The baptism splits Booker off into Our!Booker and Comstock!Booker. Later, the experiences of Our!Booker in Columbia split him off into Our!Booker and Martyr!Booker.
I think.
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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
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The baptism splits Booker off into Our!Booker and Comstock!Booker. Later, the experiences of Our!Booker in Columbia split him off into Our!Booker and Martyr!Booker.
I think.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
According to a Voxophone (I think...), Martyr!Booker only got involved when Elizabeth was moved from Monument Island and needed the support of the Vox Populi to help him reach her. This turn of events wasn't even alluded to in Our!Booker's world, as far as I know. At what point was that split in Our!Booker's world...?
That's the question, I think. We've got a definitive point of origin for the Our!Booker/Comstock!Booker split, but not for Martyr!Booker.
I guess Our!Booker made a choice at some point early on that turned out to be a lot more significant than it appeared.
José Mourinho
cocknose
There were various pieces of music during the game that weren't included in digital soundtrack that I would of liked.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Man, this was a twist ending that makes no sense if the point was to end all paradoxes. A lot can be inferred, I suppose, but because it's all time travel and parallel universes with fairly loose rules, anything could happen.
I would have preferred the game without the tag at the end at the very least, if they truly wanted to play up the "infinite doors" thing.
I would have preferred the game without the tag at the end at the very least, if they truly wanted to play up the "infinite doors" thing.
Just doing another run through, this time taking lots of screen shots. I'm not very far in.
Has it been discussed if this is the same girl? Terrible first picture - I never thought to capture her fully until I ran across the 77 girl who looked very similar (everyone looks similar in this game).
Also, it maaay be a coincidence, but this is the shop just next to where the Beach Boys song is performed. Of course there were three Wilson brothers in the Beach Boys. I thought it was pretty neat.
Lastly, the winged statues, towers, etc. She's meant to be the archangel that gave visions to Comstock? This one has a key, the same way Liz had a key in the closing scenes.
Has it been discussed if this is the same girl? Terrible first picture - I never thought to capture her fully until I ran across the 77 girl who looked very similar (everyone looks similar in this game).
If it is the same girl, who is she? Is she in cahoots with the Lutece twins?
Also, it maaay be a coincidence, but this is the shop just next to where the Beach Boys song is performed. Of course there were three Wilson brothers in the Beach Boys. I thought it was pretty neat.
Lastly, the winged statues, towers, etc. She's meant to be the archangel that gave visions to Comstock? This one has a key, the same way Liz had a key in the closing scenes.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Thank god someone says it. Seems scripted to hell and back, booker even feels that is not controlled by a person but is just written into a cinematic that resembles gameplay.
whatevermort
Member
She's a repeated model. Because, you know, it's a game.
I think people need to stop grabbing quite as much as they are.
José Mourinho
cocknose
What does Multiverse have to do with it?
I must be missing something sorry, did not have my coffee today yet
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I prefer to believe that same identical group of two guys and a girl you keep running into several dozen times are the same trio of people who just happened to tear-jump a couple seconds into the future numerous times for shits and giggles.
"Shit, Booker's coming this way! Talk about your overbearing mother this time so he doesn't catch on."
José Mourinho
cocknose
Nothing, I'm being facetious. It's just my go to phrase when something simple sort of doesn't add up.What does Multiverse have to do with it?
I must be missing something sorry, did not have my coffee today yet
What does Multiverse have to do with it?
I must be missing something sorry, did not have my coffee today yet
They've been watching Booker take this journey repeatedly for a long time. It could be argued they very likely have given him more direct, helpful information before to no avail.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I guess that is what's niggling at me. I'm on my 2nd playthrough and although there are some neat little changes, none of the variables affect the outcome (I wouldn't expect it to either, just sayin'). I iz totally stumped trying to figure out the point at which Our!Booker would become Martyr!Booker. The main change between universes as far as I can tell is that Comstock moves Elizabeth (a sensible decision considering the lack of security at the monument... I think this Comstock read his Evil Overlord list).
Did Martyr!Booker even meet Elizabeth...? Doesn't seem like it. Since Martyr!Booker only passed into one of the Comstock!Booker's universes (the one where the Vox Populi successfully rebel), unlike Our!Booker who has to pass into at least two (perhaps three) Comstock!Booker universes with Liz's help, I think it has to be before you meet her, which suggests that Martyr!Booker must have been dragged to the successful uprising universe by the Lettuce Twins in the first place. Is this one of their failed attempts...? Without it though, Our!Booker wouldn't succeed in erasi--- Oh look, I've gone boss-eyed.
