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[Gbraga]

Personally, I think that while it's possible that Ebrietas is the current source of old blood for the Church, it couldn't be the original source.

She drops the Great Isz Chalice, which states that it's the first chalice brought to surface since the times of Byrgenwerth, and it's what granted the Choir audience with Ebrietas.

But in Byrgenwerth the holy medium that lead to the creation of the Healing Church was found, Willem advised his followers to feat the old blood before the Choir was granted audience with Ebrietas.

I think Oedon is more likely to be the original medium, since not only he's formless and represented by blood (so they literally found his old blood, instead of finding a giant alien and extracting blood from it), but also they created the Oedon chapel, where he was venerated.

 

[Timeaisis]

So why did Blood Healing start? I still don't understand the point of it.

 

[Adaren]

The trophy for beating Amygdala refers to it as a Great One, as it does for every Great One boss in the game.

Good point; thanks!

How many are there?

Ebrietas
Amygdala
Moon Presence
Wet Nurse
Mother Brain

That's it?

I think I subscribe to the theory that Oedon + Moon Presence + Wet Nurse are "natural" Great Ones, Mother Brain + Ebrietas + Rom are humans ascended into Great Ones, and Amygdala is just a nightmare creature (possibly a kin?) that gets worshiped by the Church.

 

[Toxi]

So why did Blood Healing start? I still don't understand the point of it.

It cures all sicknesses and is a way for the church to study the effects of blood ministration.

 

[Gbraga]

So why did Blood Healing start? I still don't understand the point of it.

My guess is just that Laurence and his associates genuinely wanted to help people, by using the old blood's healing properties to heal diseases, and not just to partake in communion with the great ones.

EDIT: I'm not sure how the blood saints fit into this, though, I mean, how did they make it so their blood had healing properties as well?

 

[Shengar]

Good point; thanks!



I think I subscribe to the theory that Oedon + Moon Presence + Wet Nurse are "natural" Great Ones, Mother Brain + Ebrietas + Rom are humans ascended into Great Ones, and Amygdala is just a nightmare creature (possibly a kin?) that gets worshiped by the Church.

I think Ebrietas already turned into a Great One considering how long she resides within the labyrinth. Rom on other hand, seems still in its infancy and have yet to ascend into full godhood.

 

[Experien]

Rom drops the Kin Coldblood, which probably makes it Kin and not a true Great One.

ROM is not Kin.

According to the guide, there are only TWO kin creatures in the entire game. Celestials (boss and little ones) and Ebrietas.

What does that say?

 

[ElFly]

If Mother Brain is the one causing Frenzy in the open areas of Nightmare of Mensis, why doesn't it cause Frenzy when you go to kill it personally?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Celestial Emissary is also a Great One according to trophy descriptions, forgot about that one.

 

[Shengar]

ROM is not Kin.

According to the guide, there are only TWO kin creatures in the entire game. Celestials (boss and little ones) and Ebrietas.

What does that say?

So many conflicting account, but at least Ebrietas being a kin is in line with Redgrave speculation. What is Rom then?

 

[Kazuhira]

Personally, I think that while it's possible that Ebrietas is the current source of old blood for the Church, it couldn't be the original source.

I think the pthumerian queen was the original source,the city is even named after her.

 

[ElFly]

We are trying to distinguish between humans-that-ascended-into-Great-Ones and Legit-Great-Ones.

Maybe there's no such difference; given the reproductive system of the Great Ones, there's nothing saying Mergo and the Moon Presence weren't humans at some point (or maybe another alien-equivalent-to-human ascended to Great One).

It is clear that if Rom is a great one, it is just starting its evolution.

Kin is maybe a special designation of ascended humans, but since Rom drops a kin blood, she is definitely kin.

 

[Shengar]

Oh man, in Redgrave writing, first he said that Choir was the one who met with Ebrietas and commune with her for the first time. Then he write that it was Willem and his scholar who met her. Seriously this guy need an editor.

 

[Toxi]

ROM is not Kin.

According to the guide, there are only TWO kin creatures in the entire game. Celestials (boss and little ones) and Ebrietas.

What does that say?

Then that's interesting. Perhaps Rom was once kin, and the blood you get from him is a frozen remnant of her previous self. That would be evidence that Rom was not always a Great One.

Huh, curiouser and curiouser.

