Beelzebufo
Banned
The trophy list haha. And I think the other explination would he that the CE is like a sort of pod person or something, but the other way around seems more likely.
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
old ones =! great ones and please look at those pictures again.
the armor is completly different.
okay, that could be.
but like I said, only the pose is the same, armor isn't at all.
She seems trustworthy.
It's funny, the Old Lady is actually pretty accurate for the victorian era. IRRC there were woman's magazines back then that gave out recipes for sedatives to help you "relax", which would include opium, which is adictive and can result in well... The old lady's condition.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Totally agree, though Vaati is more articulate, his tendency to add exposition where it's not needed is kind of irritating. Also it seems like he makes up stories more than discussing the lore anymore.
She seems trustworthy.
I found her to be a rather heartbreaking character.
Her portrayal just seems sad and authentic for a senior woman in her circumstances.
His viewers like it and that's what really separates him from ENB.
So I guess that's something.
but sometimes its cringeworthy lol
indigo-cyclops
Member
Yea, I just feel it can complicate things, but there are a few good ones I will admit. He's certainly got a deep understanding of it all.
Also, Old Lady has a crooked ass nose. I really wish the cackling ladies near Viola ended up in the chapel.
Darryl M R
Member
Karsticles
Member
My old lady and my church lady both went crazy after a while. What are you all doing different?
So you can't do anything with them huh..
what about "lousy offcomer" and "trot along will ya" ?
alfredofroylan
Member
Is there any particular reason of why there're so many coffins on the streets?
indigo-cyclops
Member
Same, as far as I know.
It's said in Achievements
Flavour and the fact the city is ravaged by plague, also so Beyond the Grave has something to use when he visits
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
The next time I do Viola quest I will just consume the jewelled brooch because hell everything else seem only to offer overly grim fates what's with her being consumed by a giant pig or transformed into an alien by Iosefka and that her sister went mental and killed herself as well.
Why can't anyone be happy in this game even if it's just for a little while? Damn it.
Why can't anyone be happy in this game even if it's just for a little while? Damn it.
Consume it in front of her and then tell the girl to go to the Cathedral Ward knowing she'll die.
Never even get her ribbon back from the pig.
You can be happy in this game.
That would contradict all the buildings in Yahar'gul, the Unseen Village.
Beelzebufo
Banned
XANDER CAGE
Member
No, it's because of the massive stock of incense the guy who asks you to send people there has.
I really doubted the person who claimed the brick brute near the little Yharnam girl's house actually says "so cold to your sister" when you discover the older sister's body at the foot of the stairs, but I went there and turned up the volume and indeed that is exactly what he says.
Also, all the enemies who call you a plague ridden rat and say "this is all your fault", what exactly are they referring to? Is it because we're an outsider, or is it because we smell like the moon?
Also, all the enemies who call you a plague ridden rat and say "this is all your fault", what exactly are they referring to? Is it because we're an outsider, or is it because we smell like the moon?
Lesson learned, if you suspect extra-dimensional horrors in your town, befriend some smelly hippies
Beelzebufo
Banned
Probably a bit of both Id say. The moon smell might be the only way they differentiate you from the rest of them.
Crimson_Fate
Member
Partly why I axed her in her chair. (not thinking she would die) the Ward was pretty upset about the whole thing.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
So like, the only real decent folks in the game are like... let me hold up my fingers here and count: Viola, Arianna I guess, and uh.... actually, the Oedon Chapel keeper, and that's it, huh?
Deified Data
Banned
Just finished. I'll try to gather my thoughts as to what I think went down here before I read anyone else's interpretation and get swayed one way or the other.
So clearly at some point you either transformed or became host to a Great One, or a lesser Great One, or one of their children or what have you. This likely happened when you received blood ministration in Ioefska's Clinic at the start of the game.
The ragged beast reaching for you is clearly your "bestial" half attempting to overtake you and drive you mad, but it burns to death on contact. There are a couple reasons why this might have happened. Either you repelled it with your own willpower (unlikely, if people like Gascoigne and Amelia succumbed so easily), or the Messengers repelled it for you. I hypothesize that the Messengers are representatives of the Great One, be it the Moon Presence or the Great One possibly gestating inside you.
