Is this game worth picking up if I'm going to get Persona 4 once it hits in August? And with this game not being compatible with continuum shift, even though its the same game mostly, how is the population like?(PSN) is it better to get Continuum Shift or this based on community support and online population?
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Blazblue Continuum Shift EXTEND |OT| - Now with New Hat
- Thread starter sixteen-bit
- Start date
cj_iwakura
Member
This game's all about the online, and it has all of CS' DLC too.
Great story mode as well, if you're into that.
PSN is always fairly active, I think.
On that note, uh...
what happened to BB's tournament scene?
None of the big tournaments show BB love anymore.
Great story mode as well, if you're into that.
PSN is always fairly active, I think.
On that note, uh...
what happened to BB's tournament scene?
None of the big tournaments show BB love anymore.
I'd say invest in Skullgirls since Persona is just three months away. The BB base moved on to this game, but there will be a BB3 most likely (they gotta make Kokonoe and Jubei playable sometime), and Persona is going to be as popular as Blazblue ever was.
Not trying to say this game is trash, but it will be as dead as Arcana Heart is now online in three months, and most places aren't running tournies for it outside of majors.
cj_iwakura
Member
Not even majors show BB love anymore.
They have good reason not to, judging on numbers at FR. Melty out-drew it, and by a significant margin (like 20-25 entries I think). I don't know if the Arcana side tourney out-drew BB, but heard it was close.
I think BBCSEX being a disc release really hurt the game.
I was saying this since the beginning. They could've made Extend a "GOTY edition", compatible with CS but no, they decided they wanted more money. What a stupid move.
Prototype-03
Member
More than anything, I think they were just releasing the games way too fast. As soon as I got comfortable with CT, CS1 was announced. Then I pretty much stopped playing CT.
CS1 is out, 2-3 months in, CS2 is announced. CS2 comes out, within 6 months or so, Extend is announced.
I like my games updated often, but why should I when a new game is right around the corner? Let the game settle.
CT lasted for about four months in North America due to the arcade/unsolicited PC "release" of CS1 following so closely after its release. CS1 actually had a pretty decent run, but CS2 was fairly short-lived and EX barely even got off the ground.
There needs to be a minimum of two years between releases. They also need to stop disguising balance patches as major releases, because they encourage people to outright stop playing the game over what is ultimately a middling change to the game.
There needs to be a minimum of two years between releases. They also need to stop disguising balance patches as major releases, because they encourage people to outright stop playing the game over what is ultimately a middling change to the game.
Balance patches force people to waste energy restarting their learning of the game. They discourage high-level play, and they do this because they, by definition, change what is effective. Instead of a metagame being built around a certain set of rules (move x is strong, so metagame reacts and develops ways to beat move x. Counters are then developed for counters of move x, and balance is induced through trial and error), the game itself is changed to compensate for perceived weaknesses in the original set of rules (move x is strong, so move x is modified to make it weaker. Now move y is strong). Balance patches are inherently less effective than the player base at introducing balance to a game due to the fact that video game developers are not benevolent and often cannot predict how a player base will exploit their game. CS1 Litchi and CSEX Ragna are perfect examples of this.
They don't discourage high level play as much as broken stuff discourages it. If what you said was true, there would be fewer games with severe balance problems.
Eventually, the patches stop, and then what you're talking about happens anyways, so at absolute worst, it would just delay things.
Eventually, the patches stop, and then what you're talking about happens anyways, so at absolute worst, it would just delay things.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I dropped BB when CS got that update (I think 1.02 or 1.03). Litchi's combos changed. I would have had to re-learn combos, and it made no sense. Why would they do that? It's not like it was a new game or anything. I try to keep my skills up in as many FG's as I can, but any game that does that is dead to me.
Terareflection
Member
ASW games are pretty notorious for that kind of thing.
Broken stuff? You mean like spammable projectiles that deal chip damage, cannot be blocked in the air, are not equally accessible to every character and are periodic enough to entirely halt ground movement at neutral distance? Or a method of cancelling that has no cost, makes most air-to-ground attacks completely safe, and allows the extending of combos far beyond what was originally intended? I'm referring to hadouken and L-cancelling, respectively, both of which are now entirely key elements of their respective game's competitive culture due to the response of the community -- and not the game designers -- to their existence.
