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[Bleepey]

Well as a guy from Saint Louis and Memphis, i've had plenty of interactions with the black communities in both cities. I've done tutoring of underprivileged children in high school, and volunteering in burn and trauma wards in university in bad areas. I've seen many sides to the black community. I've seen moments of incredible humanitarianism and endless self-sacrifice for black youth contrasted with the worst shit- the kind of stuff that almost immediately illicits racist responses from even rational, egalitarian thinking and acting people.

I'm gonna have to say that the #1 factor is still the home and community. I'd give homework assignments to these kids and a lot of them just didnt have anyone on their asses. They're not encouraged to read. They have no role models in or outside the home in a lot of situations. They're not that different from a lot of the white kids i grew up with really- except that they're surrounded with terrible influences.

The level of teaching is obvious. Inner city schools are objectively shit. Some of the staff is good and caring, others are lazy and lack ability, confidence, and really even solid educational groundings of their own.I wont even get into stuff like diet, television babysitters, and fathers. That's just obviously fucked up.

IMO everyone with open eyes can see the problems of the black community. The question is does anyone care? Black people or otherwise? Like everywhere else, people are trying to just get by on what little they have. Community rebuilding is something most don't have time for. Or resources. And a lot of educated black people who have made their money don't really seem to care a lot about helping the ones left behind, IMO. For a variety of reasons.

Sargewp has made too many vids on this topic and it would take me a long time to find them. But he says the reason his middle class black parents did not give back was because they were made to be seen as outcasts just because they were not the majority in his shitty neighbourhood. I need to find a video or two on these topics.

 

[Brian Griffin]

I watched a documentary recently that explored this subject.

Vanishing Black Male

Are African American males becoming extinct? Will future generations of African American women not be able to find husbands? These are but a few of the questions explored in this 1 hour 16 minute documentary. Written/directed/produced by Hisani DuBose, it features Melvin Jackson, Jr. (whose acting credits include HBO's "The Wire" and UPN's "Everybody Hates Chris") who interviews doctors, politicians, college students, teachers, law enforcement personnel, a screenwriter and others. Music, artwork and a series of monologues woven throughout the movie should captivate viewers. Oscar nominated editor, Alfred Santana, helps the visuals flow smoothly. Named Best Documentary and Best Director by Kam Williams.

 

[Londa]

This is HUGE problem. So many different black people hate on one another because of the background of each person, there is no such thing as a unified "black people", even within one country.



This is bollocks my friend. No matter where you go, you can find similar situations around the world when discussing the topic. They all have common reasons as well as differences.
You would actually be surprised how much communality two black people from opposite ends of the world have, even when separated by language. It amazes even me.

Did you miss the point about the OP being about American Blacks or something? Come on, get a clue.

What you do in the UK has no effect on what happens in the US. Now if you want to come to the US and change something that's different. The numbers are about what is going on in the US, not the UK.

Here is the first sentence in the OP:

The black male demographic has long been the worst performing ethnic/gender group with regard to education and employment in the United States.

Then we have people with no clue saying: "well Asia, UK and Africa are not like that!"

But I'm the one that needs hooked on phonics?

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Going on the discussion in the thread so far, the Top 5 answers for question #1 are as follows (listed in order of severity):

1. Absence of father and/or just shitty parenting overall
2. Anti-intellectualism that permeates the entire subculture
3. Still hasn't been enough time passed since the civil rights movement. Change takes a long time.
4. Lack of positive black male role models in the media and latent notions of low self-worth as holdovers from the days of slavery.
5. Drugs entering inner-city communities and derailing progress for a large proportion of the community

Does that seem accurate?

id agree and add a few more

6) holdovers from both slavery and African culture, where having a big family young is ideal, regardless of financial situation
7) The perception of single mothers that actually don't need a father and will have a child whenever they feel ready, regardless of compatibility with the father of the foundation of a supportive relationship
8) in fighting between different elements of the African dispora
9) Black pride being perverted into something to impress on to others
10) Overemphasis on creative talent, Sporting skill and how "tough" you are, rather than core skills.

