChoo]

maybe i missed it, but did they ever resolve why kim said 'bingo' at the end of the previous ep?

She got confirmation that Chuck and Howard planned to play the tape at the hearing, I believe.

 

[Donos]

maybe i missed it, but did they ever resolve why kim said 'bingo' at the end of the previous ep?

A gaffer wrote it last page somewhere. Basicly while it was a red herring for the viewer in thinking they would steal the copy of the tape, it was the confirmation for them that he still had a copy and they could use it for their intention (how they then did in the Ep - Jimmy saying, he lied on the tape only to ease off Chuck etc.)

When's S3 expected to be on Netflix? About a year from now?

Was confused but then i remembered that BCS is on AMC in the US, while Netflix Germany has the Ep right after it airs here.

 

[Don Draper's Hat]

A gaffer wrote it last page somewhere. Basicly while it was a red herring for the viewer in thinking they would steal the copy of the tape, it was the confirmation for them that he still had a copy and they could use it for their intention (how they then did in the Ep - Jimmy saying, he lied on the tape only to ease off Chuck etc.)


Was confused but then i remembered that BCS is on AMC in the US, while Netflix Germany has the Ep right after it airs here.

Same in the UK too. It even says "A Netflix Original" when it starts.

America has to wait for it on their Netflix? That's a bummer.

 

[UrbanRats]

Hard to believe there are still 5 apisodes left.
So much for slow burning. ;p

 

[Sir Doom]

Wow best episode this season. The build up for this. Bravo. Just good ol' court room chest games. That season 1 diagnose by the nurse finally paid off
I was laughing when it finally unfolded.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Whats fucked is that Chuck knows that there's a real chance that Jimmy could succeed if he let him. He doesn't want him to succeed at this. I believe that's why Chuck didn't let Jimmy get hired on HHM. He couldn't even abide the slimmest chance of Jimmy actually succeeding. He hates Jimmy for things he's done in his past. Jimmy took care of Chuck for how many years? Not once did he ask for anything in return. He bootstraped through a law degree, he bootstaped his own firm, and when a time came to help Jimmy, not because he needed it or to bail him out, but on an extension of his own merits, he cast him down.

I think I'd be more sympathetic to Chuck if Jimmy was a parasitic person, but he's not. Chuck, undoubtedly, bailed Jimmy out of something huge, something that would have ruined his life, but it's not shown that this was a common thing. To the contrary, besides the titular bank forgery, Jimmy has done nothing but help Chuck for years now. Not to gain anything, but because he clearly loves his brother. Chuck embodies Americas passion for seeing criminals as criminals no matter how much effort they take to change. It's a self fulling prophecy.

 

[SiteSeer]

...

...

damn i thought it would be more profound, i was waiting for that aha moment. still a wicked strong ep.

 

[SpaceWolf]

This show is going to need a Bill Burr appearance to truly feel complete to me.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I kind of agree with Veelk on that subject.

Unless the author's intent itself is the object of questioning, intent is marginally important in discussing how an audience will react to or interpret something.

To guide (manipulate) the audience to a determined outcome is the whole point, but that doesnt mean that it always goes that way for everyone, which is the interesting part of art, really.

A dialogue between the author and the spectator, with the piece as filter.

Think about the infamous "accidental rape scene" from Game of Thrones between

Spoiler

Cersei and Jamie.

The writers didnt want for it to come out like that, but that doesnt matter to the audience experiencing the scene, all that matters is what's on the screen.

It's easy enough to make the case using the only the show itself. There are scenes whose sole purpose is to show Chuck's resentment of Jimmy.

 

[UrbanRats]

It's easy enough to make the case using the only the show itself. There are scenes whose sole purpose is to show Chuck's resentment of Jimmy.

I was arguing about death of the author in general, more than the specific case of BCS.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Was confused but then i remembered that BCS is on AMC in the US, while Netflix Germany has the Ep right after it airs here.

So lucky.

 

[Saganator]

One thing that kinda bugs me about Jimmy and Chuck. Chuck blames Jimmy for their father's business going under because Chuck believes Jimmy was stealing from the cash register. My memory is a little fuzzy, Jimmy did steal from the cash register, but it was just one time, the real reason their dad's store went under was because their dad was too nice and gave stuff away all the time.

