Thats not a challenge. NG+7 with that would be more his style if he was using a functional weapon.
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Bloodborne: The Old Hunters |OT| Old Hunters. New Tricks, Bells & Whistles.
- Thread starter Robot Pants
- Start date
Thats not a challenge. NG+7 with that would be more his style if he was using a functional weapon.
I was just watching him aimlessly try and figure it out, he hadn't gotten there yet (as of his most recent YT upload). Man, that'll be a good playthrough.
Seriously though, I'm still shocked at the amount of weapons in this dlc, it's staggering.
I've been pumping Insight into shards & twin shards just so I can get them all to a reasonable level to try them all out. Pretty comfortable with the Whirligig (carried me through the dlc), Moonlight Greatsword is fantastic, I love that it uses bullets, otherwise I normally would barely touch the things (unless it's a hunter or another extremely easily parried enemy type). Bowblade has so much potential, got it to +9, haven't got great gems on it though, maybe on NG+1 I'll try that one out, does bone marrow ash work on it? I'm just curious how powerful those arrow shots can get.
I used to think his wombo combos were ridiculous but then I learned that he has shitty tracking and dodging in the correct direction will give me an opening to attack. He can be learned.
Actually, if you play the fight enough and study his hitboxes, they are actually pretty clearly defined, and have certain weaknesses and strengths. His first phase especially is pretty easy to predict. The second phase is more chaotic, but still has similar weaknesses. There are no camera issues I can think of, other than the fact that he jumps out of your lock on sometimes, but other bosses do that. The key is just to react quickly.
I've also rarely been one hit-KO'd by him unless I was co oping with someone where my HP is less than normal. Even the Thunder bolt didn't kill me in one hit, as long as I was wearing proper gear.
Personally I disagree with you, I feel it is a really tight fight, and shows high quality boss design.
Tough one.
The Old Hunters has some of the best bosses in the series and a shit ton of new weapons and content. AoTA has my favorite boss in the whole series (Manus). I don't know.
AlphaDragoon
Member
The new gear looks nice and all, but I still can't part ways with my Hunter Garb
Hunter Garb without the cape (as you have there) is ultimate baller status armor. It's top 3 for me out of any of the Souls games or BB. Maria's Hunter Garb is up there too, it's almost some Alucard gear.
I think the Dark Souls games are on the whole better than Bloodborne (I put BB over Demon's though), but The Old Hunters slaps Artorias of the Abyss for me.
Krusenstern
Banned
Almost can't make a decision. If we go by numbers then TOH appears a bit meatier than AotA:
- more bosses
- more weapons
- more gear
- adds a new covenant (part of the patch, I know but still)
What's on par are the number of areas and npcs in both expansions.
Then comes other stuff that's not directly comparable to Dark Souls, like new oaths and tools which bring variety into gameplay.
Both expansions add bosses and enemies that are far tougher than the ones you find in the respective main games.
Overall I think TOH is a bit better than AotA. TOH introduces two of the best areas in the game, Fishing Hamlet and especially Research Hall is really cool from a map design perspective.
Though from a lore and story standpoint AotA has had a deeper impact on me then TOH. But that's maybe because I don't quite understand the world in TOH yet.
Both expansions are phenomenal and greatly enhance the quality of the entire game.
HalfBakedProphet
Member
they're both excellent
Shin Kojima
Banned
I loved Artorias but I think Old Hunters is slightly better. It was great from beginning to end, well-paced and decently challenging. One boss is just okay but not terrible, the others bosses are all great. The new weapons are plentiful and cool.
AlphaDragoon
Member
I think the DS2 DLC is better than Artorias of the Abyss, honestly. Those are some of the best maps in Soulsborne period IMO.
I love them both, but TOH edges out a win overall for me. You can't go wrong with playing either one though.
EvilKatarn
Member
The Old Hunters' first playthrough actually took me way longer than AotA and both add incredible weapons and bosses.
Artorias, Manus and Kalameet edge out
Ludwig, Maria and Orphan
There's no question in level design. Oolacile City was the only good area in AotA while all three in The Old Hunters are grand.
It's hard to say so soon after the DLC came out, but at the moment I'm definitely more psyched over The Old Hunters.
EvilKatarn
Member
It's not.
usp84
Member
Well yes it is but the download was already at 9,2 GB when i saw it so i have no idea what it did really
I can't really compare Artorias dlc and Old Hunters. Been thinking about it, and I really enjoyed this content, it's bigger than AotA overall, but that first Dark Souls content left a much stronger impression with me, I believe. I really liked all the areas, the town sinking into the abyss, Artorias and Manus boss fights were really memorable. Just like how Demon's Souls leaves the strongest first impression when I played it, I think I'll always fondly remember the first one since it set my expectations for the rest.
