EvilKatarn
Member
Or the fact that the Oedon Tomb light is right below the place.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bloodborne: The Old Hunters |OT| Old Hunters. New Tricks, Bells & Whistles.
- Thread starter Robot Pants
- Start date
Or the fact that the Oedon Tomb light is right below the place.
Also, one thing I've noticed, is that there is a big cliffside to the left of the fishing hamlet, if you look straight out of the clocktower, or even on the ground. Above the cliff are these peaks, that look like buildingtops. They almost look like rock, but they look like they are manmade structures. Does anyone possibly know what that could be? Just a simple design From threw in, or is it indicative of a particular location? There are also some square holes in rows, almost like it is a giant fortress.
EvilKatarn
Member
Fishing Hamlet's location in the nightmare is obviously a nod to Iron Keep.
Except it makes sense because it's a nightmare.
Except it makes sense because it's a nightmare.
If you want to experience as it was intented and designed to be experienced you would start the whole game from the beginning. This is an expansion pack for the base game not a standalone add-on. Have not tried NG+ at all yet so can't really say how much levels you actually need to the DLC being manageable. And how it is impossible for you to not experience the DLC on NG? You can always start over the game and you get to lvl65 around 5-6 hours or faster depending on your skill.
You don't need to do any research in order to access the DLC. The game spells it really clearly how you access to Hunters Nightmare and I actually wish it was little bit more obtuse since being on media blackout didn't make it anymore mysterious or hard to figure out. Also buying something without doing any research of the contents I think is really stupid. This same as me complaining how something like Heavensward is not working without the base game.
The Xtortionist
Member
For the hardcore player, sure, though I can see a situation where someone who hasn't played the game for months has trouble remembering two lines of early-game dialogue and a missable rune name/location (not that Gehrman's line makes any sense - it should say ascend from Odeon Chapel, not ascend to Oedon Chapel...the character is already in Oedon Chapel when they begin ascending :l).
Good and fair point.
The biggest problem with accessing the DLC is that it's placed in a location that was previously something player learned to avoid after the first incident. Putting the entry to where players are used to experiencing an instant death sure is a great idea!
I'm on NG+ and it didn't take me all that much to get to the DLC though I was certainly underleveled at that point. I downed Cleric Beast, Gascoigne and Vicar Amelia a lot easier than I did when I first played the game but everything in the DLC is quite difficult compared to the main game so I wish I could've just stayed at NG.
Overall so far the DLC locations have been a bit of a letdown even though they certainly have a bunch of well placed monsters but the locations themselves have plenty of resuse of assets and IMO don't really gel together the same way they do in the main game. I can't help but feel that Research Hall is what Lecture Building (arguably the worst level in the main game) was supposed to be, it has enough sprawling goodness in it.
I'm on NG+ and it didn't take me all that much to get to the DLC though I was certainly underleveled at that point. I downed Cleric Beast, Gascoigne and Vicar Amelia a lot easier than I did when I first played the game but everything in the DLC is quite difficult compared to the main game so I wish I could've just stayed at NG.
Overall so far the DLC locations have been a bit of a letdown even though they certainly have a bunch of well placed monsters but the locations themselves have plenty of resuse of assets and IMO don't really gel together the same way they do in the main game. I can't help but feel that Research Hall is what Lecture Building (arguably the worst level in the main game) was supposed to be, it has enough sprawling goodness in it.
EvilKatarn
Member
You access the Nightmare Frontier exactly the same way so it's not unexpected.
GeordieMark
Member
Yeah, you only need to beat two bosses to get there, but if you do go straight to the DLC after beating those two bosses, you will get destroyed. I'm a huge Souls fans, but I wouldn't have an issue if FROM allowed players to either play the DLC as part of the main game, as it is now, or as a separate offshoot accessed through the main menu for people who either don't feel like running through the game again. Not everyone is an expert, and for some people it will take many hours to be in a position to tackle the DLC.
I've had to start the game again to have a run at the DLC, and yeah, I'm getting through everything really quickly, but it will still be hours before I am leveled enough to give the DLC a proper shot. Its kind of frustrating to have to play through most of the game again to get to, even though I'm enjoying it.
As someone who is getting his ass handed to him by a boss for the last few days, I'm not sure I should qualify as "the hardcore player", and yet it was very clear to me.