Did you miss the point about the OP being about American Blacks or something? Come on, get a clue.

What you do in the UK has no effect on what happens in the US. Now if you want to come to the US and change something that's different. The numbers are about what is going on in the US, not the UK.

You are the one without a clue. I'm not going to waste energy explaining. Forget it.

Yet you are in a thread talking about stuff outside of the United States that have nothing to do with the OP. Good job.

Now you are just being deliberately obtuse. please refrain from quoting me again.

 

[Futureman]

Are you saying that a black child born today does not posses the same mental ability to learn?

The way you phrase your argument you make it sound like african americans are biologically bound from birth to hold onto educational traits from their ancestors


What a terrible belief. I believe everybody is born on an equal footing with an ability to learn, but are hindered by their surroundings.

I don't mean to come in and cherry pick a comment, but I did not get that at ALL from what Dali said. He had zero mention of genetics in his post which makes your response crazy accusatory. His argument had to do with history and culture and zero to do with genetics.

 

[SmokyDave]

Did you miss the point about the OP being about American Blacks or something? Come on, get a clue.

What you do in the UK has no effect on what happens in the US. Now if you want to come to the US and change something that's different. The numbers are about what is going on in the US, not the UK.

Here is the first sentence in the OP:

It really isn't that simple. If a circumstance is being presented as uniquely American and someone in the UK knows that there are analogous circumstances in the UK, it can be beneficial to bring that up. See how the different populations act and react under similar circumstances.

 

[Londa]

id agree and add a few more

6) holdovers from both slavery and African culture, where having a big family young is ideal, regardless of financial situation
7) The perception of single mothers that actually don't need a father and will have a child whenever they feel ready, regardless of compatibility with the father of the foundation of a supportive relationship
8) in fighting between different elements of the African dispora
9) Black pride being perverted into something to impress on to others
10) Overemphasis on creative talent, Sporting skill and how "tough" you are, rather than core skills.



You are the one without a clue. I'm not going to waste energy explaining. Forget it.

Yet you are in a thread talking about stuff outside of the United States that have nothing to do with the OP. Good job.

 

[Londa]

It really isn't that simple. If a circumstance is being presented as uniquely American and someone in the UK knows that there are analogous circumstances in the UK, it can be beneficial to bring that up. See how the different populations act and react under similar circumstances.

So there were blacks from Africa that where brought over to be slaves in the UK?

 

[SmokyDave]

So there were blacks from Africa that where brought over to be slaves in the UK?

Different populations, similar circumstances.

 

[Parch]

1. You take responsibility for yourself. This isn't a blame game.

I strongly believe in this. There is a bad habit to fall back on the list of ready-made excuses as a crutch to under perform and not even try, especially when they have a support group using the same excuses. Independence leads to responsibility.
Everybody has choices, and every individual controls the amount of effort they put into something.

"Why did you fail the math test?"
-Pulls out list of excuses-
"Pick one."

 

[ScOULaris]

You're obviously missing out on the obvious factor of racism post civil rights era, but sure, thats not bad.

I didn't include that for a reason. I don't think it's enough of an issue anymore to crack the Top 5.

Also, anyone have any insight to share regarding my post about teenage pregnancy on the previous page?

 

[Londa]

Different populations, similar circumstances.

being brought from Africa to be a slave in another country is a circumstance.

Now you are just being deliberately obtuse. please refrain from quoting me again.

How do you control this?

 

[JGS]

Yeah, I said this in the other thread but them beating the odds was not 100% from their own ability. Just as we can now all agree that environment is the reason for problems within the black community but it can also be the reason for going on to be successful. A push in the right direction from a parent, uncle, or teacher could be all that a lot of people need to better themselves and its insulting that some successful black people refuse to help others out because they became to good for them.

I gotta be honest. I rarely see this in practice unless it's beyond the means of the successful to actually help.

