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Bioshock Infinite | Official Spoiler Thread |
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
Those were just a little joke. He didn't die on a battleship, he died while filming the waterfalls at Battleship Bay in Columbia, as you see his camera fall down into the water. A documentarian shooting little movies who then died while shooting one. Nothing more.
They are meant to be like the short films of the time. Moving pictures were a new thing still so a random shot of one object or event would be very exciting to most people as it's something they wouldn't have seen before.
alfredofroylan
Member
Finished the game yesterday. Great game and one of my top 5 games of the year, but I miss several Voxophones, wish they had a screen litke Alice Madness Return, where you can see how many items you miss in each scene (and if there is one I haven't find it)
Other than that, the NY attack doesn't make any sense. The year is 1984, by that time the Air Force'd be able to easily defeat the zeppelines.
Other than that, the NY attack doesn't make any sense. The year is 1984, by that time the Air Force'd be able to easily defeat the zeppelines.
JetBlackPanda
Member
is this real life???
achievement :
Scavenger Hunt
Complete the game in 1999 Mode without purchasing anything from a Dollar Bill vending machine.
achievement :
Scavenger Hunt
Complete the game in 1999 Mode without purchasing anything from a Dollar Bill vending machine.
Yes, someone else mentioned getting it in the other thread.
The One Who Knocks
Member
It's not really as hard as it sounds. You're actually in a better position if you don't use the Dollar Bill vending machines anyway because that way you can spend all of your money on upgrades for both the weapons and Vigors. Ammunition, salt and health is so plentiful, even moreso when Elizabeth manages to thrown a rifle/health pack/salt bottle at you from the other side of the map with perfect accuracy, that you never really need to use them. With certain gear, they become even more redundant. When you die you're better off restarting from a checkpoint to avoid money loss for the same reason that you shouldn't use the Dollar Bill vending machines and, as a result, they become kind of redundant (since by the end of every firefight you'll usually get back full health and salt either through items, Elizabeth or gear).
EDIT: You can pretty much go with a combination of the carbine, sniper, and handcannon throughout the entire game without needing to ever resort to buying anything since they're so plentiful and Elizabeth refills your ammunition when you're low. Before you rescue Elizabeth is the most difficult part. Make sure you focus your infusions on Shield and Salts before you upgrade Health though.
EDIT: Although, one thing you really want to do is to upgrade Chage before the first Lady Comstock fight. It was mentioned here earlier (I think I saw Incendinary mention it first but I'm not certain) but Charge absolutely obliterates her. You can, without difficulty, murder her in about one minute by using charge, shooting her, charging, shooting her and repeating four or five more times. The right gear also really helps. Overkill, Spare the Rod, Brittleskin, Deadly Lunger (useful combined with Vampire's Embrace before you get Charge), Vampire's Embrace, Wintershield (ridiculously overpowered in later sections since you can just keep jumping on and off rails), Burning Halo/Electric Touch (although probably inferior to Spare the Rod) and Blood to Salts are all very, very useful (although, they were only what I used, I know many people prefer alternative gear).
gypsyOtoko
Member
Sorry if this was already covered - but did anyone notice the chalk board in Comstock's cabin upstairs from where he's killed? Did anyone else think that was a way or clue to some "true ending" when they got to the lighthouses upstairs from Rapture?
Yeah, that's crazy. I struggled at times on normal :lol
True, but I just figured they had developed a bunch of crazy defense and weapons technology. Considering all the tech they have in 1912 and with Elizabeth being able to manipulate alternate dimensions. I mean her ability to control the tears could make Columbia practically invincible.
Ah, okay. Sort of figured it was something like that. Nice little touch.
Shake Appeal
Member
I didn't know there was an achievement for not using dollar bill machines, but I'd say I used one about 10 times in total on 1999. As mentioned, they're a horrendous waste of money you could spend on actually useful things.
How would you get past the Ghost battles? Only time I ever bought items. That thing just doesn't die without a million bullets in it.
That was the only real flaw I found in the game, otherwise the pacing is really good.