I think Old Hunters is better in terms of what it offers both in content in addition to the main game, as well as it's presentation and story. AotA was great but was short lived for me (with the main high point being the fight against artorias itself) Everything before was a bit eeeeh. And I find that Oolacile, while cool visually had less of an impact on the world as a whole.
OH just has so much great stuff. I see a few people don't like some of the bosses like OoK or Living failures. I personally liked Living failures like i like micolash: Fights who are mostly tone-setters and a prelude to a bigger one (in this case, lady maria STRAIGHT after). Plus it's a great tie-in to the celestial emissary fights. And OoK was hectic in it's second phase but once you actually calm down and take your time observing it it's a really fun fight. And the lady maria fight is just freaking awesome (if not a bit on the easier side). Ludwig is just insane as well. Add that to the overall level design and stuff added which i just find stronger than AotA.
I'd say in terms of pure content, the DS2 DLC wins a bit as they offered vastly different landscapes to the base game and a bunch of new things. Although I didn't really ike the way they were tied in. They felt so disconnected and by the point of Brume Tower or Eleum Loyce I kinda stopped caring about the overall world narrative. It had some really good fights though like Brume Knight, the king or Alonne. It kinda saved the base game for me on that front
OH just has so much great stuff. I see a few people don't like some of the bosses like OoK or Living failures. I personally liked Living failures like i like micolash: Fights who are mostly tone-setters and a prelude to a bigger one (in this case, lady maria STRAIGHT after). Plus it's a great tie-in to the celestial emissary fights. And OoK was hectic in it's second phase but once you actually calm down and take your time observing it it's a really fun fight. And the lady maria fight is just freaking awesome (if not a bit on the easier side). Ludwig is just insane as well. Add that to the overall level design and stuff added which i just find stronger than AotA.
I'd say in terms of pure content, the DS2 DLC wins a bit as they offered vastly different landscapes to the base game and a bunch of new things. Although I didn't really ike the way they were tied in. They felt so disconnected and by the point of Brume Tower or Eleum Loyce I kinda stopped caring about the overall world narrative. It had some really good fights though like Brume Knight, the king or Alonne. It kinda saved the base game for me on that front
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
Finally got to jump into this today, NG+ since I like completing everything with my first character first. Like the level design so far even though it seems to be copying small junks of the base game. The amount of hunters is awesome, and how quickly I'm finding new weapons is a treat. Died to gatling gun guy twice before I had to go. Looking forward to the bosses, especially with the overwhelming positive reactions everyone has been having to them so far.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Absolute biggest problem in the DLC is that it throws a ton of STR weapons right at the start (Pizzacutter, Amygdala Arm, Beast Cutter, Boom Hammer) while being really stingy on the other builds. Like, there is only one Bloodtinge trick weapon and you get that at the end pretty much. I definately would have shuffled some of them around.
I'm actually completely okay with this. Because I don't really think any of the weapons are going to come into their own until a second playthrough on NG+ -- and neither are ones more specialized builds.
Considering I basically played Bloodborne from the start up to Gehrman, then played through the dlc. I've now picked up every item I can on that first run, and can select from any of them for the second. Bloodborne's main game already favors Strength, and to a lesser extent Skill, Bloodtinge and Arcane builds a highly specialised, and usually can't fully develop until heavily in the late game. At least that's what i've found, especially in comparison to how past Souls games have handled it.
Unrelated -- I really liking Living Failures, it's a fine fight, albeit not an incredibly challenging one. But above all, it has considerable lore implications, capping off the previous area nicely, and is visually spectacular, some of the stuff in that fight is breathtaking, plus that score.
Hey L!aurence, the first Vicar
That's me. And I thought Abrietas was difficult. It's my first time using coop for a boss in the game because I can't do it on my own. Did everything on NG+.
Four or five tries with a coop partner, got to second phase once. It's not a hard boss it's just broken somehow.
/salthood.
I honestly wish the Souls games would let you carry over unleveled weapons and gear for any NG run, as it would encourage me to use more weapons on replays. By the time I get certain weapons late in the game, I don't really ever use them other than to try out their moveset, since it will take a while to level them up properly and I'm more likely to lean back on what I started with and leveled all the way to +10. Probably not a good decision for balance, but I'd love to be able to experiment from the start, strictly PvE speaking.
A special video for episode 7, the 1st DLC boss, Pimmsy vs.
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s047zCIT4g
Probably the most interesting fight from Pimmsy so far, having
really helps, and the music is the best boss theme since Father Gascoigne IMO.
We've left exploring the
for now until we progress a bit further in the story, since I have a feeling she'll need to upgrade the weapons she's using now a lot more for it.
Ludwig the Accursed
Probably the most interesting fight from Pimmsy so far, having
Valtr
We've left exploring the
Research Hall
Marty-esque
Member
Were they
harvesting blood from the celestial emissaries too? Or did the blood come only from Ebrietas? What was the whole reason for turning people into celestial emissaries? Just to get closer to the great ones?
