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[zkylon]

If any of you are having trouble, here's an incredibly easy way to cheese the Heartbreaker achievement/trophy.

nice.

for some reason I got it after getting killed with the handyman left with like 1 HP. I respawned and he was just hanging out doing nothing, I sniped his heart with the hand cannon and got the achievement.

so basically I think the hit locations reset after you die, so that's another way to cheese him, I think.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Bioshock Infinite is not a historical document. The inclusion of any story element should serve an actual purpose, thematically or otherwise. I feel this element was very undercooked.

And this is not about sympathizing with the racist characters or about them looking too evil. Django was a movie about racist institutions. Bioshock Infinite brings it up and promptly forgets about it.

It's not undercooked, it just wasn't put into the limelight. Bioshock doesn't forget about it, it just treats it as one of the evils in the world.

Same as how religion is treated in the game as well.

Reposting for new page.

Either a plothole or Elizabeth just wasn't strong enough to jump safely through the tear to Paris. Most of the tears in the game was made to the same place, but in a different time or at some other place in a close proximity to where she has been.

 

[rosaceadude2112]

With that logic any atmosphere or environment building should be scrapped because it isn't written on a plot summary. Not including racism because it isn't one of the main elements to the plot is daft in every way.

Why do you think Daisy was one of the first and most prominent rebels? The entire uprising wasn't just about equality, it was about how black people and all minorities in Columbia were allured by the idea of going somewhere better than where they were in the United States.

And unlike the mainland of the United States, the number of minorities in Columbia versus the well off white people was stacked against the white people. Every cheap or extremely shitty job was given to the extremely poor or minorities, the city runs off the backs of minorities that thought they would have better opportunities.

What happens in Columbia is the exact opposite of what happened during the Civil Rights movement, there were pro violence advocators during the civil rights movement, but a revolution never occurred. Whereas a place like Columbia having many more minorities than whites means violence is a strategy that's both viable and easy to justify.

I said thematically yo. That's not the same as plot. And worldbuilding is still a narrative device. Something shouldn't be there just because it might seem practical or realistic, it needs to tie into the themes of the story.

Anyways, lemme try to explain myself a little better and then whatever. So Columbia is an indictment on historical revisionism and using it to fuel nationalism and American exceptionalism. These ideas are presented in the environment rather garishly, to the point that Columbia more often resembles a theme park than an actual city(one of the main enemies is a Hall of Presidents robot). In doing this, its suggesting that the seemingly noble ideals of patriotism and national pride can often be shiny fronts for some real nasty attitudes and prejudices.

This is part of why the portrayal of racism bugs me. By being so front and center, its at odds with that idea. The player is immediately confronted with the hideous reality of the city rather than being given a chance to discover it for themselves. In a city built on the idea of repainting the sins of the past, this seems like sloppy storytelling. If the reveals of Columbia's true nature had been more of a slow burn I feel like the story might have been better overall.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[ReeseHoward]

I think that point of the racism in Columbia wasn't just to show that racism was evil, but that Columbia needed it to justify their having a servant class.

 

[stuminus3]

This seems like a legit plot hole. Isn't there already an Elizabeth being tortured at Comstock House? wtf

I presumed it was that they were quantum leaping into their own selves, Sam Beckett style, and that's why Booker's mind gets all swiss cheesed when he first sees the posters of himself as a hero in Voxworld. But then it turns out Booker and Comstock are the same person, and they exist concurrently, so I have no idea what's up with that. Maybe it's different when Elizabeth makes them jump compared to how Comstock was doing it but as far as I know it's never explained.

 

[Toa TAK]

I think that point of the racism in Columbia wasn't just to show that racism was evil, but that Columbia needed it to justify their having a servant class.

I'm pretty sure this was explained in one of the Voxophones in the beginning of the game. When you enter Monument Island in the janitor's locker.

 

[Alo81]

Either a plothole or Elizabeth just wasn't strong enough to jump safely through the tear to Paris. Most of the tears in the game was made to the same place, but in a different time or at some other place in a close proximity to where she has been.

I really hope theres some kind of explanation because that seems like a fairly obvious plot hole that they must have found. Ahh its gonna bug me if there legitimately isn't an explanation.

