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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]

Gbraga

Member
Does transfending the hunt mean becoming a great one? Is that the intention of every Hunter and is that why Eileen kills hunters?

I do think it means becoming a great one, but I don't think it's the intention of every hunter. After all, the Healing Church hunters started with Ludwig, recruiting Yharnamites to kill the beasts. Hunters were created for the Nightly Hunt, not for eldritch purposes.

Maybe only for hunters who are/were part of the dream? I assume not every yharnamite Ludwig recruited became part of the dream, and only the ones chosen by either Gehrman or the messengers (ah, you found yourself a new hunter)?

I also don't think it was necessarily the hunter's intention, since Gehrman not only offers you the choice to take the blue pill, but insists you do if you choose to fight him in his dialogue (from what I've read, he didn't say anything like that to me), but just the way to transcend the hunt.

In Bloodborne, you're actually given choices storywise. In Dark Souls you could choose your ending, but in the story you're being tricked to believe you need to link the flame, a lot of people complete the game and are surprised to see that there even is another ending (and I always love it so much when that happens, the way Dark Souls use narrative and gameplay together for the Gwyndolin/Frampt plot is so damn brilliant), but in Bloodborne the game actually asks you what do you want, and there is the third, secret ending, but even then the lore notes give you hints of what you need, it's a secret, not the game's plot and characters trying to trick you into never getting it.

Has anyone yet figured out the mystery of the Yharnam Stone?

What is the mystery? Still didn't finish the chalice dungeons myself, I think they're incredibly boring.
 

Derpot

Member
According to wiki:

A sacred heirloom left by Yharnam, Pthumerian Queen.

"The Queen lies dead, but her horrific consciousness is only asleep, and it stirs in unsettling motions."
 

Gbraga

Member
I was thinking the fact that it's a key item means it must have some use, but thinking about it, if it doesn't have any use, what else could it be other than a key item?

So maybe there isn't any? Or it's for future DLC?

Whens guide

DLC, Obvs.

Ludwig of the First Hunt DLC pls
 
Speaking of Iosefka, I want to use her to launch off another fairly important question that isn't getting much discussion. Iosefka's relevant to this conversation, so bear with me.

We know she wears Choir clothes, she's one of the few people in the game happy about being Great One pregnant, she's turning people into Celestial beings (notice that the beings you kill in her lab don't disappear, indicating they were NPCs), and there's strong evidence she's not the real Iosefka. She also uses the Augur of Ebrietas in battle, which indicates she must be in the Choir because the description of that item straight up says "Hey, people in the Choir use this since they got close to Ebrietas."

When you actually explore her lab from the back, you discover a number of important items, but the one I want to hone in on this time is the Cainhurst Summons. The item description (bolding mine):

"An old blood-stained summons, inviting an honored guest to the forsaken Castle Cainhurst.

Rather bafflingly, it is addressed to you.

Do not hesitate; the stagecoach leaves from Hemwick crossing."

9jOgYR9.jpg

The one place in the game that you are guaranteed to be without any memory of how you got there is Iosefka's clinic, which is where you find the summons. It is not on your person when you wake up, but rather, hidden in the back where Iosefka clearly doesn't want you going, to the point where she'll turn hostile if you approach her prior to Rom. We can assume, as a matter of course, that the item description is being truthful if not vague. There's no reason to think the summons is not meant for you.

So an assumed series of events can be:

> Get summoned to Cainhurst Castle
> On your way to Hemwick Crossing, you end up in Iosefka's Clinic in Central Yarnham
> Either the unidentified man from the beginning or Fake Iosefka takes the letter off your person and hides it away
> You wake up with no memory of why you're going to Cainhurst

Cainhurst is, at the time of the game, abandoned. No one should have been able to summon you there. The only things that remain there are seemingly undead servants, ghosts, Logarius, and the Queen of the Vilebloods. Let's go ahead and throw out the servants and ghosts as reasonable guesses for who summoned you, which leaves Logarius and the Queen. Of the two, Logarius seems the least likely guest for two reasons.

For one, Logarius is basically not there mentally. He's emaciated, he has no duties besides defending the throne and he does so voluntarily. The second reason is that, Iosefka would have absolutely no reason to take the summons from you were it from Logarius. Logarius led the Executioners, who were part of the healing church, which the Choir leads. Unless Logarius was planning on turning on the Executioners (and there's no real evidence that's the case), Iosefka has no reason to take it.

