Fake
Member
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Between bunnies and ladies, Sony chooses the bunnies
- Thread starter TintoConCasera
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ethomaz
Banned
So why you ignore games like Rayman launched in 1995?Now you're the one lying. Look at SCEA's published games IN THE US from 1995 and 1996 (the Stolar years).
List of Sony Interactive Entertainment video games - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
The only thing that can be considered true 2D was Mortal Kombat Trilogy, but at the time there was no way SCEA would ban that because it would be suicide for the new console. Philosoma had some 2D stuff, but it was considered a 2D/3D FMV shooter; not something that could be done on 16 bit. During that time they wouldn't localize stuff like Arc the Lad because it was both 2D and a RPG.
The EGM article I posted above from 1997 is 100% true. Stop screaming that people are lying because you didn't experience this time in gaming history.
You try to say there is a block but 2D games keep being released in US.
After you cite a JRPG case (Arc the Land) that never received a west release like several others JRPG in that period… companies didn't bother to localize JRPGs in 199x.
Even on SNES JRPGs we're not localized to west including big names like FF and DQ.
You were luck when you got a JRPG localized to English in that period… that is why I played most JRPGs in Japanese.
FFVII was a mark point… after it success in west companies start to look better with localization of JRPGs including remaster localized of games never launched in west… FFV for example was fist time localized to US in 1999 for PS1.
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yurinka
Member
List of 2D games published or co-published by Sony for PSX during 1995 and 1996:Now you're the one lying. Look at SCEA's published games IN THE US from 1995 and 1996 (the Stolar years).
List of Sony Interactive Entertainment video games - Wikipedia
The only thing that can be considered true 2D was Mortal Kombat Trilogy, but at the time there was no way SCEA would ban that because it would be suicide for the new console. Philosoma had some 2D stuff, but it was considered a 2D/3D FMV shooter; not something that could be done on 16 bit. During that time they wouldn't localize stuff like Arc the Lad because it was both 2D and a RPG.
The EGM article I posted above from 1997 is 100% true. Stop screaming that people are lying because you didn't experience this time in gaming history.
-Arc The Lad
-Discworld
-Hermie Hopperhead
-Mortal Kombat 3
-Rapid Reload
-The Raiden Project
-Victory Zone
-Arc the Lad II
-Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars
-Mickey's Wild Adventure
-Myst
-Namco Museum Vol. 1
-Namco Museum Vol. 2
-Namco Tennis Smash Court (only tennis players may be 3D but since it's a static camera pretty likely are 2D pre-rendered sprites)
-Popolocrois Story
-Samurai Shodown III: Blades of Blood
-The Adventures of Lomax
-The King of Fighters '95
-Victory Zone 2
Back then, as also happened with 3D games, and as also happened in Saturn, SNES or N64 and the portables, many games weren't released in all regions. Some were released only in Japan, only in USA or only in the PAL region. Some other ones were released in 2 of these regions. Other ones were co-published with a 3rd party, sometimes Sony publishing in certain regions and the other one publishing in another regions.
So this means Sony didn't publish some of these 2D games in USA, in the same way they didn't publish other 3D games in USA. And same happened in the other regions of the world, as also happened with Sega or Nintendo or many 3rd party publishers. Many Japanese games weren't published in the west because they considered that the localization costs were too high for games with a lot of text like some JRPGs or conversational games, or that due to cultural issues it was going to be too weird for the westerners, who wouldn't buy it as happened with pachinko games and other Japanese specific stuff.
So no, you're the one lying. Sony published a lot of 2D games, in NA too, and during 1995 and 1996 too. And there were many hundredss, possibly thousands, of 3rd party PSX games published around the world including NA. And many of them during 1995 and 1996. Sony never banned 2D games.
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Wasn't published by SCEA and it was a launch title when they wanted as many titles as possible. But why are you ignoring the actual documentation from 1997 from gaming magazines that confirm it was a policy for the first two years of the console's life in the US. Explain why you're disingenuously ignoring that evidence. And don't just reply with the LOL reaction. Explain why you refuse to acknowledge reality.