Nearly every black owned business I've seen is at least half black employed and usually more. The more successful blacks often stay around their own communities and churches and gice accordingly. Plus there's rarely a black family that is 100% successful so they will always have more family in need.

now if it's a case of helping the criminal element or something along those lines, I would likely agree. Otherwise, blacks rarely forget their roots unless they move. They do like to show off though.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I didn't include that for a reason. I don't think it's enough of an issue anymore to crack the Top 5.

Also, anyone have any insight to share regarding my post about teenage pregnancy on the previous page?

read my additions. Number 6 &7 in a particular. That is a worldwide thing with black females, (although many males hold the same or similar views) unfortunately.

 

[SmokyDave]

being brought from Africa to be a slave in another country is a circumstance.

And if any of those people are alive today, it would be a relevant circumstance.

Besides that, there are many things that the countries have in common. Our justice system is proportionally harder on black people than on white people, as is yours. All I'm trying to say is that there is value to be had in listening to wider perspectives.

 

[Esch]

I didn't include that for a reason. I don't think it's enough of an issue anymore to crack the Top 5.?

False. Housing segregation is a huge, huge factor and you need to seriously reevaluate it.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

being brought from Africa to be a slave in another country is a circumstance.




How do you control this?

so not only are you being obtuse, you are acting stupid as well. Do you even know what refrain means?

 

[Londa]

And if any of those people are alive today, it would be a relevant circumstance.

Besides that, there are many things that the countries have in common. Our justice system is proportionally harder on black people than on white people, as is yours. All I'm trying to say is that there is value to be had in listening to wider perspectives.

in your opinion

so not only are you obtuse, you are stupid as well. Do you even know what refrain means?

Dumb question.

I know that I don't have to ask you if you know the difference between America and UK. It's pretty clear you don't.

 

[ShinobiFist]

This may sound really fucked up, but is not meant to be. There are a combination of things on why 68%of black kids are raised by single mothers. One being that a lot of black men are behind bars, and two(Not to sound fucked up, but just saying)77% of black women are consider overweight and 50%are obese.That's the most for any race. I know some dudes like their big women, but not everyone. Could be a reason for some dads bailing out. Just something I wanted to point out. It would be pretty interesting to know the percentage of "obese" women in that 68%.

 

[Sneds]

in your opinion

Obviously. We don't need to put IMO before everything we write on here.

That being said, I'm sure that the specific legacy of slavery will have had an impact on modern US society. This legacy is missing from British society. Although, these things are hard, if not impossible, to quantify.

 

[ScOULaris]

False. Housing segregation is a huge, huge factor and you need to seriously reevaluate it.

Housing segregation occurs partly because of voluntary segregation and partly because of credit and income differences between demographics.

 

[Kusagari]

I lived in a heavily black area for most of my life. The truth is that most, not all, just don't want to escape from the cycle. I witnessed guys who were so smart, and got A's when they tried, just give up because all their friends had done so. The school of course didn't care, because most kids were considered a 'lost cause'. They're cool with working at McDonalds because they're with their homies and make enough to live off. Three of my best friends had kids and ended up getting married, so at least they stuck with the girl, to the mother before they turned 19. I was talking to a friend the other day and he admitted that in a way he was scared of leaving the lifestyle behind.

I know people will say I could never understand because I'm white, and in a way that's true. But this is the culture I grew up with and witnessed for most of my life and I'd like to think I understand it at least somewhat.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

in your opinion




Dumb question.

I know that I don't have to ask you if you know the difference between America and UK. It's pretty clear you don't.

then I feel sorry for your reading comprehension skills. That is my final word on the matter.

 

[V_Arnold]

Rather than give the same armchair analysis that has probably been given time and time again, Ill point out some of the factors that go ignored from the perspective of a black man that grew up in a inner city area. Granted, life is alot easier where I live (U.K) than in the states for black males for many reasons, but the same allegories apply to a certain extent.