Melchiah
Member
Do you mean this from the non-spoiler thread?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52868163&postcount=17389
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I love this piece of dialogue:
The One Who Knocks
Member
Sorry, I'd actually editted with that. Incendinary mentioned in the other topic how easy Charge makes the battle and I completely agree with him. If you fully upgrade charge, equip Brittleskin (and the other melee damage gear) and just keep on charging, she goes down incredibly quickly. It was the one fight I was dreading starting the playthrough but it really does make short work of her. By the end of the game in terms of purchasing I'd managed to:
Upgrade Carbine, Sniper (I only upgraded that fully in the final level because there wasn't any point in keeping a spare $1200) and Handcannon fully.
Upgrade Possession, Crows, Charge (only for Lady Comstock battle), Bucking Bronco (this was only the first upgrade and it was only in the final level to burn off money, it wasn't necessary and I didn't use it on the playthrough) and Return to Sender.
So even if you don't meticulously search everywhere in the game there should still be enough money to fully upgrade some Vigors and weapons, and Charge, by the time the battle occurs. You're probably better off searching Downtown Emporia before heading off into the graveyard (this is risky though since I don't think the exploration triggers a checkpoint so you need to make it around the entire place without dying or you'll have to do it again) to get extra money (because Charge makes it so much easier). Oh and also, possess the vending machines through the game so you get extra money (usually it's only like $5 but there is so much Vending Machines that this stacks up by the end) for upgrades. Even if it means waiting until after a battle and using up salt to possess them, it's worth doing (as a result, Possess For Less is incredibly useful and you're better off getting that as soon as it's available).
Others may play it differently but I really did think that the gear is the most significant advantage/disadvantage you have. The only problem is that most of it is random. You can restart a checkpoint to change the gear that's in the box after picking it up but that's really all you can do (and in some parts of the game that means replaying a significant sized portion).
For the Lady Comstock fights though, if you didn't manage to upgrade Charge in time, Sub_Level posted a good strategy here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52221789&postcount=6429
But being prepared for it really does make all the difference.
EDIT: It's worth noting that other weapon combinations I've seen suggested for navigating the game are:
Shotgun + Sniper.
Sniper + Handcannon
Really though, you want at least one of either the Handcannon or Sniper since they're the really high damage weapons.
EDIT: Booker doesn't say this, Elizabeth does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=F-VJ3j2bPJk#t=914s
I concur that this is one of the universes where Booker will accept, Elizabeth directly addresses this.
"You chose to walk away, but in other oceans, you didn't"
This is one of the other oceans (the universes) where Booker will accept. Note the association between "choice" and walking away or accepting.
"Before the choice is made, before you are reborn"
I do think it's a possibility that the choice refers to the name though.
Then
Just finished the game and read the thread so let me see if I got it correct.
- At The Sea of Doors, Elizabeth/Anna explains to Booker that there are millions of possibilities.
- By going through different doors and going to that original baptism after Wounded Knee, Liz/Anna is basically telling Booker that it was the focal point from which everything else stems from.
- In order to prevent Comstock from ever getting Anna, he would have to kill him before anything ever started which ironically was the moment in time when Booker/Comstock decided to either take the Baptism or reject it.
-Anna knew this and knew the only way to stop it was to kill every Booker in every universe to prevent the paradox from happening.
- Without Booker being alive, Anna ceases to exist.
Am I close?
- At The Sea of Doors, Elizabeth/Anna explains to Booker that there are millions of possibilities.
- By going through different doors and going to that original baptism after Wounded Knee, Liz/Anna is basically telling Booker that it was the focal point from which everything else stems from.
- In order to prevent Comstock from ever getting Anna, he would have to kill him before anything ever started which ironically was the moment in time when Booker/Comstock decided to either take the Baptism or reject it.
-Anna knew this and knew the only way to stop it was to kill every Booker in every universe to prevent the paradox from happening.
- Without Booker being alive, Anna ceases to exist.
Am I close?
The only thing I'd note is that there are still other variations of Booker that rejected the baptism or never had the choice to begin with out there. Only Comstock Bookers would feel the consequences of the paradox. That's what I believe the stinger is trying to communicate.
alfredofroylan
Member
The after credits scene points that at least 1 Booker is still alive back at 1893 and maybe Anna is still there.