Also, there aren't any games that I can think of with a competitive community that also have severe balance problems, except maybe MK and Brawl.
If ASW keeps delaying the development of a meaningful competitive community around BB, nobody's going to play it anymore. The game is already basically dead in North America, and I say this as someone who is pretty involved in the local BB community.
Yes, emergent stuff develops- sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it's a huge debate.
Also, sometimes a character seems overpowered not because the game isn't developed, but because they actually are overpowered. MK-style patching is par for the course in every other competitive genre, I don't see the problem with it. Top players will find new ways to win.
As for severe balance problems- would KOF have had near the success it had in NA without the console balance changes? It would have flopped and people would remember it as LOL dropkick game. Might even get the crossover dropkick vs divekick.
Like two-thirds of KoF's yearly revisions aren't played and its popularity here is inconsistent at best. Also, MK had some truly atrocious balance problems (Kung Lao) that warranted immediate patching because the game was basically unplayable. BB doesn't have these, and even the balanced versions get a patch a year after their release. But it's not enough that the game is antiquated every year; it's the fact that they announce the patch midway through and completely destroy the current revision's popularity by doing so.
KOF's problems in America have little to do with game quality- SF has just as high a ratio of mediocre games that are no longer played as KOF. MK proves my point, sometimes patches are needed. BB is nowhwere near as bad as MK was at launch, but it did need to get to CS2 to really start to shine.
A few tweaks here and there can freshen a game up.
You're right about the patch announcements destroying the game's popularity, add in long waits from arcade and it's a killer.
So there's no point in getting BB? Is there a timeline on when BB3 will come out? or a new GG?(do people even play GG anymore?) I'm not really interested in SG because I hate its art style and Im very cautious about P4A since finding out its fighting system is based off of making auto combos by pressing one button repeatedly.
Master Milk
Member
Sounds like you should stick with Street Fighter.
gg re release is set for this summer (vague, but that's dlc games for you).
extend is a great game that should be getting more exposure, but hte evo announcement certainly didn't help. if i had to guess, bb's low numbers are due to the fact that ct left a bad taste in player's mouths (and really, ct had quite a few problems) and this stigma perpetuated through the revisions.
for those arguing about needing a 'true sequel' how would you explain sf4's relative stable turnout? that's had quite a few revisions as well.
vanilla > super > ae > 2012.
In fact, it's pretty much the same release rate as blazblue. they both release on approximately yearly cycles.
ct > cs1 > cs2 > extend
i'm fine with my local scene: so cal has meetups once a fortnight, and san diego has weekly meetups.
extend is a great game that should be getting more exposure, but hte evo announcement certainly didn't help. if i had to guess, bb's low numbers are due to the fact that ct left a bad taste in player's mouths (and really, ct had quite a few problems) and this stigma perpetuated through the revisions.
for those arguing about needing a 'true sequel' how would you explain sf4's relative stable turnout? that's had quite a few revisions as well.
vanilla > super > ae > 2012.
In fact, it's pretty much the same release rate as blazblue. they both release on approximately yearly cycles.
ct > cs1 > cs2 > extend
i'm fine with my local scene: so cal has meetups once a fortnight, and san diego has weekly meetups.
SF is a much bigger name, and SF4 peaked with Super really, Divekick edition hurt the game, and I don't think AE fully recovered, though SFxTK's reception helped to give AE a 2nd wind.
cj_iwakura
Member
Even though EVO's giving BB the finger, James Xie's taken up the mantle:
www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14155-BlazBlue-Continuum-Shift-Extend-at-EVO2k12
Hopefully someone streams it or something.
And I don't play GG when I'm dissatisfied with BB. They're wildly different games if you ask me.
www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?14155-BlazBlue-Continuum-Shift-Extend-at-EVO2k12
Hopefully someone streams it or something.
And I don't play GG when I'm dissatisfied with BB. They're wildly different games if you ask me.
sixteen-bit
Member
BB finals were pretty thrilling last Evo, I hope there is a good talent turnout this year at the side tourney.