I think it's pretty obvious what happened to Yarnham in general. Byrgenwerth discovered a "holy medium" in the labyrinth below Yarnham (presumably the chalice dungeons?). Whatever this medium was (I don't think it's ever revealed?), it allowed Laurence to make contact with the Moon Presence. So whatever art was passed on to humanity via the medium, it evolved to miraculous blood healing, being an obvious benefit to everyone. I don't think anyone really knows what's going on at first, but as blood ministration becomes more ubiquitous I believe the Great Ones begin communicating with Byrgenwerth scholars and high-ranking members of the Healing Church telepathically through their dreams.
The ultimate goal of the Great Ones is to terraform the minds of Yarnham's people into something suitable for their habitation. They do this by wooing the Church and creating the Choir, which works in conjunction with Byrgenwerth to further blood healing and spread it to the masses. Some people take (the countless madman's skulls littering Yarnham that seemingly cracked like eggs - possibly birthing the abominations seen in the city), some are in the process of turning (like Micolash, or the pale-faced clerics in the Cathedral Ward), but most lack true insight and became beasts when their Id and Ego were set aside for habitation - the werewolf got them, so to speak.
I'm confused as to why this might be. It's said that clerics became the most hideous beasts, but why would this be if they were closest to the eldritch truth I do not know. I'm convinced that most of the church had no idea what was going on and thus lacked "true" insight. Amelia, for example, clearly believes the Great One Oedon is a god deserving of worship, and transforms into a beast due to her lack of understanding. Perhaps the clerics' more hideous forms were due to the scope of their belief? As in, they believed but did not understand, thus they become higher beasts but beasts nonetheless.
But anyway, Yarnham is a dream, and the dreamer is either yourself or the Moon Presence. I'm trying to piece together exactly what happens when you defeat it. It dies, the scene shifts, and you are a mewling squidthing on the ground. By killing the MP, you shatter the nightmare, but in doing so shatter your human form, which was part of the dream. This is what confuses me. Who woke up, you or the MP?
I don't know. Clearly there's much more discussion to be had. Who was the old man who performed the blood transfusion on you at the start? It doesn't look like Gehrman, but who else would it be? What's up with the mensis ritual? How did the baby Great Ones come into being? Did consuming the umbilicals transform you into one of them, or were you one the whole time?
So clearly at some point you either transformed or became host to a Great One, or a lesser Great One, or one of their children or what have you. This likely happened when you received blood ministration in Ioefska's Clinic at the start of the game.
The ragged beast reaching for you is clearly your "bestial" half attempting to overtake you and drive you mad, but it burns to death on contact. There are a couple reasons why this might have happened. Either you repelled it with your own willpower (unlikely, if people like Gascoigne and Amelia succumbed so easily), or the Messengers repelled it for you. I hypothesize that the Messengers are representatives of the Great One, be it the Moon Presence or the Great One possibly gestating inside you.
I think it's pretty obvious what happened to Yarnham in general. Byrgenwerth discovered a "holy medium" in the labyrinth below Yarnham (presumably the chalice dungeons?). Whatever this medium was (I don't think it's ever revealed?), it allowed Laurence to make contact with the Moon Presence. So whatever art was passed on to humanity via the medium, it evolved to miraculous blood healing, being an obvious benefit to everyone. I don't think anyone really knows what's going on at first, but as blood ministration becomes more ubiquitous I believe the Great Ones begin communicating with Byrgenwerth scholars and high-ranking members of the Healing Church telepathically through their dreams.
The ultimate goal of the Great Ones is to terraform the minds of Yarnham's people into something suitable for their habitation. They do this by wooing the Church and creating the Choir, which works in conjunction with Byrgenwerth to further blood healing and spread it to the masses. Some people take (the countless madman's skulls littering Yarnham that seemingly cracked like eggs - possibly birthing the abominations seen in the city), some are in the process of turning (like Micolash, or the pale-faced clerics in the Cathedral Ward), but most lack true insight and became beasts when their Id and Ego were set aside for habitation - the werewolf got them, so to speak.
