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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |

Well honestly what he said was literally just "Elizabeth is Comstocks daughter, She kills you at the end, Booker is Comstock"

Taken out of context, one of those is obvious if you have seen a trailer with the "seed of the prophet/ lamb" signs and the other two just make no sense. :p

It didn't ruin anything for me, I didn't even know if it was true.

People don't mean to do it but sometimes I think it's worse when (EDIT: Well, not worse, but comparably bad, maybe slightly less so), after something like that is said, people come in to talk about the severity of it and accidentally allude more to the context. Really, I think it's mostly better if everybody ignores it (but reports it to a moderator for removal) because at least that way, the bolded is still true. At least, as you've said, out of context they may not make sense (particularly the second, that makes it seem like there is malicious intent).
 
I'm in my 1999 mode run, and I just got to Downtown Emporia. The fun's about to begin! Honestly, so far in 1999 the hardest part was the beginning before you get options. I think I died about 10-15 times before I got to Elizabeth, and after Elizabeth I may have died like...3 or 4 since then? And almost exclusively to the freaking Patriots. I haven't died to the Handymen yet. Murder of Crows is a must for dealing with them in 1999. Saved my ass a few times, especially with the boosted length.

I have fully-upgraded Devil's Kiss and Murder of Crows-going to see if I can torch all the bodies of Lady Comstock and win that way. Otherwise it's going to be Return to Sender while I spam Hand Cannon and Carbine (the only two weapons I've upgraded).
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I figured when people were able to be spoiled by a single sentence it was something that would be plot concise, partially why I was likely able to figure out the booker/comstock thing leading up to the ending.
 

sn00zer

Member
does anyone have a screenshot of the police sketch? I though the joke was that it didnt look like Booker and actually looked like Andrew Ryan
 

LiK

Member
I figured when people were able to be spoiled by a single sentence it was something that would be plot concise, partially why I was likely able to figure out the booker/comstock thing leading up to the ending.

as soon as they hit me hard with tearing into other worlds, i sorta figured Comstock would be Booker. guess i watched too many time travel/alt universe stuff.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
as soon as they hit me hard with tearing into other worlds, i sorta figured Comstock would be Booker. guess i watched too many time travel/alt universe stuff.

Comstock being Booker was a complete shock to me right up until the end when they revealed it. Even after they said that i was trying to piece together how that could be and then a couple of minutes later thinking about the baptism and the split paths it really came together. That shit was executed perfectly in my case.
 
mentalfloss already showed up in the OT and analysis threads spouting his opinion on he game as fact (based on watching a 25 minute playthrough - his words). He then went on to question the validity of the games existence - based s solely on this information.

It is nice he took the time to come here to get more infomation so he canno go onhelp more people.
 

LiK

Member
Comstock being Booker was a complete shock to me right up until the end when they revealed it. Even after they said that i was trying to piece together how that could be and then a couple of minutes later thinking about the baptism and the split paths it really came together. That shit was executed perfectly in my case.

yea, the confirmation right before he drowned was really done. even if anyone figured it out, it still blew me away with how they executed it.
 

dLMN8R

Member
It's always funny to me when people try to over-analyze time travel and alternate dimension stories, trying to solve paradoxes. Between this, Fringe, Lost, The Dark Tower, etc.

You realize they're called paradoxes for a reason, right? :p By definition they can't be solved!


Over-analysis like that just seems like a quick path to detesting the thing as you nitpick every detail.
 
I use spoilers to see if I'm interested in a game sometimes. Without it I wouldn't have played 999 and Alpha Protocol (still need to get around to Nier). I don't see what's wrong with that. If you aren't a fan of that Scifi multiple dimension concept then you probably might have a sour opinion of this game overall.
 
Comstock being Booker was a complete shock to me right up until the end when they revealed it. Even after they said that i was trying to piece together how that could be and then a couple of minutes later thinking about the baptism and the split paths it really came together. That shit was executed perfectly in my case.

"I'm both"

That feeling...

Also watching Anna be stripped away and her finger comes off...

Man that entire last hour was nothing but an emotional roller coaster lol.
 

