Maybe it is like in Monkey Island. This is the second biggest alien I've ever seen.
edit: wiki is telling me you get 2 insight for killing it, so there's your insight for seeing a big alien. As I said, seeing it at first is old news for your hunter.
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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Maybe it is like in Monkey Island. This is the second biggest alien I've ever seen.
edit: wiki is telling me you get 2 insight for killing it, so there's your insight for seeing a big alien. As I said, seeing it at first is old news for your hunter.
He's someone special that's for sure. Wish I had all the dialogues associated with him, seems the wiki is missing a few.
Someone mentioned that he says
"I know it's my fault, just don't hit me anymore!" if you hit him.
And if you talk to the guy who thinks you're a liar, he says he has a murky past. There was also dialogue when you first get arrianna.
Orochinagis
Member
That Warcraft syndrome
ShockingAlberto
Member
You get insight for killing it, you usually also get insight for seeing a boss. You don't with Celestial Emissary. That was the point.
Well,my point is when you see the boss, he is nothing to write home about.
e: although I checked and you get insight for seeing Gascoine transform. Seeing things grow = not insightful.
e2: I don't really know if not getting insight when you see a boss means anything.
You get insight for finding micolash (woah, a guy with a cage in his head!!!!!!!!), and no insight for the shadows of yharnam.
Sometimes I wonder how much stuff in these games is simply a coding or scripting error but it gets treated by the fans as a narrative clue. The Celestial Emissary doesn't grant any insight... what does it mean? Maybe the FROM coder in charge of the the netcode was also in charge of setting up the Emissary's insight check.
I forget where they are but if you notice all the statues around Yarnham turn into statues that look like the dweller. Conceptually over time.
Haha, you can't blame people for overanalyzing when the series is so carefully crafted though. They pay so much attention to the details to tell their narrative, that this happens very often.
In this case in particular though, I'm also inclined to believe it doesn't really mean anything, and I absolutely love the insight mechanic and how cleverly it ties narrative and gameplay.
Well until told otherwise it's both a clue into the nature insight and the CE. So there's no harm in speculation.
Super_Cobra
Member
I have, but when it moves for the 3rd time he throws rocks at me and most of the time they hit me. No matter how much I try to dodge them. The most annoying boss.
that's his long range counter to you being far away from him. Try to clear the spiders a bit closer
I would just make a B-line for its ass take one or two hits with a fire papered weapon and then bail out just out of reach of it AoE attack. If you stay close enough it won't try to hit you with those rocks but you need to keep moving so the spiders don't try and dive on you because that's an insta-kill.
Alebrije
Gold Member
In that case who wil be the nightmare's owner?
theSlacker
Member
Why thought? The stone is pointless in that you can visit the same exact area anyway at the end of the game. It isn't even like getting to the Unseen village early where it is different.
I may be misunderstanding you, but the summons isn't in the area where Iosefka will aggro you, it is actually on the table you start the game on. I took it to mean that you dropped it there when you left, but for gameplay reasons it just doesn't spawn there till after you leave the room.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Do the mini one's give insight the first time you see them?
tassletine
Member
Food for thought.
Is the hunt, not a hunt for beasts as assumed but a hunt for the Bloodborne? Ie the creature that you ultimately become after you eat the umbilical cords? A successor to the Moon Presence? A number of hunters persuing the same quest of becoming a god, like sperm being whittled down to fertilise an egg? With only the strongest surviving?
Are we being tricked into this quest?
I think the Vilebloods are hinted at being vampires by the fact that Annalise devours blood and lives in a castle (also the Dracula reference, arriving in a coach). You could also be a vampire of sorts, indicated by the fact you have a summons to Cainhurst Castle (do you know her?) and power up using blood. That would make you a vampire/werewolf cross.
The enemies sometimes cross themselves before they fight you. I only noticed this on my NG+ playthrough.
Rom = Read Only Memory
RE Shadows of Yharnam. Snakes are a symbol of rebirth or transformation and fertility.
Paleblood: Pale, can also mean inferior according to the dictionary.
Anyone notice the Harry Potter modeled hunter?
Is the hunt, not a hunt for beasts as assumed but a hunt for the Bloodborne? Ie the creature that you ultimately become after you eat the umbilical cords? A successor to the Moon Presence? A number of hunters persuing the same quest of becoming a god, like sperm being whittled down to fertilise an egg? With only the strongest surviving?