 

[zkylon]

Reposting for new page.

the game is pretty inconsistent in the representation of elizabeth's powers but we're led to believe that her ability to manipulate tears grows as she moves away from the siphon.

she can barely control them at her tower (almost gets herself killed trying to take a peek at paris) but later in the game she can like summon tornadoes.

 

[rohlfinator]

the game is pretty inconsistent in the representation of elizabeth's powers but we're led to believe that her ability to manipulate tears grows as she moves away from the siphon.

she can barely control them at her tower (almost gets herself killed trying to take a peek at paris) but later in the game she can like summon tornadoes.

She also has a line about it being harder to create new tears than it is to open a tear that already exists in the world, so that explains why she had a harder time keeping the Paris tear open.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

the game is pretty inconsistent in the representation of elizabeth's powers but we're led to believe that her ability to manipulate tears grows as she moves away from the siphon.

she can barely control them at her tower (almost gets herself killed trying to take a peek at paris) but later in the game she can like summon tornadoes.

In response to your earlier post, I tried for an hour with the hand cannon to get the Heartbreaker trophy. Drove me nuts when I shot his hand accidentally.

Regarding Liz and the tears, I think she always could enter the tears (could have stepped through to Paris if she wanted to) but was just scared, honestly. Both her and Booker do it with Chen Lin because its a matter of life and death and even then, she's scared/ warning Booker that she might not be able to bring them back. She probably didnt want to get stuck alone in Paris with no way to get "home".

 

[DatDude]

The more I think about it... the more I realize that Bioshock Infinite might have might favorite game ending ever.

It really has very little competition

 

[~Kinggi~]

It really has very little competition

Its a solid half hour dedicated solely to telling the story of the ending, done with a lot of production value and cool tech tricks that probably required a lot of time to implement.

Also makes perfect sense why Ken would go out of his way and hype it up in pre-release. At the time i was thinking he was nuts but clearly they put the work in.

 

[Megasoum]

I'm replaying the game and the whole section on the beach gives me big Firefly vibes. The relation between Booker and Liz at that point is very similar to the relation between the captain and River (or even Kylee). You also have the same scene in Firefly where the River is super excited to hear the music and you find her minutes later dancing in the middle of the crowd. I guess Liz is actually very similar to River at that point in the "Young gird excited to see the world for the first time" kind of way.

 

[Salamando]

I'm pretty sure this was explained in one of the Voxophones in the beginning of the game. When you enter Monument Island in the janitor's locker.

There's a voxophone you can pick up right after the Raffle that goes "I told you, Comstock-- you sell 'em paradise, and the customers expect cherubs for every chore! No menials in God's kingdom! Well, I've a man in Georgia who'll lease us as many Negro convicts as you can board! Why, you can say they're simple souls, in penance for rising above their station. Whatever eases your conscience, I suppose."

 

[DatDude]

I said thematically yo. That's not the same as plot. And worldbuilding is still a narrative device. Something shouldn't be there just because it might seem practical or realistic, it needs to tie into the themes of the story.

Anyways, lemme try to explain myself a little better and then whatever. So Columbia is an indictment on historical revisionism and using it to fuel nationalism and American exceptionalism. These ideas are presented in the environment rather garishly, to the point that Columbia more often resembles a theme park than an actual city(one of the main enemies is a Hall of Presidents robot). In doing this, its suggesting that the seemingly noble ideals of patriotism and national pride can often be shiny fronts for some real nasty attitudes and prejudices.

This is part of why the portrayal of racism bugs me. By being so front and center, its at odds with that idea. The player is immediately confronted with the hideous reality of the city rather than being given a chance to discover it for themselves. In a city built on the idea of repainting the sins of the past, this seems like sloppy storytelling. If the reveals of Columbia's true nature had been more of a slow burn I feel like the story might have been better overall.

Hope that makes sense.

Well the way I look at it, it does.

Racism-thematically-represents Booker and his internet struggles. All the chaos that's occurring in the city, all the racism, and what not is a metaphor to Booker and the man he once was.

Think of silent hill, and how the town was a representation of the main character. Same with Columbia, IMO. The violence, the racism, the extremism, all is centered around Booker and the person he was.