But sure, I can see that situation as well. But that's just a consequence of a game that doesn't give you a blinking point in your mini map to follow. The only way to give you directions is telling you where to go. It's the exact same as the Tonsil Stone item description, to get into Nightmare Frontier earlier.
If someone tells me to go somewhere in a random AAA game, I don't need to remember shit, because I can just follow the dotted line, but that's not how Souls work.
Are you really, honestly completely 100% unaware of the fact some people don't want to spend up to 10 hours replaying a game they already played to get to the new content they actually want to play (edit, because I'm already being misunderstood: Just as the poster above I'm counting the hours to play to the ending in NG to be leveled up for the DLC. I would likely not be able to do that in 5-6 hours)? I understand that it is no problem for you. That is cool. What I am saying and what Griffin and Patrick are saying is: We would really enjoy the DLC but do not enjoy going through the game a second, third or fourth time and would like an option to start playing the new content without having to do so. Is that so unbelievable to you?
Again: Because of this I had to play the DLC in NG++ and it actually made it less enjoyable for me. So my options were:
1.) Play 1 or 2 hours to get to the DLC in NG++ and enjoy the DLC less than I would have in NG
2.) Start an entirely new game I don't actually want to go through now and spend hours not enjoying myself too much to get to the part i would enjoy
Both of these options involve me lessening my enjoyment of the game. Why is it so completely unbelievable for some people why both of this options are less than ideal to me and quite a few others?
TheBlackMarvel
Member
I love how the hour count just keeps rising...
This is not me playing to Amelia but instead starting a completely new game andbasically playing through the whole game until the ending to be levelled up for the DLC in NG.
It's also obviously not the main point of my argument.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
You really don't need to go that far though. Hell, I'd argue it's easy enough to do from Amelia, if that's what you want. Fight the enemies rather than run to the first boss of the DLC and you'll level up in no time at all.
Would you be locked out of the main game if you picked the 'play only the DLC'? There are many problems when implementing something like that. I understand why someone would like option like that but it is really hard to implement.
No I understand that some people don't have time for replaying games (you don't need to spend nearly that much amount of time to get to DLC with decent levels). What I don't understand is the complaints on how the DLC is hard to get to. And to be honest I really like how it is integrated to be part of the game and not some 'select new chapter here' button. I would also like to hear how you would implement it.
edit.
Saw your edit and I had great time going through the DLC on NG++ and if you were on NG at 65 you would have not enjoyed it more as it is really hard.
The Xtortionist
Member
After four playthroughs, 8-10 hours is about what it takes me to kill every boss and grab 90+% of the items in the vanilla game, which is what I would recommend players to do before starting the DLC on a fresh character (ignoring suiciding for a new weapon or two).
I also don't think advising players to just kill Gascoigne and Amelia in NG+ is very useful. The average player will be at a disadvantage at around level 80 for the DLC.
C'mon nobody cried at Dark Souls 2 and Dark Souls DLC... and they were way way worst to get into... and no they weren't easier on NG+ than this Bloodborne DLC.
If you played through the game at least once you won't need more than 3-4 hours (which is still very slow, I need 52 minutes and it can be even faster than this) to get to the DLC with reasonable weapon and level. If you need longer than you don't know all the shortcuts and everything or haven't realized that killing every enemey does do shit for you. You can easily skip almost every enemy and just level with the boss echoes to the needed level. You won't invest that time? Then skip the DLC. Easy.
Phoenix944
Member
It's not clear enough... There should be a NPC in the Hunter's Dream. And when you log in, he says something like "Thank you for buying BLOODBORNE THE OLD HUNTERS DLC, grab my hand for I will lead you straight to the new area. And here, 5billion blood echoes because the first boss is a pain";
This is the bare minimum...
Coldblood Dew DLC codes bundled with MtnDew
Just checked on one of my characters. Didn't get any cutscene and I have the skull and at the end of the game.
Gormless Noodle
Member
Don't even joke about that shit. Reminds me of the Pokemon special edition thing in the US where you got extra pots or some shit. It happens and it´s terrifyingly awful
Weird... So it was a bug then.
Could it be connected to the fact that
I killed Gehrman and used a Bold Hunter's Mark against Moon Presence to just leave it alive to finish after the DLC? This probably isn't an intended setup to have the game at, so it makes sense that the game would go a bit crazy in such state, I guess.
