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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |

F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Jest Chillin said:
Booker isn't hired by Robert Lutece. The Lutece Twins open a tear and pull Booker in.
Click to expand...

I thought the twins effectively hired him to fulfill the task while giving him all of the items you see in his suitcase at the beginning of the game?

And it's the process of "the Lutece Twins open a tear and pull Booker in" that I would have wanted to see for an explanation as to why Booker could not have perceived the change in universes.
 
B

beastmode

Member
Sober said:
LOST didn't really have a multiverse thing, it seemed pretty straight even when they did the whole backwards timetravel thing. Fringe wasn't that confusing either, it seemed pretty simple to understand, though occasionally some details get lost in the shuffle.
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It had what seemed like a multiverse (one where they prevented the plane from crashing, other where they failed.) Desmond snaps and acts all weird, thinking that messing with the light will get them to the better reality. Twist being that it was actually their limbo awaiting them.

I like rewriting history being a false hope better than killing yourself to deny all bad versions of you from existing.
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
Sblargh said:
Booker was in Wounded Knee. All versions of him. He changes his name to Comstock because of what he did, as Booker, on Wounded Knee.
Click to expand...

I know, but you'd think Slate would have heard Comstock over the intercom, since he too was in the Hall of Heroes.
 
D

DatDude

Banned
So my friends is really interested in Infinite...but also wants to have the complete package so to speak (all the dlc released).

Do we a predicted timetable for the 1st dlc episode?

Maybe early july?
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
DatDude said:
So my friends is really interested in Infinite...but also wants to have the complete package so to speak (all the dlc released).

Do we a predicted timetable for the 1st dlc episode?

Maybe early july?
Click to expand...

Unless Ken already has the DLCs sketched out, I can't imagine him even getting back to work and progress being made until July. Hell, he's still on a press tour so his much deserved vacation hasn't even begun yet.

Six months does sound more reasonable.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
GavinGT said:
I know, but you'd think Slate would have heard Comstock over the intercom, since he too was in the Hall of Heroes.
Click to expand...

We heard comstocks voice over the radio.. and it sounds nothing like Dewitt, why do you think Slate would recognize it as Dewitt?
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
SmithnCo said:
Yeah... especially when you have certain gear that will help replenish salts/health, not using the item vendors really isn't much of a challenge.
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yeah I barely used them in hard mode, so I'm guessing it won't be too bad.

so far I'm doing pretty good, just got to fink's.
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
Ferrio said:
We heard comstocks voice over the radio.. and it sounds nothing like Dewitt, why do you think Slate would recognize it as Dewitt?
Click to expand...

The question was whether Slate knew Booker was in Wounded Knee. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Comstock coming on the intercom and announcing that Booker took part in the battle. If so, Slate would have heard that and would have known (or he would have rejected it as another of Comstock's lies).

Again, maybe I'm misremembering it and Comstock just said something like, "Why don't you tell Elizabeth what happened at Wounded Knee?".
 
S

Sblargh

Banned
GavinGT said:
The question was whether Slate knew Booker was in Wounded Knee. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Comstock coming on the intercom and announcing that Booker took part in the battle. If so, Slate would have heard that and would have known (or he would have rejected it as another of Comstock's lies).
Click to expand...

He knew. That's why he wanted Booker to kill him. He wanted a war with a real soldier instead of "tin men".

One question: Where does the name for the achievment "Saw the Elephant" comes from? It is for beating the game on the normal difficulty.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
GavinGT said:
The question was whether Slate knew Booker was in Wounded Knee. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Comstock coming on the intercom and announcing that Booker took part in the battle. If so, Slate would have heard that and would have known (or he would have rejected it as another of Comstock's lies).

Again, maybe I'm misremembering it and Comstock just said something like, "Why don't you tell Elizabeth what happened at Wounded Knee?".
Click to expand...

Slate knew Booker was in wounded knee, he was talking directly to Dewitt about it. The both fought together there....
 
F

Fjordson

Member
DatDude said:
Have questions? Or just digesting?
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My one question (and this may be a dumb one) is...like, was Comstock's plan all along to have Elizabeth and Columbia destroy America? Or "the sodom below" as Comstock always called it? Or was that something she does on her own in that timeline?

I'm assuming that's why Elizabeth knew it had to all be stopped. Not so much because of Comstock or anything you see happen in 1912, but because of what you see Columbia doing to New York in the 1983 tear.
 
