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Bloodborne: The Old Hunters |OT| Old Hunters. New Tricks, Bells & Whistles.
- Thread starter Robot Pants
- Start date
Orochinagis
Member
An actual moveset that makes you run around the entire battlefield and has verticality and mobility? Yaaaaaaah, boi. Also that music is pretty decent for the fight.
Imru’ al-Qays;187585827 said:
Suuure? I mean I agree that AotA has a handful of the best fights from the Souls games, but that's not enough for me when the actual level and exploration of AotA did absolutely jack shit for me. The Souls games live and die by their level design for me and it's why I still hold Demon's Souls in the highest regard (aside from the fact that Demon's Souls is still perfection in all it set out to do).
"Kalameet did it first" doesn't do much for me when I still would fight a dozen Sinh's before one more Kalameet.
______
The Old Hunters is really solid but it isn't as consistently interesting to explore as Sunken King was. It's still too "walk through this hallway and look at how fucked up our art design is" at some parts. Plus I'd rather they experiment with boss fights instead of just putting in more filler fights like LF.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
So what exactly was the sin that cursed the Hunters that created the Nightmare?
Ludwig and his church hunters slaughtering the beasts and creating a "river of blood".
Lady Maria and the church failed experiments on humans to create Celestial Emissaries.
But how does Kos relate to the Hunter's Nightmare? Did the Hunters killed a Great One and used her body? That can't be right because the item description says the corpse of Kos washed up to shore.
Lady Maria and the church failed experiments on humans to create Celestial Emissaries.
But how does Kos relate to the Hunter's Nightmare? Did the Hunters killed a Great One and used her body? That can't be right because the item description says the corpse of Kos washed up to shore.
I mean, all of FROM DLC's are incredibly good that all of them have their own strenghts.
IMO, AotA have the best lore and bosses. DS2 Crowns have the best level design. TOH have the best atmosphere/art and weapons (I really love some of the new weapons). I just love them all.
Btw
IMO, AotA have the best lore and bosses. DS2 Crowns have the best level design. TOH have the best atmosphere/art and weapons (I really love some of the new weapons). I just love them all.
Byrgenwerh either killed her or her child. Notice the first dude at the Fishing Hamlet how blams Byrgenwerth for their sins against Kos.
Btw
are we really sure Maria did those experiments on the Research Lab? I mean, she was a hunter, I don't see her doing experiments.
I though she actually aided the people the Church were experimenting with, and endend up killing herself (after throwing her Rayuko at the well) because all of that madness. But I may have missed something.
I though she actually aided the people the Church were experimenting with, and endend up killing herself (after throwing her Rayuko at the well) because all of that madness. But I may have missed something.
Mostly likely it's
the original hunters (Gehrman, Maria, and company) coming in and mutilating Kos' corpse and leading to the death of Kos' child. Maria is the "host" of the nightmare while the Orphan is the nightmare (like Micolash and Mergo). Why you have to kill the Oprhan's ghost? I dunno.
theechrisfox
Member
j0hnny_385
Member
Since I'm done with BB, here's a playlist of all my BB vids. Hope you enjoy! Nothing fancy, but a dear record of my accomplishments 
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOahRjxl-P4ArrhLCN4Rnp94Ub90mqnvN
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOahRjxl-P4ArrhLCN4Rnp94Ub90mqnvN
Imru al-Qays
Banned
The Souls games live and die by the perfect interlocking of all of their gameplay elements, not just level design. CotSK has good level design, bad bosses, and no narrative. AotA has bad level design, spectacular bosses, and lots of narrative.
Thinking Demon's Souls is the best Souls game, in spite of its unrefined combat and lack of world design, is a perfectly valid opinion because Demon's Souls has a lot going for it. Thinking CotSK is the best Souls DLC because it does level design well and everything else poorly is faintly ridiculous.
CotSK's bosses are two reskins and one I don't even know what the fuck. You can prefer Sinh to Kalameet all you like, but AotA's bosses are still leagues better than CotSK's. And the best CotSK boss is still basically just an AotA boss.
