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Bloodborne Story and Lore Discussion Thread [Unmarked Spoilers]

F

Ferr986

Member
Shengar said:
Isn't it already wide accepted that the Doll was made by Gerhman and he try to breathe a live into it by using the Third Umblical Cord? It's only then instead of bringing it to live, he met Moon Presence, make deal to make the Doll alive in exchange of his own and become the Steward of the dream
Click to expand...

There's something that annoys me although it's probably just a bug. The doll in the real workshop keeps moving one of her fingers.

Veritigo_X said:
Those "amygdalas" aren't actually Great Ones. According to the guide they are called False Gods. The only Great One Amygdala is the one you fight.
Click to expand...

Ah, interesting. Didn't know that. I actually though the lesser ones would be like entities created by the big Amygdala, maybe herself cloning and controlling them all over Yarnham.
 
G

Gbraga

Member
Veritigo_X said:
Those "amygdalas" aren't actually Great Ones. According to the guide they are called False Gods. The only Great One Amygdala is the one you fight.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Any more info on them from the guide?

I wish there was a digital version of it, I just want to consult lore stuff and read the interview, don't care about having a physical collector item. :/

The theme would be nice as well, still using the ugly one that we got for free.

PirateKing said:
What I really want to know is what The Great Ones really are. Are they ruled by a supreme being? A one above all called Kos? Or are they all rivals? Why is there so many Amygdalas? Are they the lowest ranked members of the Great Ones?
Click to expand...

I don't think we'll ever get those answers, this is one of the intentionally vague things that are vague both because it fits the narrative of them being far beyond our understanding, and also because Miyazaki wants you to wonder that, even if you never get a definitive answer.

I feel like they might have rankings, as in Kosm and Oedon being more "advanced" beings, but I don't get the impression that they rule over each other, they all seem to work torwards their own goals, at least the ones we've encountered.

There must be some form of organization though, since Ebrietas is a left behind Great One. Someone had to leave her behind for her to get that title, I guess.
 
S

Shengar

Member
140.85 said:
Try to temper your expectations. It's from a guy that wrote a 1700-word essay on Reddit about who Lawrence is and he turned out to be flat wrong. (Even before Miyazaki's comments contradicted him, it was obvious he was wrong, IMO) He tends to get carried away. Not to mention being too verbose for his own good. Learn to edit, man!
Click to expand...

Ah I see, thanks for the reply. But lorehunting is very prone to wrongness so I accustomed to that. Also, Miyazaki make comment on what? Why I never heard of this.
 
L

Lucael

Member
PirateKing said:
What I really want to know is what The Great Ones really are. Are they ruled by a supreme being? A one above all called Kos? Or are they all rivals? Why is there so many Amygdalas? Are they the lowest ranked members of the Great Ones?
Click to expand...

Since they're supposed superior, or I think just "different", beings I think it's hard to explain them with human categories. And Kos Micolash is speaking about, seems to be the Cosmos. I think the only thing you can say about Great Ones is that they just exist.
 
V

Veritigo_X

Member
PirateKing said:
Huh. Does that mean they were made by other means in the image of the real one? If so, by whom?
Click to expand...

Maybe by Amygdala itself. Patches is able to order a False God to spare you and transport you to the Lecture Building. Patches is a seemingly high ranked servant to Amygdala, outranking the False Gods.

Gbraga said:
Interesting. Any more info on them from the guide?
Click to expand...

Sadly no. The guide just casually refers to them as False Gods like it was common knowledge.
 
1

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
Gbraga said:
Some people take the "open to interpretation" thing too literally and get carried away, they come up with random theories with no evidence whatsoever and treat it as truth.

Like the very weak link between the Cleric Beast and Ludwig. If that's enough evidence, than Gascoigne is the doll, the Small Hair Ornament can be given to the doll and it says it looks good on gray hair. omg cracked the case.
Click to expand...

Yeah. Miyazaki loves it when people use their imagination to try figure out these worlds. The games are designed to specifically encourage this. But there's a difference between filling in the holes and completely rewriting the world based on little to no evidence. But I get it - ever since people like ENB/Vaati came on the scene, people have been trying to be the next lore internet star and get those Reddit upvotes.
 
ISee

ISee

Member
Gbraga said:
That depends on what she decides to do next, I guess. If we're assuming she'll do what I would do in her place, I'd get the fuck out of Yharnam and never come back.
Click to expand...

I do not think it is up to you from this point on. Through the whole game you 'collected' and infused yourself with all different types of blood. I would even call the hunter addicted to blood and the power it grants you.
At the end, when you wake up and memorys begin to fate into darkness all that is left is your addiction and there is only one place, one city where your addiction can be satisfied: Yharnam.
So why leave it? And in the end you the hunter will turn and become another bloodletting monster. It may take years, maybe nearly a lifetime but it will happen.

