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Black Lives Matter shuts down a Bernie Sanders rally

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HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Fuck respectability politics, what we need is to find some way to splice us black folk with lions. Then white folk will give a shit about us and we'll probably get some bitchin' superpowers out of the ordeal.

It's win/win.

Did you see what whites have done to lions? Not the best splice IMO.
 

watershed

Banned
i don't see it as a binary, rather a continuum, and if BLM, or people acting in their stead continue to posit it as ALL OR NOTHING they're undeniably going to struggle getting their message across.

I didn't mean to phrase it as a binary but there has consistently been this tension in liberal America. A lot of people have never experienced or had to confront the complexity of these issues. The fact is, policing is deeply unfair and reflective of conditions throughout society. I think most liberals live in such a way that they can be largely ignorant of the deeply ingrained racial prejudices alive today and BLM is exposing this. I can't tell you how many "liberals" I've seen say we are talking about policing too much or get angry at BLM because they find them angry or abrasive.
 
Yes.

But you misunderstood in the first place. You're saying - it will make the black community look more aggressive. Who sees two people protesting and then associates them with the 'black community'? That's right, racists! So who cares if it makes black people seem more aggressive in the eyes of racists? They'll find whatever they want to justify their views either way, it doesn't matter.

That's always been a thing actually ...

May be but I'm proud to be black and I've seen with my own eyes how black people are made out to be aggressive in almost anything they do.

Them storming that stage like that is not the way and yes it reflects on the community as a whole, because this clip is going to be repeated time and time again to fit some ones agenda.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
Surprised this wasn't a thread bump. There definitely is a lot of deja vu going on in this thread, right down to Bernie leaving the stage:



This didn't help him the first time, why do it a second time? Now this could become a "thing" at his protests. Just respond to them like every other politician/public figure/entertainer does with protestors and hecklers either with facts answering their questions or a Obama style witty quip that gets the public around you, get it on video/social media, and help it spread so this doesn't happen again. You don't stop speaking and walk off the stage for an interruption when you're trying to hold the highest office in the US.

Obama probably would have just gotten security to escort them out.
 
That is a wide disconnect from black issues.

Not really.

So much of this debate revolves around fighting over symptoms instead of addressing the underlining problem. Police killing black people is not the major issue of the community, or the biggest problem. I'd argue it's less of a problem than an expected end result of the socioeconomic conditions. If you redline a neighborhood, dumb a bunch of people there, depress the economic system over time as middle class jobs disappear, flood the area with drugs...you're going to get a dangerous, ugly neighborhood that requires more aggressive policing than you'd need in a suburb.

Obviously not every black person in the country is living in bad conditions - these conversations tend to ignore the black middle class - but most of the biggest cases of police brutality happen in high crime areas. Ghettos that have been systematically created.

The question should be how do you fix those areas. If the conditions on the ground improve - better schools to keep kids focused, jobs to increase the tax base, etc - there would be less drugs and less police. For all the talk about liberal policies not helping black people, we've never seen that type of liberal policy in effect on a macro level. Perhaps it's not feasible; after all, those low education working class jobs (manufacturing) aren't coming back anytime soon.
 

Slayven

Member
He probably would've gotten there a lot sooner if he projected aggression like these misguided individuals.

Gandhi, from who MLK drew inspiration, was also murdered. Are you suggesting their politics were wrong based on the actions of their murderers?

Hahaaha you do realize that he lived in an era where they were lynching black people just because they walked down the wrong side of the street. They burned down whole towns just because black people live there.
 

werks

Banned
You know your country is FUCKED when the idea that "black lives matter" will not appeal across multiple demographics.
Every group is worried about their own self interest. I didn't hear any outrage from the black community about how brown people were treated post 9/11.
 

watershed

Banned
About a week ago both Hillary and Bernie spoke at the National Urban League Conference.

Hillary

Bernie

Notice how Hillary devotes her whole speech talking about racial inequality, while most of Bernie's speech is still about class inequality instead of race inequality, even at a conference that is specifically about racial issues? It takes like 15 minutes before he talks about it for the last 7 minutes of his speech.

I don't know if that makes it helpful for this specific protest to happen, but it might help explain why minorities support has been lower than you might expect.
This is something I noticed as well. Authentic or not, Hillary is using the ideas and language of the discourse while Bernie talks like he is on the outside looking in. Maybe that means Hillary has better advisers and speechwriters, or maybe it means Hillary does get it in a way that resonates with people of color.
 

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
What people who are defending the protesters fail to realize is that for many perception is reality. If someone who doesnt follow politics see the protests they are going to assume Bernie has a weak stance on minority rights and most likely assume that other candidates have a better record on minority rights. Thus throwing their support behind hillary or repubs.

Long story long they are shooting themselves in the foot.
 

Piecake

Member
MLK is synonymous with the civil rights movement and he achieved far more success than his contemporaries. Respectability does get you somewhere.

