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Bloodborne |OT++++| Now with Trusty Patches

Beat Ebrietas today! Far and away the most difficult boss for me so far, and it probably took me over ten tries before I finally beat her. It was the first time I felt that something was actually cheap in this game (specifically her charge attack, which has a HUGE hitbox that extends past her character model). Felt good to finally take her down.

Finished up Yahar'gul tonight and I think I'll start the DLC now. I love that it's incorporated into the game and isn't a separate thing.
 

Soulhouf

Member
Oh, can you do me a favor? I have no idea if anyone is as pedantic as I am, so I'm not sure how long it will take for good pictures of all the great swords and ultra great swords of DS3 to surface.

If I can find the exact giant sword design I want to use, it makes the difference between whether I get DS3 day one or if I play something else for now. Do you think you can take decent pics of the ones you find at your convenience?

Sure no problem.

As of right now, I think Dark Souls 2 has the best giant sword design, but I hear SO many foreboding things about that game.

Not to go off topic but they completely screwed up the design of the Claymore in DS2.
 

Veelk

Banned
Sure no problem.

Not to go off topic but they completely screwed up the design of the Claymore in DS2.

Appreciate it.

The claymore ain't big enough anyway. I ask for the purposes of building a kind of Gut's build, so it's going to be something you shouldn't be able to wield no matter what. The actual efficiency of the weapon isn't really important to me so long as it's functional enough.

Dark Souls 2 has the closest weapon I've found in the Greatsword, though it's not perfect. I don't want it to be so damaged looking, and I prefer to get nongeneric weapons when possible. The Moonlight Sword also looks good, possibly the next runner up, though it looks too magic-y and I'm trying to keep things physical the Gut's build. You'd think a series as inspired by Berserk as this one would be swimming in choices, but every other sword has some minor and trivial aesthetic feature that simply isn't what I'm looking for.
 

Soulhouf

Member
Appreciate it.

The claymore ain't big enough anyway. I ask for the purposes of building a kind of Gut's build, so it's going to be something you shouldn't be able to wield no matter what. The actual efficiency of the weapon isn't really important to me so long as it's functional enough.

Dark Souls 2 has the closest weapon I've found in the Greatsword, though it's not perfect. I don't want it to be so damaged looking, and I prefer to get nongeneric weapons when possible. The Moonlight Sword also looks good, possibly the next runner up, though it looks too magic-y and I'm trying to keep things physical the Gut's build. You'd think a series as inspired by Berserk as this one would be swimming in choices, but every other sword has some minor and trivial aesthetic feature that simply isn't what I'm looking for.

If it's the dragon slayer build that you want to do, my favorite is this weapon from Demon's Souls:

4999027199_16de16986f.jpg


It doesn't look exactly like it but it's blunt, very heavy and it's called Dragon Bone Smasher.

Other than that, yes, DS2 has the closest looking weapon to the Dragon Slayer.
 

grmlin

Member
Yesterday I tried to run for the beast hunter saif after beating Amelia. Haha, the DLC is no joke at somewhat around bl 37.

I made it pretty far but the dogs got me in the end. Well, I think the old hunter would not have been ok with me getting up the ladder anyway. So threaded cane it is for the moment.
How is the Reiterpallasch in PvE with a skill build?
 

Veelk

Banned
If it's the dragon slayer build that you want to do, my favorite is this weapon from Demon's Souls:

It doesn't look exactly like it but it's blunt, very heavy and it's called Dragon Bone Smasher.

Other than that, yes, DS2 has the closest looking weapon to the Dragon Slayer.

I saw that one, but I'm not a fan. How it ends at the tip, specifically. I don't want a Dragon Slayer replica, exactly. For me, there is nothing worse than trying to make a character into one from another game. All I ever see is the discrepancies that shout how different they are. It's more that I want to make a Gut's inspired character. I mean, one major difference I'll have is that the Guts I make is going to be a woman instead of a man, for example, but close to Guts in...identity, I guess you'd say. So as far as swords go, I just need it to 1. be huge and 2. look cool. From Dark Souls 1, the closest weapon to that might probably be Artorias' weapon, though it has plenty clear differences with the Dragon Slayer too in terms of looks, but it's not quite the right sword either. I'm hoping that DS3 is the one that has the single one I absolutely just NEED to use. The souls series has plenty weapons in general I really like, but not many giant swords I'm crazy about.

