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[dskillzhtown]

That... seems unreasonable. Was the restaurant recommended to close for the day? Other than that I don't really see what they could've done.

Read the background on this. The gangs were using the restaurant as a meeting place, they had been causing issues there already. From what I have read there had been fights and harassment of customers. The police offered to help, the restaurant declined. They should have done what they needed to do to keep the place safe, they didn't do it. This had been building for months. I am sure there is some expectation in the franchise agreement to keep the place safe for patrons.

 

[Croatoan]

My wife is from Waco, this news doesn't surprise me. Luckily we are safe down here in College Station where the only biker gang is a group of TAMU students who ride mopeds around.

 

[Hylian7]

Time to move this operation to the Waco Hooters

Which is actually right down I-35 from Twin Peaks. I kid you not it's less than a mile from it.

 

[Metaphoreus]

They just did... in the post you quoted.

Sorry, I meant quantifiable data that can be verified. "Gosh, I haven't seen it as much" doesn't count.

That... seems unreasonable. Was the restaurant recommended to close for the day? Other than that I don't really see what they could've done.

Seems completely reasonable to me. The franchisor's statement implied that this was an ongoing problem, and that the franchisee had ignored advice from the cops and the franchisor.

 

[soleil]

Sorry, I meant quantifiable data that can be verified. "Gosh, I haven't seen it as much" doesn't count.



Seems completely reasonable to me. The franchisor's statement implied that this was an ongoing problem, and that the franchisee had ignored advice from the cops and the franchisor.

About the word "thug" being thrown around after Richard Sherman ranted about Michael Crabtree:

http://blog.iqmediacorp.com/instant-media-intelligence-deadspin-iq-media-richard-sherman/

Deadspin pointed out that “thug” had been said more than 625 times on TV on the Monday after the game. This was more in one day than on any other day in three years. Pretty powerful data.

Within the 3 years prior to Sherman's rant, surely you can agree that people have done things more deserving of the title "thug." Justin Bieber was on the news already for punching a limo driver and vandalizing his own neighbor's house, causing $20k in damage. Yet it's Sherman's rant that generates the "thug" label.

 

[Hari Seldon]

About the word "thug" being thrown around after Richard Sherman ranted about Michael Crabtree:

http://blog.iqmediacorp.com/instant-media-intelligence-deadspin-iq-media-richard-sherman/


Within the 3 years prior to Sherman's rant, surely you can agree that people have done things more deserving of the title "thug." Justin Bieber was on the news already for punching a limo driver and vandalizing his own neighbor's house, causing $20k in damage. Yet it's Sherman's rant that generates the "thug" label.

How the fuck is this rant related to a gang shootout? Does anyone think that these people are not thugs? What the fuck are you going on about?

These people are thugs. Their friends are thugs. The gang is thugs. Their guns are thugs, their bullets are thugs. Their dogs are probably thugs. Their underpants are thugs. When they wake up int he morning they think thuggish thoughts. They eat thug cereal. They have little thugglet babbies.

Happy?

 

[soleil]

How the fuck is this rant related to a gang shootout? Does anyone think that these people are not thugs? What the fuck are you going on about?

These people are thugs. Their friends are thugs. The gang is thugs. Their guns are thugs, their bullets are thugs. Their dogs are probably thugs. Their underpants are thugs. When they wake up int he morning they think thuggish thoughts. They eat thug cereal. They have little thugglet babbies.

Happy?

No, because society at large is not using the term consistently.

 

[Switch Back 9]

This has been discussed to death in several other threads. Yes, there is a clear racial slant to the media's use of the word thug. This is not new, why are people still arguing about it?

Are these bikers thugs? Absolutely. Would the word be used a lot more if this were a black gang? Absolutely.

Let's move on and continue talking about the actual story, which is fucking crazy. I'm surprised at people thinking bikers were a product of another era. Up here in Canada we hear about them all the time. Outside of Toronto that's almost all you hear about when it comes to major organized crime.

 

[Chittagong]

Sons of Anarchy shoot out kills 15 people. Only local cops attend, only local news outlets report, 2 members are arrested for a few days and 1 fall guy does 2 years in jail

Real world biker gang shoot out kills 9 people. 194 members arrested, makes global news.

 

[soleil]

This has been discussed to death in several other threads. Yes, there is a clear racial slant to the media's use of the word thug. This is not new, why are people still arguing about it?

Are these bikers thugs? Absolutely. Would the word be used a lot more if this were a black gang? Absolutely.

Let's move on continue talking about the actual story, which is fucking crazy. I'm surprised at people thinking bikers were a product of another time. Up here in Canada we hear about them all the time. Outside of Toronto that's almost all you hear about when it comes to major organized crime.

