PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I don't think it will happen but I absolutely think it's possible for BCS to dip into [what Saul was seeing] during some of the BB events. That's not crazy at all. (re: question on last page)
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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
When things are going well for Chuck, his mental illness doesn't affect him. Like right after he and Jimmy owned the Sandpiper lawyers and Chuck carried the documents outside.
crisdecuba
Member
Couple of potential reasons - do editors handle audio / levels? If they don't then that could be why. And it could also be she doesn't have the time for that extra TLC.
Technically seasons 2-5.
crisdecuba
Member
Yeah you're right.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I wonder how much of Saul Goodman is a result of Chuck's belief that he will never change? I mean, who's to say maybe Jimmy could have been a decent person and yet Chuck always held him to the standards of Slippin' Jimmy.
Also, I think McGill will still get disbarred for pulling off the Babineaux gambit.
Also, I think McGill will still get disbarred for pulling off the Babineaux gambit.
Zero chance Jimmy is disbarred. He's still practicing law just a few years later in the same city.
minor effort
Banned
I think Jimmy has a larger side of him that actively wants to be the type of lawyer Saul Goodman is. His attempts at a career as an upstanding, ethical lawyer seem more like a life he tolerates with varying success to gain the admiration of those he looks up to (Kim, and until recently, Chuck). It's not the type of career he wants, it's not the type of lawyer he wants to be. He's shown to be constantly bristling under any attempt to follow the practices of a proper law firm like Davis and Main.
I don't think Chuck's rejection made Jimmy into Saul Goodman. That kind of takes away too much agency from the character. Rather, in the absence of guidance figures like Chuck and Kim in his life nothing's stopping Jimmy from being a Saul Goodman any longer.
Even beyond that, my point is i don't think Bryan Cranston would have the time to come back as a regular, and he interacted with Saul almost every other episode, so they'd have to show him quite a bit.
Everything's possible though.
I agree. Chuck isn't really what stands in the way of Jimmy being a good lawyer, Jimmy is what stands in the way. Chuck is just there to kick him while he's down and go "I told you so" because that's what Chuck sees in Jimmy. He wants to reform Jimmy, but Jimmy will never change. Yet Jimmy continues to succeed in his own ways, which infuriates Chuck. Thus, Saul Goodman is not something Chuck or Jimmy created, but is simply what Jimmy was meant to be all along. Saul is the perfect fit for who Jimmy is.
I think we can also see the show pointing in that direction because post-BB in the BCS scenes, he isn't lamenting the life he had before as Jimmy McGill. He missed being Saul, even though he is now safe and has a stable job and a new identity. He missed being Saul because Saul was when he felt the most alive. It was his natural habitat.
Much in the same way Heisenberg was what Walt was, all along, not what the cancer created.
No Heisenberg was just a fucking dick and coward.
Wait you're right. That's who Walt really was!
TVexperto
Member
I want to see how Saul deals with Walters crap behind the scenes and his personal life
Saul was not in danger with the Badger situation, that was just to save a few bucks.
Take that back 💪😡No Heisenberg was just a fucking dick and coward.
Wait you're right. That's who Walt really was!
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Why? It's true lol
Walt is bae 😍😣💦💦😤
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Thing is Chuck's actions and beliefs on how he sees Jimmy creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. He's the reason why Jimmy couldn't progress in HHM despite the fact that he gave him a chance (and even gets Jimmy to redirect the Sandpiper case to HHM, completely disregarding Jimmy's legitimacy as a lawyer in that case among others), because he never thought Jimmy was the "right person" to be a lawyer. And because Chuck doesn't think people can change, and that Jimmy to him will always be Slippin' Jimmy, it's no wonder that Jimmy ends up doing Slippin' Jimmy things. Even if Jimmy is trying to gain the validation of his peers (especially Chuck), that validation is likely what makes him keep going instead of questioning the point of doing good.
How is this gonna work?
He just change his name and start practice law in the same city?
How nobody recognize him?
Yeah. Surely the Bar recognizes him, but you can practice under a different name. He's not getting disbarred, though.
minor effort
Banned
Chuck refusing to give Jimmy a chance at HHM was unfair, but given what we've seen of Jimmy's character so far it's possible his tenure at HHM would have gone similarly to his time at Davis and Main if he were hired. Jimmy wants to be a real lawyer, he wants to be respected by Chuck and Kim, but he still relishes every chance to do things his own way, legitimate or not.
When shown in the present day in Omaha, Jimmy is nostalgic for his time as Saul Goodman even though it ruined his life and nearly got him killed. He isn't nostalgic for his legit job at Davis and Main. He isn't nostalgic for his legit elder care practice when he shared an office with Kim.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I think there was a time when Jimmy legit wanted to work at a big firm, but that time has passed. HMM was all about prestige.