1) No concept of opportunity. This is far different from not having opportunity, This relates to the fact that for some black males, the opportunities that are available are not for them and they wont be accepted for them even if they try. there is a cultural view that "the man" is always going to try and hold them down no matter wehat they do and that people will ALWAYS discriminate against them because they are black. It is very common for another black person to tell you that you have to work twice as hard to get anything in life than your white counterpart and are the easiest to let go/kick out. While in my experience this is true in some cases, the majority of time its simple perception and more likely if an opportunity fails through for a black male, its because something they have done or not done which they should have. What happens over time, instead of seeing failures as feedback and looking at the areas that they are deficient in, they begin to fail back the time tested "those white people are rasist" excuse.

2) Wearing their blackness as a badge of honor. Black men, more than any other race I have encountered, have this thing about the fact that they are black makes the special in some way and they must share it with the world. I am just as guilty as any black man in overly promoting my culture and background in damn near everything I do. While in the right company, this is perfectly fine, there are times were it is goddamn inappropriate. Most of the time its something that is more subtle than others, like playing the most profanity ladden rap, when your driving up to work or with white co-workers in the car sometimes, its like you are daring people to have an issue with what you are doing just so you can call them rasist, when in actuality you are just being an asshole. I understand, part of it is just style, the natural extravagance and braggadocio that some black men have etc. But to someone who hasn't been brought up in the same culture, you just seem like you are being a cunt. You aren't "selling out" if you take other peoples feelings into account. which brings me to my third point.

3) An irrational fear of anything that isn't seen as "Black" as a black man, there are some cultural norms that you just shouldn't do, for no damn reason whatsoever. It varies from social circle to social circle, and alot is more tied to common sense more than anything, But even when taking that into account, almost every black male I have ever come across has at least one belief that he cannot do something on the sole pillar of logic that it is "just not what black people do" like I said some have more basis and some are harmless, like one i subscribe to:- "black people don't let animals sleep in their bed with them or lick their face", when these beliefs relate to bettering themselves or looking and making the most of opportunities, it holds them back. It is more pronounced in inner city circles and it tends to be the poorer you are and less educated, the more judgemental you are of anything that isn't within your own spere of influence and opportunity.


There are actually 4 more main ones that I can think of, but they require a bit more depth because they aren't easy topics to identify and fix. the ones listed above could be dealt with a simple attitude change. I do respect that some of this stuff is definitely not exclusive to black males, but for me, in my experience. this is the group where the problems are more pronounced. Another point id like to make is that I am not in anyway suggesting that is solely black males fault, there are plenty things that don't work in their favour that they cannot change, but for me. its pointless to worry about those things until we as race start to get the simple stuff down.

What an amazing writeup.
Let me add my little bit of this. Although in Hungary, there are quite different racial issues - but the core of the problem is just exactly like what you are describing.

I think that somewhere along the line, being racist became much more than just a word, and with that, it took away some very important coverage on the bigger issue that is presented here. I have met a few racist as a kid hanging out in bars, and I have seen some friends of mine deal with them in a daily basis. What I realized - and I think this is not just some self-hallucination - that racism, just like looking down on homosexuals or people who do not share all lifestyle decisions with you, basically boils down to having no respect for someone else. Not respecting his/her looks, assuming things that you should not really assume, acting like "your way" or "your skin color" is the proper one to have in the scenario that you are in right now.

What you are describing as "black people should do this or that" is simply another face of the same mirror: as a defensive mechanic (or born as a defensive mechanic, evolving into something entirely different), assume that our way is the "way it was, way it should be", and every different behaviour or lifestyle decisions are looked down upon.

I do not know where the blame lies. The media, with all the exaggeration? The parents that come home tired from work and not wanting to deal with what is basically THEIR responsibility (i.e. the lives, the education - school and home - of their children, the atmoshpere and the tone of the talks they have at home)? Or simply people's strongest habit of falling back to behaviors that were proven to work in the past? At the end of the day, blaming wont get this culture anywhere. Be it a european, american, asian, or other issue. It all boils down to this: Are you open just enough so you are able to actually hear the words, see the work of that other person that is telling you something/working for you on something, or do you immediately look for waging a war with him and coming out as a winner?

Baby steps, I think. Everyone can do their own babysteps. One less agressive look on one freak on the metro. One less sigh when something slightly bothers you around "them" (no matter what "them" are: gays, people with different skin color, people with weird hair colors/shapes, etc), and maybe we will start listening to each other once more.