B

beastmode

Member
GavinGT said:
The question was whether Slate knew Booker was in Wounded Knee. I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Comstock coming on the intercom and announcing that Booker took part in the battle. If so, Slate would have heard that and would have known (or he would have rejected it as another of Comstock's lies).

Again, maybe I'm misremembering it and Comstock just said something like, "Why don't you tell Elizabeth what happened at Wounded Knee?".
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that was Slate.

Of course he knows Booker was at Wounded Knee, they were in it together.
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
Sblargh said:
He knew. That's why he wanted Booker to kill him. He wanted a war with a real soldier instead of "tin men".

One question: Where does the name for the achievment "Saw the Elephant" comes from? It is for beating the game on the normal difficulty.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up.

And it means overwhelming emotions.

beastmode said:
Pretty sure that was Slate.

Of course he knows Booker was at Wounded Knee, they were in it together.
Click to expand...

Sorry i was confused in more ways than one.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
Fjordson said:
My one question (and this may be a dumb one) is...like, was Comstock's plan all along to have Elizabeth and Columbia destroy America? Or "the sodom below" as Comstock always called it? Or was that something she does on her own in that timeline?

I'm assuming that's why Elizabeth knew it had to all be stopped. Not so much because of Comstock or anything you see happen in 1912, but because of what you see Columbia doing to New York in the 1983 tear.
Click to expand...

A bit of both. Comstock saw the event happen via a tear, so he was trying to create that future he was seeing.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
what just stroke me as weird is that comstock is called a commander on the hall of heroes while booker was actually a corporal.

maybe that's just comstock boosting himself up even more, but I thought it was weird.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Ferrio said:
A bit of both. Comstock saw the event happen via a tear, so he was trying to create that future he was seeing.
Click to expand...
Ah, okay.

And then the post-credits scene is basically Booker after rejecting baptism right? Living his life without Columbia existing.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Ferrio said:
A bit of both. Comstock saw the event happen via a tear, so he was trying to create that future he was seeing.
Click to expand...
Cool. What an ending. Goddamn. I'm a little surprised how much it all makes sense. As it was unfolding I was starting to roll my eyes thinking "what is this horseshit" but as it gets near the end and you start piecing everything together it works well.

The idea about the tears letting people create things from plagiarism, like the old-time Tears for Fears song, is such a brilliant touch. The Girls Just Wanna Have Fun cover playing when you're on the beach is such a brilliant clue in hindsight. And the vigors were a copy of the plasmids from Rapture I'm guessing?

Andrew Ryan doesn't factor into any of this does he? When Elizabeth and Booker open that door to Rapture I thought something crazy was going to go down regarding him. Was still great to see the city again, though.
 
K

KnockOneOff

Banned
Hi guys,

Could someone tell me that has finished infinite, im now at the section where im looking for the 3 tear drops for elizabeths mother, how much more i have to go? kind of feeling abit like a chore now battling through to the end?



Cheers :)
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
KnockOneOff said:
Hi guys,

Could someone tell me that has finished infinite, im now at the section where im looking for the 3 tear drops for elizabeths mother, how much more i have to go? kind of feeling abit like a chore now battling through to the end?



Cheers :)
Click to expand...
not much, just a couple hours.
 
M

Myaora

Neo Member
Although I'm almost certain this question was asked before, and the explanation's probably most obvious. I'm still left wondering, what if Elizabeth had taken Booker back to moment when Lutece decided to pursue a career in physics... If Lutece never invents the "device", Colombia could not have exited, therefore Comstock (no matter how "evil") could not have used a tear to get his hands on Anna and everyone would have lived happily ever after... Or ar the Luteces just bitchy about being seperated from time and space? Why would Anna even care about how the Luteces feel? :p
 
X

Xanathus

Member
Myaora said:
Although I'm almost certain this question was asked before, and the explanation's probably most obvious. I'm still left wondering, what if Elizabeth had taken Booker back to moment when Lutece decided to pursue a career in physics... If Lutece never invents the "device", Colombia could not have exited, therefore Comstock (no matter how "evil") could not have used a tear to get his hands on Anna and everyone would have lived happily ever after... Or ar the Luteces just bitchy about being seperated from time and space? Why would Anna even care about how the Luteces feel? :p
Click to expand...

Because then someone else could have invented the device as that (Lutece inventing the device) isn't one of the constants of all time-lines. She's trying to eradicate literally every single tiny possibility of herself becoming a time god.
 
