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[Beelzebufo]

maybe the term was just a bad translation or misdirection. but i'm inclined to agree with ENB since the term has to be about the sky when it causes the insanity. there's no way it refers to anything else before Rom.

Why? You find it before you kill Rom, and that's when you actually see a pale moon haha.

It's also not referred to as "Paleblood". "Paleblood" is obviously something people know about (opening cinematic, handwritten notes in various places), but the moon you're talking about is referred to as the "red moon".

Also there's the whole "Laurence beckoned the moon presence" thing, and the moon presence is never with the red moon, so that doesn't make much sense either.

 

[Gbraga]

Alberto, about the Celestial Emissary, he/she/it actually drops the Communion Rune.

Which makes sense with the whole "our means to communicating with the Great Ones" thing too.

If only Caryll was a runesmith from the Healing Church instead of Byrgenwerth, I'd say the way he found to transcribe the Great Ones' sounds was precisely by creating a Celestial Emissary to communicate with them.

There's a lot of mystery surrounding Caryll imo, like the fact that the regular Caryll items mention how proud Willem would've been, but then Willem himself drops what is said to be a "secret Caryll Rune". So he knew Caryll or is it just the game giving us the great one knowledge in a way we can comprehend? Communion is also a secret rune.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Also, another random thought:

I've seen speculation about where the blood the church got that cured the poison and caused the beast scourge actually came from. There's a lot of hints that the blood is from Ebretias.

For one, she seemed imprisoned where she was in the Altar of Despair. Secondly, geographically speaking, the Altar of Despair is directly below the Grand Cathedral where you fought Vicar Amelia, which is the central area of worship for Yarnham. Lastly, note her name.

Ebretias is latin, it's where we get a fairly important word in this context: inebriated, meaning drunk or intoxicated somehow.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Also, another random thought:

I've seen speculation about where the blood the church got that cured the poison and caused the beast scourge actually came from. There's a lot of hints that the blood is from Ebretias.

For one, she seemed imprisoned where she was in the Altar of Despair. Secondly, geographically speaking, the Altar of Despair is directly below the Grand Cathedral where you fought Vicar Amelia, which is the central area of worship for Yarnham. Lastly, note her name.

Ebretias is latin, it's where we get a fairly important word in this context: inebriated, meaning drunk or intoxicated somehow.

I doubt it. Ebrietas's blood causes frenzy, the opposite of what beast/human blood does.

The blood used for blood ministration likely comes from Loran, an area found before Ebreitas was discovered (the actual being, the slugs it uses as a Holy Medium were found before Loran).

 

[Steel]

Why? You find it before you kill Rom, and that's when you actually see a pale moon haha.

It's also not referred to as "Paleblood". "Paleblood" is obviously something people know about (opening cinematic, handwritten notes in various places), but the moon you're talking about is referred to as the "red moon".

Also there's the whole "Laurence beckoned the moon presence" thing, and the moon presence is never with the red moon, so that doesn't make much sense either.

?

 

[Yurt]

I always assumed the priests were human, especially since they make an effort to gather eyes for their lanterns. Checking wikis, I can't actually find much lore about them, but unlike monsters, they identify you, warn you, then attack you. So they're probably sentient and the scythe guy at the UCW is guarding the door.

I am assuming that Choir is meeting their goal that night by the fact that they're all mostly gone. I think their goal was to get someone pregnant with a God. This goes into speculation more than anything, but I think the Choir and Mensis were enacting their plans the same night and you're just sort of caught in the middle. Mensis used Mensis cages and actually visiting Nightmares to speak to Old Gods - as in, they talked to Gods directly. Look at the description for the Rune Tool.



So Bergenwyrth tries talking to Old Gods, then Mensis is like "Hey, what if we tried to do this with sacrifices?" and burned themselves to do it with mensis cages. The Choir seemingly involved the Celestial Emissary somehow to speak with the Old Gods.

Again, speculation, but doesn't the name "Celestial Emissary" strike you as odd? He drops Kin Coldblood, so he's clearly not a great one, which puts him at level with Rom. He's also, well, weak as hell. Rom was a tough fight, but not because of Rom itself, but because of the mobs. Celestial Emissary just kind of vaguely swatted at you.