The Jackdog
Member
really, really dig fighting the
.
hunters all over the place
I dunno man, the level design of DS2 DLC is stellar. Purely level design wise they're the best of the Soulsborne DLCs IMO. Is just that Artorias and Old Hunters have better bosses and atmosphere.
I think I'll put Artorias first, mainly because it doesnt have
Laurence
The music in the DLC has been amazing. My favorite in a game this year I think.
I don't think it is a question of which is better or worse for me. All I can say is I enjoyed TOH more than AotA. I found the weapons more interesting, bosses quite a bit more interesting and the nightmare setting just felt right. That's not to say I didn't enjoy AotA, I think they're both great DLC's, but so far I've had more fun with TOH (then again, I've enjoyed BB more on the whole as well).
j0hnny_385
Member
Nvm
Imperfected
Member
I think the Yharnam part of Hunter's Nightmare may be my least favorite area in the entire game.
Almost completely linear, yet really poor use of shortcuts and dubious lantern placement, enemy allocations have that slapshod DS2 "just throw more of them down and it'll probably be good" feel, and the entire area has the "Yahar'gul problem" that it's optimally experienced by just running through ignoring absolutely everything to the greatest extent possible. The map rarely if ever makes legitimately good use of vertical space, which is bizarre since most of it is based off the template of a map that does so excellently.
The fact the boss is kind of garbage doesn't help. Particularly since he seemed like he could have been great if not for a few really poor design decisions. (Did someone really think the ceiling-drop thing was going to be a good idea in a fight where you already spend half of it wrestling with dubious camera control and a big, lumpy mass of an enemy...?)
The tone doesn't work for me, either. At best I'd call it an Oolacile Township homage, and at worst it's just the least interesting elements of Central Yharnam and Nightmare Frontier stitched together awkwardly with all the seams showing as clear as day.
The only nice thing I really have to say is that the feeling of deja vu going through the nightmare variants of Cathedral Ward/Central Yharnam areas is sometimes kind of neat.
Hoping the rest of the DLC is of a much higher quality than this, but I don't really have time to continue at the moment.
Almost completely linear, yet really poor use of shortcuts and dubious lantern placement, enemy allocations have that slapshod DS2 "just throw more of them down and it'll probably be good" feel, and the entire area has the "Yahar'gul problem" that it's optimally experienced by just running through ignoring absolutely everything to the greatest extent possible. The map rarely if ever makes legitimately good use of vertical space, which is bizarre since most of it is based off the template of a map that does so excellently.
The fact the boss is kind of garbage doesn't help. Particularly since he seemed like he could have been great if not for a few really poor design decisions. (Did someone really think the ceiling-drop thing was going to be a good idea in a fight where you already spend half of it wrestling with dubious camera control and a big, lumpy mass of an enemy...?)
The tone doesn't work for me, either. At best I'd call it an Oolacile Township homage, and at worst it's just the least interesting elements of Central Yharnam and Nightmare Frontier stitched together awkwardly with all the seams showing as clear as day.
The only nice thing I really have to say is that the feeling of deja vu going through the nightmare variants of Cathedral Ward/Central Yharnam areas is sometimes kind of neat.
Hoping the rest of the DLC is of a much higher quality than this, but I don't really have time to continue at the moment.
Everything else is pretty much entirely original content. The later sections are reminiscent of other sections in the other game, and reuse assets in a broader sense, but the other two areas aren't literal remixes like the first area. I thought that was kind of the point, though, I think Vaati said it best when he said it was like someones poor recollection of Yharnam, like someone assembled it from memory, even though I don't think that makes complete sense considering the host.
Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
I made it to the Living Failures and manage to get their health to 50% before dying.
Did you just say Ludwig is garbage? Oh boy thats a new one.
Enemy allocation feels pretty much DaS2 and there are some traps that feel really unfair but all in all I though it was still pretty great and not infurating at all.
The enemy placement is definitely not DS2, its standard Souls DLC enemy placement. Do you not remember the packs of scarecrows backed by one of two stone giants or trying to get past the fucking dark orb bloatheads in Souls 1?
Also clearly someone doesnt appreciate creating context through visuals and level design. And complaining about Ludwig? Just sprint and he'll never fall on you. Maybe figure the boss out before saying its poorly designed. You'll not expose yourself then.
Also clearly someone doesnt appreciate creating context through visuals and level design. And complaining about Ludwig? Just sprint and he'll never fall on you. Maybe figure the boss out before saying its poorly designed. You'll not expose yourself then.
I never really noticed it during the fight, but the music that plays in
second phase is amazing.
Maybe even better than
imo.