Don't even joke about that shit. Reminds me of the Pokemon special edition thing in the US where you got extra pots or some shit. It happens and it´s terrifyingly awful
WHAT, for Pokémon? Really? lmao
Publishers pls
Gormless Noodle
Member
I also stopped before
Moon Presence
Ludwig
And yeah yeah, here it is http://www.engadget.com/2014/10/27/pokemon-omega-alpha-dual-pack-has-healing-powers/ Dual pack then I guess, not really special edition. But still. BEST BUY EXCLUSIVE BABY.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
Weirdly, I disagree with this - the re-use of assets felt deliberate and meaningful, and made me think about the nature of the game.
NOT HEAVY SPOILERS BELOW, BUT OBVIOUSLY REFERS TO MAIN GAME AND VERY FIRST PART OF DLC, SO NOT SPOILER TAGGING AS IT'S LIKELY STUFF THAT MOST PEOPLE IN HERE KNOW.
It reinforced that everything - be it the town, the church, the monuments, were literally and metaphorically built upon a river of blood. That's where everything started, the consumption of blood and corruption it caused.
The fact that the first thing you see is a hunter walking is (IMO) supposed to be a reflection of sorts of your role in the game and how you fit into the multi-layered story surrounding the town.
Ordinarily I'd have not written the above, but two things made me do so - firstly that Bloodborne was my first dalliance proper with a From title, and I learned so much about the imagery and how it's utilised to tell the story that I feel it must be deliberate.
Secondly, my partner came in whilst I was in the plaza right at the start of the game, and she noticed that the beasts backed off of me, covering their face. I explained that they're afraid of fire, and they do that in another section of the original game (Old Yarnham), but then I noticed I didn't have a fire weapon equipped. She also asked why the hunters were attacking me and saying "cursed beast" when I was clearly human, and we talked about the nature of the "blood drunk" hunter, and how it's clear that hunters corrupted by the blood fail to see the difference, or to see the people who became the beasts.
Those two very facts are thrown at you right in the first act of the DLC - you're hunting people and beasts indiscriminately through a town entirely built upon the spilling/letting of blood.
Anyway, enough rambling - bored on my lunch hour at work...
Damn, at least it wasn't in your first fight against him, was it? That would suck.
It's also a glitch that can completely change the course of speedruns, so it really needs to be fixed asap.
You're calling my argument terrible? This argument is ridiculous, you could argue like this for any area in the game...
"Oh, I paid for Bloodborne, I wish I could just go straight to the last area
but the game makes me want to level up and play the levels before""I wish I could skip ahead in this book to the second to last page and find out what happened but it doesn't make any sense then
" What i don't understand about people complaining "Ugh cant access DLC from menu option" or "I beat the game so I'm in NG+ don't want run through content i played already to do the DLC here and its too hard!" Is that ALL Souls DLC to day have required you to hit a certain point in game to be able to access it and there has never been an option to start from the menu or to get an overleveled character at the beginning.
DS1 required you to have the Lordvessel or w.e. and access to the dukes archives, which is basically 2/3's into the game. DS2 Vanilla gave you the DLC Key Items immediately after purchase sure but you still had to have access to the rooms in which to use the key, which were all quite a bit into the game as well. DS2 Scholar of the First Sin required access to mid game areas for the DLC Key Items and again, you needed access to the rooms as well.
None of this has been a new thing and everyone already speculated that we needed to probably be at either Rom or Vicar Amelia for the DLC to begin with and we aren't even "Journalists" who should already be in the know in advance. sounds like poor excuses to me
DS1 required you to have the Lordvessel or w.e. and access to the dukes archives, which is basically 2/3's into the game. DS2 Vanilla gave you the DLC Key Items immediately after purchase sure but you still had to have access to the rooms in which to use the key, which were all quite a bit into the game as well. DS2 Scholar of the First Sin required access to mid game areas for the DLC Key Items and again, you needed access to the rooms as well.
None of this has been a new thing and everyone already speculated that we needed to probably be at either Rom or Vicar Amelia for the DLC to begin with and we aren't even "Journalists" who should already be in the know in advance. sounds like poor excuses to me
Gormless Noodle
Member
Lol i wish Lwould do that.aurence
I actually find his second form easier than the first. But that's cus I'm a cheesy bastard and just Bowblade him down while kiting him from one end of the room to the next
No no never happened when I solo'd him the first 2 runs, it was only in co-op weirdly enough. And only when there were 2 partners. You get "prey slaughtered" just before the next cutscene starts. I'm unsure if this requires 2 co-op partners of if you can replicate it with just one or even by yourself. But seeing as he's the only boss in the game with 2 cutscenes, that probably is what does it somehow.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
I actually find his second form easier than the first. But that's cus I'm a cheesy bastard and just Bowblade him down while kiting him from one end of the room to the next
I may have to give that a try, in my world he just goes hyper agressive and I die trapped between a wall and an eternal sea of lava and ground pounds.