If we assume Rom was a human made into a God, and Micolash kind of implies that to be the case, I wonder if we've been looking at Celestial Emissary all wrong. We're assuming it was an Emissary from the stars, rather than one for the stars. It's strongly implied (about as strongly as this game implies anything) Iosefka can make Celestial mobs from people. What if the way they chose to communicate with the Old Ones was by creating their own?

This is all a really rambling and roundabout way for me to say that I kind of wonder if the Choir was that mob you fought in that boss fight. Obviously, totally speculation, but it's why I think their goal ended that night. The plan was to go to the Old Ones and birth another one, I think.

yeah I was pretty sure Celestial Emissary was human, and was probably created to communicate with Ebrietas

 

[LiK]

Also, another random thought:

I've seen speculation about where the blood the church got that cured the poison and caused the beast scourge actually came from. There's a lot of hints that the blood is from Ebretias.

For one, she seemed imprisoned where she was in the Altar of Despair. Secondly, geographically speaking, the Altar of Despair is directly below the Grand Cathedral where you fought Vicar Amelia, which is the central area of worship for Yarnham. Lastly, note her name.

Ebretias is latin, it's where we get a fairly important word in this context: inebriated, meaning drunk or intoxicated somehow.

you know, that weird spider alter thing in her room reminded me of the same lower-half of the spider girl in Dark Souls. I wonder if they reused that model, heh

 

[MegaSackman]

Paleblood is actually Paleblood to me, no Palemoon, and the red moon looks like Paleblood.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I doubt it. Ebrietas's blood causes frenzy, the opposite of what beast/human blood does.

The blood used for blood ministration likely comes from Loran, an area found before Ebreitas was discovered (the actual being, the slugs it uses as a Holy Medium were found before Loran).

Her blood doesn't cause frenzy, the red thing she spits at you does.

Her blood is yellowish-grey, you can see it when you strike her.

 

[Draft]

Celestials are man made Great Ones. Huge downgrade over the real thing. The Celestial Emissary is the best the Choir can do via blood manipulation. Rom is also an artificial Great One, but he was turned by insight rather than blood. I'm not clear on whether Byrgenwirth was insightful enough to ask a Great One to change Rom, or if they managed it themselves.

 

[Gbraga]

Why? You find it before you kill Rom, and that's when you actually see a pale moon haha.

It's also not referred to as "Paleblood". "Paleblood" is obviously something people know about (opening cinematic, handwritten notes in various places), but the moon you're talking about is referred to as the "red moon".

Also there's the whole "Laurence beckoned the moon presence" thing, and the moon presence is never with the red moon, so that doesn't make much sense either.

I wouldn't say the opening cinematic shows him knowing about it, rewatching it yesterday reminded me of how Gilbert also reacts to "Paleblood? Hmm, never heard of it, but if it's blood you want, you should seek the Healing Church". The opening guy just says "you came to the right place, Yharnam is the capital of blood ministration", or, in other words "well, if it's blood, we have it"

Also, another random thought:

I've seen speculation about where the blood the church got that cured the poison and caused the beast scourge actually came from. There's a lot of hints that the blood is from Ebretias.

For one, she seemed imprisoned where she was in the Altar of Despair. Secondly, geographically speaking, the Altar of Despair is directly below the Grand Cathedral where you fought Vicar Amelia, which is the central area of worship for Yarnham. Lastly, note her name.

Ebretias is latin, it's where we get a fairly important word in this context: inebriated, meaning drunk or intoxicated somehow.

Well, the ashen disease started in what now is Old Yharnam, right? There you find the Pthumerian Chalice, so it could be related to that.

 

[Smelly5ocks]

yea, I don't think we're supposed to take "Paleblood" literally as the color but rather as it represents the Great Ones.

I'm also leaning towards the idea that Paleblood is a proper noun.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Her blood doesn't cause frenzy, the red thing she spits at you does.

Her blood is yellowish-grey, you can see it when you strike her.