C

CambriaRising

Member
zkylon said:
what just stroke me as weird is that comstock is called a commander on the hall of heroes while booker was actually a corporal.

maybe that's just comstock boosting himself up even more, but I thought it was weird.
Click to expand...

Almost certainly him exaggerating. Everything about those displays is.

The guy has a track record of lying. Archangel my ass.
 
S

Stoze

Member
Thinking back on this game, I really think the part that blew me away was visiting The First Lady's Memorial within the Hall of Heroes. The beautiful rooms combined with the different classical music literally gave me chills. In fact, up until around Chen Lin, I think this game had near flawless presentation.
 
W

Wind's Howling

Member
Stoze said:
Thinking back on this game, I really think the part that blew me away was visiting The First Lady's Memorial within the Hall of Heroes. The beautiful rooms combined with the different classical music literally gave me chills. In fact, up until around Chen Lin, I think this game had near flawless presentation.
Click to expand...

The Chen Lin part was the moment the game became quite a stale, almost like any other shooter. It went upwards when Fitzroy got killed by Elizabeth.

IGN were not kidding that the middle portion of the game just dragged on too much. There was no need for such a thing.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Rivyn said:
The Chen Lin part was the moment the game became quite a stale, almost like any other shooter. It went upwards when Fitzroy got killed by Elizabeth.

IGN were not kidding that the middle portion of the game just dragged on too much. There was no need for such a thing.
Click to expand...
Could not agree more. Going back and forth with the Gunsmith was bad compared to the first third or so of the game. Some of the story implications from that section were interesting, but overall it just felt boring. Even the environment itself from a visual standpoint was somewhat dull. When you first arrive at Fink's area it looks really interesting and the whole industrial labor thing could make for a great environment, but inside where the Gunsmith's office is wasn't really anything special. Thankfully, I really loved everything else.

My one other nitpick is that I didn't think Comstock was as compelling as Andrew Ryan. Knowing what I know now the Comstock character is pretty mindblowing, but as I was going through the game I did find myself missing some of the personalities that were in the first Bioshock, like Ryan or Sander Cohen. It was like I never felt that I was getting to know any of the side characters like I did with some of the more important people in Rapture. Same goes for the city itself. The game's focus shifted more to Booker and Elizabeth after a while. Understandably so, and it definitely works, but I want to know more about the founders and how they grew the city to what it is now. I felt like we got a much better picture of Rapture before Jack arrives in BS 1 than Columbia before Booker arrives in Infinite.

Hopefully the DLC will be used to flesh out some of that lore.
 
N

Nugg

Member
It's been almost a week now and I'm still thinking about it. This fucking game man.

There's one thing that blew my mind into tiny pieces, it's the music. When I first heard God Only Knows, I thought it was some kind of goof. "Yeah right, the Beach Boys in 1913. Great job Ken." Then I spotted that Cindy Lauper song, and I started thinking something was up.

When I realised Fink wrote those songs spying on another (our?) universe through a tear, it blew my mind. For some reason I love being proven wrong when I think I spot some mistake but it's in fact part of some bigger picture I don't get yet.

Last time it happened to me was with Lost, in that "we have to go back" episode. Lost spoilers:
in that episode you're led to believe you're watching a flashback from before the crash. Yet Jack is sporting a cell phone released after the crash. I thought it was a silly mistake, or that maybe product placement was more important than continuity. But then it's revealed that you're watching something happening after they left the island so it all made sense. I loved that and Bioshock made me think about that.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Nugg said:
It's been almost a week now and I'm still thinking about it. This fucking game man.

There's one thing that blew my mind into tiny pieces, it's the music. When I first heard God Only Knows, I thought it was some kind of goof. "Yeah right, the Beach Boys in 1913. Great job Ken." Then I spotted that Cindy Lauper song, and I started thinking something was up.

When I realised Fink wrote those songs spying on another (our?) universe through a tear, it blew my mind. For some reason I love being proven wrong when I think I spot some mistake but it's in fact part of some bigger picture I don't get yet.

Last time it happened to me was with Lost, in that "we have to go back" episode. Lost spoilers:
in that episode you're led to believe you're watching a flashback from before the crash. Yet Jack is sporting a cell phone released after the crash. I thought it was a silly mistake, or that maybe product placement was more important than continuity. But then it's revealed that you're watching something happening after they left the island so it all made sense. I loved that and Bioshock made me think about that.
Click to expand...
I'm totally with you. The 1912 versions of newer music were such a great touch.

My favourite is the Tears For Fears cover in the ending credits (I think you can hear it in one of shops in-game also, but I missed it). It's so catchy.
 