The layout of CotSK is great, but I think you're overselling how interesting it is to explore. The encounter design is pretty bad, as I recall. And TOH has two more bosses than CotSK, so it can get away with having one be a filler fight. Especially when you consider that one of CotSK's bosses is gank squad.
plasticpassion
Member
Can someone help me with OoK? I'm in NG+, SL 182. I got him to about 15% but fuck that second phase!
No password is set.
No password is set.
Imru’ al-Qays;187589835 said:
Like I said earlier, the scope and scale of each Crown DLC is different so comparing just base numbers is irrelevant. While I think the gank squad is silly, I am continually amused and entertained when I fight them.
Also Sunken King is the first and only time they mess with "phantoms" as enemies and it's amazing for it.
And you are selling the bosses short if you think Elana and Sinh are "poor". Sunken King is still an amazing bit of game to play through and probably the most memorable Souls content I got to experience post-Demon's Souls.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Gough's dialog alone is worth more than all the phantoms in CotSK.
Robot Pants
Member
Artorias of the Abyss is the best DLC because it took what you thought you knew about certain characters and turned it on its head. Also shed some light on some Important back story.
I feel this is what The Old Hunters also is trying to do but it just confused me even more haha.
Crown of the Sunken King had awesome level design and one cool boss fight. I like it a lot but I'd still rate it the weakest of the three
I feel this is what The Old Hunters also is trying to do but it just confused me even more haha.
Crown of the Sunken King had awesome level design and one cool boss fight. I like it a lot but I'd still rate it the weakest of the three
Orochinagis
Member
Church with the Old Hunters hunted Kos, used her as experiments, disposed her corpse later on the coast while she was "pregnant" of Kos.
The fishmen cursed the Hunters due the loss of Kos, moved their females on the lower part of the Hamlet.
Maria tries to convince Adeline to understand life and possibly deny the experiments on her, Adeline dont understand Maria teachings of life and accepts to enter the experiments.
Maria lost hope or went insane dispose Rakuyo on the well. She could possible be the one who put a sunflower in a tomb on the Hamlet
Gehrman creates the Doll as Marie image, the Doll is somehow linked to Maria in a unknown way. DLC explain he was a weird man.
Living failures being an attempt to create Emmisaries from the Sun/moon using sunflowers, the experiment failed,
Laurence got called to the Nightmare, regaining somehow his head, a spiritual skull of him formed near to an altar. There are some prep experiments on the same altar,
Church focused humans into a channeling bridge to see the Great Ones, patients started to heard an "ocean" in their heads possibly the place where the great ones resides. Adeline reached a communication with the Ocean and saw the Phantasms kepts her revelation for herself,
The Phantasm saved Ludwing to succumb to the beast curse, he was later disposed/imprisioned inside a chapel alonside with the Old Hunters.
Old Hunters starts to succumb to the beast curse, several of them are being imprisioned on the nightmare church cells.
Maria commites suicide/die near to a photograph and a cup of blood/whine. She is possibly the Host of the Nightmare, her Winter Lanters descended into the Well somehow terrorizing the female fishmen.
Hunters succumbed to the bloodlust somehow gets dragged into the Hunters Nightmare
Oprhan is being dormant inside Kos, the females fish notice his presence and starts praying for the child. took a looong time to born.
The Hunter is dragged to the Nightmare.
The fishmen cursed the Hunters due the loss of Kos, moved their females on the lower part of the Hamlet.
Maria tries to convince Adeline to understand life and possibly deny the experiments on her, Adeline dont understand Maria teachings of life and accepts to enter the experiments.
Maria lost hope or went insane dispose Rakuyo on the well. She could possible be the one who put a sunflower in a tomb on the Hamlet
Gehrman creates the Doll as Marie image, the Doll is somehow linked to Maria in a unknown way. DLC explain he was a weird man.