If Mother Brain is the one causing Frenzy in the open areas of Nightmare of Mensis, why doesn't it cause Frenzy when you go to kill it personally?

Either it was because the Brain of Mensis was injured, or the frenzy light was an intentional thing the brain stopped doing. Why?

My guess is that the brain was afraid up in that tower, its eyes surrounded by constant stimuli. The frenzy light was the brain just blindly lashing out at anything moving. When it fell into the abyss of peaceful, empty dark, it was no longer afraid.

 

[PirateKing]

ROM is not Kin.

According to the guide, there are only TWO kin creatures in the entire game. Celestials (boss and little ones) and Ebrietas.

What does that say?

Celestial Emissary is also a Great One according to trophy descriptions, forgot about that one.

Yeah what about this then? If the tophy says Great One then why does the guide state otherwise?

 

[Toxi]

Yeah what about this then? If the tophy says Great One then why does the guide state otherwise?

It's possible to be a Great One and Kin at the same time. Ebrietas is definitely a Great One, and the guide says she's Kin.

I think the pthumerian queen was the original source,the city is even named after her.

Theory: It's Yharnam's blood mixed with Oedon's. She became pregnant with what was likely Oedon's child and the church was built on top of Oedon's tomb.

 

[Gbraga]

I think the pthumerian queen was the original source,the city is even named after her.

Hmm, indeed, that makes sense. I wonder how that happened though. Ebrietas is only hostile when you attack her, but Yharnam comes for you, and while the fight wasn't really difficult, I think it was supposed to be, so it couldn't be easy for Byrgenwerth scholars to restrain her and take her blood.

Theory: It's Yharnam's blood mixed with Oedon's. She became pregnant with what was likely Oedon's child and the church was built on top of Oedon's tomb.

I'm also puzzled by the Tomb of Oedon. Is he really dead? How can something Formless die? And worse, keep having children every time the red moon hangs low?

Would it even make sense to call it Tomb of Oedon if it's not meant for Oedon to be there?

 

[Experien]

Good point; thanks!



I think I subscribe to the theory that Oedon + Moon Presence + Wet Nurse are "natural" Great Ones, Mother Brain + Ebrietas + Rom are humans ascended into Great Ones, and Amygdala is just a nightmare creature (possibly a kin?) that gets worshiped by the Church.

Maybe kin is another versions of "natural" Great Ones? Ebrietas is a "natural" and probably "lesser" Great One since she was left behind. But that doesn't work cause Iosefka's clinic has half human, half celestial on a table. Unless fake Iosefka is a possessed person that knows how to make people into celestials? The Emissary is said to be a Great One as well.

Amygdala is a Great One (but not kin) that is probably from a different faction of guys since it resides in the nightmare realm and is worshipped by a trickster (Patches). It is all surrounded by hostile environment whereas Ebrietas only attacks you cause you attack it. The other Amygdala's around town are called "lesser Amygdalas." Amygdala turned ROM human to spider after asking for a million eyes on his brain. Seems pretty hostile. All ROM's students are spiders but honest so they just follow like soldiers whereas Patches had more mischievous nature and Amygdala saw that and kept part of his humanity and in turn, Patches is like an igor to Amygdala?


RANDOM TALKING TIME: What if Ebrietas came to "reality" or whatever and saw the transformed ROM and developed an attachment OR felt sorry for what happened to him and stayed behind to stay close. That is why it sure does look like ROM is on the altar where you find Ebrietas. It just wants ROM back but his remains are lifeless and perhaps didn't partake in the blood?

Ebrietas was always written to be one to talk to the people and never remember anything bad said about her.

 

[Toxi]

Hmm, indeed, that makes sense. I wonder how that happened though. Ebrietas is only hostile when you attack her, but Yharnam comes for you, and while the fight wasn't really difficult, I think it was supposed to be, so it couldn't be easy for Byrgenwerth scholars to restrain her and take her blood.

Yharnam's wrists were in shackles, so maybe they restrained her.

 

[PirateKing]

I still have no idea who Mergo or Mennis were. And the whole stillborn brain

 

[Dmonzy]

Good point; thanks!



I think I subscribe to the theory that Oedon + Moon Presence + Wet Nurse are "natural" Great Ones, Mother Brain + Ebrietas + Rom are humans ascended into Great Ones, and Amygdala is just a nightmare creature (possibly a kin?) that gets worshiped by the Church.