We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly I have never yet engaged in a direct action movement that was "well timed," according to the timetable of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This "wait" has almost always meant "never." We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."

-MLK
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
You know your country is FUCKED when the idea that "black lives matter" will not appeal across multiple demographics.

It's not that people don't sympathize, it's that people are more concerned with the economy at the end of the day.

FTR: couldn't give less of a shit about the bernie sanders campaign
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
I didn't mean to phrase it as a binary but there has consistently been this tension in liberal America. A lot of people have never experienced or had to confront the complexity of these issues. The fact is, policing is deeply unfair and reflective of conditions throughout society. I think most liberals live in such a way that they can be largely ignorant of the deeply ingrained racial prejudices alive today and BLM is exposing this. I can't tell you how many "liberals" I've seen say we are talking about policing too much or get angry at BLM because they find them angry or abrasive.

for sure, it's one thing to think "ofc racism is bad and black lives matter and the police suck", and entirely different to actually be confronted by the reality of what that all means.

Black people killed by police

But, Bernie Sanders was shouted at and couldn't speak

Hard call

i too approve of harassment, because somewhere else, someone else did something bad.
 

royalan

Member
Every group is worried about their own self interest. I didn't hear any outrage from the black community about how brown people were treated post 9/11.

We've now come to the part of the thread where minorities are pit against each other.
 

akira28

Member
MLK is synonymous with the civil rights movement and he achieved far more success than his contemporaries. Respectability does get you somewhere.

He was shot, at at time when his popularity was at 25%. An all time low. His allies in government turned against him when he spoke out against the Vietnam war. His allies in the black and white communities were no longer standing behind him so strongly, due to controversies in the media attacking his character and commitment to the movement. And he had already accomplished a lot of what he was fighting for so there was a lull in activity amongst his campaign.

He was turned into a martyr and then a symbol of the establishment. He intended to be neither, but he had to die first before he could become "useful". "Respectability" wasn't what MLK was going for. He would be the one helping to plan the disruptions, not sitting in the back of the room waiting for his turn to speak. If he believed in a cause, he faught for that cause, he did not sit for the cause, he did not go to meetings and watch for the cause.
 

kess

Member
Notice how Hillary devotes her whole speech talking about racial inequality, while most of Bernie's speech is still about class inequality instead of race inequality, even at a conference that is specifically about racial issues?

Maybe that's what he believes. I'd certainly be interested if he clarifies his position on it.
 

Trey

Member
MLK is synonymous with the civil rights movement and he achieved far more success than his contemporaries. Respectability does get you somewhere.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what respectability politics is.

Respectability politics is integrating with the main stream, not rocking the boat, and asking nicely for the oppressing force to ease their boot up off your neck a bit.

Don't sag your pants, don't twerk, don't do "black people" things, and the powers that be will have no quarrel with you.

It relies on the naive belief that racism is in some part perpetuated by the oppressed, and can see remedied unilaterally by them if they simply started "acting right."

And as we all know, you gonna catch a baton to the head just as quick in some Oxfords as you would some air forces. Jermaine's resume going straight to the trash whether he go six sets of cufflinks or turns up on the weekends.
 

Frog-fu

Banned
Got him shot. Not exactly a good example there kid.

MLK is the perfect example. MLK carried himself with dignity and represented a movement worthy of attention and respect. He galvanised millions of all races and walks of life in supporting the end to injustice.

He was murdered, yes, but the people honour his sacrifice and his work to this day and will continue to do so for generations upon generations.

Do you think he would've been half as successful if he acted like some of his contemporaries - of whom many either died before him or slid into obscurity?
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
He probably would've gotten there a lot sooner if he projected aggression like these misguided individuals.

Gandhi, from who MLK drew inspiration, was also murdered. Are you suggesting their politics were wrong based on the actions of their murderers?

Black people are tired of having MLK swung in front of their faces. Its like telling them they should have to be in mortal peril to affect change in a way that everyone else finds less discomforting.
 
for sure, it's one thing to think "ofc racism is bad and black lives matter and the police suck", and entirely different to actually be confronted by the reality of what that all means.



i too approve of harassment, because somewhere else, someone else did something bad.

Are you quite daft? Violence against POC was compared to people bullying a politician. I haven't even commented on whether they were "right" to do so, but one is a million times worse than the other.
 
Mind you this is after Sanders already retailored his campaign to address the demands of BLM.

Sanders is very careful to reach out to #BlackLivesMatter in every speech. He stops, reads the names off his printed notes, and says “Black lives matter” aloud often. He speaks of racism, he speaks of police. The Netroots protesters were heard, his team insists. Their cry is his cry.

“We have made progress,” Sanders said at the Exeter stop, “but we should all be aware that in terms of racism in terms of sexism, in terms of homophobia, we still have a long way to go.”

Sanders said that #BlackLivesMatter was a movement for all races to embrace.