LiK

Member
"I'm both"

That feeling...

Also watching Anna be stripped away and her finger comes off...

Man that entire last hour was motoring but an emotional roller coaster lol.

kinda wish Elizabeth gave Booker a hug before he died. altho that would've made me cry...lol
 

AcridMeat

Banned
For those who didn't know until right at the end, what did you think it meant that he had a nosebleed right after you kill Comstock?

That's when it was solidified for me, it was an idea in my head before then.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
"I'm both"

That feeling...

Also watching Anna be stripped away and her finger comes off...

Man that entire last hour was nothing but an emotional roller coaster lol.

The finger scene was also masterful. I remembered as it hit slow motion a voxophone talking about her powers came form a piece of her being left from where she came from and i was ill freaking out.

For those who didn't know until right at the end, what did you think it meant that he had a nosebleed right after you kill Comstock?

That's when it was solidified for me, it was an idea in my head before then.


It honestly didnt register with me other than the generic 'new memories' concept.

kinda wish Elizabeth gave Booker a hug before he died. altho that would've made me cry...lol

It did feel kind of cold considering it was a murder/suicide type of deal. Just makes it more effective in an odd way.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
For those who didn't know until right at the end, what did you think it meant that he had a nosebleed right after you kill Comstock?

That's when it was solidified for me, it was an idea in my head before then.

Same here; the second his nosebleed was pointed out, I knew he was Comstock
 

LiK

Member
The finger scene was also masterful. I remembered as it hit slow motion a voxophone talking about her powers came form a piece of her being left from where she came from and i was ill freaking out.

Troy Baker's VO was excellent there. His desperation really made that scene heartbreaking.
 

DatDude

Banned
For those who didn't know until right at the end, what did you think it meant that he had a nosebleed right after you kill Comstock?

That's when it was solidified for me, it was an idea in my head before then.

For what its worth you could have figured out that Booker was comstock by the hall of heros stage.

The game is filled with tiny details that are easily noticeable in the bigger picture, so it's no wonder some people didn't make the connection at first.
 
For those who didn't know until right at the end, what did you think it meant that he had a nosebleed right after you kill Comstock?

That's when it was solidified for me, it was an idea in my head before then.

When I went through and replayed a second time, an interesting thing to note is that Booker gets his first nosebleed well before you meet Elizabeth: when you're going up the lift and Comstock is talking at you from his zeppelin ("I know all about you, Booker DeWitt.") and when you reach the top, Booker has the weird feeling and gets a nosebleed, because Comstock talks about Wounded Knee and Anna.

Interesting little detail, because it gives you enough time to forget about it between that and then him getting the nosebleed due to being in the Vox Rebellion timeline and you starting to put together what the nosebleeds are.
 

AcridMeat

Banned
For what its worth you could have figured out that Booker was comstock by the hall of heros stage.

The game is filled with tiny details that are easily noticeable in the bigger picture, so it's no wonder some people didn't make the connection at first.
I never claimed that's the first hint, just where it dawned as obvious to me.

I forgot about the nosebleed earlier on with the wounded knee, thanks for reminding me. I did remember the Vox rebellion though. That was a pretty neat realization. Trying to fix it for the better. The classic case of be careful what you wish for.
 

Zocano

Member
It's been a few days and I'm still sort of mulling over opinions on the game which is turning out to be really frustrating and irritating. I can't seem to pin a solid overall mindset on the game, either, since I just feel there are a good number of flaws to it, too, not just my own dislike of "time travel/multiple dimension" stuff.

I don't think I'll ever get a solid stance on my feelings about the story; I get the feeling I'll always just feel "blegh" about it as I do Deadly Premonition, Mass Effect, Catherine, and several other games with narratives that don't sit right with me. But given that, I also feel the combat was a bit lackluster, and not only that but the pacing in the latter half of the game just kind of gets weird and uninteresting. At least the latter half just feels like shootbang the game and you stop interacting with NPCs in non-shoot-them-in-the-face capacities. This basically ceases after Fitzroy is cut out of the picture.