I'm confused as to why this might be. It's said that clerics became the most hideous beasts, but why would this be if they were closest to the eldritch truth I do not know. I'm convinced that most of the church had no idea what was going on and thus lacked "true" insight. Amelia, for example, clearly believes the Great One Oedon is a god deserving of worship, and transforms into a beast due to her lack of understanding. Perhaps the clerics' more hideous forms were due to the scope of their belief? As in, they believed but did not understand, thus they become higher beasts but beasts nonetheless.
But anyway, Yarnham is a dream, and the dreamer is either yourself or the Moon Presence. I'm trying to piece together exactly what happens when you defeat it. It dies, the scene shifts, and you are a mewling squidthing on the ground. By killing the MP, you shatter the nightmare, but in doing so shatter your human form, which was part of the dream. This is what confuses me. Who woke up, you or the MP?
I don't know. Clearly there's much more discussion to be had. Who was the old man who performed the blood transfusion on you at the start? It doesn't look like Gehrman, but who else would it be? What's up with the mensis ritual? How did the baby Great Ones come into being? Did consuming the umbilicals transform you into one of them, or were you one the whole time?
Eileen's alright as far as we know. ranted we don't know what Henryk or that guy in VA's room did to deserve being hunted.
Edit:
I believe hints pointed to Ebrietas since the Augur of Ebrietas says "Remnant of the eldritch Truth encountered at Byrgenwerth....The intial encounter marked the start of an inquiry into the cosmos from within the old laybrinth and led to the establishment of the Choir"
So at the very least the existence of Ebrietas was known to Byrgenwerth prior to the establishment of the Choir.
Anyways as to the rest of your thoughts, I think you're onto something about minds rejecting the habitation of the Old Ones and in the process turning into beasts, although I think it's something different what you said is probably worth a lot of thought since it's possible that could be one reason for the existence of Beasts. If this were the case it could explain why the Church had some fears about things related to beasts as beasts would be the closest thing to a rebellion (despite it not being anything at all like one) they could face.
What I want to know is, what the hell was the Mensis Ritual? What was Micolash's part in it entirely? Those are questions I want to know.
But in an attempt to try to answer the question about the Umbilical Cords, didn't eating them give Insight as well? Perhaps they start you on the proces of transforming into one of the Great Ones.
Deified Data
Banned
He's saying "so cold, dear sister", and they all say that unfortunately.
WHY ?
Probably sedative addiction.
Deified Data
Banned
Right, I remember that. I was confused between reports that Ebreitas was the first Great One encountered and a note mentioning how Laurence communed with the Moon Presence.
I wonder if they found an infant Ebreitas and "milked" it of its blood to create the first batch of so-alled "Yarnham blood". The thing vomits blood at you that seems to cause frenzy...
I found her dead by the grave.
Why did he feel the to kill her in her chair though ? lol
Ahh is that what they say? Thanks.
When i started playing the game i assumed the world outside of the hunter's dream was a nightmare. So everything is distorted and exagerated. That's why there are so many coffins and statues. And the statues get weirder and weirder as you progress. It's not a real place. It's a distorted version of a the real city. Or so i thought.
I never encountered that in the battle but if that's the case it makes sense. Or at least it's the start of figuring out all the effects of the blood ministration.
What I'm curious about is that Ebrietas is the only one mentioned to be female (Daughter of Chaos and all that) so then that makes me want to ask, is it possible she is capable of having a child? Or is it a case of all Old Ones can only propagate through human females?
Whether Ebrietas could or not, well, wouldn't the Healing Church and Byrgenwerth have tried regardless? have tried to see if they could have Ebrietas mate somehow? Maybe with their own newly uplifted former human Old One? Someone who maybe we killed Ebrietas has at her Altar that resurrects people? ...Just a thought though, nothing I can confirm.
Well there are 4 of those ugly baby like monsters on the way to her. Could they be hers? That whole area is called the orphanage too.
It would explain those baby monsters. Would also explain Rom's connection to her and why he's in her room when you get there.