Why hasn't Jimmy tried to explain this to Chuck? That is pretty much the root cause of the way Chuck feels about Jimmy, and it doesn't seem like Jimmy has ever tried to set Chuck straight on the misconception. Just be like, "Chuck, bro, I watched dad give free stuff to people all the time. He wouldn't stop. I got tired of seeing strangers work him over. I took money one time, but dad was an easy mark and bad businessman, stop blaming me for shit I didn't do."

 

[MrBadger]

One thing that kinda bugs me about Jimmy and Chuck. Chuck blames Jimmy for their father's business going under because Chuck believes Jimmy was stealing from the cash register. My memory is a little fuzzy, Jimmy did steal from the cash register, but it was just one time, the real reason their dad's store went under was because their dad was too nice and gave stuff away all the time.

Why hasn't Jimmy tried to explain this to Chuck? That is pretty much the root cause of the way Chuck feels about Jimmy, and it doesn't seem like Jimmy has ever tried to set Chuck straight on the misconception. Just be like, "Chuck, bro, I watched dad give free stuff to people all the time. He wouldn't stop. I got tired of seeing strangers work him over. I took money one time, but dad was an easy mark and bad businessman, stop blaming me for shit I didn't do."

maybe Chuck didn't confront Jimmy and just bottled up the resentment for years. Or maybe Jimmy did explain himself but Chuck had already made up his mind. He's been shown to be someone who's opinions don't change easily.

 

[Jokergrin]

So where does the chuck storyline go from here?

How does Chuck possibly fight back hard enough against Jimmy now to get him to end up Saul?

 

[CHC]

So I just realised Michael McKean is that same dude in Spinal Tap. Holy fuck!

W

T

F

 

[GuessMyUserName]

Was confused but then i remembered that BCS is on AMC in the US, while Netflix Germany has the Ep right after it airs here.

Same in the UK too. It even says "A Netflix Original" when it starts.

America has to wait for it on their Netflix? That's a bummer.

Confirmin' this for here in Japan too, been watching as it airs through Netflix.

 

[RecRoulette]

so Chuck is basically Frank Grimes, right?

Totally. Like a perfectly fleshed out version of the character.

 

[MrBadger]

So where does the chuck storyline go from here?

How does Chuck possibly fight back hard enough against Jimmy now to get him to end up Saul?

Chuck is done. I don't think there will ever be a big moment that pushes Jimmy to become Saul, I think it'll be a gradual change. The Saul in Breaking Bad wasn't an angry man constantly trying to justify himself like Walt, he seemed pretty happy with himself

 

[robotzombie]

This show is going to need a Bill Burr appearance to truly feel complete to me.

I mean it's obviously going to happen, but they've been very smart with bringing people in as naturally as possible, so I wouldn't mind it taking a while for it to be "right"

 

[KarmaCow]

One thing that kinda bugs me about Jimmy and Chuck. Chuck blames Jimmy for their father's business going under because Chuck believes Jimmy was stealing from the cash register. My memory is a little fuzzy, Jimmy did steal from the cash register, but it was just one time, the real reason their dad's store went under was because their dad was too nice and gave stuff away all the time.

Why hasn't Jimmy tried to explain this to Chuck? That is pretty much the root cause of the way Chuck feels about Jimmy, and it doesn't seem like Jimmy has ever tried to set Chuck straight on the misconception. Just be like, "Chuck, bro, I watched dad give free stuff to people all the time. He wouldn't stop. I got tired of seeing strangers work him over. I took money one time, but dad was an easy mark and bad businessman, stop blaming me for shit I didn't do."

I'm pretty sure he was skimming off the top and that scene was showing the beginning rather than a one time event. It's not like it flipped a switch since that scene started with him not doing his job and instead looking at Playboys but it was definitely a moment of no return.

 

[smokeymicpot]

So where does the chuck storyline go from here?

How does Chuck possibly fight back hard enough against Jimmy now to get him to end up Saul?