J

jiggles

Banned
My most mindblowing thing was the use of the choices you make during the game (the raffle, coin toss, brooch) to turn a perceived weakness of the game into one of its greatest strengths for storytelling.

Bioshock 1 did this with your linear route through Rapture and limited options to progress tying in with the use of the "would you kindly" trigger-phrase, and I was hoping this would have a similarly impressive use of mechanics as metaphor. It was only after the credits rolled I got it.

Just like how Booker choosing not to be baptised didn't stop the ultimate fate of Comstock existing, your choices don't affect what actually happens with the story. No matter how many times you play through the game and make different choices, the outcome is always the same, because every choice you make creates a new alternate universe where you chose differently.

What would usually be open to criticsm (ie. that your choices are meaningless, you can't affect the story, and everything happens the same each time you play it) is fully embraced as it enforces the point the game is trying to make at the climax: The only way to stop Comstock is to never make the choice.

The only way to stop it all from happening is to not play the game.
 
G

GoddyofAus

Banned
I feel I need to quote Robin Williams here describing his character who has PTSD in The Fisher King on Inside the Actors Studio:

"You're playing a character who is so vulnerable, he's created another person; When you have PTSD, it's an incident so traumatic that you create another being, and the only way to get back to who you are is to regress."

This description matches Comstock to an absolute tee.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Has their been any sort of hints about the DLC? Is it going to further explore Columbia before the game? Or will it deal with more Elizabeth and the tears and all that?

Guessing it's all vague right now, but maybe I missed some hint from Irrational in an interview or something.
 
P

PepperJack

Banned
Thinking more about this game, it has very similar concepts to looper, only looper was a better, less contrived story that had a twist but gave you all the details in manageable tidbits. Infinite is good too, but I honestly have to replay the game to fully appreciate it and actually pay more attention to the voxophones this time.

As for the "OMG Songbird is in bioshock 1" - technically Levine could have gone back to Bioshock 1, and looked at the wealth of stuff they put in there, and came up with something tied to that world to put in Bioshock Infinite. In fact, I think if you know your game will have a sequel, it is always good to drop little tid bits that can tie it to future sequels. Songbird could have had another random screeching sound effect from Bioshock 1, it's not that big a deal.

How is 1999 mode? I played infinite on hard and got my ass handed to myself on numerous occasions, and I don't think I used vigors all that intelligently. Is there a guide on how to approach 1999 mode and have fun with it?
 
G

GoddyofAus

Banned
I would actually like to see Elizabeth growing up in the tower explored a bit, whether it be in Voxophones or actual gameplay, like her first experience opening a tear and how she reacted to doing it.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
GoddyofAus said:
I would actually like to see Elizabeth growing up in the tower explored a bit, whether it be in Voxophones or actual gameplay, like her first experience opening a tear and how she reacted to doing it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I want more on Columbia. Elizabeth as a kid, the growth of the city. I want to know more about the other Founders like Saltonstall, Marlowe, Vanderwald, and the others. Who they are. How they were all chosen and why. Some background on the Songbird. There's so much potential for story there. Really has me tempted to buy that season pass, something I usually never buy.

Also, this isn't in the actual game right?

358px-Comstock_Banner.png


Let's get a prequel DLC where Comstock looks like that.
 
S

symphonask

Member
DatDude said:
I'm still crossing my fingers for a Next Gen Directors GOTY Edition, with alot of the behind scenes development stuff.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about this and I thought it would be really easy to make a mode where there are various voxaphones scattered about the world narrated by the development staff which explains how they built the game. It would of been a cool way to do developer commentary while still being part of the world and a great way to experience the game for a second playthrough.

Some great examples of dev. commentary in games:

Portal 2
Alan Wake

any others?
 
J

JohngPR

Member
FluxWaveZ said:
I thought the twins effectively hired him to fulfill the task while giving him all of the items you see in his suitcase at the beginning of the game?

And it's the process of "the Lutece Twins open a tear and pull Booker in" that I would have wanted to see for an explanation as to why Booker could not have perceived the change in universes.
Click to expand...

They did provide him with that stuff. They very much knew that they were pulling him in so they probably had that stuff ready ahead of time.

It seems like they counted on Booker making up his own memories to make sense of it, when he started mumbling that he was there to find the girl and wipe away the debt, you can hear Robert Lutece say something to the effect of "Told you it would work."

They do show the Lutece Twins open a tear and pull Booker in:

ID5JIUP.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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