I don't like the whole thing being a dream theory because it undermines the whole adventure really
you were able to see interdimensional beings, peer into someone's memory in the church, go into someone's nightmarish dream world and turn into a squid. IT CANT BE A DREAM
that really blew my mind. And Iosefka's imposter carrying a weapon
the attention to detail is unbelievable, and all of this stuff is easy to miss too!
you were able to see interdimensional beings, peer into someone's memory in the church, go into someone's nightmarish dream world and turn into a squid. IT CANT BE A DREAM
that really blew my mind. And Iosefka's imposter carrying a weapon
the attention to detail is unbelievable, and all of this stuff is easy to miss too!
Beelzebufo
Banned
Ah, but blood also curses Frenzy! That's what the sedative is. It's also obviously connected to beasthood, the opposite of frenzy/insight.
All of the ones on the outside of the building (near the giant gate shortcut) actually all face directly towards Ebrietas. It's creepy as shit lol.
flipswitch
Member
Can someone explain where I am. I just killed by something and now I'm in "
Yahar'gul, Unseen Village
StaffyManasse
Member
You are already dead.
Seriously though:
you can escape the jail, there is a lamp upstairs. The area is hard. Consider coming back later. There are some sweet items to be found if you feel brave though..
flipswitch
Member
Yeah I found the lamp, might come back later.
The only way to get back there is to be killed again by those things?
StaffyManasse
Member
Just realised this is the story and lore thread.
Anyway, you can come back later using the lamp, or later in the game by other means.
flipswitch
Member
Just realised this is the story and lore thread.
Anyway, you can come back later using the lamp, or later in the game by other means.
Oh sorry, I thought this was the official thread. I was in a hurry and just saw the word Bloodborne and immediately clicked thinking it was the OT.
StaffyManasse
Member
Yeah I was browsing with a phone and was not paying attention either. Let's just get back to lore stuff now.
This whole game is an homage to Lovecraft (been a fan of his work for many years). The many references are just staggering. Really makes this game even more special.
Examples:
- Mi-Go
- It has Old ones from the depths of space
- Sanity mechanics (insight and frenzy)
- Octopoid beings
- The Dream Cycle / Dream lands
- It has Elder signs
- True endig ..the Moon Presence looks a lot like Nyarlatothep
- Ebrietas has some resemblences to Cthulhu
Examples:
- Mi-Go
- It has Old ones from the depths of space
- Sanity mechanics (insight and frenzy)
- Octopoid beings
- The Dream Cycle / Dream lands
- It has Elder signs
- True endig ..the Moon Presence looks a lot like Nyarlatothep
- Ebrietas has some resemblences to Cthulhu
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That just floored me. What I really like about Miyazaki's approach is that these small details are always in service of character/story "meaning", as opposed to basic verisimilitude of cinematic storytelling.
My point being, these sort of small reactive details actually say something about the characters, whereas your average title would lip-sync every line in service of visual realism but actually add nothing to our understanding of them beyond the words they say.
Dalibor_San
Member
I have one a question that is probably better asked in this thread then the OT, I cleared Iosefka's Clinic from the back entrance and got the Invitation to Cainhurst Castle.
I then got Kidnapped to rescue Adell and kill the Pearl Boss, I then went to Witches Abode or whatever that place is called where I fought the 3 witches Boss.
However this time something went different when I went to the centre and killed those dogs and the 2 Executioners.
I got a cinematic and a carriage appeared, I didn't know what was happening so I I left it alone,was I supposed to take the carriage as soon as possible? or Will it always be there?
I still got some other areas to clear like the forbidden woods and such and I'm just wondering if I stuffed up?(repercussions as far as NPCs go)
Thanks.
I then got Kidnapped to rescue Adell and kill the Pearl Boss, I then went to Witches Abode or whatever that place is called where I fought the 3 witches Boss.
However this time something went different when I went to the centre and killed those dogs and the 2 Executioners.
I got a cinematic and a carriage appeared, I didn't know what was happening so I I left it alone,was I supposed to take the carriage as soon as possible? or Will it always be there?
I still got some other areas to clear like the forbidden woods and such and I'm just wondering if I stuffed up?(repercussions as far as NPCs go)
Thanks.