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[bodyofanamerican]

Is there any significance to Micolash being unidentifiable in his trophy image vs. him having a face when you actually fight him? Is he supposed to be an avatar for...something in the nightmare itself?

Image for reference:

 

[Tactics18]

ENB's latest video has some very interesting tidbits.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Pretty positive now that Paleblood = The Moon Presence.

Why?

"Seek Paleblood to transcend the Hunt"

The only way you can end the Hunt / transcend it is the final/true ending - i.e., beating The Moon Presence and becoming the new Moon Presence/Ultimate Great One.

 

[Guevara]

Is there any significance to Micolash being unidentifiable in his trophy image vs. him having a face when you actually fight him? Is he supposed to be an avatar for...something in the nightmare itself?

Image for reference:

Micolash has the best damn dialogue.

"Ahh, Kos, or some say Kosm"

"Ah hah hah ha! Ooh! Majestic! A hunter is a hunter, even in a dream. But, alas, not too fast! The nightmare swirls and churns unending!"

"Now I'm waking up, I'll forget everything..."​

That last line... the performance really sells it.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

ENB's latest video has some very interesting tidbits.

I'm really considering buying that guide now...

 

[Gbraga]

I'm really considering buying that guide now...

Is there a digital version of it? Do I still get the theme buying it digitally?

 

[LiK]

I'm really considering buying that guide now...

i'm freakin' excited to read everything about it. the DkS2 guide cleared up so much stuff too.

Is there a digital version of it? Do I still get the theme buying it digitally?

sadly no, altho i'm sure all the Wikis will just steal the info from the guide when it's out.

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Micolash has the best damn dialogue.

"Ahh, Kos, or some say Kosm"

"Ah hah hah ha! Ooh! Majestic! A hunter is a hunter, even in a dream. But, alas, not too fast! The nightmare swirls and churns unending!"

"Now I'm waking up, I'll forget everything..."​

That last line... the performance really sells it.

hell yes, Micolash's VA is outstanding, i want him more in future Souls games

 

[theSlacker]

well, ENB confirmed in Part 11 of his LP that one of those aliens with the vial is the real doctor. so that's that.

and he confirmed the alien with the Beast rune is the cannibal if you sent him to the clinic.

I thought those were a given? Like if you played the game multiple times you would have noticed that the blue things drop items relating to people you sent there, and don't respawn. The only one that is there if you haven't sent anyone is the one near the door and it drops the same vial that the woman gives you through the door before she mysteriously starts asking for you to send people. I thought that made clear the implication that it was that woman.

I don't think the doll is made by Gehrman, the doll was made with obsession and love. A person like that wouldn't say "even the doll, should it pleases you" or leave the doll sitting in the mud and grass outside.

A stronger theory would be the doll was made by Gehrmman's apprentice because we find his bone at the abandon workshop grave where the doll once in a while goes to kneel and pay respects in the hunters dream.

I keep seeing people claim that he says that all weird like, but when I heard it it seemed like he was saying it begrudging. As if he doesn't actually want us to use the doll, but knows that is is necessary. Not claiming that your second statement isn't true, just saying that it wasn't like he was just tossing out the doll or anything. Also have to remember that while we see her just sitting in the mud outside that that isn't actually what it is doing as we see when we get 1 insight.

At some point it seems like EVERY NPCs that you can chat with in Central Yharnam--this is before killing Rom--got suddenly replaced by the same dude speaking the same thing over and over again. The first time talking with him will net you the Tonsil Stone.

As soon as the Tonsil Stone is used and access to places like Library Hall and Nightmare Frontier is gained, everyone back to normal.

I wonder what's up with that?

This is something that I have been thinking was odd as well. I wounder if it is story related or just some bug, but if it is intentional that it definitely does have some other meaning. Also is there something we are missing since that item and that NPCs appearance ultimately doesn't even matter since we can access the same area later in the game from just normal story progression?

 

[LiK]

I thought those were a given? Like if you played the game multiple times you would have noticed that the blue things drop items relating to people you sent there, and don't respawn. The only one that is there if you haven't sent anyone is the one near the door and it drops the same vial that the woman gives you through the door before she mysteriously starts asking for you to send people. I thought that made clear the implication that it was that woman.