Living failures being an attempt to create Emmisaries from the Sun/moon using sunflowers, the experiment failed,
Laurence got called to the Nightmare, regaining somehow his head, a spiritual skull of him formed near to an altar. There are some prep experiments on the same altar,
Church focused humans into a channeling bridge to see the Great Ones, patients started to heard an "ocean" in their heads possibly the place where the great ones resides. Adeline reached a communication with the Ocean and saw the Phantasms kepts her revelation for herself,
The Phantasm saved Ludwing to succumb to the beast curse, he was later disposed/imprisioned inside a chapel alonside with the Old Hunters.
Old Hunters starts to succumb to the beast curse, several of them are being imprisioned on the nightmare church cells.
Maria commites suicide/die near to a photograph and a cup of blood/whine. She is possibly the Host of the Nightmare, her Winter Lanters descended into the Well somehow terrorizing the female fishmen.
Hunters succumbed to the bloodlust somehow gets dragged into the Hunters Nightmare
Oprhan is being dormant inside Kos, the females fish notice his presence and starts praying for the child. took a looong time to born.
The Hunter is dragged to the Nightmare.
Imru’ al-Qays;187590957 said:
Souls lore and whatnot is fun to peruse, dissect, and piece back together, but I'll take the stronger core gameplay first.
Also I have a weird time placing how I feel about the Souls story stuff. It's fun to put together and that's what makes it memorable and interesting but I'd be damned to call any of the characters strong and impressing. They're mostly just fun caricatures and nothing more.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
No, Kos was already dead. Her carcass washed up on the coast. It's not a lake, it's the sea.
There's nothing really to be dissect with Gough's dialog. He's an almost entirely self-contained character. That's not what's interesting about him.
CotSK doesn't have stronger core gameplay. It has stronger level design. It has worse boss battles. It's grafted onto Dark Souls 2, which has the worst controls and combat system in the series.
deletethis123
Banned
Jesus Christ. This is crazy.
JadedWriter
Member
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What about it? It's trash-tier unless you make an extremely specific build for it. Then it's powerful, but still garbage in PvP because of how easy it is to counter. Incredibly overrated weapon.
Defiled Amy was the worst for me. That last phase, urgh.
I think it's kind of ironic that
they're still quite more powerful than the Celestial Emissaries. The successes are puny compared to the failures, lol. Though I imagine their purpose wasn't to fight but to make contact so IDK.
You mean lore, not narrative. Besides I couldn't give two shits about narrative in a Souls game.Imru’ al-Qays;187589835 said:
But Demon's Souls has the best combat. -)
Ridiculous. Neither Sinh nor Elana are reskins of anything.
I agree the Artorias bosses are better than the Sunken King ones, but come on. They don't look nearly as similar as people say they do, and they don't fight all that similarly either (Cleric Beast and Vicar Amelia are fought more similarly than, say, Elana and Nashandra).
That I agree with 100%. The lore is a cool little bonus but it's never been why I've played these games, not since Demon's.
Pretty much the ultimate weapon against big beast boss. Serrated + fire + beast pellet and with wide powerful swings, you have enough power to tear through any beasts. Cut, Sizzle and Mash all at the same time! Also great for parties and firewood in the winter! Don't wait, get your Yarnham Pizza Cutter™ today
Imru al-Qays
Banned
There's not really much of a case to be made that Dark Souls 2 doesn't have the worst controls and core combat. It does, and funky hitboxes are just part of the reason why. There's a reason Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 are grafted onto Dark Souls 1 and not Dark Souls 2.
No, I mean narrative. Artorias, Gough, Kieran, and Sif are all actual characters you actually interact with in the story.
And it's cool that you don't give two shits about narrative in a Souls game. I'm sure you watch The Wire for the gunfights or whatever. But narrative is one of the things that the Souls games excel at, and it makes sense to take it into consideration when evaluating the comparative merits of the games and their DLCs.
No it doesn't, but that's understandable - it was the first game in the series. It has plenty of rough edges.
