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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
Yes, it doesn't matter if it's Booker or not. There is always someone that creates a city.
As far as I understand, some events will happen no matter which universe (=which different events have sharpened the world) you're in.
Haunted
Member
Absolutely. It's the way in which DeWitt copes with his past and his war crimes at Wounded Knee through the baptism that make him into Comstock in the first place.
From the OP:
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Yeah, I just realized that. Baptism as a symbol of superficial redemption is a good symbolic jumping-off point for the guy to become a superficial savior. Not accepting that shit and getting swallowed by your misery is what our Booker chose.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Just had a thought today while replaying the game.
When you and Elizabeth move into the other realities, does it ever explain what that reality's Elizabeth is up to? I know that Booker died in the Vox victory timeline, but I can't remember if they allude to where the other Elizabeth is. Could Booker and Elizabeth have conceivably run into another Elizabeth, or was she dead along with Booker at that point? Or is that reality more of a "time skip" forward to a point where the same Booker/Elizabeth had gotten the tools for the Vox, only Booker had died?
Songbird knows to look for them even in the Vox victory timeline, so I guess he doesn't have another Elizabeth to be looking for.
When you and Elizabeth move into the other realities, does it ever explain what that reality's Elizabeth is up to? I know that Booker died in the Vox victory timeline, but I can't remember if they allude to where the other Elizabeth is. Could Booker and Elizabeth have conceivably run into another Elizabeth, or was she dead along with Booker at that point? Or is that reality more of a "time skip" forward to a point where the same Booker/Elizabeth had gotten the tools for the Vox, only Booker had died?
Songbird knows to look for them even in the Vox victory timeline, so I guess he doesn't have another Elizabeth to be looking for.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
That's what didn't make sense to me. When you go to Voxworld, everything continues as if nothing happened.
Iron_Scimitar
Banned
Songbird's wails/cries terrifies the shit outta me.
So creepy.
So creepy.
So you want the game to essentially take place in a different time period altogether, or you wanted 2012 American racism applied to 1912 America. This sounds really broken and weird, racism doesn't need to be passive aggressive or subtle for there to be interpretation or critical thought.
XANDER CAGE
Member
And to a certain extent that makes sense, given that Comstock clearly knows that Booker and Elizabeth are going to jump through tears (he has "prophecies" illustrating as much that you can find), but I am curious as to what that timeline's Elizabeth is up to.
In the Vox timeline Liz was evacuated to another location according Martyr!Booker. She never met Booker. Perhaps Comstock had her locked away somewhere safe? Maybe that's where the flagship was heading? With the Vox hot on his tail, I could Comstock wanting to keep Liz as far away from the danger as possible.
Riposte
Member
Wow, now I'm really confused and think this may be a legit plot hole. Didn't (our) Elizabeth spend 6 months minimum being tortured in a world where Comstock already had an Elizabeth and potentially spent several decades in such a world?
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I really love the connection to the concept of Rosencrantz and Gildenstern Are Dead in the recurring twin characters. If you haven't seen it, here's the famous coin toss scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbInZ5oJ0bc
The joke of this movie/play is that these two guys, bit players in Shakespeare's Hamlet, have zero control over their destiny. They're basically ghosts floating in limbo, waiting to inevitably show up in Hamlet's view and impart wisdom upon him and have no say in their future because they basically have no existence, and the joke of the coin toss always coming up heads is just a symptom of it, unavoidable inevitablilty. What a great reference I never thought I'd see in a vidja game.
The joke of this movie/play is that these two guys, bit players in Shakespeare's Hamlet, have zero control over their destiny. They're basically ghosts floating in limbo, waiting to inevitably show up in Hamlet's view and impart wisdom upon him and have no say in their future because they basically have no existence, and the joke of the coin toss always coming up heads is just a symptom of it, unavoidable inevitablilty. What a great reference I never thought I'd see in a vidja game.
Yeah, it's an odd omission. Maybe we've stumbled upon a plot for one of the DLCs? lol
One of the things I loved about the game most had to be the twins, every time they showed up it came off as crazy, funny, amusing and ridiculous at the same time but their manners and conversations made them so damn charming. I wish they could have been more of them. I thought they were two of the more stand out characters in game.