I'm fairly convinced that Amygdala is a Great One. Similar to the Wet Nurse, it's able to make "clones" or be in multiple places at once. So when you "kill" it in the Frontier, you don't actually kill it. Hence why there's no Nightmare Slain note.

 

[Shengar]

Well, if Willem trully managed to commune with a true Great One and have his brain connected like an umbilical cord suggest, that mean Willem isn't senile at all. He already achieved what he sought for and think of us as something insignificant.

 

[Toxi]

I still have no idea who Mergo or Mennis were. And the whole stillborn brain

Mergo is the baby crying that Mergo's Wet Nurse protects. The School of Mensis was a division of the Healing Church that tried to commune with Mergo. But their brains were stillborne in the process, indicating Mergo is dead (but alive at the same time?).

 

[ElFly]

Hmm, indeed, that makes sense. I wonder how that happened though. Ebrietas is only hostile when you attack her, but Yharnam comes for you, and while the fight wasn't really difficult, I think it was supposed to be, so it couldn't be easy for Byrgenwerth scholars to restrain her and take her blood.

The scholars had motherfucking Gehrman, in the prime of his youth, with them. Clearly that fucker, his scythe and his quickening bone are more than a match for anyone but MP.

I'm also puzzled by the Tomb of Oedon. Is he really dead? How can something Formless die? And worse, keep having children every time the red moon hangs low?

Would it even make sense to call it Tomb of Oedon if it's not meant for Oedon to be there?

The "Tomb of Oedon" also fucks me up. But Lovecraft says “In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulu waits dreaming”, so maybe in bloodborne it isn't that 100% clear how to kill a Great One. The non-beating-MP endings suggests the hunt goes on, so maybe other hunters are sent to rekill Mergo, just in case.

 

[PirateKing]

Mergo is the baby crying that Mergo's Wet Nurse protects. The School of Mensis was a division of the Healing Church that tried to commune with Mergo. But their brains were stillborne, indicating Mergo is dead (but alive at the same time?).

But was Mensis a person? I suppose Mergo is like the queen, lost its physical form but its conscious lives. I still don't understand why the queen bows when you kill the Wet Nurse.

Also is it true if you play the music box after you kill the boss, the baby laughs?

 

[Gbraga]

Oh, another point I only thought about yesterday (finally got the platinum), after getting the Root Chalice for the Layer 5 Pthumeru.

Its description says:

"The Pthumerian monarch was traditionally a woman who assumed a name with classical roots."

So Yharnam wasn't her name specifically, but a name given by her once she became Ihyll? That's largely irrelevant, but made me remember ENB's video where he talks about how "it's the curse of Yharnam" could be talking not only about the city, so it's the curse of whoever becomes Yharnam to carry the child of blood? And why would that be a tradition if it never works?

I'm not even sure if I'm making sense. This fucking game, man. I can't think of anything else ever since it came out.

Well, if Willem trully managed to commune with a true Great One and have his brain connected like an umbilical cord suggest, that mean Willem isn't senile at all. He already achieved what he sought for and think of us as something insignificant.

Yeah, makes sense, and Willem's state is actually in my opinion yet another hint that Rom isn't actually vacuous, along with Micolash's desire to be granted eyes just like Rom (which wouldn't make sense if he actually believed it would make him empty/stupid) and, more importantly:

"The Byrgenwerth spider hides all manner of rituals, certain to reveal nothing, for true enlightenment need not be shared."

It's also poetic how, even though she ascended and was granted the knowledge they yearned for, she just wouldn't share anything with her former colleagues. Maybe because she didn't care, maybe because she realized certain secrets are better left untold.

The scholars had motherfucking Gehrman, in the prime of his youth, with them. Clearly that fucker, his scythe and his quickening bone are more than a match for anyone but MP.

That actually makes a lot of sense, really.

The "Tomb of Oedon" also fucks me up. But Lovecraft says “In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulu waits dreaming”, so maybe in bloodborne it isn't that 100% clear how to kill a Great One. The non-beating-MP endings suggests the hunt goes on, so maybe other hunters are sent to rekill Mergo, just in case.

Isn't that more of a "dreams are separate planes of existance" thing rather than "dead isn't really dead", though? Even though one could argue that those two statements complement each other, I guess.

It's just that reading that passage reminded me of Micolash

But indeed, it's only natural that death is yet another thing we'll never fully comprehend about the Great Ones.

