RoninChaos
Member
What difficulty should i start on? I like a challenge, but don't want to die 300 times to some shit I can't even see. Suggestions?
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Bioshock Infinite |OT| No Gods, Kings, or Irrational Games
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
Incendiary
Banned
Hard is manageable, although there will be some challenging parts. If you want a more relaxing experience choose Normal, but the game's definitely meant to be played on Hard I think (and I don't normally ever say things like that). And whatever you do, don't start with 1999 mode.
People will hate me for that, but I'm actually enjoying the combat a lot more than the story so far, even though it is interesting.
If only the game had better encounters letting you approach them in several different ways and more creative rail designs it would've been godlike.
I hope they make some DLC levels only for combat, with level design made just to enhance it, not worrying about the story.
If only the game had better encounters letting you approach them in several different ways and more creative rail designs it would've been godlike.
I hope they make some DLC levels only for combat, with level design made just to enhance it, not worrying about the story.
I don't think it's a "backlash" so much as it is the result of more people finishing the game--which means there will be a greater variety of opinions. Not to mention the fact that very early on quite a few of us had major reservations (myself included). But with very few exceptions, even the people who find major flaws in the game still find it a fun game (again, myself included).
Nothing to be ashamed of. I enjoyed the game, but I also think the treatment of its big themes is seriously problematic. I'm glad that my early sense that the big issues (racism, nationalism, exceptionalism, etc.) get turned into mere "set dressing" has now been recognized by others, and at some big outlets. That doesn't make it a bad game, nor does it make it an especially good one. It makes it into something far more important: it is interesting.
I don't know if there is any spoilers in this thread so I didn't read anything lol. But I've been hyped for this since it was announced all them years ago. After a while info became scarce and it dropped off my radar. Now my hype is of the charts but I didn't buy it at launch due to my backlog. However I've just purchased the premium pack for under £40 so I guess I'll be playing this soon!
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Hard was just about right for me. Challenging enough that I needed to to pretty good with my arsenal of weapons, vigors, tears, and skyrails, but not so much that enemies take a hundred shots and you're health is drain after a few shots of hitscan attacks from God-knows-where
Its a real testament to how strong the opening sections and plot twist in Bioshock 1 are that six years later people seem to have completely forgotten that the entire last half/third of the game is just Fontaine spewing insults at you in visually bland areas while you chase after him. Its like the personality of the game died with Ryan. I personally feel like Bioshock holds up even less under some of the scrutiny given to Infinite.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I never took Fontaine seriously...that damn New Yorker accent of his was downright parody
I haven't been participating in this thread a whole lot because I have been too busy enjoying games.
Has GAF crossed the hipster threshold and started hating what everyone else likes about the game? Last few pages seem to indicate yes?
When I finally finish my third play through (this last one on 1999 mode and to rap up the last few achievements) I will contribute to the thread more actively.
It's crazy watching the thread transform into a Statler and Waldorf bit.
One complaint I read that I don't understand is about the randomized gear drops. As I said on my third play through I find it keeps things more interesting, causing me to adapt my playing strategies rather than finding one that works and just railing through for achievements.
I've played through the first completion on hard utilizing a mix of everything and really just toying around with the mechanics to see what I found to be the most gratifying combinations to stick with. The thing is, I found that to be the most gratifying aspect of the game play - being able to experiment with the various abilities in incredibly variable ways depending on the type of enemies you were dealing with at any given moment. The randomized gear encourages that.
I could have fallen back on the first thing that worked, but the mechanics encouraged me to experiment in these really brutal satisfying ways.
That says a lot about a FPS game.
That's all for now. This
and I need to get back to it.
Has GAF crossed the hipster threshold and started hating what everyone else likes about the game? Last few pages seem to indicate yes?
When I finally finish my third play through (this last one on 1999 mode and to rap up the last few achievements) I will contribute to the thread more actively.
It's crazy watching the thread transform into a Statler and Waldorf bit.
One complaint I read that I don't understand is about the randomized gear drops. As I said on my third play through I find it keeps things more interesting, causing me to adapt my playing strategies rather than finding one that works and just railing through for achievements.
I've played through the first completion on hard utilizing a mix of everything and really just toying around with the mechanics to see what I found to be the most gratifying combinations to stick with. The thing is, I found that to be the most gratifying aspect of the game play - being able to experiment with the various abilities in incredibly variable ways depending on the type of enemies you were dealing with at any given moment. The randomized gear encourages that.
I could have fallen back on the first thing that worked, but the mechanics encouraged me to experiment in these really brutal satisfying ways.