In this ending the cycle was never broken. And all is going to play out again.

Just my opinion.
 
G

Gbraga

Member
ISee said:
I do not think it is up to you from this point on. Through the whole game you 'collected' and infused yourself with all different types of blood. I would even call the hunter addicted to blood and the power it grants you.
At the end, when you wake up and memorys begin to fate into darkness all that is left is your addiction and there is only one place, one city where your addiction can be satisfied: Yharnam.
So why leave it? And in the end you the hunter will turn and become another bloodletting monster. It may take years, maybe nearly a lifetime but it will happen.

In this ending the cycle was never broken. And all is going to play out again.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Poor dude I deleted after I got the Sunrise ending and can't remember his name :(
 
1

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
Shengar said:
Ah I see, thanks for the reply. But lorehunting is very prone to wrongness so I accustomed to that. Also, Miyazaki make comment on what? Why I never heard of this.
Click to expand...

There's an interview with him at the back of the official guide where he divulges some story details that were not in the game.
 
B

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Gbraga said:
Yeah, I agree, I can't see any evidence that makes it so the Amygdala is a lesser being either. Maybe Ebrietas is more important than those two, but I don't see how that makes them any less of great ones. Amygdala even drops a chalice too, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

I assume Ebrietas is more important as she is the one the Healing Church found and gained knowledge from. More "important" to humans and the lore due to that relationship.

Does the game say anything about humans making contact with any other Great Ones (besides Rom becoming a Great One himself)
 
S

Shengar

Member
140.85 said:
There's an interview with him at the back of the official guide where he divulges some story details that were not in the game.
Click to expand...

I just got to the part where the writer mention that interview.
I really need Bloodborne guidebook for the interview alone.
 
G

Gbraga

Member
Bronetta said:
I assume Ebrietas is more important as she is the one the Healing Church found and gained knowledge from. More "important" to humans and the lore due to that relationship.

Does the game say anything about humans making contact with any other Great Ones (besides Rom becoming a Great One himself)
Click to expand...

Yes, "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood."

Also, "this cord granted Mensis audience with Mergo, but resulted in the stillbirth of their brains."

I also assume the Choir wasn't funded the moment Laurence left Byrgenwerth, so they've been using blood for communion for a while before the Choir was granted audience with Ebrietas through the Isz chalice.

EDIT: Can the pthumerians be considered humans? If so, they were constantly in communion with the Great Ones, so much that they evolved into superhuman beings.
 
K

Kazuhira

Member
Speaking of the "sunrise" ending,It´s funny that you character wakes up with the clothes/armor you were using in the nightmare world.
I guess ENB was right about that,the nightmare was not dream but a different plane of existence.
 
P

PirateKing

Junior Member
A little off topic here but I can't help but think Cainhurst Castle is basically the sixth tombstone from Demon's Souls. Apart from Logarius' sword which looked exactly like False King Allant's sword, but also the files accessed from Demon's Souls regarding the sixth tombstone's snowy area.
 
S

Skii

Member
Lucael said:
I think there's no evidence that the Great Ones want to harm humanity. Scourge of the Beast is a human fault, too much use of Blood Healing was the cause of that.
Click to expand...

They want to harm humanity by pitting hunters against each other, manipulating the hunters and ultimately finding a surrogate for their newborn.

I also don't think the scourge of the beast is entirely the human's fault. It is possible that The Great Ones planted the Old Blood (which I assume is where the plague originated from). They knew it would start a plague that would place a huge selection pressure on humans who were either able to resist the scourge or who were strong enough to fight those who have turned into beast. This would allow them to find the best surrogates for their newborns.

Or the Moon Presence could've created the Old Blood in order to start a hunt which would ultimately create hunters that would be able to prevent the birth of a newborn from the other Great Ones.

There is some conjecture but it seems plausible.
 
L

LastGamer84

Member
ISee said:
I do not think it is up to you from this point on. Through the whole game you 'collected' and infused yourself with all different types of blood. I would even call the hunter addicted to blood and the power it grants you.
At the end, when you wake up and memorys begin to fate into darkness all that is left is your addiction and there is only one place, one city where your addiction can be satisfied: Yharnam.
So why leave it? And in the end you the hunter will turn and become another bloodletting monster. It may take years, maybe nearly a lifetime but it will happen.