I am stupidly picky about this, I know, but I can't help it.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Im going in with the npc that you can summon just at the stairs, he gets killed fairly quickly, so Im thinking in summoning some coop AND the npc lols.

Just to be sure.

Oh and I aint using the claws in this fight, I get one shoted all the time.

Oh that reminded me, it was the npc partner I had there, just forgot. I thought he was ideal for what he had to do: distract him so I could get my hits in
 
I saw that one, but I'm not a fan. How it ends at the tip, specifically. I don't want a Dragon Slayer replica, exactly. For me, there is nothing worse than trying to make a character into one from another game. All I ever see is the discrepancies that shout how different they are. It's more that I want to make a Gut's inspired character. I mean, one major difference I'll have is that the Guts I make is going to be a woman instead of a man, for example, but close to Guts in...identity, I guess you'd say. So as far as swords go, I just need it to 1. be huge and 2. look cool. From Dark Souls 1, the closest weapon to that might probably be Artorias' weapon, though it has plenty clear differences with the Dragon Slayer too in terms of looks, but it's not quite the right sword either. I'm hoping that DS3 is the one that has the single one I absolutely just NEED to use. The souls series has plenty weapons in general I really like, but not many giant swords I'm crazy about.

I am stupidly picky about this, I know, but I can't help it.
giphy.gif
 

Veelk

Banned

Only everything.

Honestly, worst case scenerio, I just sleep a bit on my next souls playthrough, and once I do, I'll instead go with a Gandalf character or a samurai build or fighter build, etc. I was thinking of having a Robin Hood character too.

I got plenty of options here.
 

Soulhouf

Member
Only everything.

Honestly, worst case scenerio, I just sleep a bit on my next souls playthrough, and once I do, I'll instead go with a Gandalf character or a samurai build or fighter build, etc.

I got plenty of options here.

Be honest, you'll end up with a Jack of all trades, master of none like you did in Bloodborne.
I can't believe this is the same person who says he's very picky :p

/joke
 

Veelk

Banned
Be honest, you'll end up with a Jack of all trades, master of none like you did in Bloodborne.
I can't believe this is the same person who says he's very picky :p

/joke

Oh, I specialize. Why do you think I've never bothered to try the Chikage until I offhandedly tried to use it against the giant sharks? I've had 50 Bloodtinge since half the game ago and frankly it's the better weapon. More moves, stronger kick...But my character was a fencer-gunner sort, so I've been sticking to the handgun-rapier that are appropriate for that. It's why I am even considering using the Rakuyo, since it's more of a saber than a katana, even if it and the Chikage are apparently from the same place. I probably only used the Chikage for 20 minutes total, but the point is that I can use it, the same way I had no issue whipping out Ludwig's Holy Blade against Ludwig just because it was thematically appropriate for that one fight.

What pisses me off is a game going "Can't let you do that, Veelk" when I want to use something else. Then we have a problem, game, I'll use what I want. It's why atleast Dark Souls 1 will be convienent. I have it on PC. I'll level up for most of the game and keep to weapons to scale for the enemies I'm facing, but the moment I decide all of a sudden "Oh, hey, I want to try out this katana for a few seconds" and the game tries to prevent me, I have no issues looking to see if there is a hack that can just give me a buttload of souls so I can upgrade the stat I need. I'll be using a Giant Sword for 95% of the time in my guts build, but the moment I actually want to use a whip or whatever, I better be able to use it.

But lets say I do decide to go insane and cut myself out of 3/4's of the game content like you advise me to. You're talking to a guy who just said he will happily use the less effective weapon just for something as simple as not liking how the better one looks.

Knowing that, now try tell me "picky" doesn't apply to me :)
 

Veelk

Banned
BTW, one thing I'm curious about:

How much higher is the enemy damage output after NG+? I'm almost done leveling up my strength stat to 50, and after that, I will have a choice between leveling up vitality and arcane.

I really don't care about arcane for the most part. Except the Holy Moonlight Sword. That weapon is cool. On the other hand, if the enemies are going to tear through me like tissue, maybe it'd be better to get more health.