Before he struck on the Sandpiper case, he started doing shady stuff as soon as doing things the right way didn't produce results for him (by which I mean he wasn't getting case calls and had to work in the public law office and not that he was rejected by hmm).
He constantly flips between doing the right thing and not. He takes bribe money, but gives back the million the kettlemens stole. It should be noted that he says he's doing it because it's the right thing, but that also involved helping Kim get HHM off her ass. So even though he gave Mike the reason that it's the right thing, he's still doing it partially because it's best for the one he loves.
I can agree that there was a time Jimmy wanted to be legit, but there was never a time he didn't want to do things his own way too. Jimmy would have lasted a month tops before a situation too convenient to pass up would have crossed his mind.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Being nostalgic about Saul Goodman is after the fact though. Unlike Walt, whose personality flaws revealed themselves after feeling like an insecure and inferior person for years, Jimmy seemed to be in a bit of a internal conflict (asking Mike what stopped him from stealing the Kettlemans' money, doing things the fair way and not really using Slippin' Jimmy tactics until a bit later on) before finally embracing the Saul Goodman side to him. Like HP_Wuvcraft, I think there was a moment where Jimmy felt like he could be just as good a lawyer as Chuck until he crapped on it and claimed he was just taking shortcuts to become a lawyer, and that he will never be on equal footing to Chuck. At that point, Jimmy was like "fuck it, fuck you I'm Saul Goodman/Slippin' Jimmy and proud of it."
minor effort
Banned
I think it's a bit like Walt. They get into the criminal side a bit by circumstance. With Walt it was a cancer diagnosis and the need for money, and with Jimmy it's his brother trying to discourage and derail his legal career which (still to be seen how) winds up with him staring a practice as Saul Goodman. But both wind up going to extremes way beyond the necessity of the original rationale. In the end both still wind up confronting that they desired their criminal life. In Walt's case it was halfway through the final episode when it dawned on him that "I did it for me", up until the it was "for the family".
No let's not reinvent who Jimmy is. Jimmy isn't a straight laced person who discovered his dark side by accident. Jimmy is a career fraudster since childhood, who happened to fall into a period of legitimate legal work, before returning to the person he really is all along.
I feel that Jimmy at some point wanted the prestige of being legit, if for no other reason than to show Chuck he can do it too. That was it. He has no love for legit legal work or being a real proper lawyer. His desire was entirely on the appearance of it and the respect and perks it might give him. So it would always end up the same way no matter what.
I feel the closest glimpse we get at Jimmy living his dream as legitimate is when he's building the Sandpiper case.
The first and most notable thing is that he genuinely seems to not want to take advantage of old people. The first time he gets a whiff that somethings wrong, an old lady didn't have enough money and he just did what was convenient for her without trying to get anything else out of her.
I'm not sure if what he does next counts as solicitation, but he goes around and informs the old people of the shady stuff in their contracts, at which point Sandpiper starts shredding documents.
That's when he writes on the toilet paper and you can hear the enthusiasm in his voice at his issuing of his demand letter. "If you don't stop shredding, that's spoliation. Call your guys and tell them that I sent that! Me! Jimmy McGill Esquire!"
He then did the whole dumpster thing. Again, that's certainly unconventional, but that is perfectly legal, something even Chuck admits. And once they get that in order, they go RICO and from there, it's too big for Jimmy to handle alone. And that's when we get the HHM episode.
So, even in the straightest of circumstances, Jimmy is an....unconventional lawyer, but that's what he might have looked like living up to Chuck's ideals.
Edit: I should note that it's interesting watching Chuck in these episodes. You can see his constant doubt of Jimmy, but also a brotherly affection. When Jimmy comes in with the shredded documents, he is confused, but immediately accepts that he needed to work there. He gets him a cup of coffee, only to find him having fallen asleep. He puts a pillow under his head, then helps him with the documents. I'm sure some people see this as Chuck just playing the long game of wanting to screw Jimmy over out of a class action lawsuit because he can see the future and knows Jimmy will both put together the documents himself and that they will be valid evidence, but barring that interpretation, it's stuff like this that I feel gives credence to Chuck's belief in what he says and that he is legitimately passionate about being a lawyer for it's own sake. Earlier in the episode, Jimmy Tom-Sawyered him into completing his client's wills just because Chuck can't leave legal work unattended.
The first and most notable thing is that he genuinely seems to not want to take advantage of old people. The first time he gets a whiff that somethings wrong, an old lady didn't have enough money and he just did what was convenient for her without trying to get anything else out of her.