Ultimadrago
Member
Apologies for the simple question, but maybe I know I'm overlooking something here. Can tears not be seen from both sides? Were folks such as Jeremiah and Albert simply never caught eavesdropping or observing events of the other side from natives of the other side? I imagine it would take many hours of observation to gain the knowledge the duo did to create/plagarize what they did in Columbia.
Is that a real universe or just put there for people to not be so depressed about the ending
It's whatever you want it to be maaaaaaan.
alfredofroylan
Member
Honestly after all the time lines and posibilities I think that the "reality" concept is very vague in the Bioshock Universe.
No one read my post... :/
After watching the ending for the third time, I'm convinced that the Booker that got drowned is only the one who chose to accept baptism.
Notice how Booker arrived at the baptism for the second time during the ending and said, "Wait..this is different." It means that he arrived at his alternate scene of baptism---the "future Comstock" reality.
Liz telling him "Before the choice is made" means before he completed the baptism process. Thus...drowning him.
After watching the ending for the third time, I'm convinced that the Booker that got drowned is only the one who chose to accept baptism.
Notice how Booker arrived at the baptism for the second time during the ending and said, "Wait..this is different." It means that he arrived at his alternate scene of baptism---the "future Comstock" reality.
Liz telling him "Before the choice is made" means before he completed the baptism process. Thus...drowning him.
They can. Songbird spots Liz and Booker through one, and some tears can be used in battle like the automatons and motorized patriots. The information Albert and Jeremiah stole can from other timelines, so the songs would be considered original in their worlds (unless someone knew the truth).
EDIT- To answer the question more directly: yeah, they weren't caught for some bizarre reason.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Okay, I won't if you don't want me to.As you wish.
lol...you edited. I didn't see that the first time.
Btw...I'm taking into account on what happen with the post credit scene, what's with Booker seeming remember the events and all.
The One Who Knocks
Member
This is what the original post is suggesting, especially if you're concurring it's before he accepts the baptism ("before he completed the baptism"). The alternative suggestion is that the choice is to pick the name but it is still the same thing. If you're suggesting she can foresee all Booker's that will eventually accept the baptism though and thus only needs to drown them then I can concur with this (and is the second theory in the original post, but I think this interpretation is also a strong possibility) but it is the same conclusion (in that it still creates a paradox, and it's the paradox that makes the choice a constant).
EDIT:
Although I don't see how it would take into account Booker remembering (aklthough I also don't really agree that Booker remembers in the end, it's a possibility but I don't think it's very likely unless EatChildren's looping time is correct). If we only assume Booker's that will accept drown, Booker's that accept still won't be left with a memory of the game's events.
EDIT: Actually, I think the idea that Elizabeth can see which Booker's will accept, have accepted, and accept, and thus only needs to drown those before they make a choice has a significant amount of merit and is much easier to understand while not contradicting anything shown (preventing any 'accept' timeline by making them a paradox). I think this is a very strong theory, I think I can concur that this is more likely.
EDIT: If that was the case (and I believe this is much more likely now that you've suggested it), the original post would probably be something like:
---
The second theory is almost the exact same as the above but the difference is that only Booker's that accept are drowned by Elizabeth at the end. The same paradox as in the above theory occurs yet it is unneccessary for Elizabeth to murder every Booker. The reason this can occur is that Elizabeth is capable of seeing the entire multiverse's timelines and thus is aware of every single timeline where Booker will accept. As a result, she is capable of drowning every Booker that will accept before he makes the choice to accept. This creates a paradox in universes where Booker will accept (before the choice is made) and thus these timelines are erased from existence, leaving only the timelines where Booker rejects in existence.
---
EDIT: Hmm, I still need to think on this, but I think that makes sense.
Was easy.
masterkajo
Member
The game and its story is rather complex and I can't get it out of my head after I finished it 3 days ago. I am always thinking about stuff and realising things while I should be working...
Anyway, what I do not quite get is the visions Comstock gets from the Archangel. He is told he needs an heir to take over Columbia and attack New York.
Is Comstock just a little bit crazy and imagines these events and is then conviced they are visions and desperately wants them to come true, or can he actually see the future through some tears maybe and then builds towards them?