Are we being tricked into this quest?
I think the Vilebloods are hinted at being vampires by the fact that Annalise devours blood and lives in a castle (also the Dracula reference, arriving in a coach). You could also be a vampire of sorts, indicated by the fact you have a summons to Cainhurst Castle (do you know her?) and power up using blood. That would make you a vampire/werewolf cross.
The enemies sometimes cross themselves before they fight you. I only noticed this on my NG+ playthrough.
Rom = Read Only Memory
RE Shadows of Yharnam. Snakes are a symbol of rebirth or transformation and fertility.
Paleblood: Pale, can also mean inferior according to the dictionary.
Anyone notice the Harry Potter modeled hunter?
It's interesting that the story can be read as both real and a dream. In that second case, everything that happens after the initial cutscene is a delirium: you get to Yharnam to get your blood ministration, because you are sick. Because the treatment comes from the Great Ones, it induces the nightmare. You are told to transcend the hunt, that is, to wake up - only then will you be cured. To wake up, you need to kill the child born from the Pthumerian Queen (who is pale, as all her race), that is to find the Paleblood. In this sense the Yharnam from the game is a nightmare born of the blood of the Great Ones. This theory also explains the multiplayer - there are many people getting blood ministration treatments; each one is a hunter looking for the paleblood.
XANDER CAGE
Member
You know what mystery I want solved?
Why that door in the Cathedral Ward that should take you to the Big Bridge lantern doesn't open. That would have been a great shortcut.
Why that door in the Cathedral Ward that should take you to the Big Bridge lantern doesn't open. That would have been a great shortcut.
But everybody drinks/uses blood. So I don't think anybody is a vampire. It's just the way it is.
theSlacker
Member
Sealed shut by the Church. They used really strong glue.
Deified Data
Banned
Is the "Byrgenwerth Spider" Rom or Patches?
The Xtortionist
Member
Probably a loading issue. Unlike with most other zones, there wouldn't be a transition-style area to separate Central Yharnam and Cathedral Ward.
Sephiroth_GR_
Member
That would be hilarious...we've been trolled all along!
The lore checks out. Also that room is jam-packed with incense, just like central Cathedral Ward.
I've come to peace with this interpretation. Still, would have been a really neat shortcut.
XANDER CAGE
Member
That makes sense, although I'd sort of assumed that's what the big empty long hallway was for. Ah well.
Smelly5ocks
Member
It seems like cutting off that path might have been a late design change.
The dialog/design definitely feels like they originally wanted the player to get to Oedon chapel by going through the Cleric beast. Makes more sense to me that an agent of the church would be guarding access to the Cathedral Ward.
Loading seems like a plausible reason, but perhaps they found that too many players were missing Father Gascoigne and a large section of Yharnem; and they wanted people to spend more time in that zone.
Can someone clear this up for me?
1. When you decide give your life for Gehrman, it's more like "Groundhog Day", it just repeats as if nothing happened, or "just another hunter"
2. When you just beat Gehrman, you become the Hunter's assistant, just like him? Only to face another hunter through the hunt? What does this mean for Rom, the One Reborn and the church, etc?
3. When you beat the moon presence, are you now the One Reborn after eating the umbilical cords?
Sorry if it doesn't make any sense.
1. When you decide give your life for Gehrman, it's more like "Groundhog Day", it just repeats as if nothing happened, or "just another hunter"
2. When you just beat Gehrman, you become the Hunter's assistant, just like him? Only to face another hunter through the hunt? What does this mean for Rom, the One Reborn and the church, etc?
3. When you beat the moon presence, are you now the One Reborn after eating the umbilical cords?
Sorry if it doesn't make any sense.
The Xtortionist
Member
That hallway with the blood gem chest is a bit suspicious, though it isn't quite as significant as the Tomb of Oedon->Cathedral Ward or Cathedral Ward->Old Yharnam transitions. The cave leading from Cathedral Ward to the pre-Hemwick forest is also pretty meaty, as is the long ladder from the woods to the clinic area.
IDK. Loading seems to be a major issue with the game in general. Maybe some significant optimizations would allow them to open that door? I've noticed that isolated areas like the Lecture Building and Cainhurst load more quickly than connected areas like Central Yharnam, so maybe more optimized loading and smarter streaming logic could clean that stuff up. Bit off topic for your question, but it got me thinking. I would think there's a lot of work to be done on that front.