The reason we're arguing over it is because of posts like these:

The point is, if we're going to compare two sets of data, we're going to need--at the very least--two sets of data. First you two need to establish that "thug" is being used less in this context in the places where you'd expect it to be used, and then we can start questioning why that is. Y'all are just skipping to step 2 without doing the work necessary to substantiate that a gap even exists.

Sorry, I meant quantifiable data that can be verified. "Gosh, I haven't seen it as much" doesn't count.

 

[Cagey]

No, because society at large is not using the term consistently.

It's curious that what angers you about a story where a massive gang shootout took place with nearly 200 gang members arrested because, in part, many gang members are flooding into the area undeterred by law enforcement as a show of support, which all evidences an enormous problem with this subset of organized crime in the southwest, that the word thug has predictably not been used at a rate you deem acceptable in media coverage.

 

[soleil]

It's curious that what angers you about a story where a massive gang shootout took place with nearly 200 gang members arrested because, in part, many gang members are flooding into the area undeterred by law enforcement as a show of support, which all evidences an enormous problem with this subset of organized crime in the southwest, that the word thug has predictabilty not been used at a rate you deem acceptable in media coverage.

It's curious that you assume I post based on anger.

 

[Hylian7]

It's curious that what angers you about a story where a massive gang shootout took place with nearly 200 gang members arrested because, in part, many gang members are flooding into the area undeterred by law enforcement as a show of support, which all evidences an enormous problem with this subset of organized crime in the southwest, that the word thug has predictabilty not been used at a rate you deem acceptable in media coverage.

Again, we aren't paramedics or police at the scene. I see no issue with a societal problem related to this being brought up in here, and it's a discussion that needs to be had more frequently, quite frankly.

 

[Cagey]

It's curious that you assume I post based on my anger.

Anger. Upset. Outrages. Annoys. Perturbs. Irritates. Piques your interest. Find worthy of discussion. Pick whichever you like and then address the point.

 

[soleil]

Anger. Upset. Outraged. Annoyed. Perturbed. Irritated. Piques your interest. Find worthy of discussion. Pick whichever you like and then address the point.

It's curious you think I post based on any of those things. The point I presented is exactly what you're derailing from to keep people from addressing.

 

[El_Presidente]

My wife is from Waco, this news doesn't surprise me. Luckily we are safe down here in College Station where the only biker gang is a group of TAMU students who ride mopeds around.

Yet, Aggies on mopeds seems somehow worse.

 

[PhoenixDark]

These cowards are definitely thugs.

 

[soleil]

Here's what I think is curious:

1. People point out a double standard in the use of the term "thug."

2. Other people cast doubt on the existence of said double standard, and one asks for proof.

3. I post the proof.

4. Now people blow up trying to stop the discussion about the matter.

 

[Cagey]

It's curious you think I post based on any of those things. The point I presented is exactly what you're derailing from to keep people from addressing.

Here's what I think is curious:

1. People point out a double standard in the use of the term "thug."

2. Other people cast doubt on the existence of said double standard, and one asks for proof.

3. I post the proof.

4. Now people blow up trying to stop the discussion about the matter.

Turning a biker gang shootout thread into the umpteenth discussion about the media's dog-whistle racism usage of thug isn't derailment, but noting said derailment is derailment, and it's only fear of your proof which correctly shows the word thug is used in said manner that has caused people to note you derailing the thread, and whatever it is you would like to imply by that?

Yikes. I give up.

 

[Funky Papa]

Sons of Anarchy shoot out kills 15 people. Only local cops attend, only local news outlets report, 2 members are arrested for a few days and 1 fall guy does 2 years in jail

Real world biker gang shoot out kills 9 people. 194 members arrested, makes global news.

Sutter is a shit writer on top of a dickwad. What else is new?

 

[andycapps]

It's also less descriptive than "street gang" and yet it still gets thrown around when street gangs are discussed...

I agree. I don't think the term "thugs" should be used in either case, but I get your point.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

Wow. My sister went to University in Waco. I've visited a couple times. Can't say I'm too surprised, outside of the school the town was a little questionable.

 

[ty_hot]

9 dead
18 injured
100+ arrested
nazi symbols

and people are discussing if we can call them thugs or no

I can imagine how would be the reacton if it would be a shootout involving black people.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

9 dead
18 injured
100+ arrested
nazi symbols

and people are discussing if we can call them thugs or no

I can imagine how would be the reacton if it would be a shootout involving black people.

the 100+ arrested would be 100+ dead.

 

[Hylian7]

the 100+ arrested would be 100+ dead.

Pretty much, I don't see a reason to be against having the discussion on racism as a whole as this is something where if they were black, they probably would be called "thugs" widely. We've seen this case occasionally referred to as "thugs", but it is pretty rare.