I said in the US by SCEA. You're omitting that fact. Those were Japanese and PAL games except for like 2. You went to a Wikipeida page, took JPN and PAL games and are trying to pass them off as US releases. This is a new level of disingenuous console warring.
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yurinka
Member
It isn't console warring, I'm just proving you are wrong or lying by showing facts.
All these games published (in a few cases co-published) in the USA by Sony obviously were published by SCEA (or by Psygnosis, also owned by Sony). In fact, that wikipedia list I posted isn't 100% correct because it has some mistakes. The first Arc the Lad was published by SCEA in USA, but a bit later than the original Japanese launch.
2D games published/copublished by SCEA or Psygnosis in the USA during 1995 and 1996:
-Arc The Lad (a bit later than usual)
-Arc The Lad II (originally localized and published in USA by Working Designs under license of Sony, later published by SCEA in PSN)
-Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars (Psygnosis)
-Discworld (Psygnosis)
-Mortal Kombat 3
-Myst (Psygnosis)
-Raiden Project
-Samurai Shodown III
-The Adventures of Lomax (Psygnosis)
-The King of Fighters '95
And these are only 1995 and 1996, Sony published many more 2D games for PSX (in USA too) after these years, but I don't want to waste more time with you. You can check out the wikipedia page of the list, of their games, and double check if there's some mistake with other sources like the moby games pages of each games or their cover or disc art scans.
He mentions Rayman as one of the many hundreds of 2D games published on PSX in NA (and well, worldwidde) during the early PSX days, proving you were wrong when saying SCEA didn't allow to publish 3rd party 2D games during the early years of PSX (you originally mentioned some Capcom games, that one is from Ubisoft).
I provided facts to show that in addition to allow 2D games for the 3rd parties during the early years, Sony was also publishing 2D games themselves in NA, as they were doing in the rest of the world.
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Again, you didn't start to see JRPGs on the PS1 in the US until 1997 when SCEA brought over Wild Arms, which again was AFTER Stolar left.
Again look at the EGM from 1997. It was well known that the first two years of the PSX in the US, when Bernie Stolar's 'Five Star' policy was in effect, they would outright deny 2D and RPGs on the system because Stolar wanted to focus on 3D and sports games. Once he was gone at the end of 1996 it became better which is why in 1997 you saw Wild Arms and FFVII come over as well as a swarm of 2D games including all of the Capcom ones they originally denied like MM8, MMX4, SFA, etc.
This is a fact. History doesn't not exist just because you didn't personally witness it.
Look at the Wikipedia page of Mega Man 8:
Mega Man 8 - Wikipedia
Arc the Lad 1 was never published by SCEA in the US. How old are you?
Arc the Lad - Wikipedia
Arc the Lad didn't come to the US until the Working Designs collection in 2002. A year AFTER the PS2 released in the US.
yurinka
Member
Yes, as I said Arc the Lad was released later than usual for USA. I didn't mention the whole story but yes, it was included for that release in the Arc The Lad collection, adding DualShock support, better quality for the videos and a few name changes etc.Arc the Lad 1 was never published by SCEA in the US. How old are you?
Arc the Lad - Wikipedia
Arc the Lad didn't come to the US until the Working Designs collection in 2002. A year AFTER the PS2 released in the US.
In Arc The Lad II included the localization and publishing in USA of Working Designs under license of Sony, later published by SCEA in PSN.
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Later than usual? Can you be more disingenuous??
The first Arc the Lad was a year 1 PSX release. Read the Wikipedia page. Due to the SCEA leadership at the time (Bernie Stolar) SCEA refused to localize it and rejected Working Designs from bringing it to the US. It didn't come to the US until SEVEN YEARS after release and the year AFTER the PlayStation 2 was launched.
There are mountains of evidence proving SCEA's early PSX policies that you're ignoring.
Vaelka
Member
I dunno about this game so I am not going to speak about it.
But lets just say that you're 100% right.
So what?
Why shouldn't they be allowed to make the game that they want and sell it so long as it gets an appropriate rating by the ESRB?