She does, however, have reason if it's from Annalise, the queen of the Vilebloods. The Vilebloods are in direct opposition to the Healing Church and Annalise herself says she is Queen of Cainhurst Castle - this dismisses any suspicion that the Vilebloods are merely being imprisoned there or they're holing up in the castle. So it stands to reason that Iosefka, upon seeing a Cainhurst Summons on a patient in the clinic and being an agent for the Church herself, quickly takes it away because she assumes the sick person is up to some bad shit that could end up ruining what the church is trying to do.

This brings me to the actual point I wanted to talk about: You were summoned to Cainhurst, that much is clear. Why?

As mentioned, Cainhurst is abandoned. Did the queen summon you to save her? Why would you agree to do that? I think a lot of this mystery comes down to the Vileblood Covenant in general. Covenants in this game are fairly useless, but Vileblood's quests are bafflingly useless. You can give the queen a thousand blood dregs and all you ever get is the gesture for Deep Respect. You can also offer her the Ring of Betrothal, a key item found only in Chalice Dungeons.

"The inhuman beings known as the Great Ones imbued this Ring of Betrothal with some special meaning.

In the age of the Great Ones, wedlock was a blood contract, only permitted to those slated to bear a special child."

d03pNoW.png

You can ask her to marry you - she says no, you're no use to her if you're not out there hunting for blood dregs.

So when I say this bafflingly useless, I mean it. Let's also quickly establish Blood Dregs.

"The Vilebloods of Cainhurst, blood-lusting hunters, see these frightful things in coldblood.

They often appear in the blood of echo fiends, that is to say, the blood of hunters. Queen Annalise partakes in these blood dregs offerings, so that she may one day bear the Child of Blood, the next Vileblood heir."

UmaN9eX.jpg

You may have to squint to see it, but that's, like, blood semen. If the description wasn't enough to make it clear, you're giving her blood dregs in hopes that she gets pregnant and produces an heir for the VIlebloods. Which brings it all back to the question of why you were summoned to Cainhurst in the first place. The easy assumption is that Iosefka took the letter to stop you from doing exactly what you did, killing Logarius and maybe helping to knock up the Queen to produce new vilebloods. But ultimately, isn't that kind of a small concern for a group whose end goal comes that night? Why bother with you at all? That's also so...plain for this mystery. I'm sure there's more to it.

I'm unsure if it's related, but I was thinking today how strange it is that the Upper Cathedral Ward only has one human, the priest with a scythe guarding a doorway. That makes only three living Choir members - Iosefka, the priest, and the man who you met in Bergenwyrth and tried to kill you. I imagine this is significant, if unrelated to your summons, but I wonder what those three people were doing in their locations?
 

Gbraga

Member
Aw man, if it's the case, I'll be forced to finish the Chalice Dungeons. Arf D:

I know that feel. So shitty >_>

The only thing that could get me excited for Chalice Dungeons would be DLC packs of classic souls boss fights remixed for Bloodborne. That would be so cool >_<

But the level design is kinda terrible, not even the exclusive boss fights are giving me enough courage to get into them instead of just PVPing with my main character and doing several different builds/speedruns/challenge runs with new characters.

The reason I fell in love with the Souls series was the level design and the boss fights, so shitty level design with mostly rehashed or uninteresting boss fights isn't really appealing to me.
 
I got stuck with Chalice's Rom boss battle, really boring to do the chalices alone.

Does transfending the hunt mean becoming a great one? Is that the intention of every Hunter and is that why Eileen kills hunters?

Thats the Church idea, the character or the hunters themselves never questioned that.
Like real life
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
yeah guys try the Chalice Dungeons with a friend or something, it'll make them way more enjoyable, or rather tolerable.

ShockingAlberto with another lovely post. Moar pls
 

Gbraga

Member
Speaking of Iosefka, I want to use her to launch off another fairly important question that isn't getting much discussion. Iosefka's relevant to this conversation, so bear with me.

We know she wears Choir clothes, she's one of the few people in the game happy about being Great One pregnant, she's turning people into Celestial beings (notice that the beings you kill in her lab don't disappear, indicating they were NPCs), and there's strong evidence she's not the real Iosefka. She also uses the Augur of Ebrietas in battle, which indicates she must be in the Choir because the description of that item straight up says "Hey, people in the Choir use this since they got close to Ebrietas."