 

[Toa TAK]

There's a voxophone you can pick up right after the Raffle that goes "I told you, Comstock-- you sell 'em paradise, and the customers expect cherubs for every chore! No menials in God's kingdom! Well, I've a man in Georgia who'll lease us as many Negro convicts as you can board! Why, you can say they're simple souls, in penance for rising above their station. Whatever eases your conscience, I suppose."

I just picked that one up, too.

The other one just stuck in my mind more for whatever reason. But this Voxophone is all the more terrifying just thinking about it.

 

[DatDude]

I'm replaying the game and the whole section on the beach gives me big Firefly vibes. The relation between Booker and Liz at that point is very similar to the relation between the captain and River (or even Kylee). You also have the same scene in Firefly where the River is super excited to hear the music and you find her minutes later dancing in the middle of the crowd. I guess Liz is actually very similar to River at that point in the "Young gird excited to see the world for the first time" kind of way.

Also, "girls just want to have fun" playing in the background..and if you incorperate it's lyrics:

Some boys take a beautiful girl
And hide her away from the rest of the world
I want to be the one to walk in the sun
Oh girls they want to have fun
Oh girls just want to have fun.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Well the way I look at it, it does.

Racism-thematically-represents Booker and his internet struggles. All the chaos that's occurring in the city, all the racism, and what not is a metaphor to Booker and the man he once was.

Think of silent hill, and how the town was a representation of the main character. Same with Columbia, IMO. The violence, the racism, the extremism, all is centered around Booker and the person he was.

This is a really cool idea, but wait. In this theory, does Columbia actually exist?

 

[Salamando]

This is a really cool idea, but wait. In this theory, does Columbia actually exist?

Not in the remaining timelines

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Not in the remaining timelines

I misread the theory, oops. I thought DatDude literally meant it was all in Booker's mind, like Silent Hill was for James Sunderland.

 

[Korey]

Which part did she do the tornado scene again?

 

[Toa TAK]

Which part did she do the tornado scene again?

Once Booker frees her after being returned to the 1912 timeline from Old Elizabeth.

 

[DatDude]

I misread the theory, oops. I thought DatDude literally meant it was all in Booker's mind, like Silent Hill was for James Sunderland.

I actually had a theory about that, but I fear many people wouldn't like that concept since it would deem alot of the game pointless.

I looked at the Lutece's quote: ""The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..."

An thought, Hmm maybe Columba is something that Booker is trying to create in his head.

 

[rohlfinator]

I actually had a theory about that, but I fear many people wouldn't like that concept since it would deem alot of the game pointless.

I looked at the Lutece's quote: ""The mind of the subject will desperately struggle to create memories where none exist..."

An thought, Hmm maybe Columba is something that Booker is trying to create in his head.

Yeah, I think once you start going down that path, it's impossible to separate what's real and what's imaginary, to the point where the whole thing becomes meaningless.

The ending is pretty clear about where Booker starts creating false memories: when the Luteces pull him into the Comstock timeline, right before the beginning of the game.

 

[DatDude]

The story was pretty decent. I really liked how they explained the similarities between the Bioshock games, and it does a pretty good job toward explaining the similarities between Vigors and Plasmids, between the dual Lighthouse openings and managed to provide yet another commentary on the nature of game design much like the original Bioshock. Thematically, they tied that all together really well.

I did guess a lot of everything well before the end, but I didn't quite grasp the implications of it and how it'd sweep up even the original Bioshock game. So it did surprise me in that sense, as I was pretty sure I had figured everything out well before the end.

Also, regarding the opening post, I still want to see what Ken Levine says about that dying Songbird scream in the original Bioshock. But I'm not altogether disappointed by this videogame's narrative, which is more than I can say about the vast majority of videogames, so they should take pride in that.

you liked bio1 narrative more, or infinites?

 

[Korey]

Just saw this: http://www.gameinformer.com/blogs/e...6/bioshock-infinite-39-s-biggest-mystery.aspx

What's up with the decoys? If they're real versions of Booker from other universes that's kinda sad and mean



Booker #23019 is pretty far on his mission looking to rescue Elizabeth, stop Comstock, and save the world.