Anyway, what I do not quite get is the visions Comstock gets from the Archangel. He is told he needs an heir to take over Columbia and attack New York.
Is Comstock just a little bit crazy and imagines these events and is then conviced they are visions and desperately wants them to come true, or can he actually see the future through some tears maybe and then builds towards them?
alfredofroylan
Member
Just for fun, this's the thread with the trailer debut and first impressions:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403862
It's amazing how many people was angry at the game being called Bioshock, now it's pretty clear that the game can be placed anywhere.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403862
It's amazing how many people was angry at the game being called Bioshock, now it's pretty clear that the game can be placed anywhere.
It seems like a mix of all these things. The voxophones make it seem like Comstock genuinely believes he's talking to an angel of some sort. Really, no one explanation is really satisfying.
Ultimadrago
Member
Thanks!
JetBlackPanda
Member
Man I don't know.. I'm doing 1999 right now and grabbing all the Voxs I missed. That achievement will have to wait for a 3rd play.
What an amazing finish to a game. I'm hoping that they do create a third in the storyline series (Bioshock 2 doesn't count.)
After finishing the game, I came up with a great concept for the 3rd in the series that ties all three together. Hear me out:
Your character plays as the scientist in an underground city that discovers ADAM, creates the tech behind big daddies/songbirds/handymen, etc. You discover how to tear open realities at the same time the twins do from Infinite, however you cannot control the tears. ADAM leaks into an ocean tear, Fink spies on your work/steals your work/etc. With the help of the twins, your job is to try and undo the damage you accidently created. You go to Rapture to stop the flow of ADAM, You go to Columbia to stop fink from developing tech, etc, etc. The crazy twist: You find out that Andrew Ryan, Comstock/Booker, and Yourself are the same person.
Its quite unrefined, hell its just a random musing that would make sense with the Man and Lighthouse multiple dimension idea. It'd give the player an excuse to go to three worlds, tie everything up, and ultimately clean all the stories up together.
After finishing the game, I came up with a great concept for the 3rd in the series that ties all three together. Hear me out:
Your character plays as the scientist in an underground city that discovers ADAM, creates the tech behind big daddies/songbirds/handymen, etc. You discover how to tear open realities at the same time the twins do from Infinite, however you cannot control the tears. ADAM leaks into an ocean tear, Fink spies on your work/steals your work/etc. With the help of the twins, your job is to try and undo the damage you accidently created. You go to Rapture to stop the flow of ADAM, You go to Columbia to stop fink from developing tech, etc, etc. The crazy twist: You find out that Andrew Ryan, Comstock/Booker, and Yourself are the same person.
Its quite unrefined, hell its just a random musing that would make sense with the Man and Lighthouse multiple dimension idea. It'd give the player an excuse to go to three worlds, tie everything up, and ultimately clean all the stories up together.
The bolded seems unnecessary to me. We've already got enough to tie things together without adding in more time travel hijinks.
Honestly, we've descended to Hell in Rapture and ascended to Heaven in Columbia, two worlds that mirror each other in some ways, and contrast each other in others. I think it's time for Levine and company to try something altogether new.
I wouldn't mind the BioShock formula carrying over (I.E. extravagant world, shooting, looting, exploring, etc), but the ending of Infinite will be robbed of its impact if there's another game in the series and everyone is constantly speculating, "Multiverse this, multiverse that." It worked in Infinite since it served the greater purpose of allowing us to see the main character in the redemption tale from multiple angles. It wasn't there "just because it's cool."
So, I think for the next game, it might be best for Irrational Games to remove any connections to the Infinite multiverse whatsoever.
I wouldn't mind the BioShock formula carrying over (I.E. extravagant world, shooting, looting, exploring, etc), but the ending of Infinite will be robbed of its impact if there's another game in the series and everyone is constantly speculating, "Multiverse this, multiverse that." It worked in Infinite since it served the greater purpose of allowing us to see the main character in the redemption tale from multiple angles. It wasn't there "just because it's cool."
So, I think for the next game, it might be best for Irrational Games to remove any connections to the Infinite multiverse whatsoever.
