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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC

T

TheUnsunghero26

Member
newtypepilot said:
There's a scene afterwards showing Mike surveilling outside her place overnight to verify her claims. The "gunshots" were just the paperboy delivering newspaper.

It's not outright stated, but it's implied that Stacey is unknowingly suffering from PTSD due to her husband's death, causing her paranoia. Mike, being a war vet, probably realizes this after hearing her claim that the stucco on the wall was hit by bullets.

Personally, I don't think she was trying to con him for money. However, even if she were, Mike will probably feign ignorance anyways because the bottom line is Kaylee's well-being.
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Yeah, this what I (and others I was watching the show with) thought as well. I don't think she's manipulating him.
 
L

lamaroo

Unconfirmed Member
duckroll said:
No, Walt wanted to go on a stake out because he saw the news report on his birthday and got curious about it. Once again, people try to pin things on other characters but the ultimate responsibility goes back to Walt!!!!!!
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Isn't it established that Hank had asked him to come on a stake out previously?
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
Anyone notice how shot Bob Odenkirk's voice has been sounding this season? At first I thought it was a deliberate acting choice to reflect the character's exhaustion, but I think his voice just has gotten ragged. He's been practically croaking out all his lines.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Einchy said:
Can't it be both?

Been awhile since I seen season 2, so I might be misremembering, but I remember her coming off super sketchy in the scene where they find her new house cus it was obvious Mike couldn't pay for it with his tollbooth job.

Started to feel like she was taking advantage of him.
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Yeah the gunshot scene felt a little sketchy. The way it went down it did feel to me like it was a bit of a scam to convince Mike to move them to a better place. Mike did a stakeout, then the next morning she insists that she heard gunshots, points at a supposed bullet mark on the house, etc. It just felt like too much.

Not necessarily malicious on her part and probably a little bit of both (like most things in this show): she does believe that she heard gunshots, but she also knows that if she keeps pushing it with Mike he'll concede.

In the podcast for that episode (S02E03, around 54:45) they said that it's not a closed question (at the time). Some felt like she was running some kind of con and that she was trying to low key manipulate him in the first season too when it came to needing money, because she knows he can be swayed. But that regardless of she truly believing it or just playing him, it all comes from the same place of her being damaged goods from what she went through, just like Mike. It was purposely ambiguous.
 
?

____

Member
SpaceWolf said:
Anyone notice how shot Bob Odenkirk's voice has been sounding this season? At first I thought it was a deliberate acting choice to reflect the character's exhaustion, but I think his voice just has gotten ragged. He's been practically croaking out all his lines.
Click to expand...

When you hear him in the first episode of BB he's in (aptly titled Better Call Saul), he sounds extremely raspy and ragged.
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Member
They did a great job of younging Odenkirk up. His performance + hair makeup + weight loss is really astounding. Just look at the way he looked in Fargo season 1. Different people.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
Sapiens said:
They did a great job of younging Odenkirk up. His performance + hair makeup + weight loss is really astounding. Just look at the way he looked in Fargo season 1. Different people.
Click to expand...

This strikes me as humorous, considering that when watching this show with my parents, literally all my mother has done this season has been to complain incessantly about the "absolutely appalling" make-up job they've done on Odenkirk.

Personally, I think the make-up work they've done on him is pretty poor, especially when you watch this show in HD.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- AMC Q&A with Producer/Writer Ann Cherkis
Q: Even without the commercial, we sense a change in Jimmy during his interaction with Rebecca about Chuck. Has this experience with Chuck hardened Jimmy?

A: Absolutely. I think a door in his heart has closed. Bob pulled it off so well because you could really see and hear in his voice how he’s gone cold and disowned his brother. Of course, it’s Jimmy, so even though he feels this way, I think he’s always going to have these lingering thoughts about feeling this way, but I think this is a crucial step in him becoming Saul Goodman. Something inside him has broken and this is one of the things that begins that [transformation], but I don’t believe it’s the only thing.

Q: Chuck is also committed to making some drastic changes. How much did Jimmy’s stunt (or the embarrassment of it) open Chuck’s eyes?