And after that...then the level ups get truly ridiculous and I don't think I have the patience for them.
 

Jito

Banned
Whoop got my plat today, first and only plat in fact.

So ready for Dark Souls 3 that I pre-ordered as soon as I was done.
 

myco666

Member
BTW, one thing I'm curious about:

How much higher is the enemy damage output after NG+? I'm almost done leveling up my strength stat to 50, and after that, I will have a choice between leveling up vitality and arcane.

I really don't care about arcane for the most part. Except the Holy Moonlight Sword. That weapon is cool. On the other hand, if the enemies are going to tear through me like tissue, maybe it'd be better to get more health.

And after that...then the level ups get truly ridiculous and I don't think I have the patience for them.

50 Vit is pretty much mandatory after NG+ endgame. Also Arcane at 50 isn't really optimal since it keeps scaling way after that so unless you are planning to get it to 80 or something go for Vit.
 

Veelk

Banned
Dark Souls 2 has this weapon which is the closest to the Dragon Slayer:

gattsuoul.jpg

The blade is fine, but the hilt is way too short and too thin, making it look awkward. Maybe it's a tad too large, which contributes to the disproportionately small looking hilt, and making it just slightly smaller can make that look like it wouldn't collapse in on itself the moment it's swung. And I don't like that two pronged pommel.

50 Vit is pretty much mandatory after NG+ endgame. Also Arcane at 50 isn't really optimal since it keeps scaling way after that so unless you are planning to get it to 80 or something go for Vit.

Yeesh. I think arcane is the only Stat I'll have to neglect then. The amount of souls I'd need to level it up to 80 is simply redonkulous.
 

myco666

Member
Yeesh. I think arcane is the only Stat I'll have to neglect then. The amount of souls I'd need to level it up to 80 is simply redonkulous.

If you plan only to use melee weapons with Arcane then 50 is fine as that is hardcap but if you want to get most out of the Hunter Tools you should go way higher. At least according to wiki they get good bonuses even up to 99.
 

Veelk

Banned
If you plan only to use melee weapons with Arcane then 50 is fine as that is hardcap but if you want to get most out of the Hunter Tools you should go way higher. At least according to wiki they get good bonuses even up to 99.

The Holy Moonlight Sword is literally the only arcane thing I want to use. I also use Old Hunter's Bone and Empty Phantasm Shell, but those only need 15 Arcane and I have that already.

That said, I want that Holy Moonlight Sword bad.

Also, can you tell me if I understand the caps correctly? Endurance caps at 40, Arcane at 80, and everything else is at 50?
 

myco666

Member
The Holy Moonlight Sword is literally the only arcane thing I want to use. I also use Old Hunter's Bone and Empty Phantasm Shell, but those only need 15 Arcane and I have that already.

That said, I want that Holy Moonlight Sword bad.

Also, can you tell me if I understand the caps correctly? Endurance caps at 40, Arcane at 80, and everything else is at 50?

Endurance caps at 40 yes. Arcane caps at 99 if you look the scaling for Hunter Tools. With weapon scaling everything caps at 50. Then there is stuff like Visceral Attack getting boost from Skill way past 50 and some gems add scaling so that you can go past hardcaps on anything.

As for HMS I remember it getting Arcane bonus only for the projectiles. Everything else should scale with Str and Skill. Might be wrong though since I haven't tested it that much.
 

Veelk

Banned
Endurance caps at 40 yes. Arcane caps at 99 if you look the scaling for Hunter Tools. With weapon scaling everything caps at 50. Then there is stuff like Visceral Attack getting boost from Skill way past 50 and some gems add scaling so that you can go past hardcaps on anything.

As for HMS I remember it getting Arcane bonus only for the projectiles. Everything else should scale with Str and Skill. Might be wrong though since I haven't tested it that much.

Does it now? I guess that's what I'll be scaling if I'm ever done with strength and vitality. Is there anything else that unofficially scales? And do you get more out of gems that add scaling or just ones that add generic stats like "+18% Physical attack"?

Hm...I might be able to get some use out of HMS without going nuts in Arcane after all then. Still, would prefer to use it at it's full potential. That's whats supposed to separate it from being just a giant hunk of metal you slap people with like Ludwig's Holy Blade.
 

myco666

Member
Does it now? I guess that's what I'll be scaling if I'm ever done with strength and vitality. Is there anything else that unofficially scales? And do you get more out of gems that add scaling or just ones that add generic stats like "+18% Physical attack"?