 

[Londa]

then I feel sorry for your reading comprension skills. That is my final word on the matter.

as did I toward you a page or two ago.

 

[Zaptruder]

I strongly believe in this. There is a bad habit to fall back on the list of ready-made excuses as a crutch to under perform and not even try, especially when they have a support group using the same excuses. Independence leads to responsibility.
Everybody has choices, and every individual controls the amount of effort they put into something.

"Why did you fail the math test?"
-Pulls out list of excuses-
"Pick one."

Fuck this point of view. FUCK IT RIGHT UP ITS ASS.

It's basically a method of absolving social responsibility; as though screaming "IT ALL PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY" hard enough would fix the situation.

No bitches. It's both; both sides have to recognize the problems at hand and work towards trying to fix the issues - because it's mutually beneficial to do so. Pretending as though they're solely responsible for their plight, or that they're not at all responsible are both equally dumb and useless.

Figure out the factors keeping them down, resolve them. Some of those factors are external, some of them internal.

 

[samus i am]

Housing segregation occurs partly because of voluntary segregation and partly because of credit and income differences between demographics.

No, it is 100% because of income. If everyone was paid over $20hr there would be no ghettos or projects.

 

[ScOULaris]

No, it is 100% because of income. If everyone was paid over $20hr there would be no ghettos or projects.

Whatever the case may be, institutional racism has nothing to do with it.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

I just wanted to come in here and comment. When you are a young black man not even your peers in the Black community expect you to succeed. I know I used to get made fun of a lot for my good grades and that ridicule only came from Blacks. It seems like many people associate academic success with a long list of things thats acting white. And once you are successful many people want to you bear the burden of all Blacks. They say you represent all Black people ever. I remember I went to an event and a speaker said every time we made a mistake we basically wasted a slave's life. I think its absurd to put responsibility for every one else on a small group.

 

[Devolution]

What's the phrase?

Crabs in a bucket.

 

[samus i am]

Whatever the case may be, institutional racism has nothing to do with it.

It partially does. It is no coincidence that the areas with the lowest incomes have the most run down schools. It's either because they don't want to waste money on poor kids, or they don't want to waste money on non-whites. Either way, how can you get ahead with a second rate education?

 

[Esch]

It partially does. It is no coincidence that the areas with the lowest incomes have the most run down schools. How can you get ahead with a second rate education?

Exactly this. Low income neighborhoods also attract certain other activities, which no doubt have an effect on the male population's success.

Lol at institutional racism having nothing to do with the success of a racial demographic.

 

[Zaptruder]

I just wanted to come in here and comment. When you are a young black man not even your peers in the Black community expect you to succeed. I know I used to get made fun of a lot for my good grades and that ridicule only came from Blacks. It seems like many people associate academic success with a long list of things thats acting white. And once you are successful many people want to you bear the burden of all Blacks. They say you represent all Black people ever. I remember I went to an event and a speaker said every time we made a mistake we basically wasted a slave's life. I think its absurd to put responsibility for every one else on a small group.

You can't bear the burden of all your peers - but you and people that are going through what you have been through can repeat catchy salient memes such as - You gotta play the game to beat the game (i.e. a counteract to the retarded anti-intellectualism meme).

On one hand, it still rallies a sense of black pride; us versus them thing - but it's basically exploiting simple instincts to stem damaging and counterproductive beliefs within the community.

 

[ScOULaris]

It partially does. It is no coincidence that the areas with the lowest incomes have the most run down schools. How can you get ahead with a second rate education?

But you're still talking about money, not racism. Do you think the schools are run down because somebody is discriminating against them with regard to their black population? No. Poor performing schools have all sorts of funding issues, but it has nothing to do with the color of the students' skin. Inner-city schools are bad because of their students as much as the staff, regardless of what the predominant race is at the school.

 

[Parallax]

What's the phrase?

Crabs in a bucket.