That says a lot about a FPS game.
That's all for now. This
third Lady Comstock fight is causing me to rethink my approach
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Not yet Cystm! But I'm waiting too. Some valid criticism has surfaced but we'll see if it turns into a "Ken Levine sucks as a writer" a la Nolan (which I disagree with... Mostly [and I mean Nolan, not Ken. He's awesome]). Lets hope not!
All the cool kids get the blood to salt gear except me
And it'll stay that way foreverrrrrrr.
I wish this had a better collectables system. It needs a chapter thing like what uncharted does that lists out how many voxophones and stuff are there, and how many you found. It's a step in the right direction that it seems to still keep the tally of how many you found overall, but I don't know which ones I missed, so now I've got to find them all again.
Charge!
Charge!
If someone were to hate Infinite just because it was popular, it would be almost as dishonest as ignoring valid criticism by attributing it to false motives.
Reveals and plot twists require a certain amount of logical consistency to work. But above that, they require a certain amount of honesty on behalf of the author. A plot twist which doesn't work, is flat out denied, or only works based on a very specific set of unlikely circumstances or worse, coincidences, is dishonest.
Since this isn't the spoiler thread, I won't go into much detail, but the ending had several reveals and plot twists which didn't work. Even when they do hold up to scrutiny (which most didn't), the game spent so much time trying to convince us that something wasn't true that when it is revealed, it feels like we were flat out lied to in order to preserve the surprise. It's like telling someone you aren't throwing them a birthday party so that they'll be surprised when you throw them a birthday party. That works for birthday parties. It doesn't work for fiction (people are still butthurt about Agatha Christie's unreliable narrators).
The best way I can describe it is that it is like the ending to Lost. The writers of Lost created this hugely emotional catharsis, but it wasn't earned. The characters did not deserve the reward - not that the reward was equal to what the characters experienced on the island. Ultimately, the ending rang hollow, but a lot of people loved it because they got caught up in that emotional outpouring and who cares if it works intellectually if it feels so right emotionally?
I disagree, but mainly I think Rapture is such an infinitely more interesting place than Columbia. After Infinite, I started playing Bioshock 2 and found more varied environments with greater detail and care put into them during the first 30 minutes than the entirety of Infinite. And the combat is more varied as well, as I hack security bots, fling explosive canisters with telekinesis, shock flooded floors, set rivet traps, and use a variety of different ammo types.
I think time and hindsight will not be kind to the game.
I think Levine will have a lot more "leeway"
Writing narratives in the video game medium is the hardest thing to do, and probably 95% of the developers who write these narratives don't even bother, or fuck it up and make it equivalent to that of a middle school student short story.
Levine is obviously talented, and say what you want about the "loose" themes like racism and whatnot, Levine still managed to create a gripping tale about Booker and Elizabeth like none other, and managed to deal with complex themes that are very easy to fuck up.
The fact that there are no plot holes whatsoever in the narrative is a big testament to how great of a writer he is, compared to say like that of Kojima, who could write similar mind blowing plot twists and revelations, but never have that neat "bow" that nicely wraps everything together.
I actually look forward to what Levine does next. He took a risk with Infinite. He dealt with themes (regardless of how well he handled them) that are practically ignored in this medium, and tried to portray these themes with maturity and respect in an adult fashion. For better of for worse, he tried to do new things, and tried to grow as a writer. I applaud him for that.
I don't understand a thing you're saying. An honestly feels like your scrutinizing this game to unbelievable depths.
It also could be because I loved Lost, so I'm not sure where you're coming from either.
Why?
-Beautiful art direction
-Stunning and Beautiful Environment/Atmosphere
-Solid gameplay overall, if not fun at times (thanks in large part due to the skyrails)
-Great narrative
-Awesome ending
-Great music
I mean, I can go down the list.
I mean, I understand not liking the narrative, and not really gelling with comstock, or columbia, or the vox poppuli. But, honestly, it feels that you just didn't simply like Infinite that much, which is completely fine.
But it baffles me when you say hindsight will not be kind to this game, when it did HELLA lot of things right, with a few missteps along the way.
You were probably singing praises similar to this when Bioshock 1 came out, and now you've been making multiple posts breaking down a lot of stuff you don't seem to think work. Time is crucial to effective judgement, as many games lose their luster after the initial hype wave goes away. Not to say something like "this game is bad and you should feel bad for liking it" or anything that crazy, if you love it that's fine, if you love it in 5 years that's fine too. But I do agree with Sqorgar, and can see Infinite being another game down the road that will get LTTP threads that become hijacked with negativity while other people group all of gaf together as a bunch of haters instead of realizing there is a lot within the game that doesn't work for many people for multiple reasons.