When you actually explore her lab from the back, you discover a number of important items, but the one I want to hone in on this time is the Cainhurst Summons. The item description (bolding mine):



The one place in the game that you are guaranteed to be without any memory of how you got there is Iosefka's clinic, which is where you find the summons. It is not on your person when you wake up, but rather, hidden in the back where Iosefka clearly doesn't want you going, to the point where she'll turn hostile if you approach her prior to Rom. We can assume, as a matter of course, that the item description is being truthful if not vague. There's no reason to think the summons is not meant for you.

So an assumed series of events can be:

> Get summoned to Cainhurst Castle
> On your way to Hemwick Crossing, you end up in Iosefka's Clinic in Central Yarnham
> Either the unidentified man from the beginning or Fake Iosefka takes the letter off your person and hides it away
> You wake up with no memory of why you're going to Cainhurst

Cainhurst is, at the time of the game, abandoned. No one should have been able to summon you there. The only things that remain there are seemingly undead servants, ghosts, Logarius, and the Queen of the Vilebloods. Let's go ahead and throw out the servants and ghosts as reasonable guesses for who summoned you, which leaves Logarius and the Queen. Of the two, Logarius seems the least likely guest for two reasons.

For one, Logarius is basically not there mentally. He's emaciated, he has no duties besides defending the throne and he does so voluntarily. The second reason is that, Iosefka would have absolutely no reason to take the summons from you were it from Logarius. Logarius led the Executioners, who were part of the healing church, which the Choir leads. Unless Logarius was planning on turning on the Executioners (and there's no real evidence that's the case), Iosefka has no reason to take it.

She does, however, have reason if it's from Annalise, the queen of the Vilebloods. The Vilebloods are in direct opposition to the Healing Church and Annalise herself says she is Queen of Cainhurst Castle - this dismisses any suspicion that the Vilebloods are merely being imprisoned there or they're holing up in the castle. So it stands to reason that Iosefka, upon seeing a Cainhurst Summons on a patient in the clinic and being an agent for the Church herself, quickly takes it away because she assumes the sick person is up to some bad shit that could end up ruining what the church is trying to do.

This brings me to the actual point I wanted to talk about: You were summoned to Cainhurst, that much is clear. Why?

As mentioned, Cainhurst is abandoned. Did the queen summon you to save her? Why would you agree to do that? I think a lot of this mystery comes down to the Vileblood Covenant in general. Covenants in this game are fairly useless, but Vileblood's quests are bafflingly useless. You can give the queen a thousand blood dregs and all you ever get is the gesture for Deep Respect. You can also offer her the Ring of Betrothal, a key item found only in Chalice Dungeons.



You can ask her to marry you - she says no, you're no use to her if you're not out there hunting for blood dregs.

So when I say this bafflingly useless, I mean it. Let's also quickly establish Blood Dregs.



You may have to squint to see it, but that's, like, blood semen. If the description wasn't enough to make it clear, you're giving her blood dregs in hopes that she gets pregnant and produces an heir for the VIlebloods. Which brings it all back to the question of why you were summoned to Cainhurst in the first place. The easy assumption is that Iosefka took the letter to stop you from doing exactly what you did, killing Logarius and maybe helping to knock up the Queen to produce new vilebloods. But ultimately, isn't that kind of a small concern for a group whose end goal comes that night? Why bother with you at all? That's also so...plain for this mystery. I'm sure there's more to it.

I'm unsure if it's related, but I was thinking today how strange it is that the Upper Cathedral Ward only has one human, the priest with a scythe guarding a doorway. That makes only three living Choir members - Iosefka, the priest, and the man who you met in Bergenwyrth and tried to kill you. I imagine this is significant, if unrelated to your summons, but I wonder what those three people were doing in their locations?

Wow, fantastic post, I just disagree with the "fake Iosefka must be from the Choir" thing, I think that's just real Iosefka. The fake one can summon Ebrietas because she took the Augur from Iosefka before turning her into one of the things, along with her clothes. We can also wear Choir clothes and summon Ebrietas if we get the items, after all. Fake Iosefka is from Cainhurst (assuming from her ability to create numbing mist).

So it would make sense that the real Iosefka kept the Cainhurst summons from you, being a member of the Choir, because she doesn't want people getting close to Annalise, maybe?