A: After the end of Episode 5, Chuck has his so-called “breakdown,” and I do think he was profoundly shaken by that moment in the court room. It’s the very first time he’s even considering the idea that his illness might be a mental condition and not a physical one. We see him slumped down on the floor, and he really is terribly broken. I don’t think we’ve ever seen him in that state of mind. He starts to play around with holding the battery and almost tests himself to try to understand how it could be in his head. That is what ultimately propels him to take that journey out of his house and make that phone call. I love that sequence so much. He’s calling for help, and it’s a heroic moment for him. He’s so full of pride that the idea that he could actually admit he was wrong and needs help is a huge moment. I feel very grateful that I got to write that moment and see it happen. It’s a big turning point.

Q: Did this plot bring up new discussions in the room about just how real Chuck’s disease is?

A: Absolutely. We knew we were going to have Chuck explore the fact that this may be mental. Once we made that decision, we took it from there and tried to find a way to portray it in a realistic way for someone like Chuck. It’s very interesting because he’s got a tremendous work ethic, and he’s very precise, and you’ll see those qualities come into the way he’s handling this journey to get better.
Click to expand...

- AMC Q&A with Mark Margolis (Hector Salamanca)
Q: In Episode 4, Hector is far from amused by Don Eladio’s jokes. Do you think Hector’s ego is a liability?

A: It may be a liability, but a big piece of this bitterness, jealousy and anger is coming out of the fact that Gus Fring is the last person in the world that I want to be held up against. I don’t like him at all.

Q: Is Hector’s ego the root of his jealousy/rivalry with Gus? Is there some other reason for the tension between the men?

A: On the simplest level, it’s because the head guy now has a favorite. It’s like a teacher who has a favorite student, and I’ve fallen by the wayside. This is the one guy in the world that I really don’t like, and he doesn’t like me. What is between them is my killing of his buddy [Max on Breaking Bad]. …I think that’s why he hates me as opposed to anybody else. When we had the meeting before I killed his friend, there was nothing coming at me that was animosity. … There was nothing particularly heavy going on between me and him. Just walking up and shooting this guy in the head was incredibly traumatic for him. On some level, it was like coming up and shooting someone’s mother or father in front of them. That hate carries on forever. I know that and don’t give a sh– about it, but I’ve got this enemy who’s trying to one-up me.

Q: When Gus agrees to be Hector’s mule, does Hector think he’s won in that moment?

A: I think. I don’t know that I’ve gotten what I wanted, but on some level, I have. Mostly, I go out of there thinking I put this guy in his place. I told him who I am and my position and his position and told him that I’m the cartel, and he’s going to work for me and I don’t give a shit if you go to Bolsa or Don Eladio. I’m the oldest guy there. … At the end, it seemed to be exactly what Gus wanted me to do. He threw a ball of tin foil in a can like a basketball and had a great smile on his face like he pulled it off. I think Gus thinks he’s done something to get me worked up. I don’t know that he’s smiling because he thinks he’s the key man. On the other hand, I don’t see why he would want me to come there because it almost blows his cover as the wholesome, helpful businessman in the community.
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More via the links.
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Member
SpaceWolf said:
This strikes me as humorous, considering that when watching this show with my parents, literally all my mother has done this season has been to complain incessantly about the "absolutely appalling" make-up job they've done on Odenkirk.

Personally, I think the make-up work they've done on him is pretty poor, especially when you watch this show in HD.
Click to expand...

I mean, you have to suspend your disbelief a little. It's obviously makeup - but it allows me to believe he is younger. It works. It's not distracting to me.
 
I

iirate

Member
duckroll said:
Somewhat uncomfortable that the first reading some people have of a grieving widow struggling to bring a young daughter alone is that she's some manipulative woman taking advantage of someone's kindness. She genuinely respects Mike a lot and feels she can count on him. She doesn't seem to have any other family she can count on, and she knows deep down that her husband was killed because of corruption in the police force. It's a shit situation.
Click to expand...

My reading absolutely was extremely cold, and I feel that I've missed the mark a bit after reading this. I like what you've said better.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
SpaceWolf said:
This strikes me as humorous, considering that when watching this show with my parents, literally all my mother has done this season has been to complain incessantly about the "absolutely appalling" make-up job they've done on Odenkirk.