Hell, look at your Fort Frolic post. It's hard to do, but try to think back to 07 or whatever when you first played Bioshock 1. Experiencing everything for the first time and taking it all in, could you have ever imagined 6 years later calling the entire area, generally the highlight of the game, pointless?
UltimaPooh
Member
That's just the nature of the beast.
When people come away pleased by the game some of them are satisfied with it and move along others it just erodes because now they need the next best thing or it didn't live up to their expectations and don't look at what the game sets out to accomplish in and of itself.
I believe will all honesty that I will love this game 5 years from now. If games happen to become more of an art form (lulz) then I will view this as the turning point and the original Bioshock being the stepping stones.
But negativity of what?
What does the game do that's INCREDIBLY awful?
The combat?
The narrative?
I mean, I see that there are flaws. I'm not giving blind praise. I enjoy hearing critiques, and constructive criticism from other players.
But alot of this, "BAH, Infinite is shit. It won't be remembered fondly" Just seems as bad as the hyperbole of people who go "INFINITE IS DA BEST GAME IN DA WORLD. 5/5 STARZ FO YOUUUU!!!!!"
Sure, and that's fine with me. Gaming in particular has a lot of oddities with reception and critical thought, as the core gameplay can be overshadowed by any number of aspects. I'm certainly guilty of it as well, given how much I enjoyed Skyrim even if I can fully see why many people would hate it and could write a damn book on the incredible amount of flaws the game has.
Negativity seeping in all aspects, even if it isn't some extreme of saying AWFUL AWFUL SHIT WTF, atleast to me. Infinite has small niggling issues all over the place that kept detracting from the game to me. I wanted to get into the world, but the wax figuring NPCs that say 2 lines and stare at you took me out of it every time. The plot direction during the whole Vox thing just completely lost my interest, as the leap in logic was so videogamey it felt like I was leashed to just kite to these areas they had no other idea of how to get me to, even if the segment itself introduced an important story point. Pacing in general was all over the place, and the actual gameplay takes far too long to ramp up to the point where you finally get elizabeth, tears, larger skyrails, and vigors you are basically halfway in the game. While the combat itself at its best is a lot of fun, but it's rarely at that. More often are you on ground level clearing rooms compared to grinding through the sky, and that's a shame. Hitscan weapons mixed with these larger encounters had potential to get confusing as well, and the death 'punishment' is still a pretty dumb idea in the way battles can't be reset to allow the player another chance to tackle it from another angle. That angle of approach partially dictated by dice roll gear, which has no place in this game.
That said, I don't dislike infinite. I had fun with it and can certainly see why it appeals so well to many people. I do love the art design, the music, etc. It just didn't do much more than that for me--simply another game that I had a decent time with for a few days, tried to replay it and got bored so I stopped. Down the road I will give it another shot(along with the other Bioshock games), and maybe I'll see it differently.
Wait, you never even finished the game? Wut?
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
If you've completed the game and haven't already seen my music video, you can check it out at:
http://youtu.be/t65CQUp-1fc
It covers the travels of Booker and Elizabeth through Columbia as a tribute to the team at Irrational. Let me know what you think.
I had to play through some sections of the game for the third time to record some of the footage used and I can't think of anything else I want to play at the moment. The gameplay and loot collecting really click with me. The themes, locations, story and characters are all just icing on the cake. It's been over a week since I've finished the game for the second time and my appreciation for it hasn't diminished an iota. Such an amazing game. Once I've finished Bioshock 2, I think I'll be starting up my next play through of the game.
Has anyone else started reading The Devil in the White City? It's mentioned in the wiki for the Infinite as part of the inspiration for the game. I'm about half way through and it's really great. Well worth picking up.
http://youtu.be/t65CQUp-1fc
It covers the travels of Booker and Elizabeth through Columbia as a tribute to the team at Irrational. Let me know what you think.
I had to play through some sections of the game for the third time to record some of the footage used and I can't think of anything else I want to play at the moment. The gameplay and loot collecting really click with me. The themes, locations, story and characters are all just icing on the cake. It's been over a week since I've finished the game for the second time and my appreciation for it hasn't diminished an iota. Such an amazing game. Once I've finished Bioshock 2, I think I'll be starting up my next play through of the game.
Has anyone else started reading The Devil in the White City? It's mentioned in the wiki for the Infinite as part of the inspiration for the game. I'm about half way through and it's really great. Well worth picking up.