Hm...I might be able to get some use out of HMS without going nuts in Arcane after all then. Still, would prefer to use it at it's full potential.

It should and few streamers have leveled their Skill way past 50 to get higher VA. Don't really know about there being anything else 'hidden' with scaling.

Those scaling add gems should be better than 27.2% physical gems according to one gaffers posts on Old Hunters thread. At least he/she claimed to get way better damage from using heavy abyssal gems(?) with Str weapons than using highest physical damage gems.
 

Soulhouf

Member
If you plan only to use melee weapons with Arcane then 50 is fine as that is hardcap but if you want to get most out of the Hunter Tools you should go way higher. At least according to wiki they get good bonuses even up to 99.

You know what? My very first character who is arcane build is lv105 and he's sitting on something like 20 million echoes.
I should probably max out his arcane and see how much damage he gets. I don't use that character anymore so I don't care if the build is ruined. At least he will serve for testing.
 

Veelk

Banned
You know what? My very first character who is arcane build is lv105 and he's sitting on something like 20 million echoes.
I should probably max out his arcane and see how much damage he gets. I don't use that character anymore so I don't care if the build is ruined. At least he will serve for testing.

You know, that's another design mechanic that I'm not the biggest fan of, and it relates to the whole specialization thing. Forced commitment without full disclosure.

I mean, now I can plan out my build ahead of time because I have this community and also the rest of the internet as a resource, so if I wanted to be skill exclusive, I could specialize with that knowing what all my options are. But that's dangerous if you care about the discovery aspect of your experience. I got way too much spoiled for me as I was trying to look up where to find a certain weapon or whatever. I mean, consider the Rakuyo. Since it's a skill weapon and I was making a skill build, I wanted to see where I could find it. So I go to it's page on the wiki, first thing that hits me is a text reading "Hunter weapon wielded by Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower." and from there it's too easy to satisfy the instinctive curiousity that pops up once Lady Maria is mentioned by clicking on her page. I mean, I already know she exists, might as well, right? You're inevitably going to get slightly spoiled just by having the first text you read mention her name, and chances are you're going to be majorly spoiled too if you are given the rest of her information right there. It's just too easy when it's right there at your finger tips. It's like building a liquor store across the street from where an recovering alcoholic lives.

Ideally, I think you'd want to play every game blind the first go around. However, it is impossible to know if you are building the build that you want until you know what it is available. You don't get Chikage until cainhurst castle. Suppose I'm a katana nut and I had no idea one existed in this game, so I built my build around Skill or Strength because I liked the offers those weapons initially. I'd be very pissed to discover the weapon I want more than anything is out of my reach because I made the wrong choice before I could know what the right choice was. This is why I'm glad a stat reset is going to be in Dark Souls 3. If I absolutely have to be boxed out of a large portion of the game's content, atleast give me the option of course correcting should I need or want to do it.
 

krakov

Member
You know, that's another design mechanic that I'm not the biggest fan of, and it relates to the whole specialization thing. Forced commitment without full disclosure.

Well, it's kind of inherent in the ROLE playing genre. How exactly would you implement full disclosure in a game like this? Might as well remove stats and upgrades completely.

Have you tried making a new character? It's pretty fun.
 

Veelk

Banned
Well, it's kind of inherent in the ROLE playing genre. How exactly would you implement full disclosure in a game like this? Might as well remove stats and upgrades completely.

Have you tried making a new character? It's pretty fun.

You can like a genre without liking EVERY aspect of that genre, you know. And you don't need to remove stats/upgrades. You just have to enable the player to be able to change it. As I mentioned, a stat reset option solves this problem handily.

And I don't find the idea of playing a game 4 times so you can experience all it's content.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Games should have a stat reallocate mechanic. Most RPGs have it nowadays, even Dark Souls 2 has it.

As long as it's not super easy to acquire.

And I play all games blind first time and after I beat them I start looking at guides and stuff to see what I missed. I feel that sense of discovery gets lost if you use outside material on the first walkthrough. You also get inadvertently spoiled on game content.
 