*SUMMONED AS A DECOY*

"What the f--- OW AHhhh AHhhhaH WHYYYYYYyyyyyyyYYYYYY"

*dies*

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Just saw this: http://www.gameinformer.com/blogs/e...6/bioshock-infinite-39-s-biggest-mystery.aspx

What's up with the decoys? If they're real versions of Booker from other universes that's kinda sad and mean

Goddamn it i feel bad for a decoy in a videogame now.

 

[LiK]

HMMMM, kinda wish the car for the 1984 billboard was in the shape of the Delorean. heh

 

[zkylon]

what if we were a decoy all along for another booker?

Booker #23019 is pretty far on his mission looking to rescue Elizabeth, stop Comstock, and save the world.

*SUMMONED AS A DECOY*

"What the f--- OW AHhhh AHhhhaH WHYYYYYYyyyyyyyYYYYYY"

*dies*

rofl

 

[bodyofanamerican]

what if we were a decoy all along for another booker?


rofl

BioShock: Dark Souls

 

[NullPointer]

what if we were a decoy all along for another booker?

For a while there I was certain that Booker was going to end up being not much more than Elizabeth's wishful thinking made manifest.

I also got the sense that Booker had attempted this rescue quest on more than one occasion, and I was just playing the latest loop or iteration. While this ended up being true, I was really hoping it would pay dividends on replays, like a new game+ where the world has some subtle and not so subtle differences each time you play through. Would've been nice.

 

[Salamando]

Just saw this: http://www.gameinformer.com/blogs/e...6/bioshock-infinite-39-s-biggest-mystery.aspx

What's up with the decoys? If they're real versions of Booker from other universes that's kinda sad and mean

If they're real versions of Booker, they deserve whatever they get. They could pull out a gun or vigor and help out, but nooo, they're too busy striking a pose.

Really though, think there was one theory that there's a timeline similar to the Vox Martyr timeline where another Booker doesn't show up, so statues are erected in memorium.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Man seeing the ghosts in rapture during my bioshock replay and they sure seem like tears. I know they aren't but the effect and everything is prett close.

 

[kurahador]

Its a solid half hour dedicated solely to telling the story of the ending, done with a lot of production value and cool tech tricks that probably required a lot of time to implement.

Also makes perfect sense why Ken would go out of his way and hype it up in pre-release. At the time i was thinking he was nuts but clearly they put the work in.

Yeah. I wish more games would spend time telling the ending.
Still...Bio1 ending was like what, 45 seconds? lol

 

[Ishmae1]

Yeah. I wish more games would spend time telling the ending.
Still...Bio1 ending was like what, 45 seconds? lol

The real ending point on Bio 1 was meeting Ryan (the rest was just... not needed), and that was oh... 5-8 minutes? Not nearly Infinite level of polish, but still quite good in its own right.

 

[DatDude]

The real ending point on Bio 1 was meeting Ryan (the rest was just... not needed), and that was oh... 5-8 minutes? Not nearly Infinite level of polish, but still quite good in its own right.

That's not even an ending though.

Jack Kills Ryan, fade screen, the end. Would be just as bad as Bioshock 1 real-real ending.

Honestly, I always toyed with this idea that Jack would just stay in Hephustus, become suicidal after all the things he discovered and would just trigger the reactor to hephustus to self destruct, while he would just sit there, staring at the beautiful ocean while "somewhere beyond the sea" would play in the background..you could see the camera pan out to hundreds of splicers trying to get into this [would be] barricaded room..and then it counts down to 5..4...3..2..and sinatra would be at the songs climax of " BEYOND THE SEEAAAAA"..1....BOOOOOOOOOOM.....end screen, roll the credits.

Honestly, that's what they should've done. Added apollo square before hephustus, and maybe some other type of level, and save hephutus for last. Also should've gotten rid of the branching endings. Hate that. Always leads to 1 decent/solid ending, and 3 shitty/ medicore ones.

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

One thing about the ending. Elizabeth tells Booker he spends 20 years in the office hating himself until a man comes back to give him a second chance. After Elizabeth opens the tear for him the twins are there talking about him using old memories to create new ones.

In the after the credit scene, you never actually see Anna. What if its all in his head? Like he sells her and in his torture he just imagines all this, wakes up and the baby is still gone.

Otherwise, 20 years pass and then the twins go back and grab him or so they open a tear much further in the past like right after he gives her up?