Speaking of Fitzroy, I'm still a bit miffed as to how she was taken out of the story and it just didn't feel like a satisfying closure to her character and the context behind her and the Vox going apeshit on you never felt good for me and continued to be so all the way to the end. I liked what they had going with Fitzroy but then she's snuffed out and I just felt we didn't see her enough.

Back on the pacing, I just get a feeling that the whole second half was rushed, this is especially so with the boys of silence who were only in the game for maybe 30 minutes tops and it would have been cool to have maybe one more section with them. That little bit was still memorable, I just wish it was longer. And regarding the combat, the enemy variety also stops changing after Fitzroy is out (yah, you see a lot of 'Vox' variants of enemies but they really aren't mechanically different from the regular variants). There's the siren but I hated the siren fights and they just grew so clusterfuck-y and not enjoyable for me. Basically any fight without rails around were pretty "eh". This might have been due to playing on hard but with a high concentration of enemies with chain guns and rockets in the latter half and being unable to get around quickly (in cases with battles without rails), fights just grew a bit frustrating to manage when I constantly just had to sit in cover.

I know there were a few comments on how people are highly critical of this game to "balance out" the constant praise (and to be fair it's a bit lonesome/annoying/etc to be surrounded by people who are just constantly in a state of "THIS GAME IS FLAWESS/AMAZING/PERFECT" and not feel that same joy), but I had these complaints in my head in-the-moment as I was playing the game but after getting through the ending my frustrations with the story became all-consuming. To serve as a compliment to infinite, I started playing Bioshock 2 again and god damn am I enjoying the writing and characters in that game.

edit: Rereading this I feel like I'm trashing this game too much but I'd argue it's because I'm having a shitty reaction to the ending and am purposefully not mentioning the things I enjoyed. I liked the motion of the combat when there are rails (again, I'll mention multiple times that sections without rails feel imbalanced almost due to the high concentration of enemies with chain guns and explosives). I enjoyed a few of the vigors a lot (Sender specifically) and I liked used the water vigor on the ship due to being able to just push all the enemies off the side (made things a lot easier). I liked Fitzroy, I liked the moments when you could just walk around uninterrupted, I liked doing things in the world and having Elizabeth comment on them (I remember this specifically with killing Slate after choosing to spare him earlier and her commenting on me mercy killing him).
 
You're right, BioShock has more fleshed out world building, but Infinite has better storytelling (imo). Both have their strengths. It's possible that they had so much going on that they didn't feel the need to go into Plasmids/Vigors again, but it's a valid criticism
I will say despite being slightly disappointed that Infinite's background isn't more detailed, I totally agree that it's story is better told. I can see myself playing through Infinite several times, probably not exploring as much and running through scenes like the beach instead of talking to everyone. With BioShock, where a huge part of my enjoyment was the slow burn of learning how everything works, playing through it again isn't very appealing.

Basically BioShock feels like sitting down with a really dense book and Infinite feels more like watching a movie like Blade Runner, lots of action but with interesting themes.

The hugely improved gameplay adds to that feeling too, but I agree, both have their strengths and are memorable for different reasons.
 
I will say despite being slightly disappointed that Infinite's background isn't more detailed, I totally agree that it's story is better told. I can see myself playing through Infinite several times, probably not exploring as much and running through scenes like the beach instead of talking to everyone. With BioShock, where a huge part of my enjoyment was the slow burn of learning how everything works, playing through it again isn't very appealing.

Basically BioShock feels like sitting down with a really dense book and Infinite feels more like watching a movie like Blade Runner, lots of action but with interesting themes.

The hugely improved gameplay adds to that feeling too, but I agree, both have their strengths and are memorable for different reasons.

I think the biggest difference between Bioshock and Infinite, and the main reason their stories are so different, is that in Bioshock you're showing up at Rapture after all the stories have happened. Rapture's prime is long-gone, you're showing up after the fall. But in Infinite, you're there WHEN shit is happening. You're there as the fall is occurring. As such, it's harder to build the world through the voxophones when it's not in relation to the complex Elizabeth backstory because shit is going down as you're running through the streets. Meanwhile, in Bioshock you're learning about Rapture in its prime, why it fell, what happened after the fall, which is why the Bioshock story is much more of a slow burn. Jack's story =/= Rapture's story. But Booker's story is an inherent part of Columbia's story.