Finished the game last night, have a few questions, still trying to piece this together, I just want to say, I preferred the claustrophobic and strategic element of Bioshock 1. The player felt more connected to the city and I love the eerie feel of it, desperation. I also disliked the whole gameplay focused on shooting, I missed the meaningful 1-4 tough encounters in Bioshock 1 that you had to play strategically.
Which brings me to my other complaint, the use of Vigors felt, meaningless, it felt like "here's some cool powers go spam", I preferred the mechanic of mixing and matching your Plasmids to do damage and using your weapon's crafts to supplement it.
I wasn't a fan of the trap system, the combat was so big that enemies rarely triggered them the way you wanted to, the vistas and everything was nice, I just really missed the slow paced build up action of Bioshock 1, also, I felt aside from the very beginning, you hardly get to utilize the rail system in the city.
It was just a loop in pre-set areas you used, I hardly touched it.
I hope Irrational can take feedback and improve upon their next project, aside from those complaints, Infinite is my second favorite game behind Bioshock 1.
Also, a couple questions --
What is the significant of the 3 symbols/founding "Fathers"
Why can't Booker leave a piece of his body part in another universe to access powers?
Also I don't see many people discussing religion and the strong similarities between Christianity, because everyone is too busy trying to piece together the ending.
Also want clarification, Booker sold his child Anna to Comstock to pay of his debts, because in an alternate universe where Booker takes the Baptism he becomes Comstock and discovers the time tearing technology so he orders Rosalind to get a child from his alternate self where he had a kid, correct?
Which brings me to my other complaint, the use of Vigors felt, meaningless, it felt like "here's some cool powers go spam", I preferred the mechanic of mixing and matching your Plasmids to do damage and using your weapon's crafts to supplement it.
I wasn't a fan of the trap system, the combat was so big that enemies rarely triggered them the way you wanted to, the vistas and everything was nice, I just really missed the slow paced build up action of Bioshock 1, also, I felt aside from the very beginning, you hardly get to utilize the rail system in the city.
It was just a loop in pre-set areas you used, I hardly touched it.
I hope Irrational can take feedback and improve upon their next project, aside from those complaints, Infinite is my second favorite game behind Bioshock 1.
Also, a couple questions --
What is the significant of the 3 symbols/founding "Fathers"
Why can't Booker leave a piece of his body part in another universe to access powers?
Also I don't see many people discussing religion and the strong similarities between Christianity, because everyone is too busy trying to piece together the ending.
Also want clarification, Booker sold his child Anna to Comstock to pay of his debts, because in an alternate universe where Booker takes the Baptism he becomes Comstock and discovers the time tearing technology so he orders Rosalind to get a child from his alternate self where he had a kid, correct?
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Damn.
People actually seemed to think that 'Bio' meant water with all those comments.
If you listen to various propaganda around the city, Comstock supposedly received three golden gifts from the Founding Fathers when he was visited by the archangel: A scroll, a sword, and a key. I'm sure they represent different virtues, like wisdom, justice, and redemption (key to the New Eden).
As for Booker deliberately giving himself powers, nobody would attempt this, because nobody fully understands how it happened to Liz. It clearly has something to do with the fact space-time itself severed her; it's not simply the fact part of her was left in one world. It definitely seems tied to the fact that the fabric of space-time did the cutting. But no one would attempt to replicate this. Nobody really understood Liz's powers and they were, in fact, afraid of them.
EDIT: You also asked about why Comstock needed Liz. It's to bring about the future he saw where an Old Elizabeth leads Columbia to destroy the "Sodom Below." The Luteces helped him find an alternate reality where he has a child, and he arranged to take it. Really, from his POV, Comstock probably also thought he was saving his daughter from a sinner version of himself.
Try 1999 mode Karried. The traps are very useful. I would take a minute to lead enemies into them since they have such a sudden effect. Guns sometimes just don't cut it (especially machine guns, burst guns, etc).
As for your questions.
First one is explained very early on. They basically just represent military might, industry and technology for Columbia. Unless you are looking for some other deeper explanation.
For the second. I don't think the characters realize why Elizabeth can do what she can until the very end (if they know at all).
EDIT: Neiteio's explanation on the first is better. Though followers do mention what I posted right when you land.
As for your questions.
