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Bioshock Infinite |OT| No Gods, Kings, or Irrational Games
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
Badass alert, men and women to their stations, WEE-OOO WEE-OOO WEE-OO
MuddyDonut
Member
But that's not what he's saying
Raitosaito
Member
After playing about an hour of it I can safely say that no amount of "life" in the world will make this an experience people who didn't like Bioshock change their minds about this type of game.
This is not an insult to the game because I am having an immensely great time, and it is the natural evolution Bioshock and the innovations are great, but they are an addition to the Shock formula which in the end is not going to bring anyone over.
Also I am not sure how I made this sound so negative when I am loving it...
I'm playing on hard, but I'll do a 1999 run soon.
Performance wise on the 360 is kind of a tossup. Screentearing was a problem in the beginning a lot, my friend got a PS3 copy so I'll go see how that holds up if I have the time tomorrow.
This is not an insult to the game because I am having an immensely great time, and it is the natural evolution Bioshock and the innovations are great, but they are an addition to the Shock formula which in the end is not going to bring anyone over.
Also I am not sure how I made this sound so negative when I am loving it...
I'm playing on hard, but I'll do a 1999 run soon.
Performance wise on the 360 is kind of a tossup. Screentearing was a problem in the beginning a lot, my friend got a PS3 copy so I'll go see how that holds up if I have the time tomorrow.
Spin: People who love the Shock series will generally love this?
The Librarian
Banned
Making a game more accessible by stripping some deeper functions is not what I was talking about.
Raitosaito
Member
Yep. Details galore, you'll spend time looking at every little thing and all the general Shock type looting.
LOOT IT ALL!
Coins are in the weirdest places as always.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I think all Derrick is trying to say is that designing a game with max difficulty in mind and half assing an easy mode is not the same as designing a game easy enough for a lowest common denominator and half assing a hard mode.
Nice. Is the world bigger than Bioshock or about the same?
The Librarian
Banned
It's hard to say what is what without looking at the game's mechanics. Halo's combat is easy to learn and hard to master, and at least in the original trilogy, everything flows naturally from its core mechanics. A game being easy or hard is no indication of how "deep" it is.
Nor is its accessibility.
Raitosaito
Member
Spaces seem generally bigger, but it might actually be because there is more stuff going on in them.
Don't want to spoil it but yeah.
Right. Generally the people most AAA games are shooting for now are not people who care much about the things we do, so why not just tack on a properly designed dumbed down mode for them and give us the kind of stuff we used to get on the other modes? Like in this series' case it would be System Shock as an example. Design the entire game around that kind of game and then slap the derp mode on as the Easy difficulty.
If I had to deal with a popup at the start of every single game I played that asked me if I wanted to play on easy mode to make sure that I got the game I'm looking for and casuals could still run around shooting shit and not caring about anything then I would gladly put up with that and just hit no. Instead all we get now are games designed for easy mode on every difficulty basically and the only difference between them is damage modifiers or increased loot drops.
Nah that's perfect. Thanks.
Halo is typically an outlier in that regard, and it shows considering how many praise the combat on Legendary. Look at Call of Duty Veteran for a harsh opposite, where the AI just get autoaim and damage cranked up and rain grenades from the sky. This is much easier to do and thus is the more common one.
Halo is a dumbed down tribes.
I think you need to go play stalker. Stop putting it off.
The Librarian
Banned
But I don't understand how all of this relates to Ken wanting to make easy difficulty so easy his grandmother can play it.
Expecting Bioshock is best since Bioshock is in the title.
I'm just kind of speaking to the industry as a whole here. I'm well aware this is just more Bioshock (but hopefully a LOT better than 1).
The Librarian
Banned
How so? I looked up Tribes on Wikipedia and it said it's a vehicle simulation game. And that's not what Halo is.
bodyofanamerican
Member
He's saying that in order to make it THAT easy, the basic design of the game has to make that possible. Deep RPG elements have to be stripped out, in something like SS2's case for example. Instead of making those kind of systems available on harder difficulties, they're just eliminated completely to make the easy mode possible.