Master Milk
Member
I'm off Mon/Wed/Fri this week, so let's get some games going.
Mike mentioned somewhere that he probably wouldn't be playing BB competitively.
Mike mentioned somewhere that he probably wouldn't be playing BB competitively.
If you guys are bored, Norcal Install just started its blazblue tournament on www.twitch.tv/finestko
SolarPowered
Member
They do have to ease up on all these releases. I also don't blame tournaments for scaling things back when numbers aren't keeping up. I think expectations are kinda out of whack sometimes though. Haunts wrote a piece about in IPW. It was about the crazy expectations that people had for BB and other non Capcom fighters that built a sort of divide between different communities. BB's numbers at tournaments would have been great during the pre SFIV era, but now those numbers look terrible(and keep going down) and the stigma that came with those numbers started to paint players from both sides in a really negative light.
I can't blame you there. Litchi takes a lot to learn. I can't imagine how frustrating it can be to learn so many new combos and changes for a character like her. Bang felt really different for me in each version and he feels like a relatively simple character in the grand scheme of things.
Yep, it's not black and white, but ASW does need to slow it's roll a bit. CS2 did help from a balance standpoint(Rachel improved, Tsubaki was a bit better, Bang/Litchi were toned down a bit), but their balancing style makes playing their games really rough. Sometimes their changes can be awesome, but other times it can be kind of daunting. It still surprises me to know that I've played three different versions of Bang(didn't play much CS2, but I played the rest).
There is if you have never owned any of the other games and want a content packed game. It has unlockable palettes, art, announcers, a CT recap, all the CS stories and all the characters until now. It's still got the best non GGPO netcode, spectator, replays and good lobby options as well. It also helps that the game is actually pretty well balanced outside of Ragna shenanigans.
I don't see any reason not to get it for cheap at least.
Yeah, it's not that comparable. The Capcom community doesn't really go elsewhere outside of SF and Mahvel. They've got the games they'll be playing for a long time. ASW guys just fan out to all types of games if they aren't feeling BB.
I think it was in this podcast. It was a really good listen.
cj_iwakura
Member
I still main her. I have some older videos I uploaded, but I've improved, so they're not quite representative of my current skills with her.
Incidentally, her combos in this version are pretty easy (except for some midscreen stuff, like most 2D starters) and the full prorate corner combo (5B[m] start) is an easier version of a combo that she had in CS2. Instead, they've given her about a billion different hit confirms and made it so that staffless hit confirming is harder, ensuring that Litchi will perpetually be seen as beginner unfriendly.
But those aren't really her problems in this version. LK has discussed this in the past, but really what makes it stink to be a Litchi fan in this version is that it's so, so hard to get rewarded as her. Her damage is just bad and unless she gets a strong hit (Itsuu, CH) she can't carry midscreen. Of course, Litchi's powerhouse oki means that she'll always be able to get wins, but it doesn't feel like you're accomplishing anything until the round is over, and there are too many situations where characters with similar tools reap much greater rewards: Ragna is arguably as effective a neutral zoner as she is and he gets carry from almost everything as well as dealing more damage and gaining more meter.
Japan's best players have demonstrated that Litchi is more than capable of being successful in CSEX; they just seem bent on making it damn hard for her, and it's frustrating to see Ragna get 3k+ off of anything and Hakumen get such huge rewards midscreen while Litchi has lost her primary source of oki and she can no longer combo off of her two main overheads midscreen.
VanillaPMP
Neo Member
Gonna pick this up tomorrow. I haven't touched BB since CS1, but I have some free time over the summer and have gotten bored of SF4. I used to play Hazama, but am interested in Relius and Mu; however they seem like they may be too technical for someone without a lot of experience with BB. Thought/advice?
All three of these characters are viable choices for the current revision of the game, and your ability to play them will depend more on how much time you're willing to put in rather than difficulty inherent to playing the character.
Master Milk
Member
Platinum is ready to take on all challengers.
Master Milk
Member
Not that I suspect anyone will want to play, but I'll be online in a few minutes
And what happened to dementia?
And what happened to dementia?