Fair enough. Blood ministration still existed before Ebreitas was found however. Blood ministration changed at some point though (Celestial Emmisary) so maybe they got help from Ebrietas for that. I guess you could argue Loran or the Pthumerians found Ebrietas first? Seems unlikely.

I wouldn't say the opening cinematic shows him knowing about it, rewatching it yesterday reminded me of how Gilbert also reacts to "Paleblood? Hmm, never heard of it, but if it's blood you want, you should seek the Healing Church". The opening guy just says "you came to the right place, Yharnam is the capital of blood ministration", or, in other words "well, if it's blood, we have it"

That's understandable! Someone definitely knows about it though, right? I think the other two "Paleblood" notes are not messenger notes but left-behind ones.

 

[Yurt]

always assumed Paleblood was a reference to their blood color

kinda like calling a human a redblood or something

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Celestials are man made Great Ones. Huge downgrade over the real thing. The Celestial Emissary is the best the Choir can do via blood manipulation.

Also one thing I noticed, every Great One you meet causes your insight to go up by 2-3. Just by meeting them. This even includes Rom.

This is not true for Celestial Emissary. In fact, I think they might be the only boss that doesn't cause your insight to raise by gazing upon them at all.

 

[Draft]

The opening guy is Laurence (or the dream/ghost of Laurence) so obviously he knows about Paleblood.

 

[Gbraga]

Fair enough. Blood ministration still existed before Ebreitas was found however. Blood ministration changed at some point though (Celestial Emmisary) so maybe they got help from Ebrietas for that.



That's understandable! Someone definitely knows about it though, right? I think the other two "Paleblood" notes are not messenger notes but left-behind ones.

Oh, definitely. Someone had to tell us to seek Paleblood in order to transcend the hunt, after all.

The opening guy is Laurence (or the dream/ghost of Laurence) so obviously he knows about Paleblood.

Eeh, I still think Laurence is the skull.

 

[Smelly5ocks]

The opening guy is Laurence (or the dream/ghost of Laurence) so obviously he knows about Paleblood.

Possibly, got any proof to back that thought up?

 

[Beelzebufo]

The opening guy is Laurence (or the dream/ghost of Laurence) so obviously he knows about Paleblood.

That doesn't make any sense lol.

 

[Draft]

Possibly, got any proof to back that thought up?

Nope! But I think the guy in the opening being some random blood ministration dork who immediately gets eaten by a werewolf is very lame. The idea that the PC is some random dork who happens to also be the fated Hunter who can finally end the dream is also lame.

Gerhman thinks Laurence is out there somewhere working to end the dream. What better way than recruiting Hunters with the potential to do just that?

My theory and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Yurt]

the guy in the opening is missing his right eye (you can see a bit of blood underneath)

Laurence's skull was cracked on the left, and he's too dead to be in the clinic

 

[Yurt]

Nope! But I think the guy in the opening being some random blood ministration dork who immediately gets eaten by a werewolf is very lame. The idea that the PC is some random dork who happens to also be the fated Hunter who can finally end the dream is also lame.

Gerhman thinks Laurence is out there somewhere working to end the dream. What better way than recruiting Hunters with the potential to do just that?

My theory and I'm sticking to it!

Laurence is kinda out there

as a headless Bloodletting Beast lol

 

[Mermandala]

Illuminated Blood that reflects the "light" of another - the cosmic Great Ones - in the manner that the moon reflects the sun's light is one way to think about Paleblood. Whether it's a genetic trait or something infused or something incurred has several possibilities.

 

[LiK]

man, when is that freakin' guide out? I want certain things to be confirmed.

 

[Gbraga]

man, when is that freakin' guide out? I want certain things to be confirmed.

Guide pls

 

[MegaSackman]

But the guide is suposed to reveal story content? I always thought that it'd be some walkthrough without spoilers.

 

[Ferrio]

Oedon Chapel Dweller and Laurence are also voiced by the same person. May or may not matter.

I'm thinking that can't be coincidence? Maybe laurence didn't die? But that was his skull...so ya can't be

 

[LiK]

But the guide is suposed to reveal story content? I always thought that it'd be some walkthrough without spoilers.

it will definitely confirm certain lore stuff if it's anything like the DkS2 guide. and there's a Miyazaki interview so that will probably help as well.