All I know is that if you let Gehrrman kill you, you stop dreaming. You'll be like the rest of the hunters in Yharnam (Eileen, etc.)
indigo-cyclops
Member
I want to know what Yharnam is like during the day; when you wake up after submitting your life and walk into the rising sun.
Is it a place of perpetual daytime until the Hunt begins anew? Is the Hunt nightly, or something cyclical every so often when things are just right?
Is it a place of perpetual daytime until the Hunt begins anew? Is the Hunt nightly, or something cyclical every so often when things are just right?
OniBarubary
Banned
That'd be sorta neat.
That'd make the bad ending the actual good one. You choose to die which means you wake up cured.
The other two endings would be you refusing to wake up.
When you kill the moon presence you basically become the Moon Presence, looking out for humanity.
On the subject, am I the only one that doesn't think the Moon Presence is necessarily the bad guy here? Literally all he has you do is kill a bunch of Great ones and beasts that are a threat to humanity. It's not like there's any direct benefit to him. In fact, it might just be that the Moon Presence isn't the first of his kind and was once a hunter like you(perhaps he's Ludwig?), as the lore note on beckoning him talks about it as if it has already happened before.
It seems like the Moon Presence is just trying to manage the hunt, and had to go to extremes to the end the hunt that the game takes place in that it didn't have to go to for previous hunts(in which plenty of people survived).
I tend to lean toward the it's a dream arguement, but I don't think it's a singular dream. More like a Matrix dream hosted by various great ones as part of "the hunt". Everything makes sense if you think about it like that.
Super_Cobra
Member
So I killed rom without killing any of the small spiders. I just wait till he was done its attacks and the charged him with the Kirk hammer. It was so much easier and faster not killing the little spiders. Moved on to the next area and now we got more spiders....
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I wonder for what purpose our Hunter came to Yharnam in the first place. His/her original intention before getting amnesiac and get him/herself tangled in all the mess. "Seek the paleblood"? Why would our Hunter seek the paleblood and for what purpose.......?
Also, what makes our Hunter special I wonder, for him/her to be entrusted with the burden/mission (I assume) of completing the Hunt? And *why* would he/she just keep going anyway.... I mean, amnesiac or not, if it was me I'd NOPED the hell out of Yharnam the first moment I see a Werewolf and get out of the city as soon as I can, hahaha. And yet he/she just keeps going... for what purpose (his/her own personal reason, I mean, considering our Hunter is amnesiac after all...)?
Also, what makes our Hunter special I wonder, for him/her to be entrusted with the burden/mission (I assume) of completing the Hunt? And *why* would he/she just keep going anyway.... I mean, amnesiac or not, if it was me I'd NOPED the hell out of Yharnam the first moment I see a Werewolf and get out of the city as soon as I can, hahaha. And yet he/she just keeps going... for what purpose (his/her own personal reason, I mean, considering our Hunter is amnesiac after all...)?
I remember in one of the very first Doll conversations she mentions that you have a "sickly spirit" or something, and that Blood Echoes will cure you? Something along those lines, but yeah, your hunter has a sickness of some sort that's why he came to Yharnam maybe? Which falls in line with the other PCs in DeS, DS and DS2.
Palette Swap
Member
This thread is a terrific read.
I haven't read all the pages but I've been wondering about the story flow itself.
From this player's standpoint, it was weird as hell as the story essentially is:
1. Go through Yharnam to reach the forbidden woods and the university beyond them.
2. Kill Rom to access the unseen village.
3. There, kill the One Reborn.
4. This grants the player access to the second floor of lecture hall and from there to the nightmare of mensis.
5. Killing Mergo's wet nurse brings about the endgame.
Now, as a player I might have lacked attention because I felt steps 4 and 5 kind of went on without any meaningful McGuffin, just moving forward and killing shit until the hunter's dream was on fire. In retrospect, I guess the plan was always to prevent whatever the Mensis were planning but it felt more disjointed than the previous steps. Did I miss something or did the main story exposition unravel a bit there?
To put it differently, I felt a game like Dark Souls communicated your goals in a much more straightforward manner, while this one felt a bit aimless towards the end. This might just be a storytelling conceit, mind you.