Master Milk
Member
Alright Solar, you better be getting ready for your beatdowns. >.>
still no clue what happened to dementia . . .
and three posts in a row, you guys suck so much
still no clue what happened to dementia . . .
and three posts in a row, you guys suck so much
Prototype-03
Member
This OT should be re-titled to "Blazblue Continuum Shift EXTEND |OT| - Master Milk's Journal"
Master Milk
Member
Heh, maybe when 3 drops.
Anyway, I need help getting better. People should play me.
cj_iwakura
Member
I'll be doing some BB tomorrow evening or so.
Master Milk
Member
Had to work tonight, looks like I missed ya
I've wasted so much time trying to help you get better and you never listen to me!
Master Milk
Member
I can't help it. Old habits are hard to break. It's not like I'm disregarding your advice, it just takes time.
SolarPowered
Member
I was interested in Litchi and Rachel in CT, but they felt too difficult to use. She continues to baffle me even now. I have no idea where to start with that character at all.
I didn't know that about Litchi. I always figured she was fine since she had so many ways to get pressure her opponent. Ragna is BS though. The guy was pretty good in CS1. There was no need to go overboard with him. Tsubaki being retooled and improved is understandable. Tager was also a worthy candidate for big buffs, but not Ragna...
I've never seen Hakumen as a problem in any version of BB. It seems like you really need to know the matchups if you use him unlike Ragna and Bang who can be more reckless in comparison. Valk scares me far more than Hakumen tbh.
I'm also sorry about the late response. I rarely see this thread on the first page and I'm usually busy with other stuff. Skullgirls is practically the only fighter I play besides this one and I don't even have that much time with SG as it is...
I've been glancing at the top right part of my screen in anticipation of a PM and nothing...
I even spent a big chunk of my Saturday morning training up a bit while UFGT8 was revving up.
I can't count how many times I've heard that from high level players. It's not that easy. People who say that must be extraordinary or forgetful because improving can be hard as hell sometimes. It's especially hard when the community is sparse.
cj_iwakura
Member
I can't be the only one filled with an urge to kill things upon hearing Platinum's Japanese voice. Also, LiEUTENANT's Jin still scares me.
Master Milk
Member
I share that feeling, though probably not the same way. Plat's system voice is so awesome.
I played that guy the other day. Got thoroughly destroyed.
cj_iwakura
Member
I think at one point he was literally the highest ranked player on PSN, in the CT era.
The problem is that I've played you guys, and you're getting caught up in the easy stuff. I haven't played you in a long time so I can't really help you, but I know for a fact that Master Milk cannot hitconfirm properly in the corner, and that's so fundamental to winning at BB that I don't really see the point in playing if you can't do that; if you can't get big damage in the corner, you need to hit your opponent at neutral like thirty times to win a match. In contrast, I need to hit closer to five times because I can convert every hit into damage. And this is totally backwards, because Platinum's damage is a lot better than Litchi's so the game's balance depends on him landing less hits than I do. Learning how to hitconfirm is straightfoward: Learn your combo thoroughly (time-consuming and frustrating, but straightforward) and then put the computer on random block and try to land your combo directly from your blockstring.
I know just as well as anyone how hard it is to improve. BB was my first real fighting game, and I've received little help along the way. But I've tried to be helpful; I've typed up numerous posts where I've given specific advice to people. What more do you want?
Also, you would be amazed at how much better you will get at the game by pressing less buttons. This isn't hard advice to implement; all you have to do is make a conscious effort about the buttons you're pressing. If you cannot justify pressing a button, then don't do it.
Midscreen: 5B[m] 5C[m] 3C[m] 623D
Corner: 5B[m] 2C[m] 6D(2) (TK) Hatsu Haku Chuun Haku Hatsu Riichi A Ippatsu A Hatsu 5[D] Chuun ]D[ 6D 5B 6C(1) 4Kote j.B dj.BCD delayed falling j.C 66A (Kokushi)
She is fine from a balance perspective. She is not fine from a fun perspective. The amount of effort it takes to win as Litchi is much greater than it is for some other characters.