 

[Dmonzy]

I'm also puzzled by the Tomb of Oedon. Is he really dead? How can something Formless die? And worse, keep having children every time the red moon hangs low?

Would it even make sense to call it Tomb of Oedon if it's not meant for Oedon to be there?

I really like the theory that Oedon isn't dead, and instead he's the baby's cry you hear throughout the game in key locations. Since he's formless the creators couldn't portray him as a character, and perhaps the citizens assumed he was dead since they couldn't commune with him.

 

[Kieli]

Yep. You have to wait for forty minutes doing the Make Contact gesture while watching the Doll's fingers, and then you get a million souls.

What? I stared at the doll's fingers with the looking glass/telescope and I got about 80 or so souls after a few seconds.

 

[ElFly]

But was Mensis a person? I suppose Mergo is like the queen, lost its physical form but its conscious lives. I still don't understand why the queen bows when you kill the Wet Nurse.

Mensis was an academic/research organization, formed by the church to replace Byrgenwerth once Willem became catatonic/Laurence broke contact with Willem.

It seems that the queen that gave birth to Mergo was still horrified by the birth of Mergo, and so it thanks you for killing the abomination.

 

[Kazuhira]

Also is it true if you play the music box after you kill the boss, the baby laughs?

That´s true but i don´t remember if you have to do it during or after the battle.
I guess it should be during battle because the baby is dead after killing the nurse.

 

[KittenMaster]

That reminds me. You can hear an eerie chanting (like a woman's voice) in the real world hunter workshop if you stand in the correct spot which is distinct from the baby cries. I'm not sure if it's insight related or not.

 

[Defuser]

I seriously don't like the theory of gehrman use to have a wife/lover just because of the doll that some people like to believe, it's dumb. There is literally no evidence or what sort that gave a impression of it, creating a doll in image of his wife? There's literally thousands of men/women in the real world that have human size dolls but they are single/never dated before. Lover? If thats the case Gehrman would have call out her name alongside with Laurence and Master Willem when he was sleeping or have any dialogue/item involving her but there is none. That Doll's clothes description is too vague as it doesn't point out who made it or belongs to who, it could be anybody. Found in the abandon workshop? Gehrman isn't the only hunter using the workshop, he has apprentices, fellow hunters,fellow brygenworth scholars, the doll could be made by any one of them.

Does Rom count?

Rom is a kin. Not a great one or else she would drop a great one blood instead of a kin coldblood.

 

[Toxi]

That reminds me. You can hear an eerie chanting (like a woman's voice) in the real world hunter workshop if you stand in the correct spot which is distinct from the baby cries. I'm not sure if it's insight related or not.

That one stumped me for a while. It's one of the NPCs in Cathedral Ward located directly above; the sound just carries into the Hunter's Dream. The chanting stops when the Red Moon rises and the NPCs go silent.

 

[ElFly]

Oh, another point I only thought about yesterday (finally got the platinum), after getting the Root Chalice for the Layer 5 Pthumeru.

Its description says:

"The Pthumerian monarch was traditionally a woman who assumed a name with classical roots."

You may have it backwards

Great chalices unlock deeper reaches of the labyrinth. Pthumeru Ihyll was the title of both the Phumerian monarch and its capital.

So Yharnam adopted the Ihyll name, but later the city was called Yharnam. It's weird.

 

[Adaren]

I really like the theory that Oedon isn't dead, and instead he's the baby's cry you hear throughout the game in key locations. Since he's formless the creators couldn't portray him as a character, and perhaps the citizens assumed he was dead since they couldn't commune with him.

I recall having a similar thought when playing the game.

The Great One Oedon, lacking form, exists only in voice

(this could also refer to it being venerated by the Church, despite being formless/conceptual Great One)

 

[Ferr986]

Hmm, indeed, that makes sense. I wonder how that happened though. Ebrietas is only hostile when you attack her, but Yharnam comes for you, and while the fight wasn't really difficult, I think it was supposed to be, so it couldn't be easy for Byrgenwerth scholars to restrain her and take her blood.

I don't feel like they even found Yarhnam herself. There's not any note about that. They probably just found her blood. I though Ptumerians already used her blood.