I hope what I said makes some sort of sense.
 
Sorry if this has been pointed out before, and this isn't really a spoiler (more just a neat thing) but I was curious to see how different those early gameplay videos were from the final product - and stumbled across the fact that they hid the ragtime cover of 'Everyone Wants to Rule the World' way back in the first gameplay video from 2010.

You can clearly make out the melody, if not the lyrics. I don't recall anyone picking up on this cover when the original video came out, but now having the final 'full' cover to reference it's clearly the same song.

Skip to around 5:50 in this video to hear it:
http://youtu.be/Y_DSfjAdhlU
 

Gorillaz

Member
I agree with you Zocano on Daisy being taken out. Felt they missed a true opportunity to do something with the storyline, even the Vox Poppuli felt half baked in execution
 

J.W.Crazy

Member
The finger scene was also masterful. I remembered as it hit slow motion a voxophone talking about her powers came form a piece of her being left from where she came from and i was ill freaking out.

Honestly, I couldn't stop laughing at the finger scene. I had to pause the game. When she brought it up earlier in the game it was already ruined for me. She says "Go ahead, ask me about it," then you do and her response is basically "I don't know either so this conversation is pointless except for...foreshadowing!" When the scene comes the baby is reaching out in such a comical way with it's pinky just so, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Nothing about it felt organic to me and then the reveal came across like a Sci Fi parody.
 

Zocano

Member
I agree with you Zocano on Daisy being taken out. Felt they missed a true opportunity to do something with the storyline, even the Vox Poppuli felt half baked in execution

I was really excited once Booker finally met her in person. Then, two weird ~weird timeline shifts~ and one hamfisted desire to kill you and I was gravely disappointed. I feel this is probably my strongest complaint about the story that is a real critique of the storytelling that's not just "I don't like time travel/dimensions stuff".
 

LiK

Member
I agree with you Zocano on Daisy being taken out. Felt they missed a true opportunity to do something with the storyline, even the Vox Poppuli felt half baked in execution

i seriously hope we play as a Vox Populi member in one of the DLCs.
 

AcridMeat

Banned
I was really excited once Booker finally met her in person. Then, two weird ~weird timeline shifts~ and one hamfisted desire to kill you and I was gravely disappointed. I feel this is probably my strongest complaint about the story that is a real critique of the storytelling that's not just "I don't like time travel/dimensions stuff".
I agree. It came out of nowhere to me for them to just turn on you.

In a way the Vox Populi are the people who don't like the sci fi dimensional shit. "They did what?! GET EM!"
 

belvedere

Junior Butler
Sorry if this has been pointed out before, and this isn't really a spoiler (more just a neat thing) but I was curious to see how different those early gameplay videos were from the final product - and stumbled across the fact that they hid the ragtime cover of 'Everyone Wants to Rule the World' way back in the first gameplay video from 2010.

You can clearly make out the melody, if not the lyrics. I don't recall anyone picking up on this cover when the original video came out, but now having the final 'full' cover to reference it's clearly the same song.

Skip to around 5:50 in this video to hear it:
http://youtu.be/Y_DSfjAdhlU

In one of Elizabeth's first tears where you're in Paris in the future, you hear Everybody Wants To Rule The World and Return of The Jedi is the advertised movie at the theater. So awesome.
 

Gorillaz

Member
The vox poppuli were all like

"hey hes suppose to be dead and shit....this don't make sense...UGGGHGHH IM CONFUSED AND NOW ANGRY

KILL HIM "
 

ultron87

Member
I'd also like to see a DLC set in the Old Elizabeth timeline. If that is what Comstock house is like getting to see the rest of Columbia in that era could be pretty interesting.
 

LiK

Member
I'd also like to see a DLC set in the Old Elizabeth timeline. If that is what Comstock house is like getting to see the rest of Columbia in that era could be pretty interesting.

the ability to play as Elizabeth in one of the DLCs would be pretty cool as well. maybe strictly as a story over combat,.
 