You realize that the same way you feel about this is essentially how a lot of people feel about content you like?
There are very large markets that are becoming more and more important where violence is still controversial in games and where things like politics and sex altogether gets censored.
Standing up for creators right to create what they want is important.
Edit: I like this comment on the Youtuber trailer because it's so true.
''
I love how this is such an open mockery of Sony Interactive Entertainment's platform policy regarding content. They should have included scenes of torture & gory evisceration of all the bunnies, with screams of agony and blood splurting everywhere as they die. That would have been fine with SIE too. ''
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Captain Toad
Banned
Sony didn't tell anyone, "turn all the female humans in this game into rabbits". Good grief. Are people seriously that gullible?
And stop acting like there is a passionate fanbase for every shovelware game on the eShop.
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No the developer did it and they did it because they were aware of the current policy regarding sexualization of women that Sony has in place following MeToo that's been well documented for the last three years. The dev made the change to avoid having to submit a game, have it rejected, and then have to go through the submission process again. This way they only have to submit the game once.
Captain Toad
Banned
Sony's first-party games have nudity and explicit sex scenes. You are grasping at straws.
This is a no-name shovelware game that is only getting any attention because they're doing this. There's tons of crap these shovelware games do to get ANY attention and sell their "games" they threw together over their lunch break.
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Yes, and it's been pointed out how TLOU2 allowing that is hypocritical based on how they treat third party content.
yurinka
Member
I'm not ignoring anything.
They didn't want to localize/release that particular game during its original release, pretty likely because -as we mentioned- the lower tier JRPGs from basically all publishers in all platforms during the mid '90s outside FFVII and a few other big ones more they had weak sales in the west, so to localize/release them and so on was too expensive and wasn't worth it. This happened for many JRPGs from basically all publishers and in SNES, Saturn or N64. It wasn't a particular thing from Sony.
The evidence also shows that Sony and the 3rd parties published many 2D games for PSX, in USA too, and during the years you say they were not allowing 2D games. Which proves that the ban you mention didn't exist, period.
Many PS4 games, including some published by Sony, feature women nudity and sex scenes. Which proves Sony doesn't ban women nudity or sexual content.
The publishers only need to choose for their games the proper age rating with the independent agencies that run them (not Sony) or government approval for each region. Sometimes the publishers make some self censorship to get a lower age rating so to reach a wider audience.
Platform holders (in this case Sony) simply verify that the content of the game is the one covered by the age rating the publisher got with the related agency for each country/region. Platform holders don't ask publishers to replace nudity for furries. The publisher is the one who decided it.
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Captain Toad
Banned
Again, Sony didn't censor anything with this game. The developer did this all by themselves. Most likely, just because of the attention it would get in a game literally no one would gave otherwise paid attention to.
I'm fucking done arguing with disingenuous console warriors who refuse to acknowledge mountains historical evidence of a policy that ceased to exist 25 years ago just to defend a fucking plastic box.
Captain Toad
Banned
As opposed to guys who make shit up and draw unreasonable conclusions to start an outrage campaign against said plastic box.
I'm not making up shit. Fuck off with that. I posted evidence including an actual page from EGM in 1997 that talks about it. But you accuse me of making up shit just to console war?
Captain Toad
Banned
Show me where Sony censored this game. Please tell me when Sony told the developers to put rabbits in their shovelware game.
The only blame Sony (and Nintendo) have here is letting this trash on the stores at all.
The only reason you're here is to console war and throw the fanboy card around when others aren't equally outraged over this complete nothing story.
And, lol, 1997 EGM... Good grief.
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I literally never said Sony did. I've made two posts in this thread saying it was the DEVELOPER who did it. Stop coming into a thread and throwing around accusations and putting words in someone's mouth.
I'm not console warring. I posted how Sony has had approval policies like this for 25 years starting with the 2D rules in 1995/1996. Warriors like you came in and got offended, called me a liar, so I posted tons of evidence and then you come in here and accuse me of making shit up.