Personally, I think the make-up work they've done on him is pretty poor, especially when you watch this show in HD.
Click to expand...

What make-up work? If Bob uses makeup, Jonathan Banks needs some of that. You can tell he's older than he was in BB. Unlike Bob.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
Lothar said:
What make-up work? If Bob uses makeup, Jonathan Banks needs some of that. You can tell he's older than he was in BB. Unlike Bob.
Click to expand...

I think I remember hearing somewhere that Jonathan Banks refused to wear make-up for this series because in the tests, it was having an adverse effect on his skin.
 
V

Vagabundo

Member
iirate said:
My reading absolutely was extremely cold, and I feel that I've missed the mark a bit after reading this. I like what you've said better.
Click to expand...

I'm not getting that at all. They're a little awkward around each other. I just see a struggling single mother grateful to have some help and a doting grandfather happy to help.

It's sad watching it, knowing what happens to Mike in the end.
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Fuu said:
Yeah the gunshot scene felt a little sketchy. The way it went down it did feel to me like it was a bit of a scam to convince Mike to move them to a better place. Mike did a stakeout, then the next morning she insists that she heard gunshots, points at a supposed bullet mark on the house, etc. It just felt like too much.

Not necessarily malicious on her part and probably a little bit of both (like most things in this show): she does believe that she heard gunshots, but she also knows that if she keeps pushing it with Mike he'll concede.

In the podcast for that episode (S02E03, around 54:45) they said that it's not a closed question (at the time). Some felt like she was running some kind of con and that she was trying to low key manipulate him in the first season too when it came to needing money, because she knows he can be swayed. But that regardless of she truly believing it or just playing him, it all comes from the same place of her being damaged goods from what she went through, just like Mike. It was purposely ambiguous.
Click to expand...

Well, there we go.

That reminds me, I should listen to the podcasts.
 
V

Vagabundo

Member
duckroll said:
Yeah, but at the same time I think BCS is doing a damn good job of creating the "this can't end any other way" feeling. :/
Click to expand...

Yep, ditto with Kim and Jimmy - it can't end well - and you can see the seeds planted with Jimmy hardening toward Chunk, at some point he will do the same to Kim.

I wonder if anyone is watching this fresh, without having seen BB. It would be cool to watch it with them.
 
P

Pyroclastic

Banned
I can suspend my disbelief enough for saul on the whole. the only time it was dumb was in the flashback chicago scenes, where he looked like someone out of wayne's world.

mike looks ancient but there's so much you can do there, short of things that would be off putting for other reasons (cgi)

the best job they've done was with krazy 8, especially seeing as he filmed breaking bad 10 years ago. he looks almost cherubic
 
L

Lionheart1827

Member
Was just watching Gremlins the other night and noticed a familiar face:

c27ZIKb.jpg


Had to check IMDB but indeed its him.
 
I

iirate

Member
Lionheart1827 said:
Was just watching Gremlins the other night and noticed a familiar face:

c27ZIKb.jpg


Had to check IMDB but indeed its him.
Click to expand...

I was watching Gremlins 2 for the first time with a friend a few months ago and guess who I noticed pop up:

kZWfMpY.png


I was really proud of myself because we're both big BB/BCS fans and she always recognizes celebrities before I do(she pointed out Johnathan Banks when we watched Gremlins 1).
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
iirate said:
I was watching Gremlins 2 for the first time with a friend a few months ago and guess who I noticed pop up:

kZWfMpY.png


I was really proud of myself because we're both big BB/BCS fans and she always recognizes celebrities before I do(she pointed out Johnathan Banks when we watched Gremlins 1).
Click to expand...

Who is that?
 
O

Oxn

Member
iirate said:
My understanding is that she was lying, trying to manipulate his guilt from Matty's death and the love of his granddaughter. He knows, she knows he knows, but he keeps going along with it for the aforementioned reasons. I also feel like a part of her is doing this because she doesn't completely forgive him for his role in Matty's death.

A lot of this is up to interpretation, but I just did my third viewing of s1 and my second of s2 and this is where I'm at regarding their relationship.
Click to expand...

Einchy said:
This is what I remember, too.