I seriously don't like the theory of gehrman use to have a wife/lover just because of the doll that some people like to believe, it's dumb. There is literally no evidence or what sort that gave a impression of it, creating a doll in image of his wife? There's literally thousands of men/women in the real world that have human size dolls but they are single/never dated before. Lover? If thats the case Gehrman would have call out her name alongside with Laurence and Master Willem when he was sleeping or have any dialogue/item involving her but there is none. That Doll's clothes description is too vague as it doesn't point out who made it or belongs to who, it could be anybody. Found in the abandon workshop? Gehrman isn't the only hunter using the workshop, he has apprentices, fellow hunters,fellow brygenworth scholars, the doll could be made by any one of them.

Yes, as I said, I think the doll is not related to Gerhman but his apprentice, she's found praying in the tomb where you find the old bone, related to Gerhman's apprentice, in the real workshop. The question is, who was that apprentice?

 

[Gbraga]

You may have it backwards



So Yharnam adopted the Ihyll name, but later the city was called Yharnam. It's weird.

Oh, that definitely makes more sense. Thanks.

I don't feel like they even found Yarhnam herself. There's not any note about that. They probably just found her blood. I though Ptumerians already used her blood.

Hmmm, yeah, the way they talk about Old Blood definitely make me think that it was literally blood that they found.

 

[denshuu]

I don't think the item an enemy drops is always indicative of what the monster is. Unless Patches is a Great One, since he drops Great One's Wisdom.

 

[Skii]

How you can state this? "Want", "manipulate"... I think is uncorrect to apply this kind of intentions to something like Great Ones, as they appear in the game. In the Unseen Village a note say something like "stop the ritual of Mensis or everyone wil become beasts". So how you can question the morality, for example, of Moon Presence. Is it really doing something wrong manipulating you to the Nightmare?

They are manipulating hunters. Moon Presence forces hunters to go through a hunt to kill the newborn of another Great One. It also has taken captive Gehrman to guide the hunters in their mission.

Amygdala straight up attacks you in Nightmare Frontier and the lesser-Amygdala's grab you and cause Frenzy. Amygdala is also using patches to deceive you.

The ritual of Mensis isn't what is causing the plague. That message is probably deception from someone like patches/Micolash/Great Ones to kill you in the Nightmare.

We are trying to distinguish between humans-that-ascended-into-Great-Ones and Legit-Great-Ones.

Maybe there's no such difference; given the reproductive system of the Great Ones, there's nothing saying Mergo and the Moon Presence weren't humans at some point (or maybe another alien-equivalent-to-human ascended to Great One).

It is clear that if Rom is a great one, it is just starting its evolution.

Kin is maybe a special designation of ascended humans, but since Rom drops a kin blood, she is definitely kin.

Yeah, I'm starting to think kin means humans that have turned into aliens/Great Ones. Most turn into plain aliens whilst there are others that ascend and become Great Ones like Ebrietas and Celestial Emissary.

But then again, I wouldn't be surprised in DLC if we fight a Great One called "Cosmos" who used a human surrogate for the birth of Ebrietas completely confusing the matter even further!

So I would say in the true ending, we are kin as we ascend to a Great One rather than being born from a surrogate as one.

 

[Defuser]

I recall having a similar thought when playing the game.

The Great One Oedon, lacking form, exists only in voice

(this could also refer to it being venerated by the Church, despite being formless/conceptual Great One)

Everytime we gain a insight we will hear a sort of a whispering voice together along with a sound effect. so........

I don't think the item an enemy drops is always indicative of what the monster is. Unless Patches is a Great One, since he drops Great One's Wisdom.

It's just a fragment of the Great One's wisdom just like Madman's knowledge,if you want to apply that theory then all the great on'es wisdom we collected on human corpses are great ones but they are not. Patches is wearing a pendant similar to Vicar Ameila so it might he was one of the previous Vicars before the current Amelia. Man...Patches becoming a Cleric is ironic considering he hate Clerics in the previous games.

 

[Gbraga]

I don't think the item an enemy drops is always indicative of what the monster is. Unless Patches is a Great One, since he drops Great One's Wisdom.

But Great One's Wisdom doesn't mean it belongs to a Great One, on the contrary, is one level ahead of Madman's Knowledge, it's someone who lost their mind with the eldritch truth but got much closer to the great ones before that. This can be seen by the item placement itself, and how close to the Brain of Mensis you can find them with those frenzy things attached to the body.

They're "fragments of the lost wisdom of the Great Ones", not a piece of actual great ones.