Or he gets an ambiguous hit that one-shots me just before I kill him.
Gormless Noodle
Member
With kiting him in that form, he does have this quite speedy hand walk he does at some points. The key there is to kite him to the end of the room to sort of one corner there and then do a series of wide dodges around him so the one shot swipe doesn't get to you no matter what. You CAN dodge through the swipe though if you time it properly. It has a bit of a wind up so with some practice you can get through it safely, but it's a one shot so that's really risky of course.
Akiyama_AE
Member
damn the servers not up yet really wanted to play with others today...
The ironic thing for me, reading through the twitter thread about this, was that his major complaint was that he spent the money without knowing how to access the DLC. Someone pointed out the PS Blog had published the info first, and his point became that expecting someone to catch up on these things via there is unreasonable - which could be a fair point.
However, he asked where else he could have found the information prior to purchasing, and someone pointed out that it was available in handy article form on...
...Polygon.com
The site his complaint article was published on. That's almost too much irony for me to take.
Honestly, about the DLC issue, it's not that hard to understand. All of the Souls DLC up to this point has been located somewhere midway or late in the game. That's telltale sign number one. Number two is that Sony published instructions on how to get to, and what level you should be at for the DLC. And really, if you want to have a certain experience, like the devs intended, the DLC was crafted so that it was accessible midway through the game, but at the same time be challenging enough for people who have already gotten to the end of the game.
Honestly, in this situation, From Software had to choose which fans to please and which to piss off. If they made it completely detached from the main game, then there would be no continuity, no semblance into the game as a whole. If they want it to be accessible in game, and actually be worthy of people's attention and money, they needed to do it in such a way that it would still be relevant to people who have played already.
We have had all the information and signs for how to interact with the DLC, it is simply ignorance of those journalists which is to blame for purchasing an expansion to a game without knowing what it will take to access it. Doubly so for journalists, who are supposed to be learned in the aspect of games and what they are getting into.
This is just my opinion about the situation, anyway.
Honestly, in this situation, From Software had to choose which fans to please and which to piss off. If they made it completely detached from the main game, then there would be no continuity, no semblance into the game as a whole. If they want it to be accessible in game, and actually be worthy of people's attention and money, they needed to do it in such a way that it would still be relevant to people who have played already.
We have had all the information and signs for how to interact with the DLC, it is simply ignorance of those journalists which is to blame for purchasing an expansion to a game without knowing what it will take to access it. Doubly so for journalists, who are supposed to be learned in the aspect of games and what they are getting into.
This is just my opinion about the situation, anyway.
StaffyManasse
Member
I must say.
After beating both 2nd(?) boss
and 3rd(?) boss
both on the first try I was on an all time blood high, but the next one,
really brought me back to earth.
Halp.
(Not really asking for help right now, since I'm not playing at the moment and the servers seem down anyway.)
After beating both 2nd(?) boss
Living Failures
Lady Maria
Orphan of Kos
Halp.
(Not really asking for help right now, since I'm not playing at the moment and the servers seem down anyway.)
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. There's an unskippable message that tells you exactly where you need to go and what you need to do.And lo and behold, it' actually the same mechanic you used to access another area in the base game.If you don't understand the message, there are five hundred articles on the internet that tells you were to go
But really, if you lack the basic comprehension of the game to understand it yourself, if you are bothered by fact that you may have to replay two hours at most to reach that point and the difficulty of a NG+ scares you so much (despite the DLC being balanced for a NG+ character mostly)...I'm not sure why you are bothering with the DLC at all. And if you are a game journalist, I don't want to sound mean but..it's your fucking job, stop whining like a child.
I think you should be around 80 when you are finishing Bloodborne for the first time. You get bunch of echoes from beating the game so that you can get up to around 85 easily. Kill two bosses and you get enough to be around 90. I just accessed the DLC on NG+ at 95 and it is manageable. You also get bunch of echoes if you explore the area so that you can easily be around 100 and over when you hit the first boss which actually is perfectly fine for it. Nothing seems to kill you in one hit around that level.
Been fighting
all afternoon.