 

[Sephiroth_GR_]

I think the guide will reveal the names from the enemies (direct info from From Software) if that should help.

 

[Ferr986]

Nope! But I think the guy in the opening being some random blood ministration dork who immediately gets eaten by a werewolf is very lame. The idea that the PC is some random dork who happens to also be the fated Hunter who can finally end the dream is also lame.

Gerhman thinks Laurence is out there somewhere working to end the dream. What better way than recruiting Hunters with the potential to do just that?

My theory and I'm sticking to it!

Well, thats what is the PC in all of the Souls series lol. Random guy that ends up being the chosen one.

 

[Vampirolol]

What if Bloodborne is a nightmare and doesn't make any sense?

 

[LiK]

What if Bloodborne is a nightmare and doesn't make any sense?

i'm okay with that

 

[Monochromaticx]

I thought the hunter in the intro was father Gascoigne . they both had the eye covers and same facial hair.

 

[ElFly]

Yup, and Vaati even put up a video linking Umbasa and the Talisman of Beasts to project Beast, speculating that the end of magic would lead to the development of advanced technology and medicine. As Defuser said in his edit.

Which is why I believe that's the exact reason they removed it, they didn't want to mislead people and it was just a wink wink reference. After all, now we know that not only there is some kind of magic in Bloodborne, but it's an ancient and advanced kind of magic, in a way that is very removed from the "now there's no magic so it's more realistic" line of thought. And gameplaywise, magic is now used in the form of items that take QS bullets to be used, with the arcane stat for scaling. It's not because of The Old One being the symbol of god, it's just because of the Lovecraft inspiration. Demon's had nothing to do with anything.

If you really want to stretch both games to be related, IMHO it is easier to make Bloodborne a prequel to Demon.

-Bloodborne happens: you become a worm great one.
-Eventually you come to power. You kill a ton of people and destroy civilization
-Other great ones leave, having nothing more to do now that you dominate the planet
-The monumentals put you to sleep.
-You are awaken by King Allant. You are now a giant worm/tree, the Old One.
-They misunderstand Paleblood with Souls. They work the same and are technically the same (since paleblood is clear in color, it could easily be the souls you see in Demon).
-One of the surviving hunters, who covered their eyes, helps another player to kill the Old one, the Maiden in Black.

It's prolly a stretch and the games aint meant to be related, but it's what I see as the easier explanation.

Well, thats what is the PC in all of the Souls series lol. Random guy that ends up being the chosen one.

Chosen ones are lame. The hero in the Souls games just happens to be the dead/zombie/hunter that tried the hardest.

 

[Coconut]

What if Bloodborne is a nightmare and doesn't make any sense?

I don't know, you tell us what if.

 

[Gbraga]

I'm thinking that can't be coincidence? Maybe laurence didn't die? But that was his skull...so ya can't be

I didn't really care about the Dweller until I killed him. Then he droped Formless Oedon and my head started to shudder uncontrollably.

 

[Beelzebufo]

If you really want to stretch both games to be related, IMHO it is easier to make Bloodborne a prequel to Demon.

-Bloodborne happens: you become a worm great one.
-Eventually you come to power. You kill a ton of people and destroy civilization
-Other great ones leave, having nothing more to do now that you dominate the planet
-The monumentals put you to sleep.
-You are awaken by King Allant. You are now a giant worm/tree, the Old One.
-They misunderstand Paleblood with Souls. They work the same and are technically the same (since paleblood is clear in color, it could easily be the souls you see in Demon).
-One of the surviving hunters, who covered their eyes, helps another player to kill the Old one, the Maiden in Black.

It's prolly a stretch and the games aint meant to be related, but it's what I see as the easier explanation

lol that's actually pretty funny. I agree with you at the end there, but I might just pretend this is right anyway.

I didn't really care about the Dweller until I killed him. Then he droped Formless Oedon and my head started to shudder uncontrollably.

Me too! I guess if its a monk that kind of makes sense?