I mentioned about the cannibal earlier in the thread and some people disagreed.

the imposter theory came from the credits and glitching through the door and i'm glad ENB confirmed that cuz that wasn't as clear.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

I mentioned about the cannibal earlier in the thread and some people disagreed.

the imposter theory came from the credits and glitching through the door and i'm glad ENB confirmed that cuz that wasn't as clear.

Yeah that's the definitive hint, but ENB also gave some other hints too in his first 3 episodes

I don't know if it has been discussed before, but i'm watching ENB's walkthroughs and regarding Iosefka's imposter? after watching the first 3 episodes it is clearly seen that true Iosefka is replaced after the fight with F. Gascoigne.

Hint:you can see through the window cracks that she's holding a weapon,whereas before she didn't and also she's asking again if we're going to hunt like it was the first time we met.Also before that there is a hidden dialogue trigger with true Iosefka that suggests that the person you're talking with now(and is suddenly interested in finding survivors) IS NOT THE SAME PERSON!

 

[test_account]

I was watching a japanese Bloodborne stream earlier, and i found it interesting that Kos (or some say Kosm, haha) was translated as Gos (ゴー&#12473 and Gosm (ゴス&#12512. I wonder why.

 

[LiK]

Yeah that's the definitive hint, but ENB also gave some other hints too in his first 3 episodes

yea, I didn't pay attention to that when ENB pointed it out. I just thought she ended up being bad and not an imposter.

 

[theSlacker]

I mentioned about the cannibal earlier in the thread and some people disagreed.

the imposter theory came from the credits and glitching through the door and i'm glad ENB confirmed that cuz that wasn't as clear.

It was the credits that confirmed it for me, but the implication was there. Like it isn't even just the cannibal either, if you sent the prostitute there you would get her shoes from one of them as well. You should point out and shame the people that disagreed with you since it was such a clear implication.

The glitching through the door thing doesn't really matter since I think it does the same thing even when it is just the imposter there. Like doesn't she still have a second model near the door for when you are talking to it that just despawns when you pass a trigger point around the back?

yea, I didn't pay attention to that when ENB pointed it out. I just thought she ended up being bad and not an imposter.

That is all I gathered from his early video as well, it was actually getting around the other side and seeing the drops from the blue monsters that made the imposter thing clear. Well before someone pointed out the imposter in the credits I also thought that it might be implying that that is where the doctor got the vials to give to you, but after playing it again and seeing what happened to other people you sent there that theory didn't fit for me anymore.

 

[LiK]

It was the credits that confirmed it for me, but the implication was there. Like it isn't even just the cannibal either, if you sent the prostitute there you would get her shoes from one of them as well. You should point out and shame the people that disagreed with you since it was such a clear implication.

The glitching through the door thing doesn't really matter since I think it does the same thing even when it is just the imposter there. Like doesn't she still have a second model near the door for when you are talking to it that just despawns when you pass a trigger point around the back?

lol, nah, we were all making theories and it was our first playthrough so we can't all agree without a legit source to confirm. I didn't send anyone else to the clinic so I didn't know about the other drops. but man, it was so fucking creepy when you found out what happened to those people.

 

[test_account]

Why do the NPCs turn into aliens though? Also, are the squid enemies in upper cathedral kids from the choir?

 

[Tactics18]

By the way, some speculate that the Lecture Building is part of the School of Mensis, but the trophy actually confirms that it's Byrgnwerth.

"Gain entry into the Byrgnwerth lecture building, that drifts within the realm of nightmare."

 

[theSlacker]

By the way, some speculate that the Lecture Building is part of the School of Mensis, but the trophy actually confirms that it's Byrgnwerth.

"Gain entry into the Byrgnwerth lecture building, that drifts within the realm of nightmare."

Where would it have even fit at Byrgnwerth? Like it was something that surprised me when getting there in game, it was just one small building, not some big college of learning or facility like it was implied to be. I can understand if that was suppose to just be Willem's personally estate, but it doesn't really make sense to not be able to see anything more around it if it is suppose to be Byrgnwerth.

Also anyone else notice the closed trap door on the bottom floor of it? It is one of a few doors in the game that look like they should be operable/assessable but are not.

 

[Bizazedo]

Oooooo?

I just assume if I sent him to the Clinic he will murder Iosefka before the point where I want Iosefka to be murdered... I never realized that HE will be the one that gets defeated in the end... heh, interesting.

I am surprised he got taken out by the Impostor. Felt like there should've been a battle, at least.

I enjoyed fighting him, what with his trash talk and all.