The one that I hated most? The Boy of Silence, you know the guy with the big ear things near the end of the game. I expect more of him than what we got, he was sort of there. No reason or real purpose. Thought he might be a great boss fight due to the Beast of America trailer, was hardly the case. Was there even a recording on him? Even the Handyman had two or three.
The one that I hated most? The Boy of Silence, you know the guy with the big ear things near the end of the game. I expect more of him than what we got, he was sort of there. No reason or real purpose. Thought he might be a great boss fight due to the Beast of America trailer, was hardly the case. Was there even a recording on him? Even the Handyman had two or three.
DanielJr82
Member
Fucking awesome game. I freggin' loved the ending. I read through the FAQ, great job guys. Nothing new, really, but it's nice to read what's been echoing in my head since I cleared it a couple hours ago. My mind is still in Columbia.
Maybe I missed it... who's Anna's mom then? Lutece, right? Lady Comstock is sterile. But then again so is Comstock. Grr...
Maybe I missed it... who's Anna's mom then? Lutece, right? Lady Comstock is sterile. But then again so is Comstock. Grr...
vas_a_morir
Banned
Whoa... I gotta find video of this. I had no idea!
Quick question
We see throughout the course of the game that Elizabeth can open and go through tears.
When we first see her, she opens a tear to Paris and loses her painting inside it.
What's preventing her from just walking through her self?
Is the siphon somehow preventing her from traveling through this tear?
How is it that she can travel through tears as she's running away from Booker in the Fink area?
We see throughout the course of the game that Elizabeth can open and go through tears.
When we first see her, she opens a tear to Paris and loses her painting inside it.
What's preventing her from just walking through her self?
Is the siphon somehow preventing her from traveling through this tear?
How is it that she can travel through tears as she's running away from Booker in the Fink area?
Neither. Lady Comstock couldn't have Anna with Comstock because he was sterile from exposure to the machine. Lutece only has eyes for her "brother" and has no interest in acts of carnality with Comstock. Anna's mom is just some woman that our Booker knew.
One theory is that it's Lady Comstock from Booker's universe. That's shaky, since we really don't know how Booker met his wife/mother of his child, nor do we really know how Comstock met Lady Comstock, but it does fit in with a lot of the other "parallels" this game has.
There's also a poster that says A. Comstock.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
It does fit since Lady's Comstock first name starts with an A.
It is very possible that Booker named Anna after her mother.
Anyway, I need to know something. It is killing me of curiosity. When you enter to Elizabeth's tower, there are three switches that appear in a room that seem to do something. But I really don't know the combination to them. What do they do? Does it change something? Or is just another plain thing that simply gives you extra gear? TELL ME.
And one thing more, before Songbird searches for Liz and Booker (before the whole "Promise me he won't take me" scene), I liked how it was referenced that Elizabeth is Booker's daughter by putting her hand in Booker's AD-marked hand.
It is very possible that Booker named Anna after her mother.
Anyway, I need to know something. It is killing me of curiosity. When you enter to Elizabeth's tower, there are three switches that appear in a room that seem to do something. But I really don't know the combination to them. What do they do? Does it change something? Or is just another plain thing that simply gives you extra gear? TELL ME.
And one thing more, before Songbird searches for Liz and Booker (before the whole "Promise me he won't take me" scene), I liked how it was referenced that Elizabeth is Booker's daughter by putting her hand in Booker's AD-marked hand.
Tummi Gummi
Member
And technically, old Elizabeth in that dimension is Lady Comstock. "Our Lady" + Anna, and it's no coincidence she ends up looking identical to posters of the real A. Comstock. Whether that's just the writers playing with the concept on a purely figurative level, I don't know.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Blow my mind guys, tell me there's a callback to System Shock 2 because of the infinite universe idea posited here.
vas_a_morir
Banned
And if Booker's wife never gave birth, she wouldn't die during childbirth.
I missed that one. Just beat the game 2 hours ago so I'm still finding things I missed in my playthrough!
If you're talking about the teddy bear, journal, and period blood... i personally think the luteces were reaching into other dimensions and trying to find the identical item relative to elizabeth, or at least they were futzing with the items themselves, reverting them back to a non elizabeth state or something.
as far as i know there is no puzzle there. it's just scientists gonna science.