 

[PopeReal]

Turning a biker gang shootout thread into the umpteenth discussion about the media's dog-whistle racism usage of thug isn't derailment, but noting said derailment is derailment, and it's only fear of your proof which correctly shows the word thug is used in said manner that has caused people to note you derailing the thread, and whatever it is you would like to imply by that?

Yikes. I give up.

Maybe it is the umpteenth discussion because it happened for the umpteenth time?

 

[entremet]

We need a thug usage megathread. These threads are always devolving to the use the of the word thug.

It's getting annoying and yes these fools are thugs.

 

[PopeReal]

We need a thug usage megathread. These threads are always devolving to the use the of the word thug.

It's getting annoying and yes these fools are thugs.

NeoGAF does not want megathreads. New news = new thread.

 

[Moon Patrol Pilot]

No, because society at large is not using the term consistently.

Well here are some references to these biker gangs as "thugs". Sorry, this is all that I could find.

http://bearingarms.com/everythings-bigger-texas-biker-thug-shootout-leads-26-casualties-192-arrests/

http://twitchy.com/2015/05/17/white...ill-9-in-shootout-at-a-waco-texas-restaurant/

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/05/waco-police-alert-after-thug-bikers-orders

 

[SummitAve]

Pretty much, I don't see a reason to be against having the discussion on racism as a whole as this is something where if they were black, they probably would be called "thugs" widely. We've seen this case occasionally referred to as "thugs", but it is pretty rare.

You don't see a reason against people having a discussion on race based on a hypothetical you just came up with and called probable?

 

[Hylian7]

You don't see a reason against people having a discussion on race based on a hypothetical you just came up with and called probable?

Is it hypothetical? Take a look at Baltimore and Ferguson.

Regardless, I've seen a lot of victim blaming in comments on sites saying that this is Twin Peaks' fault for hosting a "biker night"...smh....

 

[Croatoan]

Yet, Aggies on mopeds seems somehow worse.

I forgot to say shirtless aggies on mopeds. The police call them the Vespa Hooligans (they will punch peoples side view mirrors and otherwise vandalize cars) according to my friend on the force. AFAIK, none of them have been arrested yet though.

Mopeds have become extremely popular in College Station over the last couple of years. I guess rich students can't be bothered to pedal bikes anymore...

 

[Metaphoreus]

The reason we're arguing over it is because of posts like these:

No, we're arguing over it because of posts like these:

These thugs need to be taught a less- wait... biker gangs? Nevermind, those patriots were just exercising their God-given freedoms.

Where's all the "thug" comments?

I was going to mention this, I find it odd that these guys haven't been widely called "thugs"...

And it's no surprise. These are the kinds of evidence-free, shoot-from-the-hip rationalizations that derail threads on a forum devoted to discussions based on "facts and evidence."

Now, you suggest that the benchmark for this comparison is 625 uses on the Monday following a football game. There are some problems with that comparison, but let's start with this: you offer that statistic at the start of the Monday following a shootout to justify the complaints made on Sunday. Before we can even compare the data sets you consider damning, we'd have to wait until Tuesday, at the earliest. Probably because you recognize the inadequacy of your suggestion in supporting yesterday's comments, you move the goalposts: now, we're not talking about whether "thug" has been used an inadequate number of times to describe the bikers in this case; no, the real topic is whether the media generally use "thug" more for one group than for another. That shift invites a derail of Philadelphian proportions, so I'll decline to follow your lead on it.

Is it hypothetical? Take a look at Baltimore and Ferguson.

Regardless, I've seen a lot of victim blaming in comments on sites saying that this is Twin Peaks' fault for hosting a "biker night"...smh....

Twin Peaks weren't the victims here. In fact, based on the police and franchisor statements, I'd say the franchisee in this case may have been complicit in what happened, to some extent.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Are there any more photos from this? I'm hoping that The Atlantic will do a piece on it.


Also, I cannot believe this thread has devolved into the semantics of the word thug...I mean seriously.

 

[soleil]

No, we're arguing over it because of posts like these:







And it's no surprise. These are the kinds of evidence-free, shoot-from-the-hip rationalizations that derail threads on a forum devoted to discussions based on "facts and evidence."

Now, you suggest that the benchmark for this comparison is 625 uses on the Monday following a football game. There are some problems with that comparison, but let's start with this: you offer that statistic at the start of the Monday following a shootout to justify the complaints made on Sunday. Before we can even compare the data sets you consider damning, we'd have to wait until Tuesday, at the earliest. Probably because you recognize the inadequacy of your suggestion in supporting yesterday's comments, you move the goalposts: now, we're not talking about whether "thug" has been used an inadequate number of times to describe the bikers in this case; no, the real topic is whether the media generally use "thug" more for one group than for another. That shift invites a derail of Philadelphian proportions, so I'll decline to follow your lead on it.