Yea, I falsified multiple Wikipedia pages with CITED links and photoshopped a fake EGM article from 1997 just to console war. /s
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Captain Toad
Banned
Which you followed with "because Sony, so please be outraged".
Vaelka
Member
Yes, and Cyberpunk got to be uncensored in regions that normally would censor games for even showing cleavage or so much as mentioning drugs.
Because there's a lot more money behind it.
It was a big thing in Australia whether Cyberpunk was going to get to be uncensored or not, it didn't end up being censored but other games get censored into oblivion for even just mentions of things and very mild nudity or even hints of body parts.
No shit Sony lets its first party games and big titles get away with more.
Edit: The crazy thing is that the games that made CD Projekt Red popular would never have been made or would at least have been very harshly censored if a lot of these same standards were applied.
This is essentially fucking over studios that may be small today but could be the next big thing.
Which is why an equal playing field when it comes to this and consistent rules are important, and platform holders like Sony should seriously fuck off with policing content.
Like you can have people get their faces sliced in half while a monster picks out their brain and eats it ( MK11 ) but omfg a womans nipples how horrible?
Even just that hypocrisy alone is infuriating.
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Dick Jones
Banned
I thought the Cyberpunk thing in Australia was the censors finally being told to treat the public like adults for once that could understand the difference between digital drugs and real life. Has Australia returned to over censorship again?
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Hardensoul
Member
It's a woman! Bigot!
and yes it's reaction to Trump winning!
TheGodfather07
Member
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Vaelka
Member
As far as I know nothing changed, they just let some games pass because they're big and make a lot of money.
Australia also makes money off of the sales ( taxes etc ) and there is a much bigger blowback when games like those get censored, imagine how much outrage there would've been.
Games like Hotline Miami, Saint's Row, The Witcher 2 ( as I sorta hinted on above ), Silent Hill etc were banned.
Many games were banned and were overturned but many also failed at overturning the ban.
For example Disco Elysium, We Happy Few and Outlast were banned initially but they managed to get it unbanned, keep in mind too that they need to fight for it and not everyone can afford to or have the will to do it.
Most of the bans are still intact and the games remain banned.
Apple and Google do something similar on their App stores and it's a complete Russian Roulette whether you'll get banned or be forced to censor things or slip past.
I've seen games get banned for literally a pixel of cleavage and Papers, Please was originally banned and only got unbanned after blowback.
But imagine that a game as acclaimed as Papers, Please releases and is banned or forced to be censored in a way that is more impactful on the original platform it launches on.
It might never catch on and be acclaimed, an otherwise incredible game can be completely fucked over and we might lose really amazing studios and developers because of these policies.
And it only makes it easier for these platforms to push for further censorship to align with more strict areas too, it's not just China and backwards countries like Australia it's also the Middle East and poorer regions of Asia becoming more relevant.
I for one don't want these regions to dictate media I consume.
yurinka
Member
The historical evidence is that a lot of 2D games were published in USA (and worldwide) for PSX, even some of them by Sony itself and during the years you say that policy existed. Which proves there wasn't any Sony policy to ban 2D games.
If something, some people at Sony -as happened with a big portion of the gaming media and hte players- back then prefered 3D games over 2D because back then were considered more trendy and modern. But that's all. Many 2D games were published for PSX since the first year and even many of them published by Sony itself, so Sony weren't blocking anything.
Back then it wasn't as common as it is now to see games released worldwide and widely localized, so it was common to see many games not released in certain regions or being published in a specific region by someone else or way later. And that happened with basically all publishers, in all regions, with both 2D and 3D games, in all platforms, it wasn't a PSX/SCEA 2D games specific thing.
Here's something else that connects to this. An interview with Shu when he was running the studios back in 2018 about why DOAX was denied a US release:
It's all Schreier's fault!
PS4には“いい循環”が生まれている。PlayStation Experience 2015で行われたSCEワールドワイド・スタジオ プレジデント吉田修平氏へのインタビューを掲載
「PlayStation Experience 2015」の開催に合わせて，ソニー・コンピュータエンタテインメント ワールドワイド・スタジオのプレジデントである吉田修平氏へのインタビューが行われた。PlayStation VRの展開や，基調講演で日本製タイトルが多く紹介された背景などを語ってもらったので，じっくり読み進めてほしい。
www.4gamer.net
It's all Schreier's fault!
