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[Onemic]

Are you actually arguing that Litchi has better tools than Bang in CSEX? That's a joke. Bang is Litchi's worst matchup in CSEX.

Stop jumping into the staff. Play more aggressively. Your pressure is stronger than hers at close range by a wide margin.


A gatling is the equivalent of a special cancel but for normal moves. It refers to the property that allows one normal to cancel into another normal if you input them successively (as in while the previous one is still active). The most common gatling across characters is 5A 5B 5C. Nearly every character has a 5A that gatlings (normal cancels) back into itself a maximum of three times; after that, you must dash cancel or wait to get another 5A. A gatling table will list all of the possible normals that one move can cancel into. For example, Litchi's 5B[m] (all of my examples are going to be Litchi-related as I don't know shit about any other character):

5B[m] > 6A[m] 6B[m] 2B[m] 5C[m] 2C[m] 6C[m] 3C[m] 4D 6D 5D 2D

This is a very typical gatling table and demonstrates some properties very typical of gatlings. For starters, most moves do not gatling into normals with a more diverse gatling table; all of the moves on that list have less possible gatlings than 5B[m] does. The consequence of this is that the more normals you use in a row, the less gatlings you will have available to you. For example, let's say I score a counterhit 5B[m] so I decide to use 6C[m]. 6C[m]'s gatling table looks like this:

6C[m] > 5D 2D

Now, all I can do, normal-wise, is drop the staff (that's what 5D and 2D do) and my combo is over*. Given that information, the idea behind constructing combos based on gatlings is to build routes that get to endpoints like this as slow as possible. So, instead of going into 6C[m], I could go into 5C[m], which has a gatling table that looks like this:

5C[m] > 3C[m] 4D 6D 5D 2D

Now I have the option to do more normals. 4D and 6D don't combo (they're too slow) and 5D and 2D just drop the staff, so I can continue my combo with 3C[m].

3C[m] > 5D 2D

3C[m] has no useful gatlings but is special cancellable, meaning I can now use tsubame gaeshi (623D), Litchi's DP. And that right there is Litchi's plain hit staff BnB: 5B[m] 5C[m] 3C[m] 623D. There are some moves that have gatlings that create loops but these gatlings are only useful for a limited amount of times. For example, Litchi's 5B gatlings back to 5A (which subsequently gatlings back to 5B), but you can only do it once; if you want to do it again, you have to stop attacking or interrupt it with a dash.

*Not really, but it's not relevant to this discussion. 6C[m] is jump cancellable, so you can IAD towards them and combo them some more.

So it's pretty much the combo system in BB? So you can pretty much make custom combos for yourself based on a characters respective gatling tables then?

EDIT: aw man you guys already started playing?

 

[Noi]

Agh, still can't get Calamity Sword to come out reliably on stick. I normally use it a lot more instead of sitting on all that meter, but I don't have the input for it OR Legacy Edge.

Edit: Onemic just took the last spot in the lobby.

 

[Fugu]

Easier said than done. Certain starters lead to bigger combos and bursts are limited in availability. Litchi is the kind of character that can carry you pretty far even off a miniscule hit confirm. If every single button led to the same damage and setup(or a character's moveset were very limited) then looking for appropriate burst times would be a piece of cake, but that is certainly not the case.

Your basic idea is correct though.

Yep, Nu wants to be in midscreen chucking those swords and gravity wells all day.

Running out of nails against her in particular is scary.

If you fuck up and eat a whole combo, it is better to not burst at the end and deal with the knockdown (and burst if you get hit again after that) than it is to burst at the end. Bursting in the air is almost always a bad idea as the other guy will wake up before you hit the ground and have time to walk back up to you. Also, most characters have pretty predictable openers after you know to look for them; it's not impossible. Litchi, for example, gets less than 3k off of a midscreen staff hit unless it's from Itsuu, so don't burst those.

Yeah, but so is getting hit in the face.

Yes we're still playing, but the lobby is full. I'll invite you if someone leaves.

Onemic: You can make up your combos, but people have already figured out most of them. Most combos are built from small clumps of gatlings held together by special cancels, dashing, jumps, or whacky crap like Itsuu.

 

[Onemic]

Damn it, dinner time

 

[Fugu]

I wish I could just spectate my own lobby so someone could take my spot.

EDIT: Take my damn invite

Here's what a typical full combo looks like. The bolded are clumps of gatlings.

Litchi's -1 RC to corner combo:

5B[m] 2C[m] 6D(1) RC 66 2B[m] 6B[m] 66 6D(2) TK Hatsu Haku Chuun Haku Hatsu Ippatsu A Riichi A Tanki Hatsu 5[D] Chuun ]D[ 6D(2) 5B 6C(1) 4Kote j.B dj.BCD falling j.C 66A

Lots of gatlings, but lots of other stuff too.

 

[Onemic]

I wish I could just spectate my own lobby so someone could take my spot.

EDIT: Take my damn invite

Here's what a typical full combo looks like. The bolded are clumps of gatlings.