About being happy for having a child, if she's indeed a noble from Cainhurst, and maybe even related to Yharnam herself, it makes sense that she would be happy, right? Even seek it herself, but the description of the cord that she drops is what gives me so much trouble. It would make more sense if we assume the Choir clothed hunter enemy who also uses the cane is actually fake Iosefka (without any evidence to do so), who was there to get Willem's cord, but then it doesn't explain why killing one doesn't make the other disappear.
 
Speaking of Iosefka, I want to use her to launch off another fairly important question that isn't getting much discussion. Iosefka's relevant to this conversation, so bear with me.

We know she wears Choir clothes, she's one of the few people in the game happy about being Great One pregnant, she's turning people into Celestial beings (notice that the beings you kill in her lab don't disappear, indicating they were NPCs), and there's strong evidence she's not the real Iosefka. She also uses the Augur of Ebrietas in battle, which indicates she must be in the Choir because the description of that item straight up says "Hey, people in the Choir use this since they got close to Ebrietas."

When you actually explore her lab from the back, you discover a number of important items, but the one I want to hone in on this time is the Cainhurst Summons. The item description (bolding mine):



The one place in the game that you are guaranteed to be without any memory of how you got there is Iosefka's clinic, which is where you find the summons. It is not on your person when you wake up, but rather, hidden in the back where Iosefka clearly doesn't want you going, to the point where she'll turn hostile if you approach her prior to Rom. We can assume, as a matter of course, that the item description is being truthful if not vague. There's no reason to think the summons is not meant for you.

So an assumed series of events can be:

> Get summoned to Cainhurst Castle
> On your way to Hemwick Crossing, you end up in Iosefka's Clinic in Central Yarnham
> Either the unidentified man from the beginning or Fake Iosefka takes the letter off your person and hides it away
> You wake up with no memory of why you're going to Cainhurst

Cainhurst is, at the time of the game, abandoned. No one should have been able to summon you there. The only things that remain there are seemingly undead servants, ghosts, Logarius, and the Queen of the Vilebloods. Let's go ahead and throw out the servants and ghosts as reasonable guesses for who summoned you, which leaves Logarius and the Queen. Of the two, Logarius seems the least likely guest for two reasons.

For one, Logarius is basically not there mentally. He's emaciated, he has no duties besides defending the throne and he does so voluntarily. The second reason is that, Iosefka would have absolutely no reason to take the summons from you were it from Logarius. Logarius led the Executioners, who were part of the healing church, which the Choir leads. Unless Logarius was planning on turning on the Executioners (and there's no real evidence that's the case), Iosefka has no reason to take it.

She does, however, have reason if it's from Annalise, the queen of the Vilebloods. The Vilebloods are in direct opposition to the Healing Church and Annalise herself says she is Queen of Cainhurst Castle - this dismisses any suspicion that the Vilebloods are merely being imprisoned there or they're holing up in the castle. So it stands to reason that Iosefka, upon seeing a Cainhurst Summons on a patient in the clinic and being an agent for the Church herself, quickly takes it away because she assumes the sick person is up to some bad shit that could end up ruining what the church is trying to do.

This brings me to the actual point I wanted to talk about: You were summoned to Cainhurst, that much is clear. Why?

As mentioned, Cainhurst is abandoned. Did the queen summon you to save her? Why would you agree to do that? I think a lot of this mystery comes down to the Vileblood Covenant in general. Covenants in this game are fairly useless, but Vileblood's quests are bafflingly useless. You can give the queen a thousand blood dregs and all you ever get is the gesture for Deep Respect. You can also offer her the Ring of Betrothal, a key item found only in Chalice Dungeons.



You can ask her to marry you - she says no, you're no use to her if you're not out there hunting for blood dregs.

So when I say this bafflingly useless, I mean it. Let's also quickly establish Blood Dregs.



You may have to squint to see it, but that's, like, blood semen. If the description wasn't enough to make it clear, you're giving her blood dregs in hopes that she gets pregnant and produces an heir for the VIlebloods. Which brings it all back to the question of why you were summoned to Cainhurst in the first place. The easy assumption is that Iosefka took the letter to stop you from doing exactly what you did, killing Logarius and maybe helping to knock up the Queen to produce new vilebloods. But ultimately, isn't that kind of a small concern for a group whose end goal comes that night? Why bother with you at all? That's also so...plain for this mystery. I'm sure there's more to it.