 

[ElFly]

By the time you face Celestial Emissary, you've seen several guys like that so maybe you are used to them, and your insight doesn't go up.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

I also find it odd that the enemies (Pthumerians) patrolling Cathedral Ward disappear after beating Rom. Did I miss something?

 

[ElFly]

I also find it odd that the enemies (Pthumerians) patrolling Cathedral Ward disappear after beating Rom. Did I miss something?

They were killed when the ritual in unseen village started; you can find three hardcore hunters if you go back to the prison, who prolly killed them all.


e: maybe I misread

 

[Orochinagis]

always assumed Paleblood was a reference to their blood color

kinda like calling a human a redblood or something

For me is people who have not been using the Church blood healing or with a condition in their blood.

What if Bloodborne is a nightmare and doesn't make any sense?

The best mistery is the one being unaswered

 

[Coconut]

I also find it odd that the enemies (Pthumerians) patrolling Cathedral Ward disappear after beating Rom. Did I miss something?

They aren't pthumerians they are creations of the choir the only ones that are gone are the ones with the crosses.

This is from the wiki:

"White-Garbed Hunters: Though they were “doctors,” they sought to do the bidding of the Choir, and would apply blood ministrations with the intent of experimentation, rather than healing. Many of the twisted things the church produced were a result of this experimentation. The great giants (with axes and wrecking balls) as well as the grave keepers near them are products of these experiments, and are legendary beasts that would join the church on the hunt."

 

[Beelzebufo]

They aren't pthumerians they are creations of the choir the only ones that are gone are the ones with the crosses.

How do we know they aren't Pthumerians? They look like Pthumerians

The big dudes use the same weapons as the Chalice zombies too. I think it's likely he was talking about the Bag Boys anyway.

 

[Super_Cobra]

I can't kill Rom the spider, I get about a quarter of its lif and it just keep throwing rocks and stuff and the little spiders gang up.
Also can't kill the other spider and then some enemy that has a bag killed me and took me somewhere and the boss there killed me. Ugh.

 

[Monochromaticx]

I can't kill Rom the spider, I get about a quarter of its lif and it just keep throwing rocks and stuff and the little spiders gang up.
Also can't kill the other spider and then some enemy that has a bag killed me and took me somewhere and the boss there killed me. Ugh.

Take your time and kill all the small spiders

 

[ShockingAlberto]

By the time you face Celestial Emissary, you've seen several guys like that so maybe you are used to them, and your insight doesn't go up.

But that's also true of beasts, snakes, and Gehrman.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I can't kill Rom the spider, I get about a quarter of its lif and it just keep throwing rocks and stuff and the little spiders gang up.
Also can't kill the other spider and then some enemy that has a bag killed me and took me somewhere and the boss there killed me. Ugh.

If you really can't kill Rom, I made this video showing a strategy that will get him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Lig-fcYXg

It's basically risk free, but you have to have enough Bone Marrow Ash to pull it off, enough blood vials to heal, the cannon, and 30 strength with which to wield the cannon.

 

[indigo-cyclops]

They aren't pthumerians they are creations of the choir the only ones that are gone are the ones with the crosses.

The guys that point and moan when they see you, with the lanterns, look like Pthumerians to me. But I don't know that for sure. And right outside the Chapel to the left, the two guys that patrol are gone for me. Guys with crosses are gone too. Wasn't sure if its a scripted thing that they disappear.

Bag guy in the corner as well.

 

[ElFly]

But that's also true of beasts, snakes, and Gehrman.

-Woah, this beast is really big. This is giving me the insight that reality is crazy
-Woah, this snake is really big. This is giving me the insight that reality is crazy
-Woah, Gerhman can fucking walk and moves super fast. This is giving me the insight that reality is crazy

 

[ShockingAlberto]

-Woah, this beast is really big. This is giving me the insight that reality is crazy
-Woah, this snake is really big. This is giving me the insight that reality is crazy
-Woah, Gerhman can fucking walk and moves super fast. This is giving me the insight that reality is crazy

But by that same logic, Celestial Emissary is way bigger than all the mobs.