Where would it have even fit at Byrgnwerth? Like it was something that surprised me when getting there in game, it was just one small building, not some big college of learning or facility like it was implied to be. I can understand if that was suppose to just be Willem's personally estate, but it doesn't really make sense to not be able to see anything more around it if it is suppose to be Byrgnwerth.

Byrgenwerth felt unfinished to me, dunno why. Size probably.

 

[LiK]

I am surprised he got taken out by the Impostor. Felt like there should've been a battle, at least.

I enjoyed fighting him, what with his trash talk and all.

it makes sense because he thought he was going to a safe place with innocents so he probably had his guard down. and I can't help but think she drugged him before testing him so he didn't know what was coming.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

Where would it have even fit at Byrgnwerth? Like it was something that surprised me when getting there in game, it was just one small building, not some big college of learning or facility like it was implied to be. I can understand if that was suppose to just be Willem's personally estate, but it doesn't really make sense to not be able to see anything more around it if it is suppose to be Byrgnwerth.

Also anyone else notice the closed trap door on the bottom floor of it? It is one of a few doors in the game that look like they should be operable/assessable but are not.

That and the other locked door in the Cathedral area near the chest(which some suggest that it's just the door leading to Cleric Beast's location)

 

[theSlacker]

Honestly the whole "imposter" thing seems a little unneeded to me, story wise. Like there is no reason or relevance to it even if it is easily confirmed. You don't know much/anything about the doctor before she is replaced, or anything about the motivations or reasons behind needing to replace her after she is replaced to even matter. Really nothing would have been lost or changed about the character if she wasn't an impostor and it turned out she was just always using the sick room to test on people in the first place. As well as nothing we know about either characters that would have made her being "pregnant" at the end any different either. I just don't get it.

That and the other locked door in the Cathedral area near the chest(which some suggest that it's just the door leading to Cleric Beast's location)

At least with that one it is really clear where it goes, even if it is odd that it doesn't open. With that trap door, as well as that random "unique" looking door in the unseen village it just looks like something that is meant to go somewhere new but doesn't

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Question about Cainhurst Castle- Do we know why Logarius was hiding the secret of the Vileblood Queen? I didn't find much lore going through the castle once over.

 

[Misterinenja]

That and the other locked door in the Cathedral area near the chest(which some suggest that it's just the door leading to Cleric Beast's location)

Wow, it checks.

Why wouldn't they just make it a neat little shortcut? Maybe they forgot.

 

[Ferrio]

Question about Cainhurst Castle- Do we know why Logarius was hiding the secret of the Vileblood Queen? I didn't find much lore going through the castle once over.

Because he's the leader of the faction that hunts vilebloods.

 

[chogidogs]

Because he's the leader of the faction that hunts vilebloods.

Was he? Why did he try to protect the queen? Did he switch sides?

 

[Beelzebufo]

The description for the sedative is interesting. It's just human blood, and apparently causes a reliance on blood ministration.

I take this to mean that the purpose of blood ministration then is to help those who have been driven crazy by insight. This would also explain how beasthood seems to be opposed to high insight (spending insight raises your beast meter, Micolash comments about how eyes elevate above beasthood), and yet is also linked to blood.

If we assume that Laurence started the church (which started blood ministration), did not properly fear the old blood, and eventually became a beast, does this suggest that blood ministration from old blood (perhaps from Loran?) is what causes the beast plague, or at least an aspect of it?

This also makes me wonder about the beginning of the game (the "Paleblood? Well you've come to the right place" part). Maybe your character gained some insight and went crazy, then went to Yharnam for basically a sedative? That's why you can't remember anything and are "moon marked" or whatever (a lot of characters mention you/your blood smells different, Annelise says its from the moon) maybe?

Also, it's fucked up that apparently the crazy old lady gets all of those sedatives from her husband or whatever.

 

[theSlacker]

Question about Cainhurst Castle- Do we know why Logarius was hiding the secret of the Vileblood Queen? I didn't find much lore going through the castle once over.

I think Alfred refers to him becoming a "blessed anchor" preventing the spread of evil. Think the lore behind him is that he lead a band of executioners to the castle and then somehow ended up trapped there or something. The queen inside doesn't seem to say anything about him though so I don't think he became her king or anything like that though.