Hakumen is brain dead in this version. You need matchup knowledge to play every character at a high level so it's irrelevant, but in mid-level play, if you can hit confirm you can deal so much damage that you only need to be smart enough to land a handful of hits anyway, and that's not all that difficult considering Hakumen has history's greatest normals.
Lieutenant had the most wins out of any US player in CS1/2, but he was never number one overall. Also, sorting by wins doesn't give you the best player; a more accurate measure of best player would be to sort by PSR and then throw out every player with less than, say, 500 games played. Lieutenant isn't all that great, though. His extremely aggressive play style is built for ranked and he gets worse if you pay attention and watch what he's doing. I beat him about half of the time that I play him, and there were a few months in the CS1 era where I beat him repeatedly.
Master Milk
Member
This is all you, man. I told you when I'd definitely be around to play, and I was.
Do you not have this thread subscribed? You not check your subscriptions?
SolarPowered
Member
GG Fugu. I kinda expected you to be even better than that. I still got my ass whooped, but it was not as bad as I expected it to be. I can't do combos for shit right now. I'm also free to throws. 
My bad
I never really make use of it. I also saw your message, but you were already offline for 61 minutes by the time I saw it. I was busy calibrating my TV since I have better glasses now. I did play like 25 matches with Fugu a little while before the message must have hit. You literally missed me by a hair...
My bad
I am terrible against Bang. Also, that was my first time playing in two or three months and it was kinda laggy (not the game, but this TV I'm playing on has input lag). Besides, how much better did you expect me to be? I beat you like 20 rounds in a row!
HERE, I WILL DEMONSTRATE MY TIP-GIVING POWER BY GIVING TIPS.
- Stop chicken blocking. It's difficult to punish as Litchi but it is incredibly dangerous and it will get you hurt.
- If you're going to chicken block, barrier.
- Stop jumping out of the corner. See: Free to throws
- Learn how to hitconfirm in the corner. Your damage in the corner isn't good.
- Learn FC/RC combos off of that stupid low slide move (I think it's 3C); that should get you like 5k midscreen, whereas you're getting closer to 3k.
- Learn some more pressure strings. Overheads from 5A are extremely strong and difficult to block (especially online, as you've no doubt seen) but when you do it every time it's not tough. Your blockstrings, as a whole, are very flowchart; you jump cancel in the same place every time, and although you started doing things other than the crossup, most of those things didn't work because they all lose to me standing there and they put me at an advantage because you're off doing something like j.D and it's not even going to hit me because I know better than to try to punish the crossup in the air. Jab pressure with Bang is so strong that often, you don't even need his other moves, so work on that. This is probably the most important advice I can give you.
- When you hit an opponent with D nails and they don't tech, stop hitting them. You *want* them to tech on the ground. From my perspective, it is desirable to let you do an extra ~700 damage (the prorate on D nails is awful) in exchange for the opportunity to more safely tech out of the air instead of on the ground. The only time you should continue a black beat combo off of D nails is if it's going to kill them or you want to try some gimmicky command grab reset. Speaking of which...
- Stop using shitty resets. They work online (sometimes) but they won't work anywhere else. I actually suspect that you're not doing this on purpose and it's because you can't hitconfirm 5A properly, which I admit is a difficult thing to do, but if that's the case you need to pad your blockstrings (do 5A 5B or something) to create scenarios where, hit or block, the gatling will still perform the desired result -- combo on hit, safe string on block, just a 5A on whiff. This is sort of a bad habit to get into, but it's better than resetting 5A into your overhead.
- Use your command grab. It's good, and command grab RC combos do a lot of damage and/or seals.
- Use 6D. The other ones are kind of bad neutral, except for j.D.
- Stop using 0 nails umbrella. It is completely worthless, and it only works online because the timing to dash out of it is somewhat strict. I can think of about a billion better uses for that meter.
- Learn how to combo things into Daifunka. The damage isn't amazing, but the free corner carry from anywhere on the screen is.
- Don't use poison nail if I'm already poisoned. What's the point?
- Don't tech roll thirteen orphans.