I'm unsure if it's related, but I was thinking today how strange it is that the Upper Cathedral Ward only has one human, the priest with a scythe guarding a doorway. That makes only three living Choir members - Iosefka, the priest, and the man who you met in Bergenwyrth and tried to kill you. I imagine this is significant, if unrelated to your summons, but I wonder what those three people were doing in their locations?

First, I love what you bring it here.

Second: As a hunter you might be potentially capable of trascend into a Great One since your ability to farm echoes and resist the beasthood. Maybe Iosefka thought that it would be a very bad idea to allow someone like you to visit the Cainhurst Castle.

The Queen might not now about your value but you being an outsider could allow her to use you (since you're not contaminated by the church) in search of a capable donor to have a child of blood.
 
So, about Hypogean Gaol, it's not simply a early visit to Yahar'gul just to be a cool foreshadowing thing. It has different enemies, different enemy placements, you can fight a boss and unlock a shortcut early, when you come back the bag men are all dead and you can loot chunk from their corpses... Anyway, the point: Hypogean Gaol isn't lazy, it's not just a sneak peak into Yahar'gul before the red moon, they even go through the trouble of breaking the lamp later, so I think it's safe to assume they would change (or simply hide) the lore notes, unless they wanted them to be there, right?

The reason for them to be there could be just for the sake of foreshadowing and giving you pieces of the puzzle earlier, but I'd like to know your opinion on the implications of them being there.

The only possibilities I could think of, when you consider you can read those messages before you can hear the harrowing cry or see the Paleblood sky are the following:

1 - Team Veil was right, Mergo's cry (just guessing it's Mergo, does it actually stop in the world after you kill the Wet Nurse?) and the Paleblood sky were always there, Rom was just keeping them hidden, along with the rest of the Unseen Village itself, either to seal them or to unable people to mess with their rituals.

2 - Those lore notes are not just lore notes the game gives you, but were left there by someone, which would explain why they would be there before the actual events, you weren't supposed to be reading them anyway, but that's not much of a theory because it's not backed by anything else.

What do you guys think?

Neither. The "Paleblood Sky" isn't the red moon, so I'm not sure what your point is haha. Also that note (along with the "moon rituals" one) are messenger notes, so nobody left them there. Don't know who left the "crave a newborn" note.
 

Gbraga

Member
Just wondering what the evidence is for Iosefka being an imposter? I must've missed that.

Her actions, gear, the drop from the emissary like thing, the fact that you can glitch the game and see both of them and this:


The problem is undead cant give birth.

Poor Anna-chan

Neither. The "Paleblood Sky" isn't the red moon, so I'm not sure what your point is haha. Also that note (along with the "moon rituals" one) are messenger notes, so nobody left them there. Don't know who left the "crave a newborn" note.

Then what is the Paleblood sky? I don't think it's just the sky in general, it must be something specific.

EDIT: More evidence torwards that note being about the red moon:

"Madmen toil surreptitiously in rituals to beckon the moon. Uncover their secrets."

"The Mensis Ritual must be stopped, lest we all become beasts."

Remember how the red moon hanging low blurs the line between man and beast? The ritual to beckon the moon must be stopped or we'll all become beasts.

Paleblood is also related to beckoning the moon in the Lecture Building note: "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood."
 
Non-player created messenger notes are coming straight from Moon Presence, Gehrman, or whoever is responsible for setting you out on your hunt in my opinion. Messengers are clearly minions of the Nightmare. Who created the Nightmare?
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
now that you guys mention it, the covenant stuff all felt like an afterthought


and I respect From too much to say half-assed


maybe one of the DLCs will be mostly PVP and covenants stuff, who knows right?


right, OddMorsel?



please respond
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
Her actions, gear, the drop from the emissary like thing, the fact that you can glitch the game and see both of them and this:





Poor Anna-chan



Then what is the Paleblood sky? I don't think it's just the sky in general, it must be something specific.
could you please check who voiced the Bloodletting Beast? It has to be Laurence

I want closure goddammit
 
Speaking of Iosefka, I want to use her to launch off another fairly important question that isn't getting much discussion. Iosefka's relevant to this conversation, so bear with me.

We know she wears Choir clothes, she's one of the few people in the game happy about being Great One pregnant, she's turning people into Celestial beings (notice that the beings you kill in her lab don't disappear, indicating they were NPCs), and there's strong evidence she's not the real Iosefka. She also uses the Augur of Ebrietas in battle, which indicates she must be in the Choir because the description of that item straight up says "Hey, people in the Choir use this since they got close to Ebrietas."