I figure I'm gonna be in the minority here, but I found the story so overblown, heavy-handed, over-written and unfocussed that I just couldn't wait until the damn thing ended. Between the whole Prophet, Lamb, religious order, rebel uprisings, alternate dimension, rebirths, existential identity crisis (and so on...) business, the whole narrative is crushed under the kitchen sink approach to story-telling, where every detail has to be explained, and then turned on its head. Ultimately I was left wondering if anything of substance was actually said underneath all the endless exposition and chatter. Was there a point to it all?
The real blight against the story, though, is the cowardly conclusion of Daisy Fitzroy and the Vox Populi's story arc. Too much of a risk to portray a black slave-lead grassroots resistance movement as the 'good' to the racist, nationalist fundamentalist religious leader's 'evil'? Seems that Levine thought it better to play it safe, sit on the fence, and go the old 'they're just as bad' route. Total copout.
So, ultimately no-one stood for anything, everyone's fucked anyway, and so who cares? Levine seems not to have. And I didn't.
Which is a big shame.
The real blight against the story, though, is the cowardly conclusion of Daisy Fitzroy and the Vox Populi's story arc. Too much of a risk to portray a black slave-lead grassroots resistance movement as the 'good' to the racist, nationalist fundamentalist religious leader's 'evil'? Seems that Levine thought it better to play it safe, sit on the fence, and go the old 'they're just as bad' route. Total copout.
So, ultimately no-one stood for anything, everyone's fucked anyway, and so who cares? Levine seems not to have. And I didn't.
Which is a big shame.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Also what was the plot significance of this guy
betty swollocks
Banned
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I'd say so. The message I took from Bioshock Infinite was this: Whatever choices you make in life, you're screwed.
Alternatively: Damned if you do, damned if you don't, not so damned if you drown yourself.
Valuable lessons there.
schwabdizzle
Banned
I beat Bioshock Inifinite Saturday morning and now I have zero urge to play anything else right now. Maybe it's the fact that I been waiting forever to play the game or maybe its the fact that the game was so good and weird that I feel everything that is out lately is shit. I am at that point with the game right now.
I learned that participating in mass murder and selling your daughter to settle your gambling debt makes you feel like a piece of shit and may lead to psychological problems.
Voice of Reason
Banned
I learned that mistakes can be erased if you have a daughter that is god.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Haha! Also? I'll be carrying a tin of half opened beans on me at all times from now on.
Edit: So, a quick capsule summary of Bioshock Infinite: Kleptomaniac father and daughter crime duo wreak havoc throughout time and space, murdering everyone in their wake.
That's about the size of it.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I learned that if you get displaced in the time based continuum and exist in all forms of time and space, enjoy the fuck out of it.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Here's my take on the Lady Comstock/Annabelle deal.
FACT: We know Lady Comstock's first name starts with A., as evidenced by that one picture of her that's all over Columbia, sometimes it has A. Comstock under it.
FACT: The gate at Comstock House mistakes Elizabeth for Lady Comstock.
Now for the theory: If we assume that Anna/Elizabeth's mother is the same woman as Lady Comstock from Booker's dimension, we can draw the following, logical conclusions: Her name was Annabelle. She died giving birth to Anna and to honor her, Booker named his daughter Anna. Comstock knows this as HIS Lady Comstock was also named Annabelle, obviously, as they're the same person. The "Annebelle? Is that you?" is just a wink-wink, nudge-nudge moment to this theory of mine, it put me on the track. What sealed it for me was the gate at Comstock House recognizing Elizabeth as Lady Comstock. Over a dress? I think not. They share genetic material because Lady Comstock is actually Elizabeth's mother, just in another dimension, just as Comstock is her father in a dimension where he isn't Comstock.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
You mean like how he couldn't remember selling his own daughter? Both of which happened about 20 years ago, before a lot of drinking, wallowing, and being swallowed by a parallel universe? It's not the biggest stretch.
I think it makes a great game, much better than any movie could be. The exploration and the fact that you "are" the character and learn about the world alongside him is a big part of what made it click for me.
Voice of Reason
Banned
But he could remember his wife even after the memory disruption.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Would Siren Lady Comstock not recognize her husband who looks 20 years younger standing beside Elizabeth when they're having their heart to heart?
She's not herself though right? She's like Elizabeth's projection of her?
José Mourinho
cocknose
I've no idea. That whole bit baffled me. Though Elizabeth does say that perhaps she is from another universe where she never meets Comstock.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Or... Lady Comstock isn't the wife Our!Booker takes in his universe. Solved?