I'm not sure if what he does next counts as solicitation, but he goes around and informs the old people of the shady stuff in their contracts, at which point Sandpiper starts shredding documents.
That's when he writes on the toilet paper and you can hear the enthusiasm in his voice at his issuing of his demand letter. "If you don't stop shredding, that's spoliation. Call your guys and tell them that I sent that! Me! Jimmy McGill Esquire!"
He then did the whole dumpster thing. Again, that's certainly unconventional, but that is perfectly legal, something even Chuck admits. And once they get that in order, they go RICO and from there, it's too big for Jimmy to handle alone. And that's when we get the HHM episode.
So, even in the straightest of circumstances, Jimmy is an....unconventional lawyer, but that's what he might have looked like living up to Chuck's ideals.
Edit: I should note that it's interesting watching Chuck in these episodes. You can see his constant doubt of Jimmy, but also a brotherly affection. When Jimmy comes in with the shredded documents, he is confused, but immediately accepts that he needed to work there. He gets him a cup of coffee, only to find him having fallen asleep. He puts a pillow under his head, then helps him with the documents. I'm sure some people see this as Chuck just playing the long game of wanting to screw Jimmy over out of a class action lawsuit because he can see the future and knows Jimmy will both put together the documents himself and that they will be valid evidence, but barring that interpretation, it's stuff like this that I feel gives credence to Chuck's belief in what he says and that he is legitimately passionate about being a lawyer for it's own sake. Earlier in the episode, Jimmy Tom-Sawyered him into completing his client's wills just because Chuck can't leave legal work unattended.
minor effort
Banned
I basically agree with you, I was just sort of entertaining the idea that Chuck nudged Jimmy into a life of crime while momentarily putting aside the fact that he had a sketchy history before he even set foot in HHM's mailroom. His attempts to "be legit" were first there to earn his brother's admiration, and as it was clear Chuck's respect isn't coming it's rescued by his desire to have Kim think highly of him.
But although Jimmy had this preexisting desire to be a not-entirely-on-the-level lawyer, it's probably fair to say his ugly battles with his brother exacerbates the negative aspects of his practice as Saul Goodman. I mean he's a basically just a scoundrel before reinventing himself as Saul, where afterwards he's aiding drug kingpins and casually recommending murder. Something in him is was broken by these events.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Browsing through Breaking Bad episodes on Netflix and rewatched Half Measure. Gus ain't all that great a business man for as meticulous as he is. It's easy to forget and start sympathizing with him in BCS, but the guy made Jesse shake hands with two smug junkie drug dealers who use children to sell drugs and kill competition. All to keep the peace. They didn't get any punishment and simply got told, "No more children." And there's also the question of if Gus really ordered the death of the child too. Personally I don't think Mike would sit too well letting those dealers go unpunished either. There's still a ways to go to transform Mike and Gus into who they are in BB as well, not just Jimmy.
I think that's a really, really, really good example, and those episodes were amazing character building episodes. No, I don't think Chuck was playing a long game of trying to con Jimmy out of anything. I think you're right that this was the peak of Jimmy being a "good lawyer" without breaking the law, and that Chuck saw that and recognized it, hence wanting to help him as well.
But I would also point out that this isn't a great example that Jimmy actually aspires to be a legit lawyer, because here he is using the law as a means to an end. Him being a lawyer and knowing the legal system is opportunity, but what he was really getting out of this was that he really wanted to help these old people who were being cheated by crooks pretending to help them. Jimmy is a crusader. He definitely has some moral standards and things he wants to stand up for, but I don't think he really cares if he does it by the book or not, it was just that at that moment doing it by the book was more convenient for him since he knew he could win using the law.
He hardly keeps his real name a secret. It's one of the first things he says to Walt after they meet.
I was just rewatching the train heist episode after seeing this great youtube video of how much work went into it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndhM1AzScVM
In it, Mike seems pretty at ease with the idea of killing the crew on the train. He says matter of factly "You know what this means, right? We're gonna have to off the crew." and "Bottom line, I've done this long enough to know that there are two kinds of heists. Those where the guys get away with it and those that leave witnesses." It sounds like if Walt and Jesse hadn't objected, he would have went along with it.
Right now in BCS, Mike is extremely bothered that a innocent man was killed by Hector.
So much has to happen in BCS between now and BB time. With Jimmy, Mike, Francesca, and Gus. They're all dramatically different. It feels like this should be a 10 Season show at this pace. The pace would have to pick up x 100 if this was going to be a 5 season show to get those characters to transform in 2 years.