“I don’t have to tell anybody in this room because I know that you feel the same as I do,” he said to the white audience in Exeter’s Old Town Hall before listing the names of the dead like Bland and Dubose. “All of you know that racism exists today in America. We’ve got a long way to overcome it, and we need to play an active role in reforming our criminal justice system.”

But hey, yeah, its just a white liberal supremacist conspiracy to bring down Hillary and O'Malley, the poor, downtrodden crusaders for prison reform and changing policing methods across the country.
 
The #BlackLivesMatter movement has put black issues and racial injustice on the map in a way that hasn't been seen in this country SINCE the original Civil Rights Movement.

I don't think that you can make the claim that BLM is weak and be taken seriously. Either you haven't been following it, or you just don't care.

You can still care but be critical. I think a lot of people cared about #OccupyWallstreet but that doesn't mean they didn't do a horrible job at conveying their message.

I think this is irony. People should support BLM because it's good even though they're not competent with their message but BLM shouldn't support Bernie because he's not competent with his messages.
 

Mesousa

Banned
I have little doubt if MLK was alive today, he would be labeled a race baiter and a racist.

He was labeled as such when he was alive.

Respectability gets your civil rights violated by a cross dressing psychopath, murdered in a hotel room, and a monument placed in their capital as they try to rewrite your story into their image.
 
Bernie is passed his prime, why run when he will be 75 in Nov 2015?

He should have ran like 10 years ago while still in his 60s

people made a big deal about John McCain's age after selecting Sarah Palin, remembrer
 

royalan

Member
You can still care but be critical. I think a lot of people cared about #OccupyWallstreet but that doesn't mean they didn't do a horrible job at conveying their message.

I think this is irony. People should support BLM because it's good even though they're not competent with their message but they shouldn't support Bernie because he's not competent with his messages.

Only difference is BLM has been extremely consistent and successful with their message,
 

watershed

Banned
MLK is the perfect example. MLK carried himself with dignity and represented a movement worthy of attention and respect. He galvanised millions of all races and walks of life in supporting the end to injustice.

He was murdered, yes, but the people honour his sacrifice and his work to this day and will continue to do so for generations upon generations.

Do you think he would've been half as successful if he acted like some of his contemporaries - of whom many either died before him or slid into obscurity?

MLK was a deeply divisive figure who led extremely effective boycotts that effectively shut cities down. He practiced an extremely disruptive form of activism that hinged on creating so much emotion and attention that the issues could not be ignored. His history has been whitewashed, but MLK himself expressed deep disappointment with what he termed the "white moderate" who failed to see what he was trying to reveal.
 
Bernie is passed his prime, why run when he will be 75 in Nov 2015?

He should have ran like 10 years ago while still in his 60s

people made a big deal about John McCain's age after selecting Sarah Palin, remembrer

Well I doubt Bernie will pick a running mate like Sarah Palin. So if he dies... Bernie 2.0 maybe?
 

Piecake

Member
MLK is the perfect example. MLK carried himself with dignity and represented a movement worthy of attention and respect. He galvanised millions of all races and walks of life in supporting the end to injustice.

He was murdered, yes, but the people honour his sacrifice and his work to this day and will continue to do so for generations upon generations.

Do you think he would've been half as successful if he acted like some of his contemporaries - of whom many either died before him or slid into obscurity?

MLK was an antagonizer. Sure, he did it non-violently and peacefully, but that does not mean that he wasnt an antagonizer. Perhaps we just have different definitions of respectable politics? Because I don't think people who stir shit up, antagonize and fight the status quo practice respectable politics.
 

One is worse than the other, and the comparison is a bad one. Unless Bernie is weirdly the first politician who shouldn't be protested, I don't see why you are not able to comprehend how problematic it is to say that their movement of anti-violence is negated by being loud, and angry, and even mean.

These aren't consistent. It's going after those who can't afford good security.

So what you're saying is that they're consistently going after those who can't afford good security?

:>
 
4I6wrl6.gif
 

werks

Banned
You can still care but be critical. I think a lot of people cared about #OccupyWallstreet but that doesn't mean they didn't do a horrible job at conveying their message.

I think this is irony. People should support BLM because it's good even though they're not competent with their message but BLM shouldn't support Bernie because he's not competent with his messages
.
lol
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
One is worse than the other, and the comparison is a bad one. Unless Bernie is weirdly the first politician who shouldn't be protested, I don't see why you are not able to comprehend how problematic it is to say that their movement of anti-violence is negated by being loud, and angry, and even mean.

Are you quite daft? one thing is bad. Another one is worse. this is not an impossible situation.


I'm glad you're hear to tell me how i can't comprehend things, despite what my own posts are saying.
 
I wouldn't call shouting down people on the mic as successful. I find it abnoxious and childish.

Hey, we can be Liberal and as progressive as can be but getting shouted down? Good luck convincing the rest of the country that is not progressive and that is not liberal.
 
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