For the most part sadly. Which is why the ones that escape have no desire to go back to save the rest

 

[Hari Seldon]

In the 50's/60's, black families were every bit as tight as white families. Somewhere around the beginning of the 70's things changed, and have only gotten worse since.

Hmmm... besides drugs, maybe the end of school spankings? If the kids are going to have a fatherless home at least some discipline at school would help. Plus spanking is a much better punishment than detention. Takes 30 seconds and they are back in class, rather than dicking the dog for hours in detention and missing more class.

 

[Death Dealer]

No, it is 100% because of income. If everyone was paid over $20hr there would be no ghettos or projects.

I once thought the disparity of success in society was all due to income too. And then I learned a statistic. even in upper class neighborhoods, the black students perform worse than others. They give less a shit about school than others. IMO the cultural legacy of slavery is an incalculably large reason.

 

[knee]

The only successful people that young black males see that are 'just like them' (i.e, black and male) are:

• Pro Athletes
• Rappers
• Actors / Comedians

There aren't any young black teachers... and the successful black dudes don't live in black neighborhoods anymore. So... young black kids don't even have that 'hard work' role model nearby-- even if it's not their own father. Mom is at work and the next most successful guy-- the dude in the nice car is selling drugs, etc.

Also, if everyone was paid $20/hr. Prices would soar and $20/hr would be the new poverty line. That's not a fair assessment

 

[Esch]

Hmmm... besides drugs, maybe the end of school spankings? If the kids are going to have a fatherless home at least some discipline at school would help. Plus spanking is a much better punishment than detention. Takes 30 seconds and they are back in class, rather than dicking the dog for hours in detention and missing more class.

Yes, negative reinforcement is certainly what black children need, typically not receiving their fair share at home. Have you ever heard of black parents beating their children? One day they'll discover this proven formula for success. With your help?

 

[JGS]

It partially does. It is no coincidence that the areas with the lowest incomes have the most run down schools. It's either because they don't want to waste money on poor kids, or they don't want to waste money on non-whites. Either way, how can you get ahead with a second rate education?

It's not a coincindence but let's be honest. The schools in better neighborhoods have better neighbors. The school staff and residents have a greater concern for keeping the schools clean. Graffiti isn't even a risk so it's not even something that have to ensure is cleaned up.

The racism came into play 50 years ago when shoddy workmanship was used on inner cty schools. however, my old school just got a shiny new building a couple of years ago and they are still scoring lower than the the other schools despite new teachers, bigger classrooms, and better tech than all the other high schools now.

Institutionalized racism is tough to prove when there is a huge cloud of minority indifference which then uses racism as an excuse for self made inadequacies

 

[Dali]

Are you saying that a black child born today does not posses the same mental ability to learn?

The way you phrase your argument you make it sound like african americans are biologically bound from birth to hold onto educational traits from their ancestors


What a terrible belief. I believe everybody is born on an equal footing with an ability to learn, but are hindered by their surroundings.

Uhhh... I didn't say that at all. I don't believe a black kid is any less capable than anyone else but by grace of conditions that may be vestiges of slave-era marginalization of black people, it's a whole lot harder.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Yes, negative reinforcement is certainly what black children need, typically receiving their fair share at home.

What is the worst that a school can do to a kid? Suspend them? Who gives a shit if you get suspended if you don't give a shit about school anyway, and you have no father keeping you in line, and your single mom is too busy to enforce a "grounded" punishment because she is working? Just make the punishment harsh, but short, and get the kid back in class.

 

[samus i am]

But you're still talking about money, not racism. Do you think the schools are run down because somebody is discriminating against them with regard to their black population? No. Poor performing schools have all sorts of funding issues, but it has nothing to do with the color of the students' skin. Inner-city schools are bad because of their students as much as the staff, regardless of what the predominant race is at the school.

This just goes to show how deeply ingrained the problem is. You can't just blame the parents and be done with it. There are so many factors at play and seemingly they are all stacked against today's black youth. Racism is an ever present part of the issue weather you admit it or not.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Haha, when you post a picture as suggestive as this in the OP, the thread basically writes itself.

came in to say this. will stay to say more.