I ask because my mom is currently watching season 2, and I saw the scene with the gunshots, which made me remember this week's episode where she got him to build them a playground. Which normally wouldn't really be a big deal, but I remember her pulling the same shit in season 2. I just didn't remember if it was left ambiguous.
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I can safely say this is incorrect. She not lying but just her imagining the worst due to paranoia

How did you guys read her as a manipulative person?
 
E

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Oxn said:
I can safely say this is incorrect. She not lying but just her imagining the worst due to paranoia

How did you guys read her as a manipulative person?
Click to expand...
Same way some of the people working on the show did.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Fuu said:
In the podcast for that episode (S02E03, around 54:45) they said that it's not a closed question (at the time). Some felt like she was running some kind of con and that she was trying to low key manipulate him in the first season too when it came to needing money, because she knows he can be swayed. But that regardless of she truly believing it or just playing him, it all comes from the same place of her being damaged goods from what she went through, just like Mike. It was purposely ambiguous.
Click to expand...
As you note, there's a fair amount of disagreement and nuance to their discussion of the scene on the podcast, so distilling it down to "she manipulated him" or "she didn't manipulate him" is an oversimplification.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
Lionheart1827 said:
Was just watching Gremlins the other night and noticed a familiar face:

c27ZIKb.jpg


Had to check IMDB but indeed its him.
Click to expand...

oh wow, didn't catch this

iirate said:
I was watching Gremlins 2 for the first time with a friend a few months ago and guess who I noticed pop up:

kZWfMpY.png


I was really proud of myself because we're both big BB/BCS fans and she always recognizes celebrities before I do(she pointed out Johnathan Banks when we watched Gremlins 1).
Click to expand...

I did recognize this one though
 
M

MegaManTrigger

Banned
The "Mike is getting conned by Stacey" theory sounds like a bunch of malarkey. Even if they weren't gunshots, it's easy to see how uneasy Stacey would be given that Matt was specifically targeted, and Mike essentially admitted to killing the dirty cops to Stacey. You wouldn't think that Stacey is concerned about the precinct coming after her, Kaylee and Mike as vengeance? It has less to do with being taken advantage of, and more to do with Mike's guilt and wanting Matt's surviving family to be taken care of.

Also considering that we see Mike and Kaylee remaining close in BB, it makes it even harder to buy that.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Cornballer said:
As you note, there's a fair amount of disagreement and nuance to their discussion of the scene on the podcast, so distilling it down to "she manipulated him" or "she didn't manipulate him" is an oversimplification.
Click to expand...
Yep. It's not unlike a lot of Jimmy's and Chuck's actions, they're compelled by different aspects that sometimes even the character isn't fully aware of. I like it when there aren't easy answers.
 
R

riotous

Banned
I love how nuanced her small role is; there's passive aggressive manipulation going on but I think everyone involved knows Mike deserves it. I think it's more an instinctual reaction to her situation of being a single mother than some overt con.
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
riotous said:
I love how nuanced her small role is; there's passive aggressive manipulation going on but I think everyone involved knows Mike deserves it. I think it's more an instinctual reaction to her situation of being a single mother than some overt con.
Click to expand...

Right. She's not malicious or conning him, but she might be taking advantage of Mike's generosity since she sees he's always so happy to help her. There's nothing really wrong with that, because Mike is clearly happy to do these things for her and her daughter.
 
I

iirate

Member
riotous said:
I love how nuanced her small role is; there's passive aggressive manipulation going on but I think everyone involved knows Mike deserves it. I think it's more an instinctual reaction to her situation of being a single mother than some overt con.
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
Teletraan1

Teletraan1

Banned
I like the BB callbacks. They don't drive the show, they just exist because it is set in the same place and pretty much all have been related to the overall plot. I just don't understand people's expectations of a prequel series. To complain about it while it has been handled with the utmost of respect for the viewers time and intelligence is for lack of a better word fucked.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
lamaroo said:
That perfect battery roll
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They used sticky tape on the table so the battery stopped where they wanted, but on their best take it wobbled back a little and made it obvious that something stopped it there. They asked the effects team to fix it and it turned out perfect in the episode.

They were happy with it because that kind of VFX work wouldn't have looked right for a big part of Breaking Bad and they would have to live with it, but nowadays they can count with small fixes like that because the digital tools are so much better.
 
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