When you actually explore her lab from the back, you discover a number of important items, but the one I want to hone in on this time is the Cainhurst Summons. The item description (bolding mine):



The one place in the game that you are guaranteed to be without any memory of how you got there is Iosefka's clinic, which is where you find the summons. It is not on your person when you wake up, but rather, hidden in the back where Iosefka clearly doesn't want you going, to the point where she'll turn hostile if you approach her prior to Rom. We can assume, as a matter of course, that the item description is being truthful if not vague. There's no reason to think the summons is not meant for you.

So an assumed series of events can be:

> Get summoned to Cainhurst Castle
> On your way to Hemwick Crossing, you end up in Iosefka's Clinic in Central Yarnham
> Either the unidentified man from the beginning or Fake Iosefka takes the letter off your person and hides it away
> You wake up with no memory of why you're going to Cainhurst

Cainhurst is, at the time of the game, abandoned. No one should have been able to summon you there. The only things that remain there are seemingly undead servants, ghosts, Logarius, and the Queen of the Vilebloods. Let's go ahead and throw out the servants and ghosts as reasonable guesses for who summoned you, which leaves Logarius and the Queen. Of the two, Logarius seems the least likely guest for two reasons.

For one, Logarius is basically not there mentally. He's emaciated, he has no duties besides defending the throne and he does so voluntarily. The second reason is that, Iosefka would have absolutely no reason to take the summons from you were it from Logarius. Logarius led the Executioners, who were part of the healing church, which the Choir leads. Unless Logarius was planning on turning on the Executioners (and there's no real evidence that's the case), Iosefka has no reason to take it.

She does, however, have reason if it's from Annalise, the queen of the Vilebloods. The Vilebloods are in direct opposition to the Healing Church and Annalise herself says she is Queen of Cainhurst Castle - this dismisses any suspicion that the Vilebloods are merely being imprisoned there or they're holing up in the castle. So it stands to reason that Iosefka, upon seeing a Cainhurst Summons on a patient in the clinic and being an agent for the Church herself, quickly takes it away because she assumes the sick person is up to some bad shit that could end up ruining what the church is trying to do.

This brings me to the actual point I wanted to talk about: You were summoned to Cainhurst, that much is clear. Why?

As mentioned, Cainhurst is abandoned. Did the queen summon you to save her? Why would you agree to do that? I think a lot of this mystery comes down to the Vileblood Covenant in general. Covenants in this game are fairly useless, but Vileblood's quests are bafflingly useless. You can give the queen a thousand blood dregs and all you ever get is the gesture for Deep Respect. You can also offer her the Ring of Betrothal, a key item found only in Chalice Dungeons.



You can ask her to marry you - she says no, you're no use to her if you're not out there hunting for blood dregs.

So when I say this bafflingly useless, I mean it. Let's also quickly establish Blood Dregs.



You may have to squint to see it, but that's, like, blood semen. If the description wasn't enough to make it clear, you're giving her blood dregs in hopes that she gets pregnant and produces an heir for the VIlebloods. Which brings it all back to the question of why you were summoned to Cainhurst in the first place. The easy assumption is that Iosefka took the letter to stop you from doing exactly what you did, killing Logarius and maybe helping to knock up the Queen to produce new vilebloods. But ultimately, isn't that kind of a small concern for a group whose end goal comes that night? Why bother with you at all? That's also so...plain for this mystery. I'm sure there's more to it.

I'm unsure if it's related, but I was thinking today how strange it is that the Upper Cathedral Ward only has one human, the priest with a scythe guarding a doorway. That makes only three living Choir members - Iosefka, the priest, and the man who you met in Bergenwyrth and tried to kill you. I imagine this is significant, if unrelated to your summons, but I wonder what those three people were doing in their locations?

This is a kickass breakdown, but I do have a couple of observations:

- Is the priest with the scythe in the upper ward human? Those enemies appear to be the same slightly gangly, gaunt race that Queen Yharnam is, which I was kind of under the impression was an actual separate race and not human. And I must of missed it - is he actually wearing Choir robes different from the rest of those big priest enemies? That's a nice detail I never picked up on if so.

- Is the church/choir's goal really being achieved this night? I thought the Mensis cult were the ones getting shit done, and they were rogue Byrgenwerth students (who would presumably be at odds with the church).
 