I'm not sure how knowledgeable GAF-proper is regarding the layers of issues at play here. of the posts I have read, I can certainly say, "not most". As such, I'm not sure what can be accomplished in this thread. Few are in a position to implement changes. I'd assume most here are not black and have few tie-ins with the Black community. Fewer still are actually active in any sort of groups that focus on improving the condition of minorities or women.

We are good at pontificating behind keyboards, though.

That said, as a black man, a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., the National Society of Black Engineers, and Big Brothers, I'd assume I'm more active than 99.999% of our forumites will be in actually getting some shit done. Speaking right to the people being affected? Yep, I've done that. Speaking at billion-dollar corporation events in an effort to get money moving for the cause? Yep, I've done that.

What I will say is that that issues at play are multi-pronged. They cannot be adequately solved amongst forumites who are under-educated about the issues (admit it, that's what we collectively represent).

Issues include (but are not limited to): self-esteem, direction, American definitions of beauty and intelligence...and the struggle to find a place, male abandonment (that finds its roots in 300 years of slavery), societal disregard and disdain (which finds its roots in slavery, mediocre teacher support), poor home support and training, 100 years of economic oppression, white flight, racial steering, corrupt police and lack of support from emergency services, lack of trust in the medical industry (secondary to 300 years of documented corruption, experimentation and destruction of lives), dilapidated schools, overpopulated schools, classrooms being run by teachers who neither majored nor minored in the subject they're teaching, teacher corruption (changing grades, teaching to tests), lack of gainful employment opportunities in urban areas (creating huge transportation issues), lack of role models, lack of both parents, lack of inheritance and property ownership (the building blocks of wealth), role of black women, lack of political power, prison and the judicial system injustices broadly, and lack of hope.

I could go on, but those are some topics that have to be looked at in this web of challenges. Each one of those issues could have its own long, introspective thread. Each has several thick books dedicated to its study.

To be sure, there is no singular solution. There is no "just fix a and all will be well." Believing otherwise only serves to remind people like me that most have no clue about the height, width and breath of the issues you're actually attempting to discuss. Hell, you can't deal with issues like these without being able to see the whole picture...and you can't do that with limited insight. It'd be like trying to fix the global economy without ever having taken an Economics class (or at least read some books on the subject). If you recognize that scope of an economy and all of its mechanisms is one that is extraordinary and difficult to grasp in concept, how much moreso a multiplicity of people and cultures that are described as simply "black people"?

If you think about these issues and don't feel the kind of tension you'd feel staring up Mt. Everest with an idea to climb it, you don't know enough about the depth of issues to help.

I'll take my leave now. If someone would like to find out ways to help, they can PM me. Talking on the web about stuff is bullshit anyways. Regards.

 

[la flama blanca]

Housing segregation occurs partly because of voluntary segregation and partly because of credit and income differences between demographics.

Yonkers NY.

 

[jchap]

No, it is 100% because of income. If everyone was paid over $20hr there would be no ghettos or projects.

Sure there would be because you would have 25% unemployment if everyone was paid $20/hr

 

[Dunk#7]

Uhhh... I didn't say that at all. I don't believe a black kid is any less capable than anyone else but by grace of conditions that may be vestiges of slave-era marginalization of black people, it's a whole lot harder.

I apologize for misunderstanding

My main point is simply that you can easily blame current day racism, but you cannot blame past slavery.

Current day racism does stem from slavery, but you cannot directly attribute things to slavery as everybody born today is born with a fresh, clean slate.

It may be more difficult for some to "make it" but that is not the result of slavery it is the result of racism.

 

[Esch]

What is the worst that a school can do to a kid? Suspend them? Who gives a shit if you get suspended if you don't give a shit about school anyway, and you have no father keeping you in line, and your single mom is too busy to enforce a "grounded" punishment because she is working? Just make the punishment harsh, but short, and get the kid back in class.

What about reinforcing positive behavior instead? Most negative reinforcement has the consequence of heightening fear and aggression in the recipient, surely traits that many associate with disenfranchised young black men? Surely in the actual home beatings don't seem to be working as well as advertised, given the preponderance of child abuse in low-income neighborhoods and families?