I feel like i'm missing alot of secret puzzles though, similar to you. for example the book store on the main boardwalk before hall of heroes and first lady airdrome has a single brightly lit bookshelf in the back which just looks conspicuous.
They're machines that time warp the items inside, I think.
I'm pretty sure we saw that poster before Elizabeth change her clothes.
This is the one:
I'm missing the singing girl from Sessler's review and the painting of Abraham Lincoln.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Strange, I looked it up and it looked very, very different from the PS3 version. As if it were from another game. I am gonna have to look it up. Anyway, maybe this is one of these times were doing it in a certain order might achieve something? Like very long combinations?
i wouldn't be surprised ha. there were age numbers too.. i know the diary was 11 and menarche was 13. bear was probably 4 or something. could be some super secret lutece password. that would be epic.
rosaceadude2112
Member
What critical thought can be applied to the cartoonishly evil citizens of Columbia? What does Infinite say about racism other than that people in 1912 were in fact racist. Again, Comstock's historical revisionism is something that can be applied to today and still be relevant. The same can't be said for the handling of racism. As it stands, it's hardly a real theme in the narrative and more like set dressing. Why even bring it up?
I remember seeing that, now. I think I translated it as "See a dress worn by a Comstock herself!" even though that doesn't make a ton of sense, it did to me at the time. I never catch these little things the first time around. That's what you're here for, GAF!
Because not owning up to real racism/bigotry in the United States would be fucking stupid. Why do you think all racism in history was extremely nuanced or complicated? Or rather it has to be explained in that manner?
I imagine you scoffing at Django Unchained because the white people look too evil, but you know, slave owners and such are a lot more complicated than they seem.
Tummi Gummi
Member
That particular costume is made up of Lady Comstock's clothes, from the airship, but she loses/adjusts bits and pieces and much later old Elizabeth ends up looking identical to Lady Comstock in the 1984 scene.
they did do that. The order of the crow is the kkk of Columbia. When you're in their temple right before you go in the garden area, they burn a Chinese guy alive. He says "i just want to go back to my family" then "WHYYYYYYYYY" when he's lit up.
edit: oh nm read your post wrong
rosaceadude2112
Member
Bioshock Infinite is not a historical document. The inclusion of any story element should serve an actual purpose, thematically or otherwise. I feel this element was very undercooked.
And this is not about sympathizing with the racist characters or about them looking too evil. Django was a movie about racist institutions. Bioshock Infinite brings it up and promptly forgets about it.
This seems like a legit plot hole. Isn't there already an Elizabeth being tortured at Comstock House? wtf
njean777
Member
I don't think they forget about it, they just don't set it in the limelight like at the start of the game. It's still there at the end as the vox is the side with the minorities and they are still fighting comstock to the bitter end.
I sort of get what you mean in that they didn't address it much. A lot of those cultural things about Columbia sort of faded towards the end when they started focusing solely on the tears and whatnot.
But I liked it since it...I guess it helped establish that time period for me. I don't know if that's superficial of me, but it helped build up the setting. Same with the working class oppression overtones in the Fink section or even the dislike of foreign white people like the Irish.
With that logic any atmosphere or environment building should be scrapped because it isn't written on a plot summary. Not including racism because it isn't one of the main elements to the plot is daft in every way.
Why do you think Daisy was one of the first and most prominent rebels? The entire uprising wasn't just about equality, it was about how black people and all minorities in Columbia were allured by the idea of going somewhere better than where they were in the United States.
And unlike the mainland of the United States, the number of minorities in Columbia versus the well off white people was stacked against the white people. Every cheap or extremely shitty jobs were given to the extremely poor or minorities, the city runs off the backs of minorities that thought they would have better opportunities.
What happens in Columbia is the exact opposite of what happened during the Civil Rights movement, there were pro violence advocators during the civil rights movement, but a revolution never occurred. Whereas a place like Columbia having many more minorities than whites means violence is a strategy that's both viable and easy to justify.
Reposting for new page.
i'm not sure. with the paris one i believe she is struggling to open it, and struggling to keep it open. i wonder if the first time she steps through one of her own volition it looks easier in body language animation etc. the catch all is just to say the siphon couldn't let her, but yeah it could be a flaw without a sturdy explanation.