 

[StevePharma]

Was it ever explained why Elizabeth (one of them) had a rose in her hair at one point in the game? I vaguely remember it but I forgot why she had it at the time. I believe it was after a Tear jump sequence.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Was it ever explained why Elizabeth (one of them) had a rose in her hair at one point in the game? I vaguely remember it but I forgot why she had it at the time. I believe it was after a Tear jump sequence.

You can see her put it there at one point, I forget when.

 

[beastmode]

ending fight has some lame stuff going on

-only 1 zeplin has people in it
-they don't burn until the moment you leave
-if you leave a zeplin alive enemies infinitely respawn out of a chamber ala CoD

 

[water1111]

Was it ever explained why Elizabeth (one of them) had a rose in her hair at one point in the game? I vaguely remember it but I forgot why she had it at the time. I believe it was after a Tear jump sequence.

when you are entering the hall of heroes, booker opens a panel and bee comes out, Elizabeth opens a tear to let it out, then she gets a rose and quickly close's it when Song bird attacks.

 

[DrForester]

You can see her put it there at one point, I forget when.

When she opens up the rift to get rid of the bee. Then the songbird appears and she quickly closes it. I think it's the elevator up to the hall of heroes.

 

[Jasoneyu]

The only part that kinda erked me was the fact that they stepped through several realities where the vox populi become the dominate force without consider the fact that they are no longer in the reality the started off in. They never seem to mention it and it never becomes a problem since they seem so focused on just getting on that airship. Regardless of the fact that the reality that they now occupy is completely different it every way.

 

[DatDude]

ending fight has some lame stuff going on

-only 1 zeplin has people in it
-they don't burn until the moment you leave
-if you leave a zeplin alive enemies infinitely respawn out of a chamber ala CoD

still an improvement compared to the hulk fountain super sayan boss battle.

 

[televator]

Damn it! I ruin surprises for myself. I put the different world Anna = Liz thing almost as soon as Liz asked who Anna was... I just wasn't sure how it was going to be tied together. Also, as soon as Booker mentioned smothering Comstock, I jokingly said "Just one problem...you are Comstock!!!" I wish I'd stop figuring things out before the twist. >:/

Anyway, I gotta admit that they did a pretty good job of tying things together.

I like the themes and the story, but the combat wasn't really my thing. Too many things to try to grasp and I never really got good at anything. I died a lot.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Just beat it a few hours ago, really enjoyed it throughout. Read nearly every line in the OP the moment I was done. What a fascinating story this game told. I enjoyed every piece of it.

Now with that said, what the FUCK happened to this game?? I just watched that 2010 demo in the OP and was blown away by how different this game turned out. After watching that vid.. I can't help but feel like we got a watered down version of what they really wanted to create. And despite this they still managed to create a pretty fantastic game. But the gameplay in the demo.. wow. It looks so much more fun and interesting.

So, what the hell happened exactly?

 

[kurahador]

Just beat it a few hours ago, really enjoyed it throughout. Read nearly every line in the OP the moment I was done. What a fascinating story this game told. I enjoyed every piece of it.

Now with that said, what the FUCK happened to this game?? I just watched that 2010 demo in the OP and was blown away by how different this game turned out. After watching that vid.. I can't help but feel like we got a watered down version of what they really wanted to create. And despite this they still managed to create a pretty fantastic game. But the gameplay in the demo.. wow. It looks so much more fun and interesting.

So, what the hell happened exactly?

Current gen console limitation perhaps.

 

[Forceatowulf]

Also, can someone tell me why the Twins/Elizabeth aren't affected by rapid aging like Comstock? What am I overlooking here?

 

[Varna]

Also, can someone tell me why the Twins/Elizabeth aren't affected by rapid aging like Comstock? What am I overlooking here?

Elizabeth is special. The twins also have some strange properties because of their near death experience.

 

[BeerSnob]

Also, can someone tell me why the Twins/Elizabeth aren't affected by rapid aging like Comstock? What am I overlooking here?

I think maybe they were young'ish, mid to late twenties, when it started to affect them and then they got stuck in between universes. Comstock is older, late thirties early fourties, when he starts using the machine.

They look mid to late thirties, maybe they're younger than that.