I was already talking about the media in general. I didn't move any goalposts. Not my fault if your thinking was too narrow to begin with that you didn't recognize it when someone else was talking about the big picture.

You were responding to people talking about a double standard in use of the term. I showed proof of the double standard. Why do you think people were citing this as one more example of the double standard? Obviously the context is media us in general. That was always the context. Why else would anyone cite this latest incident as a double standard? The only logical answer is that the use of the term by media in general was the context.

Stop being obtuse.

 

[SummitAve]

Is it hypothetical? Take a look at Baltimore and Ferguson.

Regardless, I've seen a lot of victim blaming in comments on sites saying that this is Twin Peaks' fault for hosting a "biker night"...smh....

Yes it is a hypothetical, you made it up. You made up a story in your head where black bikers in Ferguson and Baltimore are being labelled as thugs to force a discussion on race in a thread on biker violence in waco.

 

[Hylian7]

Yes it is a hypothetical, you made it up. You made up a story in your head where black bikers in Ferguson and Baltimore are being labelled as thugs to force a discussion on race in a thread on biker violence in waco.

I....what are you even talking about?

Explain to me where I made anything like that up. I was comparing violence in all three of those cities, Waco, Ferguson, and Baltimore. I never said "It was black bikers in Ferguson and Baltimore."

 

[Bleepey]

Sutter is a shit writer on top of a dickwad. What else is new?

Dude, I just saw the season finale of season 6, I will not let you insult his writing. The man knows how to shock the audience.

 

[Funky Papa]

Dude, I just saw the season finale of season 6, I will not let you insult his writing. The man knows how to shock the audience.

Do you know what's sad? I've been sitting on the finale since it aired. I never found the strength to watch it. Maybe one day I'll get to know if you are trolling me, Dexter finale style, or if Sutter finally got his shit together for the send off.

 

[Applesauce]

Do you know what's sad? I've been sitting on the finale since it aired. I never found the strength to watch it. Maybe one day I'll get to know if you are trolling me, Dexter finale style, or if Sutter finally got his shit together for the send off.

It was not remotely on the level of Dexter's finale, that shit was just ludicrous. SoA ended about how I expected, and the series finale wouldn't be in my favorite 2 or 3 season finales of the show. Season 6 and 3 off the top of my head were a lot better. Regardless, just get it over with and watch it

 

[Bleepey]

Do you know what's sad? I've been sitting on the finale since it aired. I never found the strength to watch it. Maybe one day I'll get to know if you are trolling me, Dexter finale style, or if Sutter finally got his shit together for the send off.

Why didn't you finish it, you go 7 seasons into it and you were like nah... fuck it, can't be arsed.

 

[Figboy79]

This is so insane. My heart goes out to the families that have been affected by this. Just horrible.

 

[GodofWine]

No phone camera footage yet??? I figured wed have some bat shit crazy footage leaked by now.

 

[Sequence Six]

So does the term "street gang" and that doesn't prevent anyone from using the term "thugs" when discussing black street gangs. But when discussing primarily white biker gangs, the term "thugs" is curiously missing.

Because these guys are bikers, not highwaymen that strangle their victims and kidnap children from local villages to work in their mines.

Seems pretty straightforward, honestly.

 

[CrimsonCommie]

Because these guys are bikers, not highwaymen that strangle their victims and kidnap children from local villages to work in their mines.

Seems pretty straightforward, honestly.

What

 

[Lonestar]

I wonder if the local courtrooms will look like something out of TDK. Dozens of criminals waiting for arraignment. Just nuts.

 

[Metaphoreus]

No phone camera footage yet??? I figured wed have some bat shit crazy footage leaked by now.

I think I saw some on the local news stream someone posted yesterday, but it didn't show much--just folks hiding behind their cars.

 

[Sequence Six]

What

I heard their leader can rip the hearts of men clean from their chests

 

[EatinOlives]

No phone camera footage yet??? I figured wed have some bat shit crazy footage leaked by now.

There was a vertical phone video of people (I think cops?) crouching behind cars but there was no accompanying sound so there really wasn't much to learn or see.

 

[Chariot]

No phone camera footage yet??? I figured wed have some bat shit crazy footage leaked by now.

I assume there was nobody that attention hungry that he wanted to become a target for some triggerhappy thugs.

Read the background on this. The gangs were using the restaurant as a meeting place, they had been causing issues there already. From what I have read there had been fights and harassment of customers. The police offered to help, the restaurant declined. They should have done what they needed to do to keep the place safe, they didn't do it. This had been building for months. I am sure there is some expectation in the franchise agreement to keep the place safe for patrons.

Seems completely reasonable to me. The franchisor's statement implied that this was an ongoing problem, and that the franchisee had ignored advice from the cops and the franchisor.

Mhm, ok, I didn't get the angle that it was an ongoing situation for months. Then it's quite reasonable, yes.