Litchi's -1 RC to corner combo:

5B[m] 2C[m] 6D(1) RC 66 2B[m] 6B[m] 66 6D(2) TK Hatsu Haku Chuun Haku Hatsu Ippatsu A Riichi A Tanki Hatsu 5[D] Chuun ]D[ 6D(2) 5B 6C(1) 4Kote j.B dj.BCD falling j.C 66A

Lots of gatlings, but lots of other stuff too.

full room is full

That's pretty cool. So at this point then is there any point in learning the gatling tables if most of them are already figured out and on dustloop as BnB's?

 

[Fugu]

You absolutely must must must learn your character's gatling tables. Learning your gatling tables will make learning your combos easier and will make the formation of blockstrings -- which must be original, or else people will block them -- possible. I would argue that getting comfortable with your character's gatlings is the first thing you should do when you learn that character.

There's room in the lobby again.

 

[Noi]

I think that's the first time I ever fight a human controlled Platinum. Like, ever.

Edit: How long are the startup frames on Platinum's Cat item? It comes really fast.

 

[Fugu]

She is a difficult matchup to learn.

Also, Azure vs. MM is what I've been waiting for. Closely-matched players-- RANDOM SPAM BATS EVERYWHERE

Onemic, add me so I can invite you.

 

[Master Milk]

Dammit Fugu, what did you do?

 

[Fugu]

I won too hard.

PSN is being wonky. I'm making a new lobby.

 

[SolarPowered]

She is a difficult matchup to learn.

Also, Azure vs. MM is what I've been waiting for. Closely-matched players-- RANDOM SPAM BATS EVERYWHERE

Bats all over the place

 

[Master Milk]

I . . . u_u

 

[Fugu]

I . . . u_u

This explains less than you might think it does.

 

[Master Milk]

This explains less than you might think it does.

The room is hating. I just wanna go wild with Platinum.

BB Frame Data

Cat Hammer comes out in 11 frames.

 

[Fugu]

You guys don't know it but halfway through that second round, you guys saw the greatest hitconfirm of all time (staff2 dash 6B 2C[m] 6D(2)).

 

[SolarPowered]

I don't have much of a problem with Platinum.

The real menace is the panda wearing tease.

 

[Fugu]

I don't have much of a problem with Platinum.

The real menace is the panda wearing tease.

Try playing as her.

 

[SolarPowered]

I think you are taking harmless fun way waaaay too personally.

 

[Fugu]

I think you are taking harmless fun way waaaay too personally.

No I meant that as a serious suggestion. Text is unclear sometimes.

 

[Prototype-03]

I think you are taking harmless fun way waaaay too personally.

Hands off the Panda

 

[Fugu]

Hands off the Panda

I choose to forget that Litchi has an english VA. Comments like these do not help.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Well, that was fun. Too bad I was destroyed by just about everyone. Fugu, you Litchi is too mean. I was laughing/crying when you went kicking me around the pole just for fun ;_;

Still, I noticed a lot of problems with my game. I panic easily and always mess up my 360/720, and I really need to pick up some BnB, instead of waiting for 6C to land and save me when playing Tager. Hakumen needs a long time in the lab though till I get a good feel of his combos.

 

[Prototype-03]

I choose to forget that Litchi has an english VA. Comments like these do not help.

It's actually Noel saying it when she fights against Litchi. I think it's every time she uses Optic Barrel, she says "Hands off the Panda!"

 

[Fugu]

It's actually Noel saying it when she fights against Litchi. I think it's every time she uses Optic Barrel, she says "Hands off the Panda!"

Oh yeah you're right. Wow, I really have been out of BB for awhile.

Well, that was fun. Too bad I was destroyed by just about everyone. Fugu, you Litchi is too mean. I was laughing/crying when you went kicking me around the pole just for fun ;_;

Still, I noticed a lot of problems with my game. I panic easily and always mess up my 360/720, and I really need to pick up some BnB, instead of waiting for 6C to land and save me when playing Tager. Hakumen needs a long time in the lab though till I get a good feel of his combos.

I think your Hakumen is stronger than your Tager right now, but you probably play Tager better. He is a more difficult character to win with; expect to lose to players that you are better than for a long time. Any time you want to play, let me know.

If you want to get better in a hurry, I would stop playing other players for a little while and learn some combos; you're not at the point yet where you have to worry so much about playstyle considerations because you're losing matches largely on the basis that you don't know how to deal a lot of damage.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I choose to forget that Litchi has an english VA. Comments like these do not help.

Noel actually says that, but I use dub VA and like it, so...


So. Dark Tsubaki.

 

[Noi]

Bursting in the air is fun.

I really need to stop my over-reliance on 5C outside of combos. It's nice, but it gets me hit with Litchi's j. attacks every time.

 

[Onemic]

You absolutely must must must learn your character's gatling tables. Learning your gatling tables will make learning your combos easier and will make the formation of blockstrings -- which must be original, or else people will block them -- possible. I would argue that getting comfortable with your character's gatlings is the first thing you should do when you learn that character.

There's room in the lobby again.

How does it make learning already present combos easier? And ya, I noticed dustloop doesn't have any blockstrings available for any characters. So using gatling tables creates true blockstrings?