Veelk

Banned
Games should have a stat reallocate mechanic. Most RPGs have it nowadays, even Dark Souls 2 has it.

As long as it's not super easy to acquire.

And I play all games blind first time and after I beat them I start looking at guides and stuff to see what I missed. I feel that sense of discovery gets lost if you use outside material on the first walkthrough. You also get inadvertently spoiled on game content.

Yup. But the alternative is that I miss major stuff that I want out of a game. That's important, especially if it's a game like Bloodborne, where you can miss half the damn game if you don't know what to do. I'm not even talking weapons, but I probably would have never found cainhurst on my first playthrough, or Nightmare Frontier, maybe even Old Yharnam, though I stumbled on that one myself. Whole areas you could miss. Half the game's boss's are optional.

It's a choice between bad and worse.
 

Dahbomb

Member
You can always do that part after you beat the game yourself. It's not a big deal, it isn't a long game at all if you do only the required stuff.
 

Veelk

Banned
You can always do that part after you beat the game yourself. It's not a big deal, it isn't a long game at all if you do only the required stuff.

I mean, I mentioned this before, but a first time playthrough will average out in 35 hours. If it's blind, you're not going to know what the required areas are, nor the fastest way to beat them. And even if you DO have foreknowledge, I think Jaded told me a speedy playthrough would probably be average in at 12 hours. I know that's about the length of the average game, maybe a little longer, but a 12 hour time investment is nothing to sneeze at. When I was younger, yeah, 12 hour games could be done in a day if I was really invested, because I had nothing else to do. Nowadays, between school, social obligations, extracurricular activities, looking for jobs, planning for my future, I have fairly little time to game, maybe a couple hours long sessions every few days. If I do more, I have to neglect one of those, which I'm willing to occasionally do, but I can't do it on the regular. I mean, I haven't played BB to finish off Larry, Orphan of Kos, and Gerhman and Moon Presence for the last few days because I have a whole bunch of tests this week I need to study for instead, when if I could, I'd probably could finish them all off in one sitting.

I like long games (provided they're not wasting my time, of course *glares at MGSV*), but they are officially a significant investment at this point in my life. Which is part of the reason that I find the idea of playing the game 4 times in all stat builds so you can experience it's complete content to be ludicrous. I have SO many other games to play, and SO MANY other media to consume. So this suggestion to just play the game again, and again, and again, just to get the relatively complete experience, which I feel should be available to everyone the first time around, is just something I cannot accept. It's fundamentally the wrong way to design games for me.

And please note that I say relatively complete. It'd be one thing if the game were withholding a few things, but you can miss such a significant amount of the game's content, you can't use the majority of the game's awesome weapons. That's insane to me. I can live with not fully realizing one stat, maybe 2, but when you lock me out of 75% of the game's weapons or withhold major areas, just so I can finish the game in a relatively quick manner, which isn't very quick on the whole in any case, that's when I get mad. I don't think that's fair at all, and when you layer on not knowing what the game holds later on on top of that, without the ability to go back and adjust your playstyle to your liking, that's just bullshit.
 

Dahbomb

Member
So how much time have you spent on BB already including spending time on here talking and looking up resources?

I beat the game in 24 hours (all blind) and that's a fraction of the time I have spent on the game total. I saw everything I needed to see and play with what I wanted to. I only used character.
 

Veelk

Banned
So how much time have you spent on BB already including spending time on here talking and looking up resources?

I beat the game in 24 hours (all blind) and that's a fraction of the time I have spent on the game total. I saw everything I needed to see and play with what I wanted to. I only used character.

Uh...no idea? The game has me at 70 hours, but I've been playing it since December, I think. I've looked stuff up after I took a break as well. But who keeps track of how much they talk or research about about a game online?

And yeah, you could get lucky and play with what you wanted to, sure. But what do you do when I give the supposed scenerio above? Suppose you don't find cainhurst until more than halfway into the game. Suppose you want to use Chikage, but put no points into BT all this time, and now you're at a pretty high level. You either have to grind your ass off to get what you want, or you have to replay the whole game with a BT build, which is, if anything, another form of grinding, and one I find far less palpable.
 

krakov

Member
You can like a genre without liking EVERY aspect of that genre, you know. And you don't need to remove stats/upgrades. You just have to enable the player to be able to change it. As I mentioned, a stat reset option solves this problem handily.