I have him figured out I'll get him tomorrow. Been getting him close to death.
Just that stompy stompy shit he does. God damn. Rolling seems better than quickstep to avoid it though.
Other wise I've managed to figure out which attack to bait and not to attack after.
Baiting his lava attack is too slow and makes him more likely to stomp about.
Laurence
I have him figured out I'll get him tomorrow. Been getting him close to death.
Just that stompy stompy shit he does. God damn. Rolling seems better than quickstep to avoid it though.
Other wise I've managed to figure out which attack to bait and not to attack after.
Baiting his lava attack is too slow and makes him more likely to stomp about.
Do you have Simon's Bowblade? You can run to the other side and shoot while you wait for his lava attack.
Wow. I was just messing around in Fishing Hamlet, and then I realised there is still an item up high in a building that I have not gotten yet. After some looking around, I found that you can go up around the cliff, and then get the
set and a Blood Chunk. Not only that, but unlock at shortcut ladder. Really interesting. You can now bypass the well and all those monsters there in the center of the map.
I know this is probably common knowledge but is kind of hidden, and easily overlooked because you probably just want to run past that big shark thing.
Harrowed Hunter
I know this is probably common knowledge but is kind of hidden, and easily overlooked because you probably just want to run past that big shark thing.
And here I was thinking that the job of a games journalist is analyzing and making an argument for why you do or do not like certain parts of a game instead of simply playing it and shutting up about anything you think could have been better.
Your whole post is very condescending. I made my argument in my last few posts and don't have much to add to that, partly because the counter-argument seems to boil down to "Well, maybe you suck too much!" but I would like to add that I'm a little disappointed in this thread's responses because any argument on why someone might dislike certain ways to access the game are not met with counter-arguments and discussion, but instead with ridicule and condenscension. That sucks.
comshoplesce
Member
I bought Bloodborne Complete Edition from Canadian PSN digitally. Earlier I have been playing with EU/UK retail versions etc....managed to platinum the game etc...started NG+...
all this saves i have on my hdd and ps+ will come in handy for this new digitally bought canadian complete version?
Or am I screwed and will need to start over?
Thanks
all this saves i have on my hdd and ps+ will come in handy for this new digitally bought canadian complete version?
Or am I screwed and will need to start over?
Thanks
theechrisfox
Member
I wish beckoning was faster. I had about 4 hours to play last night and only had about 10 good attempts at L.
The one thing I find weird about the people who complain about being kicked into NG+ is that apparently they knew enough about SoulsBorne to know that there is an NG+ but not enough to know that outside of one game in the series it happens automatically.
Not a criticism of those people, btw, just an interesting bit of information about what about these games has propagated and what hasn't.
Honestly, when these games were a niche thing just for the hardcore, having the DLC be entirely smoothly integrated into the game, with no option than to get back to that part of the game, felt right; but now that they are million sellers, I'd say it's worth at least making the NG+ jump optional or saving to a new file as suggested earlier in this thread. I made save file back ups at certain points (mainly right at the end of NG); this is one area where I feel sympathy for people wanting some accommodation.
I have no problem with it as is but I'm obsessed.
One of them is gold, the all weapons, the rest are bronze, so it adds up funny.
Not a criticism of those people, btw, just an interesting bit of information about what about these games has propagated and what hasn't.
Honestly, when these games were a niche thing just for the hardcore, having the DLC be entirely smoothly integrated into the game, with no option than to get back to that part of the game, felt right; but now that they are million sellers, I'd say it's worth at least making the NG+ jump optional or saving to a new file as suggested earlier in this thread. I made save file back ups at certain points (mainly right at the end of NG); this is one area where I feel sympathy for people wanting some accommodation.
I have no problem with it as is but I'm obsessed.
One of them is gold, the all weapons, the rest are bronze, so it adds up funny.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Well, I finally reached the monsters in the well.
People weren't kidding. I can land a hit with the Shaman Bone Blade, followed by getting killed immediately.
People weren't kidding. I can land a hit with the Shaman Bone Blade, followed by getting killed immediately.
I agree. Level can surge very quickly once you start doing later Chalices or NG+. Hell, even the second DLC area makes it rain Echoes.
Also, all levels are not equal. There are a lot of people on NG+ that have, like, 25 Vitality. There are six stats in the game, but a point in vitality is worth substantially more than points in the others.
Also, at some point, level matters less and Gems and Upgrades become way more prominent.