LiK

Member
Yeah, it could be purely a collection-fest. Scour for ammo, salt, and coins.

HAHA, well, i mean no Booker in it either. maybe it'll be one of the parts where you were separated from her or play as her in an alt timeline.
 

ultron87

Member
Maybe give more reason for her to reject alt-timeline Booker. And did we ever find out what happened to alt-Elizabeth?

I think there's a log from Booker that says she got moved out of the tower so he couldn't get to her, which is why he had to join up with the Vox.
 
Maybe give more reason for her to reject alt-timeline Booker.

My guess is that, since Elizabeth's tears were leading her to things her mind was filling in (she says they were "wish fulfillment"), she was just filling in an alternate Columbia with the French Revolution.

She replaced one tyrant with another.
 

Guri

Member
So, did you guys realize that one of the models of Liz at the ending was the first one? I saw it on a video talking about the ending. As the guy said, I think it means that on some universe, that Elizabeth was there.

semttuloq2dv6.png

Sorry if it was already discussed.
 

LiK

Member
So, did you guys realize that one of the models of Liz at the ending was the first one? I saw it on a video talking about the ending. As the guy said, I think it means that on some universe, that Elizabeth was there.



Sorry if it was already discussed.

yup, discussed.
 
So, did you guys realize that one of the models of Liz at the ending was the first one? I saw it on a video talking about the ending. As the guy said, I think it means that on some universe, that Elizabeth was there.



Sorry if it was already discussed.
I have been idly sort of wondering for a few days if all the stuff cut from the game that we saw in previous trailers was actually cut or just a meta-commentary about the various things that never happen to this Booker and Elizabeth.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I'm in my 1999 mode run, and I just got to Downtown Emporia. The fun's about to begin! Honestly, so far in 1999 the hardest part was the beginning before you get options. I think I died about 10-15 times before I got to Elizabeth, and after Elizabeth I may have died like...3 or 4 since then? And almost exclusively to the freaking Patriots. I haven't died to the Handymen yet. Murder of Crows is a must for dealing with them in 1999. Saved my ass a few times, especially with the boosted length.

I have fully-upgraded Devil's Kiss and Murder of Crows-going to see if I can torch all the bodies of Lady Comstock and win that way. Otherwise it's going to be Return to Sender while I spam Hand Cannon and Carbine (the only two weapons I've upgraded).

There are four parts in 1999 Mode that can be a bit hard.

The three "boss" encounters and the final battle. The first two "boss" encounters can be cheesed, the third takes a little luck and is mostly about cover and dealing damage fast, and the final battle is made practically trivial with a gear called Winter Shield.
 

LiK

Member
jokes on us when all the missing scenes from the trailers ends up being in the DLCs. maybe everyone who were disappointed would be happy they get to play those alt timelines.
 

ezekial45

Banned
jokes on us when all the missing scenes from the trailers ends up being in the DLCs. maybe everyone who were disappointed would be happy they get to play those alt timelines.

I'd seriously love to have a Saltonstall focused DLC. He looked to be a pretty unsettling but interesting character.

Saltonstall_Poster.png
 

Gorillaz

Member
I'm half expecting atleast half of the cut parts will be DLC. They made too much of a big deal out of it, saying how many hours were cut and stuff. It could have been PR but the way this game ended up I truly believe parts were cut so it could ship quicker.
 

Nemesis_

Member
I could only beat the Siren by abusing Charge (it provides brief invulnerability and shield recharge once upgraded) and a piece of gear that doubled damage against an enemy after you melee them.

Charge --> Double Damage Activated --> Unload with Handcannon -> Charge to Recharge Shield --> Repeat.

I'm half expecting atleast half of the cut parts will be DLC. They made too much of a big deal out of it, saying how many hours were cut and stuff. It could have been PR but the way this game ended up I truly believe parts were cut so it could ship quicker.

Ken said on Twitter that it was cut for good reason - though maybe he was talking about quality of the gameplay (which would require more time) and not the narrative implications.
 
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