 

[samus i am]

Issues include (but are not limited to): self-esteem, direction, American definitions of beauty and intelligence...and the struggle to find a place, male abandonment (that finds its roots in 300 years of slavery), societal disregard and disdain (which finds its roots in slavery, mediocre teacher support), poor home support and training, 100 years of economic oppression, white flight, racial steering, corrupt police and lack of support from emergency services, lack of trust in the medical industry (secondary to 300 years of documented corruption, experimentation and destruction of lives), dilapidated schools, overpopulated schools, classrooms being run by teachers who neither majored nor minored in the subject they're teaching, teacher corruption (changing grades, teaching to tests), lack of gainful employment opportunities in urban areas (creating huge transportation issues), lack of role models, lack of both parents, lack of inheritance and property ownership (the building blocks of wealth), role of black women, lack of political power, prison and the judicial system injustices broadly, and lack of hope.

I could go on, but those are some topics that have to be looked at in this web of challenges. Each one of those issues could have its own long, introspective thread. Each has several thick books dedicated to its study.

Good post.

 

[Dunk#7]

came in to say this. will stay to say more.

I'm not sure how knowledgeable GAF-proper is regarding the layers of issues at play here. of the posts I have read, I can certainly say, "not most". As such, I'm not sure what can be accomplished in this thread. Few are in a position to implement changes. I'd assume most here are not black and have few tie-ins with the Black community. Fewer still are actually active in any sort of groups that focus on improving the condition of minorities or women.

We are good at pontificating behind keyboards, though.

That said, as a black man, a member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc., the National Society of Black Engineers, and Big Brothers, I'd assume I'm more active than 99.999% of our forumites will be in actually getting some shit done. Speaking right to the people being affected? Yep, I've done that. Speaking at billion-dollar corporation events in an effort to get money moving for the cause? Yep, I've done that.

What I will say is that that issues at play are multi-pronged. They cannot be adequately solved amongst forumites who are under-educated about the issues (admit it, that's what we collectively represent).

Issues include (but are not limited to): self-esteem, direction, American definitions of beauty and intelligence...and the struggle to find a place, male abandonment (that finds its roots in 300 years of slavery), societal disregard and disdain (which finds its roots in slavery, mediocre teacher support), poor home support and training, 100 years of economic oppression, white flight, racial steering, corrupt police and lack of support from emergency services, lack of trust in the medical industry (secondary to 300 years of documented corruption, experimentation and destruction of lives), dilapidated schools, overpopulated schools, classrooms being run by teachers who neither majored nor minored in the subject they're teaching, teacher corruption (changing grades, teaching to tests), lack of gainful employment opportunities in urban areas (creating huge transportation issues), lack of role models, lack of both parents, lack of inheritance and property ownership (the building blocks of wealth), role of black women, lack of political power, prison and the judicial system injustices broadly, and lack of hope.

I could go on, but those are some topics that have to be looked at in this web of challenges. Each one of those issues could have its own long, introspective thread. Each has several thick books dedicated to its study.

To be sure, there is no singular solution. There is no "just fix a and all will be well." Believing otherwise only serves to remind people like me that most have no clue about the height, width and breath of the issues you're actually attempting to discuss. Hell, you can't deal with issues like these without being able to see the whole picture...and you can't do that with limited insight. It'd be like trying to fix the global economy without ever having taken an Economics class (or at least read some books on the subject). If you recognize that scope of an economy and all of its mechanisms is one that is extraordinary and difficult to grasp in concept, how much moreso a multiplicity of people and cultures that are described as simply "black people"?

If you think about these issues and don't feel the kind of tension you'd feel staring up Mt. Everest with an idea to climb it, you don't know enough about the depth of issues to help.

I'll take my leave now. If someone would like to find out ways to help, they can PM me. Talking on the web about stuff is bullshit anyways. Regards.

/thread

That sums it all up. We are not going to solve this issue on this forum. We all play a very small role in the issue and need to do our part to help change the status quo.