Currently I'm learning Bang's standing/crouching midscreen BnB's off of 5A before going into his combos that go into his drives. So I should be learning his gatling tables before all this?

 

[Fugu]

5C spam is shit and it only works online. Stop doing it before it becomes a habit.

Learning your gatlings makes learning combos easier because it means that when a combo has a gatling in it, you don't have to learn how the timing feels because you'll already know it.

You don't have to memorize them (as in, don't stare at the chart), but you should be able to feel them out.

Stop reading NeoGAF. It's your turn to play.

 

[NEO0MJ]

If you want to get better in a hurry, I would stop playing other players for a little while and learn some combos; you're not at the point yet where you have to worry so much about playstyle considerations because you're losing matches largely on the basis that you don't know how to deal a lot of damage.

Will keep that in mind. Guess I'll just stick with those two for now and really try to think of ways to advance with them, especially Tager. I feel that I can approach easier with Hakumen, but then I only land two hit combos at best.

 

[Onemic]

As hard as Hakumens combos are, it seems like Im more succesful with him in matches than bang. I actually got Litchi below 50% health woot!

 

[Fugu]

As hard as Hakumens combos are, it seems like Im more succesful with him in matches than bang. I actually got Litchi below 50% health woot!

Heh, I sort of got in a "combo practice" mindset and I got hit by a ton of counters that I shouldn't have. I would agree though. You space a lot better with him.

 

[Onemic]

ggs! Those matches with Hakumen sorta make me wanna stick it out with him, but man are his combos the most frustrating thing ever to get down.

 

[Fugu]

Ggs everyone. I sort of hate playing online but it's still fun.

 

[Noi]

Good stuff Fugu. I don't think I quite made any headway into getting Litchi off me, but at least those matches made me remember a lot of Lambda's other moves. Also need to keep in mind that doing Act Parser B in a blockstring against Litchi isn't always a good idea.

Back to the lab for me though. Aside from learning more BnBs/Gatling strings, I should really learn what my options are against that kind of rushdown.

...The Lambda vs Litchi thread on Dustloop has like 2 posts, with the second one being a bunch of videos. I guess I'll take a look.

 

[Fugu]

You should probably just never use Act Parser B in pressure.

 

[Solune]

Just wanted to say, you have no idea how many times I tried to pushblock Proto, and my pushblock button is my throw/tech button and then means I eat CH for days. Also I think I got hit by like 15 AHs LOL. God I'm so ass at this game.

 

[Quadratic]

I just got the game for the Vita. How do I beat Hamaza with Noel in the story mode? He seems impossible to defeat.

 

[Fugu]

I just got the game for the Vita. How do I beat Hamaza with Noel in the story mode? He seems impossible to defeat.

I'll give you the same advice I gave to everyone else: Stop jumping.

Just wanted to say, you have no idea how many times I tried to pushblock Proto, and my pushblock button is my throw/tech button and then means I eat CH for days. Also I think I got hit by like 15 AHs LOL. God I'm so ass at this game.

Why would you do that to yourself? All he has to do is input a backdash while you're trying to barrier block and all of a sudden you've just grabbed no one and he can hit you for free.

 

[Prototype-03]

Why would you do that to yourself? All he has to do is input a backdash while you're trying to barrier block and all of a sudden you've just grabbed no one and he can hit you for free.

He's used to UMvC3 pushblock.

 

[Fugu]

He's used to UMvC3 pushblock.

Oh, I misread. I thought he was using the ABC bind to barrier.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I'll give you the same advice I gave to everyone else: Stop jumping.

Pretty much. He will always, always catch you if you come from the air. Other than that, just play on begginer. It's what I did to win the the characters i have no idea how to play with.

Speaking of Arcade mode, I hate the endings in this game. Recycling the same ending to all but 4 of the characters was lame of them. Nothing like Arakune's CT ending where we saw how he slowly went insane.

 

[Prototype-03]

Oh, I misread. I thought he was using the ABC bind to barrier.

Yo, you need to come to the dark side (p4a)

 

[Fugu]

Buying it today. I'm playing as the chick with the fans.

 

[kirblar]

Bought Extend, started playing around w/ it again, quickly realized "I really need to be playing on Stick, huh?"

 

[Fugu]

Bought Extend, started playing around w/ it again, quickly realized "I really need to be playing on Stick, huh?"

Some of Canada's best players play on pad; it's doable, you just need to utilize the triggers.

 

[Hex]

Sooooo I am coming to the dark side.
Persona Arena is my gateway drug, and I just ordered BBCSExtend.
I bought the first Blazblue on the PS3 day one but honestly never got into it enough because I ended up selling my collection soon after and I was pretty much just doing Street Fighter IV at the time.
Any resources to recommend?

 

[Fugu]

Who do you want to play as?

System mechanics are best taught by the tutorial.

 

[kirblar]

Some of Canada's best players play on pad; it's doable, you just need to utilize the triggers.

It's actually the inputs/command normals - I have a Saturn Pad and will try it out tonight, but it definitely feels like this is not the game for a pad.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Who do you want to play as?

System mechanics are best taught by the tutorial.

And dustloop if you want to find combos and general character strategies.