First one is explained very early on. They basically just represent military might, industry and technology for Columbia. Unless you are looking for some other deeper explanation.
For the second. I don't think the characters realize why Elizabeth can do what she can until the very end (if they know at all).
EDIT: Neiteio's explanation on the first is better. Though followers do mention what I posted right when you land.
Rosalind (and by extension Robert, I suppose) was the only person to make this connection. I don't think Comstock realizes this is what causes Liz's abilities. Booker can't even remember that he sold his kid, so I doubt he'd think of it.
Besides I imagine that shit hurts, lol.
Gully State
Member
Rather not have everything tied together....just makes things more convoluted.
The One Who Knocks
Member
So, if we assume she drowns Bookers that accept it still leads to the same thing but your work-around as to why it doesn't contradict the ending sounds fine/just as plausible (if not more plausible) to me.
EDIT: Would you mind explaining how Booker would still be able to remember the games events? I don't understand how this would work at all since she's erased its existence surely.
EDIT: Yep, I've just thought further and it's still the second theory, just modified so it doesn't contradict "before the choice is made, before you are reborn".
Hank Scorpio
Member
I finished the game the other day and read the Eurogamer and CVG piece about the game's ending and was satisfied but then kept thinking about it more and just confused myself more. I'm probably just missing something obvious..
But when 'our' Elizabeth drowns Booker with the 'other' Elizabeths. These 'other' Elizabeths comes from different universes... Do they come from only the 'other' universes where Comstock has come to being? And these 'other' Elizabeths are living the same life as 'our' Elizabeth - being conditioned to become Comstock's heir?
Did 'our' Elizabeth go into their universe through a tear, explain things to them, and get them to be like 'lol we gotta kill this guy who is actually our father to stop a huge event but we'll die too'.
I mean, are we to take that 'our' Elizabeth checked all the other universes where Booker chooses baptism, and becomes Comstock, and then goes back one by one and drowns each Booker, them allowing it willingly.
Ugh, halp me guize.
But when 'our' Elizabeth drowns Booker with the 'other' Elizabeths. These 'other' Elizabeths comes from different universes... Do they come from only the 'other' universes where Comstock has come to being? And these 'other' Elizabeths are living the same life as 'our' Elizabeth - being conditioned to become Comstock's heir?
Did 'our' Elizabeth go into their universe through a tear, explain things to them, and get them to be like 'lol we gotta kill this guy who is actually our father to stop a huge event but we'll die too'.
I mean, are we to take that 'our' Elizabeth checked all the other universes where Booker chooses baptism, and becomes Comstock, and then goes back one by one and drowns each Booker, them allowing it willingly.
Ugh, halp me guize.
My speculation about what Infinite means is pretty terrible looking back.
For one, "our" Elizabeth was not present at the drowning. Watch the choker.
For another, the idea is that Booker going to the Baptism is a constant--a fixed point. There is no divergence from that. The divergence happens from doing it or not. So, therefore, she kills him before he chooses. Before the divergence. She stops all splits from happening by cutting it at the root.
For another, the idea is that Booker going to the Baptism is a constant--a fixed point. There is no divergence from that. The divergence happens from doing it or not. So, therefore, she kills him before he chooses. Before the divergence. She stops all splits from happening by cutting it at the root.
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
Why does Elizabeth attack New York when she grows up? I guess this is Comstock's plan and that's why he needs an heir to fulfill his legacy. But why does he hate New York so much?
@Hank Scorpio
Honestly, I just took that last scene a representation of all the times/universes were Booker choose the baptism (thus becoming Comstock). All of them in different clothing just represents the variables that all lead to the same place.
@Ludicrous Speed
It seems like the plan is to just destroy the USA entirely. He clearly hates what it is becoming and he believes he is doing Gods work.
Honestly, I just took that last scene a representation of all the times/universes were Booker choose the baptism (thus becoming Comstock). All of them in different clothing just represents the variables that all lead to the same place.
@Ludicrous Speed
It seems like the plan is to just destroy the USA entirely. He clearly hates what it is becoming and he believes he is doing Gods work.
The Star Wars scene made it, it's when you first see Elizabeth, well, the second time I think, but in the tower.
No horse.