Something interesting about all that is that if you follow Alfred's "quest" to the end, when you find him dead at the end of it the crown resembling the one you get from killing Logarius is sitting on the alter near his dead body, and it wasn't there before that. Got me what that means, but one would assume that he would have had to get the crown as well to have been able to see the Queens room. What that means for the world itself is also puzzling.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

At least with that one it is really clear where it goes, even if it is odd that it doesn't open. With that trap door, as well as that random "unique" looking door in the unseen village it just looks like something that is meant to go somewhere new but doesn't

Can you remind me where is that door?

Question about Cainhurst Castle- Do we know why Logarius was hiding the secret of the Vileblood Queen? I didn't find much lore going through the castle once over.

He's a twisted evil bastard that secretely fucks the queen,while enjoys killing people with the same blood

Wow, it checks.

Why wouldn't they just make it a neat little shortcut? Maybe they forgot.

Too many shortcuts in the game already man.They wanted to hold off speedrunners

Because Vileblood are enemies of the church and you (if you joined) and the queen are the only ones left.

Alfred kills her if you give him the summons thingy.

Yeah,but after that he's seen dead at the Cathedral area where he was praying and you can revive the Queen at the Altar of Despair,so it was all for nothing (actually the corpse gives you the Radiance Rune)

 

[Beelzebufo]

I assume Logarius is there because he sacrificed his life (Matyr) to be a defender of that rooftop forever. If he's there, nobody will ever be able to approach Annelise and become a Vileblood. Even if she's killed she can just be ressurected, so instead he just stops people from getting to her.

 

[theSlacker]

Can you remind me where is that door?

In the unseen village, in part of the area that you can get to from when you get sent there early in the game as well as later. It isn't that you can see things behind or have been on the other side of it, but it just looks like it should be operable, and there is no other real reason for being able to go up the stairs to it.

 

[chogidogs]

Yeah,but after that he's seen dead at the Cathedral area where he was praying and you can revive the Queen at the Altar of Despair,so it was all for nothing (actually the corpse gives you the Radiance Rune)

Good catch. Logarius was probably hiding the Queen since she can be revived making her kinda unkillable.

 

[Gbraga]

Byrgenwerth definitely felt unfinished to me. Like they didn't have enough time to fully develop it as much as it needed to be, so instead of connecting the lecture building to the main Byrgenwerth dungeon, they just made teleports. It fits the lore, I guess, so it doesn't feel so out of place, but getting to Byrgenwerth after the story hyping it up so much was definitely very underwhelming.

Underwhelming unfinished area is definitely better than shitty unfinished area (Lost Izalith) though, so there's that.

 

[LiK]

I can only assume certain parts of the game will get DLC. well, I hope so.

 

[Gbraga]

I can only assume certain parts of the game will get DLC. well, I hope so.

I really hope so too, more Bloodborne would be nice

 

[Virdix]

Pretty positive now that Paleblood = The Moon Presence.

Why?

"Seek Paleblood to transcend the Hunt"

The only way you can end the Hunt / transcend it is the final/true ending - i.e., beating The Moon Presence and becoming the new Moon Presence/Ultimate Great One.

There is also the note in Nightmare Lecture hall these were my thoughts as well.

Im assuming Paleblood is actually the moon presence based upon a note on Nightmare Lecture Hall Floor 2

"The nameless moon preaence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood."

So if we run with that we are essentially told to seek out the moon presence to transcend the hunt or move past it and break the cycle from the beginning of the game. Which fully explains why IMO the reborn as a great one ending is the "true" ending to the game.

Maybe the other "endings" or at least accepting Gehrman's offer is more like failing the very first thing the game tells you to do.

 

[DrDrizzay101]

does this suggest that blood ministration from old blood (perhaps from Loran?) is what causes the beast plague, or at least an aspect of it?.

Given the rest of the lore and the general tone of Souls games/BB, I'd say "cause of the outbreak" is very likely. Of course it could definitely be both, which would also be typically clever Souls writing.

it's fucked up that apparently the crazy old lady gets all of those sedatives from her husband or whatever.

She seems trustworthy.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Given the rest of the lore and the general tone of Souls games/BB, I'd say "cause of the outbreak" is very likely. Of course it could definitely be both, which would also be typically clever Souls writing.
She seems trustworthy.

Yeah! So like we know Hunters actually explore the chalice areas (Pthumerians Labyrinth is how they found the old ones in the first place), so it stands to reason they found Loran too, right?