And I don't find the idea of playing a game 4 times so you can experience all it's content.

Sure, you can like a role playing game without the role playing. If you have the freedom to change your role it kinda loses some of it's impact, at least that is what I think. Persistance is one of my favorite things in the series and it's clearly designed to not let you eat and keep the cookie at the same time.

Even if you'll be able to change your stats you still have to replay the game to experience it all. For example there are npc questlines with different outcomes and choices that will lock you out of content unless you consider ng+ to be wildly different than ng.

I personally don't care very much if the game let's you respec or not. Just saying it really won't solve your problem even if you imagine so. It's handy if you want to minmax your pvp build but for pve you might as well just keep leveling. Saying the game doesn't let you course correct is just staight up bullshit.
 

Veelk

Banned
Sure, you can like a role playing game without the role playing. If you have the freedom to change your role it kinda loses some of it's impact, at least that is what I think. Persistance is one of my favorite things in the series and it's clearly designed to not let you eat and keep the cookie at the same time.

Even if you'll be able to change your stats you still have to replay the game to experience it all. For example there are npc questlines with different outcomes and choices that will lock you out of content unless you consider ng+ to be wildly different than ng.

I personally don't care very much if the game let's you respec or not. Just saying it really won't solve your problem even if you imagine so. It's handy if you want to minmax your pvp build but for pve you might as well just keep leveling. Saying the game doesn't let you course correct is just staight up bullshit.

Choosing a class isn't the essence of role playing to me. The essence of role playing is often all in my head. For example, my character in Bloodborne has a snarky attitude to contrast the doom and gloom of the game, and has unique interactions with the games characters that don't take place within the set role of the game. The character had no reaction to Ludwig showing up and later pulling out the blade, but in my head, the character was yelling sarcasm, obsentities, and references to star wars at the guy. That's role playing and is far more impactful than "YOU CAN USE X BUT NOT Y". Forcing you to keep to the choices you've made when there isn't a real reason for it is just harmful to role playing as far as I see it. What if I want to roleplay a character that's for just one fight decides to use a particular weapon that the class doesn't allow? Well, I can't roleplay that under this system, atleast not without an obscene amount of time and effort that is disproportionally demanding to what I want to do.

And as far as Bloodborne letting you course correct, it's technically true, but it's hardly practical. I've already gotten tons of shit from users here who seem baffled at my insistence to not cut myself out of the majority of the content and just specialize in whatever build I choose for myself. And I had to spend a good amount of time grinding to get to just get to that point, and I'll have to spend a good deal more if I want to finish off my Strength and Vitality stat. And once I do, getting Arcane is pretty much impossible. To get it to level 50, I'd need to pure in like 500,000,000 echoes into it. It's possible to brute force that, but way too demanding to do so. I could probably shave atleast 15 hours off my playthrough if it weren't for all the times I've gone back to an area just to get more echoes to apply to the build I want, and another 5 if I never lost the echoes I've lost.

Making course correcting THAT much of a pain in the ass is the game trying to lock you out. Even if it's not outright making it impossible, it makes it impractical.
 
Choosing a class isn't the essence of role playing to me. The essence of role playing is often all in my head. For example, my character in Bloodborne has a snarky attitude to contrast the doom and gloom of the game, and has unique interactions with the games characters that don't take place within the set role of the game. The character had no reaction to Ludwig showing up and later pulling out the blade, but in my head, the character was yelling sarcasm, obsentities, and references to star wars at the guy. That's role playing and is far more impactful than "YOU CAN USE X BUT NOT Y". Forcing you to keep to the choices you've made when there isn't a real reason for it is just harmful to role playing as far as I see it. What if I want to roleplay a character that's for just one fight decides to use a particular weapon that the class doesn't allow? Well, I can't roleplay that under this system, atleast not without an obscene amount of time and effort that is disproportionally demanding to what I want to do.