/s
Seriously though I love talking about that era in gaming history with the drama between Sega and Sony. It's just frustrating with people screaming that it's all lies when it happened.
nush
Member
You're right different territories had differing polices, the US absolutely was not allowing most 2D games to get published IN THE USA. Sure there's lots of them in Japan and more in Europe than the US but even publishers might not have released certain titles in Europe if they could not also release in the us.
I see a lot of the "gotcha" here's some 2D games on the PS1 are from the launch window when they had to have any title available to attract the widest audience. SCEA did become more relaxed about 2D games towards the end of the PS1 lifespan.
That no 2D games policy did exist at SCEA.
That whole era was epic with the fights Konami and Capcom put up. Konami famously held MGS hostage over Symphony of the Night and Capcom threatened to make RE2 a Saturn exclusive if SCEA didn't relent over their 1997 2D games.
I heard a rumor that they also starting pushing this policy somewhere during the PS2 era where 2D games were only allowed if they were in compilations. That's why the original Xbox in the U.S. got so many exclusive SNK 2D fighting games. SVC Chaos (among many others) was released on the PS2 overseas but in NA it was an Xbox exclusive.
Yea there were still remnants of it in the PS2 era and they also had some kind of wonky rule where the compilations couldn't combine PSX/PS2 games (which I guess Namco butted heads over with some of their light gun games).
It really went away with the PS2 completely, but then the "Mega Man 8 rule" became standard on the PS3 and PS4. Where if a multiplatform game released later on the PS it needed some kind of exclusive bonus. That's why Rise of the Tomb Raider on PS4 was in the special book packaging with the VR DLC, for example.
Dick Jones
Banned
Microsoft's ID@Xbox policy means this indie twin-stick shooter can't launch on Xbox One
Microsoft's ID@Xbox program means - theoretically - anyone can self-publish on Xbox One. But there are strings attached.
www.eurogamer.net
This tactic appeared to be a favourite of a few platforms
ethomaz
Banned
Or they did because they wanted to change the game rating from M to E.
They probably saw M didn't work well for them with Switch.
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Microsoft's ID@Xbox policy means this indie twin-stick shooter can't launch on Xbox One
Microsoft's ID@Xbox program means - theoretically - anyone can self-publish on Xbox One. But there are strings attached.
This tactic appeared to be a favourite of a few platforms
Everyone does it, even Nintendo.
Hell, people don't remember the Yamauchi era Nintendo. Publishers called him Hitler behind his back (and he hated third parties right back, there's an old rumor where he said at a board meeting: "We have two enemies: third parties and consumers").
Some people think publishing games is the wild west like PC and anyone who makes anything can put their game on a console. But that's absolutely not true. Sony, MS, and Nintendo are the gatekeepers and they all have specific approval requirements that have to be met.
It's funny how Nintendo went from the strictest in the universe in the 8, 16, and 64 bit eras, to just saying "fuck it" when it comes to indies on the eShop.
People get mad at Sony over what this OP is talking about, but if you look at it from their perspective as the industry leader and their attempt to both protect their brand and be appealing to the widest audience possible, it's almost understandable.
The Pleasure
Gold Member
Honey Bunny
Member
I hate that this industry is now dominated by fucking prudes. And they aren't just censoring at the behest of outsiders, they're doing it to themselves.
Nobody in America wanted to play these launch window PSX games, makes you wonder why they translated them to English.
#manabyteisright
I'm still mad we never got Parodius over here.
"A North American release was also announced by Konami, but cancelled for unknown reasons."
Parodius
segaretro.org
Who could possibly think what that reason could be?
Makes me rage that we could've had Parodius at launch and instead we got fucking Philosoma. Parodius is a classic.
nush
Member
It was 2 Parodius games. I scooped that bad boy up as soon as I saw it (For cheap).