- When you see Daisharin come out, put as much distance between it and yourself as possible. You absolutely do not want to get caught blocking it under any circumstances. Don't try to go on the offence (unless you think you can grab me) because the Litchi player has such an enormous advantage when Daisharin is out that the odds of that working for you aren't good: The Litchi player (hopefully) knows how they input the Daisharin, so they know where it's going to be and when. You don't.
- Jump a lot less. One way you can work on this is to play some rounds that you don't expect to win and focus on trying to get in on the ground. It is imperative that you have a strong ground game in BB despite the fact that most people just spend their time flying around in the air; it comes in handy a lot to have the confidence to get in on the ground.
You play this weird run-away Bang that takes some getting used to because Bang is really, really irritating to chase. I've literally never had so many time-outs or near time-outs in one set of matches. It's an interesting game plan, and you might be able to make it work.
HERE, I WILL DEMONSTRATE MY TIP-GIVING POWER BY GIVING TIPS.
- Stop chicken blocking. It's difficult to punish as Litchi but it is incredibly dangerous and it will get you hurt.
- If you're going to chicken block, barrier.
- Stop jumping out of the corner. See: Free to throws
- Learn how to hitconfirm in the corner. Your damage in the corner isn't good.
- Learn FC/RC combos off of that stupid low slide move (I think it's 3C); that should get you like 5k midscreen, whereas you're getting closer to 3k.
- Learn some more pressure strings. Overheads from 5A are extremely strong and difficult to block (especially online, as you've no doubt seen) but when you do it every time it's not tough. Your blockstrings, as a whole, are very flowchart; you jump cancel in the same place every time, and although you started doing things other than the crossup, most of those things didn't work because they all lose to me standing there and they put me at an advantage because you're off doing something like j.D and it's not even going to hit me because I know better than to try to punish the crossup in the air. Jab pressure with Bang is so strong that often, you don't even need his other moves, so work on that. This is probably the most important advice I can give you.
- When you hit an opponent with D nails and they don't tech, stop hitting them. You *want* them to tech on the ground. From my perspective, it is desirable to let you do an extra ~700 damage (the prorate on D nails is awful) in exchange for the opportunity to more safely tech out of the air instead of on the ground. The only time you should continue a black beat combo off of D nails is if it's going to kill them or you want to try some gimmicky command grab reset. Speaking of which...
- Stop using shitty resets. They work online (sometimes) but they won't work anywhere else. I actually suspect that you're not doing this on purpose and it's because you can't hitconfirm 5A properly, which I admit is a difficult thing to do, but if that's the case you need to pad your blockstrings (do 5A 5B or something) to create scenarios where, hit or block, the gatling will still perform the desired result -- combo on hit, safe string on block, just a 5A on whiff. This is sort of a bad habit to get into, but it's better than resetting 5A into your overhead.
- Use your command grab. It's good, and command grab RC combos do a lot of damage and/or seals.
- Use 6D. The other ones are kind of bad neutral, except for j.D.
- Stop using 0 nails umbrella. It is completely worthless, and it only works online because the timing to dash out of it is somewhat strict. I can think of about a billion better uses for that meter.
- Learn how to combo things into Daifunka. The damage isn't amazing, but the free corner carry from anywhere on the screen is.
- Don't use poison nail if I'm already poisoned. What's the point?
- Don't tech roll thirteen orphans.
- When you see Daisharin come out, put as much distance between it and yourself as possible. You absolutely do not want to get caught blocking it under any circumstances. Don't try to go on the offence (unless you think you can grab me) because the Litchi player has such an enormous advantage when Daisharin is out that the odds of that working for you aren't good: The Litchi player (hopefully) knows how they input the Daisharin, so they know where it's going to be and when. You don't.
- Jump a lot less. One way you can work on this is to play some rounds that you don't expect to win and focus on trying to get in on the ground. It is imperative that you have a strong ground game in BB despite the fact that most people just spend their time flying around in the air; it comes in handy a lot to have the confidence to get in on the ground.
You play this weird run-away Bang that takes some getting used to because Bang is really, really irritating to chase. I've literally never had so many time-outs or near time-outs in one set of matches. It's an interesting game plan, and you might be able to make it work.
Master Milk
Member
is there a way to make the game restart in the corner when in training mode?