Yeah it's a bit of an issue if you consider both shows to be entirely within the same continuity. They've made Mike and Jimmy much more moral and sympathetic than they were in the show - although as it went on, Mike and Saul were getting more and more moral and sympathetic (especially Mike). So it's a weird progression where in BCS, they're basically good guys who do dirty work, and then at their first appearances in BB, they are basically bad guys, before evolving closer to being good guys who do dirty work.
It could have been avoided if they had set things up differently - it feels like this is the first time Mike has ever done any criminal work, and that he was just a cop his whole life. In BB Mike only says 'i was a beat cop a long time ago', and although he could've continued being a cop until recently, they make it seem like he has been working as a hitman/fixer for decades, when he clearly hasn't in BCS. Saul as well is so comfortable with the criminal stuff that it seems like he must have been doing it for a very long time - although this isn't as big of a jump as it is for Mike, because Saul isn't a killer himself and in BCS Jimmy is made out to always have been fairly shady and his recent attempts at being a lawyer are unusual for him.
It's just the nature of having to write a show around two protagonists who do criminal work. I think they've possibly made a little bit of a mess of this one aspect, since at the moment there is a lot of dissonance between BCS and BB for the characters involved (although Gus seems about the same), but I like BCS so much I can overlook it and just think of it as its own thing more or less.
It's established early on that he was a dirty cop, and that he murdered other cops and skipped town.
Kadin
Member
One of the small issues of having already watched BB is that we know Jimmy can't possibly get disbarred. I mean, can you become an attorney after being disbarred? I assume once that happens, it's for life. Most of the show keeps me guessing but small things like this I do notice which can help guess what will and won't happen in the show.
With that said, BCS is still easily 10/10 for me.
With that said, BCS is still easily 10/10 for me.
the_firewithin
Member
Chuck got played like a fiddle. loved it
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Walt had his issues manifest themselves from time to time though (insecurity about his status as a high school teacher/not feeling respected enough, getting jealous about how rich people are, feeling like he sold out too early with regards to his share at Grey Matter, etc). All it took was for him to realize that he had nothing left to lose to truly become Heisenberg, or at the very least, take steps towards becoming Heisenberg (Just me, but I'd argue he fully became Heisenberg when he outfoxed Gus and realized he was the true #1). Jimmy doesn't really have the same kind of development. His was scamming his own family as a kid after trying to out the con man to his dad (which I would argue started this mentality that "hey if he can do it and get away with it, so can I"). Though I agree that Chuck despite doing the right thing, is only enabling Jimmy's negative tendencies instead of praising the positive aspects.
Finally got around to getting my mom to watch BCS since she really loved BB.
Anyway, been watching bits and pieces here, the early episodes aren't bad but it's clear they didn't really know where the show was going. I think they really cemented what BCS was once it was revealed Chuck wasn't what he appeared to be. '
Also, it was a bit weird to have Tuco there in the first episode, cus it made it seem like BB regulars would be showing up all the time as cameos and it also seemed like those redheaded twins were gonna be regulars. Really love how the show has turned out, and while I still think BB is better, the show has definitely shown that it can stand alongside BB as it's equal.
Anyway, been watching bits and pieces here, the early episodes aren't bad but it's clear they didn't really know where the show was going. I think they really cemented what BCS was once it was revealed Chuck wasn't what he appeared to be. '
Also, it was a bit weird to have Tuco there in the first episode, cus it made it seem like BB regulars would be showing up all the time as cameos and it also seemed like those redheaded twins were gonna be regulars. Really love how the show has turned out, and while I still think BB is better, the show has definitely shown that it can stand alongside BB as it's equal.
He could be suspended for a year.
Kadin
Member
I had a hard time getting into the first season for some of the same reasons you mentioned. I ended up stopping around episode 6 or 7 and didn't decide to get back into it until shortly after season 2 started. I knew it had the potential to be great but really wasn't feeling it. Luckily a friend advised me to give it a go again and I got some renewed faith and never looked back. It clearly ranks right at the top with BB now for me.
I mean, he is using an alias and he is extremely shifty and scummy in BB. I would not put it past him to have somehow finagled his way into his position even if he wasn't supposed to be practicing.
That seems pretty unlikely considering he actually offers legal advice and representation in BB, in the same city.
stenbumling
Unconfirmed Member
Looking forward to some very much anticipated Nacho action. I can swear the synopsis for every upcoming episode this season was up on AMC website, and
but it seems to be gone now. Maybe I dreamt it.
I believe they all mentioned Nacho – albeit in the usually vague way –
Nacho's not my favorite character, but I'm down.
He just seems like someone I wouldn't trust even a little bit. He has this ever-present "I'm going to fuck you over" look in his eyes.