Starts @ 4:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rej1lAt5VRU
Laurence's
Maybe even better than
Ludwig's
Starts @ 4:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rej1lAt5VRU
HORRORSHØW
Member
take it slow
look up when they start praying for meteors and use the sunflower in the middle of the area to block it
I actually really enjoy the recycled part. Granted, still didn't explore the Research Hall to compare it to, but I adore the Hunter's Nightmare. I really like the enemy placement too, didn't have an issue with that. Horse but Hole is most definitely one of my favorite bosses in the series now.
I really really love it. I was worried about not liking it because of reused stuff, but I'm having a blast. I'm getting a lot of use out of the monocle, just looking at everything in detail, piecing things together. Love it, love it, love it.
The level design is great, the enemies are great, the bosses, well, of the two I fought, one is amazing, but Artorias of the Abyss had a not that good boss fight right when you enter it as well, so it's all good.
That moment when you climb the thingie, the camera pulls back a little
Not to mention how it addresses some main issues with the base game, like lack of weapons in general, but more importantly lack of weapons you can just pick up, and weapons you can get early into the game. The amount of stuff you can just pick up without having to buy after getting the badge is insane, and will make new characters a lot more interesting, with runs to get the weapons being a fairly common thing.
Just wish it had something PVP related, an Oath, arena or at least bell maidens by default like the other Nightmare areas. Maybe they thought that would make it too hard? I don't know.
Which traps did you think were unfair?
I really really love it. I was worried about not liking it because of reused stuff, but I'm having a blast. I'm getting a lot of use out of the monocle, just looking at everything in detail, piecing things together. Love it, love it, love it.
The level design is great, the enemies are great, the bosses, well, of the two I fought, one is amazing, but Artorias of the Abyss had a not that good boss fight right when you enter it as well, so it's all good.
That moment when you climb the thingie, the camera pulls back a little
and you can see the second cathedral, with the first one behind you. That's just awesome. There's also the usual reward for people who check what's below elevators, with a tiny piece of lore to make sense of the big ass dudes you fought in the previous area. Love it.
Not to mention how it addresses some main issues with the base game, like lack of weapons in general, but more importantly lack of weapons you can just pick up, and weapons you can get early into the game. The amount of stuff you can just pick up without having to buy after getting the badge is insane, and will make new characters a lot more interesting, with runs to get the weapons being a fairly common thing.
Just wish it had something PVP related, an Oath, arena or at least bell maidens by default like the other Nightmare areas. Maybe they thought that would make it too hard? I don't know.
Which traps did you think were unfair?
I actually don't remember. I guess I need to play DS1 again for a reminder.
edit.
That one where you get the Boom Hammer. Unless I missed something there is nothing that warns you about it and it killed me the first time. Then those bookcases in Research Hall. I really don't get what causes it even.
We agree to disagree, then. Locking to Kos was for me a recipe for disaster and as soon as he started jumping around near me (in second form) the camera went berserk. I'd admit that the camera is much worse in other fights and has always been a low point for the entire series, but still... Also, while I'll agree most of its attacks won't kill you in one hit, more often than not they will be part of a chain that will stunlock you to dead from a full life bar, so its the same thing. I've watched a lot of streamers fighting him by now, and believe me, this is very, very common.
I agree, however that the key in this boss is to react very quickly. That is the reason this boss, just like Ludwig, is a big skill roadblock that is designed simply to prevent some kind of players from accessing the content. Why? And how is this good design in any way? The rest of Bloodborne, and I'd say the rest of the Souls series, is nothing like this. This case reminds me of Lud & Zallen in DS2, which at least was optional, intended to be played in coop, and you could still brute force through them, even solo, with proper gear.
The Bloodborne DLC is a huge step down in my opinion and has changed my mind entirely about DS3. Now I will wait cautiously for reviews before buying.
Orochinagis
Member
Artorias, Old Hunters is using Dark Souls 1 layouts pretty often, it screams on the screen in several places, newcomers will probably enjoy Old Hunters better since Ludwing have an amazing presentation but the bosses fell like a downhill in terms of difficulty and the ability to parry them destroy a little the challenge they represent yet those bosses hit like a truck.
Fancy Clown
Member
This is how I felt about the third area. First area is great, encounter designes are well thought out and not overly spammy (since the hunters fight the beasts as well as you), interesting traps, and a cool twist on the OG location. It is too linear though, but the second area makes up for that. Ludwig is the best boss tho.
Is it the one with the wheelchair dude? You can see the explosive pots that Djura shoots in Old Yharnam trying to blow you up, and if you don't rush to the item and take it slowly, the wheelchair dude has a timed explosive on him, it's not instant. Didn't really feel unfair to me.
the whole DLC ost is fantastic
Orochinagis
Member
Nope, maybe the vermins for the League but you can earn it offline and the invader invades you offline too, maybe coop?.