You'd have a point if Patches dropped "Great One Coldblood"

 

[Kazuhira]

I don't think the item an enemy drops is always indicative of what the monster is. Unless Patches is a Great One, since he drops Great One's Wisdom.

Well,that´s a little different because you can have the knowledge of the great ones and not being one of them.
Of course,this is only my opinion.

 

[ElFly]

I don't think the item an enemy drops is always indicative of what the monster is. Unless Patches is a Great One, since he drops Great One's Wisdom.

Ah, good point.

But I don't think the Kin denomination is very helpful -other than helping decide which elemental damage to equip-, because

-Rom was a human who ascended to a great one.

-The Celestials are humans who ascended to great ones.

Rom was granted eyes by some other Great One, and the Celestials are created with help of Willem's Third Cord....which may also have been used to create Rom?

So there's really no practical difference between Rom and the Celestial Emissary. The kin denomination is not really practical lorewise.

 

[Experien]

Ah, good point.

But I don't think the Kin denomination is very helpful -other than helping decide which elemental damage to equip-, because

-Rom was a human who ascended to a great one.

-The Celestials are humans who ascended to great ones.

Rom was granted eyes by some other Great One, and the Celestials are created with help of Willem's Third Cord....which may also have been used to create Rom?

So there's really no practical difference between Rom and the Celestial Emissary. The kin denomination is not really practical lorewise.

Amygdala created Rom, the Vacuous Spider, when he asked Amygdala to put a million eyes on his brain.

 

[Gbraga]

Oh, revisiting the Willem being senile discussion, ElFly reminded me of his cord, which is evidence for him being indeed senile. He had his cord removed, and that made him actually vacuous. His cord being removed by fake Iosefka is the only thing that could possibly explain her having it, imo.

Amygdala created Rom, the Vacuous Spider, when he asked Amygdala to put a million eyes on his brain.

wat

 

[Adaren]

Amygdala created Rom, the Vacuous Spider, when he asked Amygdala to put a million eyes on his brain.

#justbloodbornethings

 

[PirateKing]

Could they see with the eyes on/in their brain? Or was it to be able to see beyond?

Also i find it cool The Black Maiden from Demon's Souls also covers her eyes

 

[Soulhouf]

I was wondering. Aren't Micolash and Gherman actually very similar?
Micolash is the host of the Nightmare and Gherman is the host of the Dream. They both serve a Great One. They are both dead in the real world but continue to exist in the dream world.

 

[ElFly]

I thought that Kos, some say Kosm... was the one who ascended Rom. Although it may have been through the use of the cord. But I think the correct order of events is

-Kos, some say Kosm...ascends Rom by granting her eyes (and making her a spider).

-Willem removes the umbilical cord from Rom, because

"A great relic, also known as the Cord of the Eye. Every infant Great One has this precursor to the umbilical cord."

"Provost Willem sought the Cord in order to elevate his being and thoughts to those of a Great One, by lining his brain with eyes. The only choice, he knew, if man were to ever match Their greatness."

-Willem uses the cord to get more eyes, but gets tentacles too.

-the extra insight from the eyes make Willem senile.

-The church protects Byrgenwerth and Willem, and uses the cord to create the Celestial Kin.

Oh, revisiting the Willem being senile discussion, ElFly reminded me of his cord, which is evidence for him being indeed senile. He had his cord removed, and that made him actually vacuous. His cord being removed by fake Iosefka is the only thing that could possibly explain her having it, imo.

I think he went naturally catatonic.

 

[OniBarubary]

There's some weird discussions going on here about stuff we (by which I mean the greater Bloodborne community on the internet) already solidified such as which monsters are Great Ones and where the Healing Church got it's blood.

Rom is the only Human from Yharnam that ascended into an actual Great One that we know of, even if it made her "vacuous" she's still a Great One. It's entirely possible that Ebrietas is too but we don't have anything in the game really backing that up, it's just speculation about why she was left behind and them finding her in the Labyrinth. The Church definitely got the blood from her and Yharnam isn't a Great One just the mother of one.

The whole thing about Great Ones requiring surrogates seems to imply that every Great One is born from a human or once was one since Great Ones can't create more of them on their own. Yharnam can't be a Great One cause she gave birth to a Great One.

As for Oedon...well, that dude's got the magic voice cause he's capable of impregnating women without a body and just existing as sound which is...crazier if he's not even alive.

Also other than Oedon, all the Great Ones in the game are confirmed female. So that's interesting.