In this ending the cycle was never broken. And all is going to play out again.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

A valid interpretation. For me personally the sunrise ending is about your character choosing to leave the nightmare behind. I don't personally believe the player character was addicted to Yharnam blood, they just needed it to cure whatever ailment brought them to the city. At the end you've done that, and are free to leave if you want to. For me the game sums it up pretty well: trying to dig further into the blood, the old ones, and the mystery will only result in madness or the loss of your own humanity. For your own sanity, your own sense of self, you should probably leave Yharnam behind.

My interpretation is that the game is somewhat of an allegory for how the community loves to dig into the nitty gritty of the series' details. You end up scratching your head and trying to wrap your mind around some of the more bizarre details. It may be simpler to just leave well enough alone and finish your own story rather than trying to comprehend the larger stakes.

Again, just my opinion.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
The Great Ones are probably not a unified group. The Moon Presence maintains the hunt where the entire goal is to murder a specific Great One. Ebrietas was "left behind" by the other Great Ones.
 
Alebrije

Alebrije

Gold Member
Still believe the Doll was created by the Old Ones , its a tool they provide to hunters in order to improve their stats and become the surrogate , she gives you power as exchange for echoes.

Hope DLC does sends us before Bloodorne events, maybe to the Puthimerian era.
 
P

PirateKing

Junior Member
Skii said:
They want to harm humanity by pitting hunters against each other, manipulating the hunters and ultimately finding a surrogate for their newborn.

I also don't think the scourge of the beast is entirely the human's fault. It is possible that The Great Ones planted the Old Blood (which I assume is where the plague originated from). They knew it would start a plague that would place a huge selection pressure on humans who were either able to resist the scourge or who were strong enough to fight those who have turned into beast. This would allow them to find the best surrogates for their newborns.

Or the Moon Presence could've created the Old Blood in order to start a hunt which would ultimately create hunters that would be able to prevent the birth of a newborn from the other Great Ones.

There is some conjecture but it seems plausible.
Click to expand...

I believe the Church extracted the blood from Ebrietas or was given by her. After all, she was the only Great One they came in contact with so whether or not it was a ploy by the Moon Presence or Ebrietas for the Scourge of Beast, there is no evidence.

I should mention that one of Ebrietas' move is her spitting blood at you.

Alebrije said:
Still believe the Doll was created by the Old Ones , its a tool they provide to hunters in order to improve their stats and become the surrogate , she gives you power as exchange for echoes.
Click to expand...

She mentions that she was made by humans in game. I don't think she was left by any Great one.
 
Cyborg

Cyborg

Member
I just platinumed this bad boy yesterday. I believe the bad endind is the true ending. I think the point of the game is to survive till next day and wake up. Im still reading the 90 page explanation of the story.

Some of them don't want to wake up, like Mikolash, he is sad when the Nightmare ends.

Edit: After 4 souls game the never ending cycle (trick) needs to stop.
 
Alebrije

Alebrije

Gold Member
Cyborg said:
I just platinumed this bad boy yesterday. I believe the bad endind is the true ending. I think the point of the game is to survive till next day and wake up. Im still reading the 90 page explanation of the story.

Some of them don't want to wake up, like Mikolash, he is sad when the Nightmare ends.
Click to expand...

I guess he is not aware he's dead on real life so oncenyou killed on nightmare he thinks he will awake.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
I've been pondering the similarities between Eileen and Mergo's Wet Nurse lately... seeing as Eileen used to dream (as did Djura, and probably others) I wonder if the Wet Nurse takes the form of the last hunter it was killed by. The Nurse is a Nightmare, perhaps it is created out of fear by either Gehrman or The Moon Presence. The hunt exists to destroy it, and with the Nightmare gone, Gehrman offers to "free" the hunter because their work is done. Perhaps he simply fears the hunter/playable character for gaining so much power and insight and threatening whatever plot the dream/hunt exists for?
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Cyborg said:
I just platinumed this bad boy yesterday. I believe the bad endind is the true ending. I think the point of the game is to survive till next day and wake up. Im still reading the 90 page explanation of the story.

Some of them don't want to wake up, like Mikolash, he is sad when the Nightmare ends.

Edit: After 4 souls game the never ending cycle (trick) needs to stop.
Click to expand...
How on earth could you think that's the goal?
 
S

Skii

Member
PirateKing said:
I believe the Church extracted the blood from Ebrietas or was given by her. After all, she was the only Great One they came in contact with so whether or not it was a ploy by the Moon Presence or Ebrietas for the Scourge of Beast, there is no evidence.

I should mention that one of Ebrietas' move is her spitting blood at you.
Click to expand...

Is it mentioned they extracted it from Ebrietas? I guess it kinda makes snese.