And as far as Bloodborne letting you course correct, it's technically true, but it's hardly practical. I've already gotten tons of shit from users here who seem baffled at my insistence to not cut myself out of the majority of the content and just specialize in whatever build I choose for myself. And I had to spend a good amount of time grinding to get to just get to that point, and I'll have to spend a good deal more if I want to finish off my Strength and Vitality stat. And once I do, getting Arcane is pretty much impossible. To get it to level 50, I'd need to pure in like 500,000,000 echoes into it. It's possible to brute force that, but way too demanding to do so. I could probably shave atleast 15 hours off my playthrough if it weren't for all the times I've gone back to an area just to get more echoes to apply to the build I want, and another 5 if I never lost the echoes I've lost.

Making course correcting THAT much of a pain in the ass is the game trying to lock you out. Even if it's not outright making it impossible, it makes it impractical.
giphy.gif

fTTBLia.gif
 

krakov

Member
Choosing a class isn't the essence of role playing to me. The essence of role playing is often all in my head. For example, my character in Bloodborne has a snarky attitude to contrast the doom and gloom of the game, and has unique interactions with the games characters that don't take place within the set role of the game. The character had no reaction to Ludwig showing up and later pulling out the blade, but in my head, the character was yelling sarcasm, obsentities, and references to star wars at the guy. That's role playing and is far more impactful than "YOU CAN USE X BUT NOT Y". Forcing you to keep to the choices you've made when there isn't a real reason for it is just harmful to role playing as far as I see it. What if I want to roleplay a character that's for just one fight decides to use a particular weapon that the class doesn't allow? Well, I can't roleplay that under this system, atleast not without an obscene amount of time and effort that is disproportionally demanding to what I want to do.

With that mindset, every game is a rpg, which I guess is true in a sense. But please let's keep to the rpg elements actually in the game, such as stats. They define and limit your character, you choose how.

It sounds like you want to really minmax while at the same time do everything, or at least try everything at max potential. It's like the definition of having it all. You could easily have made your character less defined and open to more experimentation but you chose to be very specific (from the sound of it). It sounds like you are doing mainly (only?) PVE in which case you don't really need to max out ANY stat but can easily focus on getting at least four-five stats up to a decent level with no grinding at all.

You could also have made several different characters instead of grinding away. You'd be surprised at how fast you'd be able to progress. It could also be potentially fun to try different weapons, routes, tactics and what not on the way to your destination. You could summon some peeps and maybe get invaded, maybe it would be a different experience compared to last time? Or you could just make up a different attitude for your character.

As I said before, I'd be fine if there was an option to respec. I kinda wish there was in Bloodborne as farming for gems in chalice dungeons is something you'd never want to repeat. But I fail to see the problem with leaving content untouched if your time is limited. Not doing so seems like it could cause discomfort.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Choosing a class isn't the essence of role playing to me. The essence of role playing is often all in my head. For example, my character in Bloodborne has a snarky attitude to contrast the doom and gloom of the game, and has unique interactions with the games characters that don't take place within the set role of the game. The character had no reaction to Ludwig showing up and later pulling out the blade, but in my head, the character was yelling sarcasm, obsentities, and references to star wars at the guy. That's role playing and is far more impactful than "YOU CAN USE X BUT NOT Y". Forcing you to keep to the choices you've made when there isn't a real reason for it is just harmful to role playing as far as I see it. What if I want to roleplay a character that's for just one fight decides to use a particular weapon that the class doesn't allow? Well, I can't roleplay that under this system, atleast not without an obscene amount of time and effort that is disproportionally demanding to what I want to do.

And as far as Bloodborne letting you course correct, it's technically true, but it's hardly practical. I've already gotten tons of shit from users here who seem baffled at my insistence to not cut myself out of the majority of the content and just specialize in whatever build I choose for myself. And I had to spend a good amount of time grinding to get to just get to that point, and I'll have to spend a good deal more if I want to finish off my Strength and Vitality stat. And once I do, getting Arcane is pretty much impossible. To get it to level 50, I'd need to pure in like 500,000,000 echoes into it. It's possible to brute force that, but way too demanding to do so. I could probably shave atleast 15 hours off my playthrough if it weren't for all the times I've gone back to an area just to get more echoes to apply to the build I want, and another 5 if I never lost the echoes I've lost.

Making course correcting THAT much of a pain in the ass is the game trying to lock you out. Even if it's not outright making it impossible, it makes it impractical.

I don't mean to be argumentative or dismissive or close-minded, but have you considered getting checked for OCD?
 
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