Chuck can ruin the Mcgill name so it will forever be tarnished.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

I'm pretty sure he was skimming off the top and that scene was showing the beginning rather than a one time event. It's not like it flipped a switch since that scene started with him not doing his job and instead looking at Playboys but it was definitely a moment of no return.

I'm still curious if Jimmy did enough direct damage to cause the business to fail. I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy tried to help towards the end, but couldn't reverse his fathers altruism. We don't know the extent, either way, only that he was skimming.

 

[SDCowboy]

I'm with those who think something bad is going to happen to Kim. I just can't see her breaking up with Jimmy and/or leaving their firm, and that's it. That's too simple.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I feel like Jimmy would blame himself if/when he gets involved in crime and Kim died because of that.

I hope to hell Kim doesn't die. Last thing we need is another female character getting fridged.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Anyone else get excited when Huell showed up?

Reasonably.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

So I just realised Michael McKean is that same dude in Spinal Tap. Holy fuck!

So fun when people realize this.

He's also Lenny from Laverne and Shirley (if you remember that) and one of the main characters in Clue.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Not a lawyer, but regardless of whether it is 'technically' admissible, it's purpose was to cast doubt onto Chuck's mental health and his lucidity. It worked in two parts: first it established that Chuck's sensitivity is something that only exists in his mind. If he's unaware that something electric is near him, then he's not hurt by it. And the fact that he is in denial of that proves that he atleast doesn't have a full understanding of his illness. But that wouldn't mean anything on it's own if not for the second part, because even if his pain is only psychosomatic, it doesn't mean he doesn't have a lucid view on his surroundings.

The true goal was actually to get him flustered. That's why he brought in Rebecca and why he played all these mindgames. But it's been repeatedly established that Chuck takes the reputation of his mental health very seriously. He refuses to be called crazy, and Jimmy just made the insinuation that he is, atleast in his mind. That set him off, and got him raving.

Think about how the rest of the court would have percieved it. Imagine you've never seen the episode where Jimmy does the billboard scam. "The billboard! Do you think anyone falls like that? He orchestrated it! Jimmy!" What billboard, what guy, who fell, how, orchestrated what? is what everyone is thinking. "I knew it was 1216! One after Magna Carta! As if I could ever make such a mistake" What? "He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him!" You saved him from shitting through a sunroof? And he just goes on for a solid minute that Jimmy did this, did that. He looks like a crazy person. We all know what he's talking about, but to anyone else, he's just rambling about random nouns and verbs that don't form anything coherent.

I don't know whether it will get him his liscense rejected and I don't even know if the board will not punish him for pulling something like this off, but by making such a big rant, he's drawn all the attention to himself and cast major doubt on his lucidity. Jimmy will get what he's gonna get for the breaking and entering and destruction of personal property, but there is now too much doubt cast on Chuck's lucidity to take Jimmy's confession at face value.

Edit: Actually, the smart thing would be for the Chuck's lawyer to do some damage control now. "What billboard? What about the magna carta? What sunroof?" I don't know if it'd work, but leaving it at that is the worst thing they could do.

This.

Jimmy made the argument "what if I said what I said to make someone feel better?"

Jimmy's argument then was to show that a> Chuck has always suspected bad things about Jimmy, for decades, and always felt he needed to intervene to "right" them b> Chuck's statements about his condition are shown to be unreliable c> In spite of both of these "truths", Jimmy has always stuck by Chuck and taken care of him and Hamlin's (a very respected man) impression of Jimmy was the opposite d> Chuck is shown to be conniving and duplicitous as a means to an end.

Chuck is an unreliable witness, so everything else is spurious.

So fun when people realize this.

He's also Lenny from Laverne and Shirley (if you remember that) and one of the main characters in Clue.

And A Mighty Wind. He's also in Little Nicky!

 

[Fluffhead14]

This show is going to need a Bill Burr appearance to truly feel complete to me.

'ol billy baldy bettah be wearing a hat if he comes back.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So fun when people realize this.

He's also Lenny from Laverne and Shirley (if you remember that) and one of the main characters in Clue.

For a long time I didn't care for him because I mostly knew him as a jerk in Short Circuit 2.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Random: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewFGNSK-H2A