So I'm thinking blood ministration might have started when Laurence realized that this blood could allow someone to understand more arcane stuff (since it sort of counterbalances it), and then started using this cursed blood from Loran too (the old blood) since it was more powerful or whatever. So blood ministration basically exists to counteract the side effects of studying the great ones.

Of course, they took it too far, and it certainly seems like Laurence became a beast because of it. I guess Oedon provavly has something to do with it too or whatever. You clearly get addicted to blood pretty quickly.

That's why Willem felt betrayed too, because he knows it's bad to use blood (as evidenced by the rune tool description).

 

[LiK]

i'm annoyed that the old lady is killed by something either way. nothing is explained except she was killed.

 

[Randam]

Well...shit.

OH, COME ON..

only thing that is slightly similar is the pose of the soldier.

armor is completly different.

 

[Primethius]

OH, COME ON..

only thing that is slightly similar is the pose of the soldier.

armor is completly different.

It's clearly meant to be a cool nod to Demon Souls.

 

[Beelzebufo]

It's clearly meant to be a cool nod to Demon Souls.

Yeah. Even though the armor is different, that's unique armor I'm pretty sure anyway lol

 

[Yurt]

By the way, some speculate that the Lecture Building is part of the School of Mensis, but the trophy actually confirms that it's Byrgnwerth.

"Gain entry into the Byrgnwerth lecture building, that drifts within the realm of nightmare."

it's definitely Byrgenwerth, since you can see Master Willem's rather unique chair from Laurence's dream in Patches' room.

 

[Auctopus]

it's definitely Byrgenwerth, since you can see Master Willem's rather unique chair from Laurence's dream in Patcher's room.

Nice.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

i'm annoyed that the old lady is killed by something either way. nothing is explained except she was killed.

Both in my NG and NG+ she isn't killed (in the Cathedral Chapel).Don't know what triggers it.I didn't recruit Adella and Arriana in NG and i didn't recruit Adella again in NG+.Sent Cannibal in Clinic both times.Haven't managed to recruit the guy nearby Arriana's location to Cathedral.

 

[QuantumZebra]

There is also the note in Nightmare Lecture hall these were my thoughts as well.

Yep exactly. Gehrman is a tool of the Great Ones and only the greatest of the Hunters can surpass him, and the Moon Presence, and "transcend the Hunt" .... breaking the hunter cycle and bringing forth a new era.

I feel pretty comfortable (like 95% sure) that is exactly meant to be the ending.

 

[Yurt]

Yharnam Stone
.
A sacred heirloom left by Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen

The Queen lies dead, but her horrific consciousness is only asleep, and it stirs in unsettling motions."

so

did anyone try reviving her on the Altar of Despair? I know it's just a stone after all, but the text is intriguing. Maybe she could replace Annalise after Alfred's kills her and then you can actually propose to someone with the Ring of Bethroal who's willing

and hopefully she forgets that I was the one who murdered her and her baby's nurse

 

[QuantumZebra]

yea, someone pointed that out. nice easter egg. hohoho

Its beyond an easter egg - Bloodborne is rumored to be in the same world/universe as Demon's Souls. The main protagonist of DeS was a "Great One/Old One"

 

[Beelzebufo]

How does killing the moon presence make you a great one though? Never understood that. Like transcend the hunt makes sense, but that's not supposed to happen, it's not like the moon presence rewards you for killing it.

And it's not like killing a great one makes you one, because the entire rest of the game contradicts that or does it?

Its beyond an easter egg - Bloodborne is rumored to be in the same world/universe as Demon's Souls. The main protagonist of DeS was a "Great One/Old One"

How does that make sense lol. The only solid connection is Patches, and he's everywhere.

 

[QuantumZebra]

How does killing the moon presence make you a great one though? Never understood that. Like transcend the hunt makes sense, but that's not supposed to happen, it's not like the moon presence rewards you for killing it.

And it's not like killing a great one makes you one, because the entire rest of the game contradicts that or does it?


How does that make sense lol. The only solid connection is Patches, and he's everywhere.

It was a rumor spread by some people at FromSoft, id have to dig up where I found it. Also considering they both center around the influence of the "Old Ones", and the armor/body of the guy from DeS is in the game - its not a far stretch.


I believe the Hunt is intended for the most powerful Hunter to kill the Moon Presence and take its place - how this happens is anyone's guess, but if pushed I'd say the blood transfusion at the beginning combined with the release of the Moon Presence's energy/power at the end combined with magic Old One stuff = being reborn as the new Great One.