I'm having a real hard time understanding the Moon Presence's motives if it isn't to stage a hunt in order to kill the newborn of another Great One.

THEBONDIGTY said:
Is DLC a given for this game? A didn't play the souls series did they all get dlcs?
Click to expand...

It's basically a given. This is probably the most successful release of a Souls game to date. This game is a hit amongst the fans and they will want more. They will give it to us. It's easy money for them.
 
L

Lucael

Member
Skii said:
They want to harm humanity by pitting hunters against each other, manipulating the hunters and ultimately finding a surrogate for their newborn.
Click to expand...

How you can state this? "Want", "manipulate"... I think is uncorrect to apply this kind of intentions to something like Great Ones, as they appear in the game. In the Unseen Village a note say something like "stop the ritual of Mensis or everyone wil become beasts". So how you can question the morality, for example, of Moon Presence. Is it really doing something wrong manipulating you to the Nightmare?
 
F

Ferr986

Member
Kieli said:
It's not a bug..............

You get souls for staring at her fingers moving.
Click to expand...

Really? I didn't get any souls, or atleast I didn't notice.

Anyways, if it's real, it's something weird... and creepy, tbh. Wonder if it has any more of significance or is just for "fun".

Lucael said:
How you can state this? "Want", "manipulate"... I think is uncorrect to apply this kind of intentions to something like Great Ones, as they appear in the game. In the Unseen Village a note say something like "stop the ritual of Mensis or everyone wil become beasts". So how you can question the morality, for example, of Moon Presence. Is it really doing something wrong manipulating you to the Nightmare?
Click to expand...

I'll take enitities that manipulate humans (like Gerhman) and makes woman unwilly pregnant as, atleast, giant assholes.
 
P

PirateKing

Junior Member
Skii said:
Is it mentioned they extracted it from Ebrietas? I guess it kinda makes snese.

I'm having a real hard time understanding the Moon Presence's motives if it isn't to stage a hunt in order to kill the newborn of another Great One.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's mentioned anywhere but it would explain how her blood turned the Pthumerians and people of Yharnam turned into beasts by injecting the blood into themselves.
 
K

Kazuhira

Member
Skii said:
I'm having a real hard time understanding the Moon Presence's motives if it isn't to stage a hunt in order to kill the newborn of another Great One.
Click to expand...

It makes sense imo,each great one is so desperate for a child that they would plot against their own kind if it´s necessary.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Cyborg said:
What? Could you explain that?



Why not? :) I just choose to believe my objective was to find a way to wake up
Click to expand...
You can choose to believe a lot of dumb things - up to you. It's pretty clear on a variety levels that this is not the case. I'll leave it up to you to figure out why.

Alebrije said:
Still believe the Doll was created by the Old Ones , its a tool they provide to hunters in order to improve their stats and become the surrogate , she gives you power as exchange for echoes.

Hope DLC does sends us before Bloodorne events, maybe to the Puthimerian era.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
I think we can all agree Formless Oedon is an asshole, but the rest of the Great Ones are more ambiguous. The Brain of Mensis was called rotten and evil, but it was sympathetic to humans.
Kieli said:
It's not a bug..............

You get souls for staring at her fingers moving.
Click to expand...
Yep. You have to wait for forty minutes doing the Make Contact gesture while watching the Doll's fingers, and then you get a million souls.
Von Krukru said:
Just noticed Wilhelm has those tentacles growing out his back. I missed that detail during my 2 first playtrough, do they become visible when you have enough insight?

1_by_faust_nebel-d8s4nxq.jpg


2_by_faust_nebel-d8s4nxc.jpg
Click to expand...
Wow, this is really interesting.
 
A

Adaren

Member
Veritigo_X said:
Those "amygdalas" aren't actually Great Ones. According to the guide they are called False Gods. The only Great One Amygdala is the one you fight.
Click to expand...

Does the guide explicitly name the boss Amygdala as a Great One?

I tend to lean towards there being a fewer full-fledged Great Ones in the game than most people believe.
 
V

Veritigo_X

Member
Adaren said:
Does the guide explicitly name the boss Amygdala as a Great One?

I tend to lean towards there being a fewer full-fledged Great Ones in the game than most people believe.
Click to expand...

The trophy for beating Amygdala refers to it as a Great One, as it does for every Great One boss in the game.
 
P

PirateKing

Junior Member
Adaren said:
Does the guide explicitly name the boss Amygdala as a Great One?

I tend to lean towards there being a fewer full-fledged Great Ones in the game than most people believe.
Click to expand...

How many are there?

Ebrietas
Amygdala
Moon Presence
Wet Nurse
Mother Brain

That's it?
 
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