Gbraga

Member
could you please check who voiced the Bloodletting Beast? It has to be Laurence

You know what? Great idea. I'll watch the credits right now.

now that you guys mention it, the covenant stuff all felt like an afterthought


and I respect From too much to say half-assed


maybe one of the DLCs will be mostly PVP and covenants stuff, who knows right?


right, OddMorsel?



please respond

It is half-assed, honestly. I don't even mind, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment at all, but it even feels weird to call them covenants. Might as well just refer to the oaths as quest rewards.

I thought the Mensis cult were the ones getting shit done, and they were rogue Byrgenwerth students (who would presumably be at odds with the church).

That's a common misconception, but the Healing Church itself was founded by "rogue" Byrgenwerth students, the School of Mensis and the Choir are both upper echelons of the Healing Church, as stated by the Upper Cathedral Key:

"The key to the Upper Cathedral Ward seal.

The upper echelons of the Healing Church are formed by the School of Mensis, based in the Unseen Village, and the Choir occupying the Upper Cathedral Ward.

This key brings one a step closer to the Choir."
 

Gbraga

Member
Arianna is voiced by a woman named Pooky. Pooky, Woman of Pleasure.

And Lucy Briggs-Owen is the owner of the wonderful voice of best waifu.

Man, I feel like shit every time I say this, it just feels so bad when the Doll says she loves me, but Amelia's voice is just too stronk.

IS IT OK TO LOVE THEM BOTH?
 
This is a kickass breakdown, but I do have a couple of observations:

- Is the priest with the scythe in the upper ward human? Those enemies appear to be the same slightly gangly, gaunt race that Queen Yharnam is, which I was kind of under the impression was an actual separate race and not human. And I must of missed it - is he actually wearing Choir robes different from the rest of those big priest enemies? That's a nice detail I never picked up on if so.

- Is the church/choir's goal really being achieved this night? I thought the Mensis cult were the ones getting shit done, and they were rogue Byrgenwerth students (who would presumably be at odds with the church).

All are human, the undead and phumetarian bros are in the underground.

Rom presence stopped them to achieve their goal hiding the Veil, thats why you can see the shadow of Yharman and the Celestials heading towards Willem place.
 
And Lucy Briggs-Owen is the owner of the wonderful voice of best waifu.

Man, I feel like shit every time I say this, it just feels so bad when the Doll says she loves me, but Amelia's voice is just too stronk.

IS IT OK TO LOVE THEM BOTH?

"Loving" the Doll then getting raised by her as a cosmic slug is just too weird. "Mom, tell me about granddad and his cool wheelchair Moon Throne."
 

Gbraga

Member
"Loving" the Doll then getting raised by her as a cosmic slug is just too weird. "Mom, tell me about granddad and his cool wheelchair Moon Throne."

I'm ok with this

I find it far more interesting that Laurence has two actors credited to him.
Does he have more dialog outside of the flashback scene in the Grand Cathedral?

I don't think so, but so does Micolash. I don't think it means anything.
 
The Paleblood Sky is just referring to the fact that the moon is, itself, a Great One. Or I guess you could go with the fact that the sky in general is full of Great Ones, "the sky and te cosmos are one". Basically the point of all of those notes is to let you know that Mensis is concerned with the moon and great ones.

I agree with you about the red moon being needed for the rituals (the one reborn), but I don't think that's what the "Paleblood Sky" is referencing. At any rate, the moon doesn't turn orange because you kill Rom :p
 

Gbraga

Member
The Paleblood Sky is just referring to the fact that the moon is, itself, a Great One. Or I guess you could go with the fact that the sky in general is full of Great Ones, "the sky and te cosmos are one". Basically the point of all of those notes is to let you know that Mensis is concerned with the moon and great ones.

I agree with you about the red moon being needed for the rituals (the one reborn), but I don't think that's what the "Paleblood Sky" is referencing. At any rate, the moon doesn't turn orange because you kill Rom :p

Oh, I'm not really trying to make a case for Team Veil, after all, if they're right, I'm wrong. I'm just on team Paleblood is about the moon. I think there are too many evidences. Marcus is with me on this one, too! :D

Or rather, I'm with Marcus, he's been playing this for a long time, but whatever.
 

LiK

Member
The Paleblood Sky is just referring to the fact that the moon is, itself, a Great One. Or I guess you could go with the fact that the sky in general is full of Great Ones, "the sky and te cosmos are one". Basically the point of all of those notes is to let you know that Mensis is concerned with the moon and great ones.