That sums up why you dont understand what Derrick is getting at. You need to do more research. Watch some videos.
You realize that the series would still be called System Shock if they had the rights for it? That Minerva's Den has hints to them taking place in the same universe? That 1999 mode is clearly referring to System Shock 2?
Vire
Member
By the way, does System Shock still hold up? I only played SS2.
Highly doubt it.
It's a different franchise with different core themes. The system shock name had very little weight as it was, calling Bioshock - System Shock 3 would have hurt its sales actually.
Highly doubt it.
It's a different franchise with different core themes. The system shock name had very little weight as it was, calling Bioshock - System Shock 3 would have hurt its sales actually.
The Librarian
Banned
But why? Just make the enemies deal out little damage and make them very inaccurate.
The Librarian
Banned
bodyofanamerican
Member
Well, yeah. They COULD do that, but they don't. Devs think the deeper stuff affects accessibility at a core game design level, and rather than confusing casuals and grandma with a stat management system they'll never touch, they just don't even put that stuff in.
Oh God me too. I've been skimming this thread looking for "IT'S UNLOCKED EARLY ON STEAM BECAUSE OF CONSOLE STREET DATE BREAKING." and I've read that the opening is as good as HL's opening and then someone else said that the game is good but not great.
I just want to play it!
ThaiGrocer
Member
Disappointingly, no. This is what I based some of my purchase decision on, but sadly battles of this scale are NEVER in any part of the game (performance on console? confusing in play testing?). I'm sorry to give you the bad news.
It really doesn't. It was more like Unreal Tournament with jetpacks.
The Librarian
Banned
But how do we know Ken and the team didn't do that? What if they started out with a set of design principles for BioShock and just made the enemies less accurate and do less damage? That's what Ken meant when he said that. He wanted a difficulty so easy his grandmother could play. Not a game.
bodyofanamerican
Member
Haven't played the final game but to be fair, I've watched this video a shitload of times and STILL can't follow where the fuck Booker is going and how he knows where to go to end up on the zeppelin.
That's what I'm saying basically and the source of my frustration. I don't understand why devs don't just do that and keep the core game on normal, hard/very hard modes. Instead they design the entire game from the start around what Easy mode would be in games like Deus Ex 1, SS2, etc.
Dax01 said:
I'm willing to put money down on the core game not being anything near SS2 quality in design and complexity. Not including 1999 mode here since that can't change things like level design.
Yea man. My other problem is gaming fatigue though. I feel like I'll be super disappointed since I won't be in the mood for gaming which will make the experience shittier.
ThaiGrocer
Member
There's a clue there...
The Librarian
Banned
But that's not what Ken meant by what I posted.
Game originally took place on a space station. Devs have talked about how it was just System Shock 3 with a different name for quite a while.
Imagine if the derp in Crysis started with 1 instead of 2. "It's not Far Cry everyone!" is what you are saying.
Vire
Member
Right it originally started as that, but its pretty clear they went into a different direction with Bioshock.
I actually like Bioshock more than System Shock 2, but that's just me.
Krappadizzle
Member
Can someone point me to a website that has Bioshock 2 PC fixes? I found a hardocp page but it is a bit outdated.
The Librarian
Banned
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Deep mechanics are utterly wasted without complementary content. This is something that has bugged me for years - we have games with 75 different abilities and thousands of possible ways to use them and not a single one feels like they really fit.
SMB3 feels perfect with 2 buttons and a few powerups because the whole game is built precisely with them in mind. Now we have games that don't even bother thinking about the emergent qualities of their systems and who would rather distract you with dozens of impractical or functionally identical options, and then they get to the actual content almost as an afterthought.
You get left with games that feel like a glued together jigsaw puzzle.
I guess this is kind of an irrelevant tangent in of itself though.
Imagine if Halo had jetpacks, bases with things such as generators, and was much faster paced. That is tribes. Halo is the slower more simplifed form of Tribes for consoles. Even though tribes did come to consoles iirc.
Vire
Member
Halo 4?
The Librarian
Banned
But that's not what Halo is about.
This is one of my problems with Halo 4. The AAs in campaign feel like they don't fit at all.