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
I didn't play anything for three days after beating it. I felt like nothing would compare to it.
Joking aside, what did you all take away from the story? I think Ill Saint made a lot of valid points except despite all those problems, for me the story did come together in the end. However due to the nature of the ending the discussion now seems to be largely about the specifics of time travel and multiverses. Once we can get past grasping the developer's idea of how all this works in their fictional world (and I think the OP has a reasonable explanation) isn't the next question about the themes and characters in the story? I'm still not sure what to make of "I'm both" and idea of choice/free will (and how it compares to the first Bioshock).
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Player agency does take a back seat. I'd say the "bigger picture" relevance of the game was more about the nature of story telling, rather than free will or the like.
SolsticeZero
Banned
That's how I took it. I don't think Lady Comstock and Booker's wife are the same person. And the gate only recognizes Elizabeth as Lady Comstock because of the clothing.
OK, I hate even asking this question because time travel plots are notoriously screwy and are best just taken at face value, but which Booker is drowned at the end?
If it is 1912 Booker from a different timeline getting drowned how does that affect the past? Wouldn't they have to go and drown 10-years-ago Booker?
If it is 1912 Booker from a different timeline getting drowned how does that affect the past? Wouldn't they have to go and drown 10-years-ago Booker?
The first debt was literal monetary debt from gambling, it was paid off by giving over Anna. The second debt was his guilt.
And I believe you are correct, 123 coin tosses were all heads, so I think anything that is random chance is a constant, while human choice is a variable. You can choose the bird or the cage, you can choose head or tails, but when flipped the random variable will always be the same.
How many infusions did you guys find? I only remember getting two, I'm sure I missed oodles? There were also one or two that I saw and never got because I'm stupid, I assumed they were just salts, but you can tell from the three changing colours. How many in total are in the game?
I also didn't end up spending most of my money because I didn't realize how close to the end I was before it was too late to get to a vending machine, I think I had 4k banked, on regular, and I still found most battles easy. The final ship was the only hard part, never died during the ghosts.
I think it was deserving of all the 10/10 reviews, but part of my was let down by the lack of a singular final boss of some sort.
The end is so bittersweet, I've been thinking about it for days. Booker and Anna (seemingly) get to live as father and daughter and Anna never gets imprisoned for life. On the other hand, Anna never becomes Elizabeth, she'll grow up as a different person with different memories. Unless Space Elizabeth is still out there somehow.
The track "Elizabeth" on the soundtrack sums up the feeling very well.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
There is something like 24/25.
SolsticeZero
Banned
I actually disagree with you on that. I much prefer FPS games without gigantic bosses. Look at the final battle in Bioshock 1. It just felt out of place. Like it didn't belong. I much prefer setpiece battles, like with Songbird and the airships.
They kept changing her model since the early showcases, why not use what you've already made I guess. I'm pretty sure they de-boobied her from the original.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
This one's not so much about the relationship between games and players. It's a bit more about the relationship between the protagonist and the player, but mostly I think it's just a character drama, a sci-fi Greek tragedy about atonement, "paying your debts/washing your sins away." In the end, the only way for Booker to do that is to literally wash himself away. Water as a motif is used really well throughout the game, as it equates baptism to drowning several times. The irony of Booker having to accept Elizabeth's 'baptism' to wash away his own and Comstock's sins is deftly done. The end is simply an incredibly cathartic moment when both the audience and the protagonist know what has transpired, the tragedy of the horrible chain of the events having been caused by us, and that the only way to wipe the slate clean is to not just kill Booker but purge his very existence, and Liz with it. Really I think everything in the game is ultimately in service of that catharsis.
It throws in some commentary about the nature of games and stories in general, with constants and variables. I like the take that the multiple Elizabeths and Bookers in the sea of Lighthouses represents other players who made slightly different choices yet ended up in the same place. For the writer, the multiverse also represents the myriad choices he could've made to change the story, yet end up in the same place. For example the scrapped bits of the game we see in demos (nudged at by the original Elizabeth design showing up at the end).
They went though two tears in the game and ended up in lets call it Universe 3. So does that mean Booker and Elizabeth no longer exist in Universe 1? And why are there not Elizabeths in Universe 3 then, or would universe 3 Elizabeth have already torn through and gone to her own version of universe 3, so the Elizabeths just keep shifting over?
In that vein, which universe "matters"? They get the guns in universe 3, leaving universe 1 as it was?
In that vein, which universe "matters"? They get the guns in universe 3, leaving universe 1 as it was?