I agree with you about the red moon being needed for the rituals (the one reborn), but I don't think that's what the "Paleblood Sky" is referencing. At any rate, the moon doesn't turn orange because you kill Rom :p

ENB referred to the Paleblood Sky as when the moon turned orange and everything became weird.
 
Oh, I'm not really trying to make a case for Team Veil, after all, if they're right, I'm wrong. I'm just on team Paleblood is about the moon. I think there are too many evidences. Marcus is with me on this one, too! :D

Or rather, I'm with Marcus, he's been playing this for a long time, but whatever.

Oh, I'd agree! The moons pretty much always connected with it, right? I just don't think its necessarily the red moon only if that makes sense.

ENB referred to the Paleblood Sky as when the moon turned orange and everything became weird.
I think he's wrong then lol. That's when the sky is the least pale.
 
This is a kickass breakdown, but I do have a couple of observations:

- Is the priest with the scythe in the upper ward human? Those enemies appear to be the same slightly gangly, gaunt race that Queen Yharnam is, which I was kind of under the impression was an actual separate race and not human. And I must of missed it - is he actually wearing Choir robes different from the rest of those big priest enemies? That's a nice detail I never picked up on if so.

- Is the church/choir's goal really being achieved this night? I thought the Mensis cult were the ones getting shit done, and they were rogue Byrgenwerth students (who would presumably be at odds with the church).

I always assumed the priests were human, especially since they make an effort to gather eyes for their lanterns. Checking wikis, I can't actually find much lore about them, but unlike monsters, they identify you, warn you, then attack you. So they're probably sentient and the scythe guy at the UCW is guarding the door.

I am assuming that Choir is meeting their goal that night by the fact that they're all mostly gone. I think their goal was to get someone pregnant with a God. This goes into speculation more than anything, but I think the Choir and Mensis were enacting their plans the same night and you're just sort of caught in the middle. Mensis used Mensis cages and actually visiting Nightmares to speak to Old Gods - as in, they talked to Gods directly. Look at the description for the Rune Tool.

"Runesmith Caryll, student of Byrgenwerth, transcribed the inhuman utterings of the Great Ones into what are now called Caryll Runes.

The hunter Who retrieves this workshop tool can etch Caryll Runes into the mind to attain their wondrous strength.

Provost Willem would have been proud of Caryll's runes, as they do not rely upon blood in any measure."

So Bergenwyrth tries talking to Old Gods, then Mensis is like "Hey, what if we tried to do this with sacrifices?" and burned themselves to do it with mensis cages. The Choir seemingly involved the Celestial Emissary somehow to speak with the Old Gods.

Again, speculation, but doesn't the name "Celestial Emissary" strike you as odd? He drops Kin Coldblood, so he's clearly not a great one, which puts him at level with Rom. He's also, well, weak as hell. Rom was a tough fight, but not because of Rom itself, but because of the mobs. Celestial Emissary just kind of vaguely swatted at you.

If we assume Rom was a human made into a God, and Micolash kind of implies that to be the case, I wonder if we've been looking at Celestial Emissary all wrong. We're assuming it was an Emissary from the stars, rather than one for the stars. It's strongly implied (about as strongly as this game implies anything) Iosefka can make Celestial mobs from people. What if the way they chose to communicate with the Old Ones was by creating their own?

This is all a really rambling and roundabout way for me to say that I kind of wonder if the Choir was that mob you fought in that boss fight. Obviously, totally speculation, but it's why I think their goal ended that night. The plan was to go to the Old Ones and birth another one, I think.
 

LiK

Member
Oh, I'd agree! The moons pretty much always connected with it, right? I just don't think its necessarily the red moon only if that makes sense.


I think he's wrong then lol. That's when the sky is the least pale.

maybe the term was just a bad translation or misdirection. but i'm inclined to agree with ENB since the term has to be about the sky when it causes the insanity. there's no way it refers to anything else before Rom.
 

Gbraga

Member
And you're absolutely right, "the sky and cosmos are one" can indeed explain "A Paleblood sky" by the "Paleblood is the blood of the Great Ones" line of thought.
 

LiK

Member
And you're absolutely right, "the sky and cosmos are one" can indeed explain "A Paleblood sky" by the "Paleblood is the blood of the Great Ones" line of thought.

yea, I don't think we're supposed to take "Paleblood" literally as the color but rather as it represents the Great Ones.
 
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