AgentOtaku
Member
So did Shawn Elliot really have a hand in the level design?
I feel like honestly THAT portion of the game hasn't gotten enough credit. It's really Fckin' good. It especially sticks out to you when you play in 1999 mode and the navigator is disabled.
Seriously, this game has wonderful level design that feels natural but also fun to play in on higher difficulties and when you know what you're doing.
I feel like Bioshock Infinite is fast becoming my next Resident Evil 5 as far as replayability.
I feel like honestly THAT portion of the game hasn't gotten enough credit. It's really Fckin' good. It especially sticks out to you when you play in 1999 mode and the navigator is disabled.
Seriously, this game has wonderful level design that feels natural but also fun to play in on higher difficulties and when you know what you're doing.
I feel like Bioshock Infinite is fast becoming my next Resident Evil 5 as far as replayability.
AgentOtaku
Member
I'm really bad at shooters. Almost always go negative online. Still, I'm having no trouble with 1999 mode on the first try. There's a few challenging parts but nothing impossible. There was one part early on that I died over and over playing but it just enabled me to learn to play better.
hard feels pretty fair. game keeps you constantly supplied.
Wow finished it on 360, was playing it on hard and although i died a few times i felt it was a nice balance till one of the later parts, the framerate seemed to drop off the face of the earth it made it almost impossible for me. I had to knock it down to normal to finish that fight which was a bit of a pisser.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Finally finished it. God, the ending was the definition of mind blowing. So many surprises, so many revelations.
WrenchNinja
Member
None of what he says is going to change if he finished the game. The combat doesnt drastically change from those early areas and the Fink and gunsmith stuff is still really fetch questy/filler-y.
I'm planning to pick it up!
Also, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead were also something that inspired Levine (like the heads/tails scene for instance), among other things I bet.
Also incredible video! Well done!
such an amazing video ! fantastic job ! will post it on my Facebook page and Tweet it if you don't mind. I love 80's music and I love Bioshock Infinite, the video is done with so much care, thanks !
RedAssedApe
Banned
After finishing Dead Space 3 and then starting up this game I really really hate checkpoint saves. Ugh...
Discotheque
Banned
that's the last battle in the game.
Argh, so close!
1. Find a voxophone guide online, there are many good ones.
2. Load up a late save/chapter in your game
3. Go through your voxophone list and compare to the guide
4. When you find what voxophone(s) you're missing, load that chapter and grab it.
That's what I did, had missed like 3 throughout the game. Took 15 minutes maybe.
Only the infusions are annoying, I missed 1 and have to grab them all on the next playthrough.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks! I'd highly recommend the book. It reads like a piece of fiction and I have to keep reminding myself that it all actually happened. It was an amazing time period. I can see how the novel could have inspired Levine to come up with some of the core ideas behind Columbia.
Fun fact: the mayor of Chicago during the period was named DeWitt.
Thanks for very kind complement. Feel free to share! I put a lot of time into doing it, so it'd make me happy if any of the fellow Bioshock and Irrational fan base got some entertainment value from it.
The Librarian
Banned
The game doesn't lie to you.
There's more variety in what you can do, sure, (though you can do most of that), but there's more variety in Infinite when it comes to enemies.
lol. Going through the whole game on Normal. Really enjoying the combat! Here's the guide I'm doing: http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2013/03/27/bioshock-infinite-voxophones-locations-guide.htm
The Librarian
Banned
Yup! Haven't written final impressions (haven't had time), but I can PM you the link to the post when I make it.
Might be in a massive minority here, so don't shoot me down but after an hour or so with the game, the combat is the worst part. After roaming the streets and see all the things going on, as soon as the combat kicks in it just feels like another shooter. Part of me wishes that they had gone for an RPG or Adventure instead of a shooter. Will keep playing though to see how I get on but the shooting part is doing nothing for me.
Sure. I'm surprised this thread still has so much movement at this point.Yup! Haven't written final impressions (haven't had time), but I can PM you the link to the post when I make it.
Have you guys watched Lapslappin's videos? His Far Cry 3 videos were incredible, and his Bioshock Infinite videos are also pretty good:
Vigor Test 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w81QmjRamts
Vigor Test 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIHwJgoOd4
Rail Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNdv42-dytg
May contain spoilers depending on what you consider a spoiler. No cutscenes though, only combat.
Vigor Test 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w81QmjRamts
Vigor Test 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRIHwJgoOd4
Rail Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNdv42-dytg
May contain spoilers depending on what you consider a spoiler. No cutscenes though, only combat.