I haven't read all the pages but I've been wondering about the story flow itself.
From this player's standpoint, it was weird as hell as the story essentially is:
1. Go through Yharnam to reach the forbidden woods and the university beyond them.
2. Kill Rom to access the unseen village.
3. There, kill the One Reborn.
4. This grants the player access to the second floor of lecture hall and from there to the nightmare of mensis.
5. Killing Mergo's wet nurse brings about the endgame.
Now, as a player I might have lacked attention because I felt steps 4 and 5 kind of went on without any meaningful McGuffin, just moving forward and killing shit until the hunter's dream was on fire. In retrospect, I guess the plan was always to prevent whatever the Mensis were planning but it felt more disjointed than the previous steps. Did I miss something or did the main story exposition unravel a bit there?
To put it differently, I felt a game like Dark Souls communicated your goals in a much more straightforward manner, while this one felt a bit aimless towards the end. This might just be a storytelling conceit, mind you.
RadioJoNES64
Banned
Well I guess since the wet nurse was holding the baby (Which I'm assuming is Mergo) when you killed her, the baby died too. So I guess the point onward from Rom was to kill Mergo.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Our Hunter was afflicted with amnesia as soon as he/she wakes up... for me it's puzzling why he/she just kept going deeper and deeper and deeper into Yharnam seemingly for no real purpose at all (I mean for him/her personally) since if he/she got afflicted with memory loss he/she shouldn't have any real reason to explore the city further...
Maybe all that blood made him/her not of the sound mind and he/she just kept pushing forward just because....? It's weird for me. Even if he/she still remembered about the disease and his/her desire to find a cure.... all of his/her action as depicted by the game doesn't seem like a person trying to find a cure for me.... hmm.
guys remember the very first leaked trailer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx8KTIeSnzs
what curse were they talking about, the sickness perhaps?
and who the hell is that skull with the crown supposed to be? Martyr Logarius?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx8KTIeSnzs
what curse were they talking about, the sickness perhaps?
and who the hell is that skull with the crown supposed to be? Martyr Logarius?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Interesting that hey changed the location of Ebrietas
Kudo
Member
I think the player character is Hunter so hunting the beasts in front of him are just what he wants.
In the opening you can hear the Dolls voice when the Messengers find you "Oh, you found yourself a Hunter" and Micolash also says "A Hunter is a hunter, even in a dream".
Also maybe seeking the Paleblood could return the memories or something?
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I think our Hunter's original purpose coming to Yharnam was to visit Cainhurst Castle, as evidenced by the invitation towards it that specifically mentioned the Hunter by name. After the blood transfusion he/she gets afflicted by amnesia and forget all about it... and by accident left the invitation in Iosefka.
Makes me think he/she is a person of importance after all to be invited to a castle of nobility, and maybe, just maybe, the timeframe from between he/she's get Yharnam blood administered to him/her and him/her waking up was actually quite significant.
Yeah I don't think our PC is a Hunter considering the Hunter organization as I understood was founded in Yharnam and he/she's explicitly stated as an outsider.
Makes me think he/she is a person of importance after all to be invited to a castle of nobility, and maybe, just maybe, the timeframe from between he/she's get Yharnam blood administered to him/her and him/her waking up was actually quite significant.
Yeah I don't think our PC is a Hunter considering the Hunter organization as I understood was founded in Yharnam and he/she's explicitly stated as an outsider.
Isn't there a note in the hunter's dream that says stopping the scourge of beasts will stop the dream?
Since our character is trapped in the dream, I assume our hunter assumes that in order to escape and live freely they need to stop the scourge of beasts. So they keep fighting.
Maybe Annalise needed minions to do some chores, haha.
I think Patches was one of Rom's students in Byrgenwerth, and one of the few to not turn completely into a spider like the others
and kinda eludes to the fact that Ebrietas plays the bigger part of the Greater Ones in the story, no?
and kinda eludes to the fact that Ebrietas plays the bigger part of the Greater Ones in the story, no?
indigo-cyclops
Member
Could that have been Ebrietas in the Chalice Dungeon, she is a boss in there, right?
Icomp
Member
It looks like it's in the place where Amelia is.
Palette Swap
Member
This is kind of my point: Mergo's fate isn't immediately apparent and beforehand, I had no idea what I was there for.