Sinh is a Kalameet reskin. Elana is a Nashandra reskin that summons Velstadt.
They're not reskins in the way that Demon Firesage is a Stray Demon reskin, they're more differentiated than that. But Sinh shares most of its moveset with Kalameet, and Elana is actually a smaller Nashandra that summons Velstadt during the fight. AotA has four totally novel boss fights, and The Old Hunters has three plus two reskins. None of CotSK's three boss fights are totally novel: they all derive to a greater or lesser extent from previous bosses or enemies.
I keep seeing people say AotA has "bad" level design and I wonder how our opinion of Oolacile Township could be so different.
I suppose I could understand thinking it not a series highlight, but bad? No.
Also, I like the DS 2 DLCs, especially Fume Knight, Sir Alonne, Ivory King and Sinh (Kalameet is a better solo fight IMHO, but Sinh is an absolute blast with a party) but I'm less hot on the level design than a lot of people; my most recent playthrough of Iron King had me feeling a lot of the encounter design is kinda too punishing for its own good, ymmv of course. The run up to Sir Alonne is dreadful rectangles, maybe one of the most undercooked areas visually in any souls game. (The boss room itself is stunning, much like the fight.)
It's much too soon for me to judge The Old Hunters against the other DLCs, but having soloed it all in NG+, my opinion is very very positive and the first, third and fourth bosses are all series highlights. The other two are fine as well. Research Hall is one of the best areas in the series, mechanically, and the final area is one of the best atmospherically.
The whole thing where rapiers and giant clubs have that incredibly stupid aspect where they ignore lock on and can swing in exactly the wrong direction, almost always in a do or die situation, while also strangely enough being by far the best weapons to use against the widest variety of enemies makes me feel like Dark Souls 2 has the worst controls of the bunch by an unarguable distance.
Still love Dark Souls 2 and have sunk hundreds of hours into it, but that design decision should not have been made, or optional at best. It's baffling and has only ever killed me.
I suppose I could understand thinking it not a series highlight, but bad? No.
Also, I like the DS 2 DLCs, especially Fume Knight, Sir Alonne, Ivory King and Sinh (Kalameet is a better solo fight IMHO, but Sinh is an absolute blast with a party) but I'm less hot on the level design than a lot of people; my most recent playthrough of Iron King had me feeling a lot of the encounter design is kinda too punishing for its own good, ymmv of course. The run up to Sir Alonne is dreadful rectangles, maybe one of the most undercooked areas visually in any souls game. (The boss room itself is stunning, much like the fight.)
It's much too soon for me to judge The Old Hunters against the other DLCs, but having soloed it all in NG+, my opinion is very very positive and the first, third and fourth bosses are all series highlights. The other two are fine as well. Research Hall is one of the best areas in the series, mechanically, and the final area is one of the best atmospherically.
The whole thing where rapiers and giant clubs have that incredibly stupid aspect where they ignore lock on and can swing in exactly the wrong direction, almost always in a do or die situation, while also strangely enough being by far the best weapons to use against the widest variety of enemies makes me feel like Dark Souls 2 has the worst controls of the bunch by an unarguable distance.
Still love Dark Souls 2 and have sunk hundreds of hours into it, but that design decision should not have been made, or optional at best. It's baffling and has only ever killed me.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
I still don't understand or have used beast pellets.
Orochinagis
Member
Imru’ al-Qays;187591476 said:
I know, just made it quick. Thanks for the aclaration, my wires were tied with the Lake rune
Dat Shamman Bone.
JadedWriter
Member
I have got to remember that when I get to that point, I've never even used a Shaman Bone before.
since when was the shop selling ritual blood(5)?
@___@
this is indeed my favorite weapon
also wow at that HP like 27K?? does that mean
has 30- 40K?
@___@
this is indeed my favorite weapon
also wow at that HP like 27K?? does that mean
Laurence
GIANKRATOS
Member
They need to leave my saw alone.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Since 1.07. I believe they always sold certain items between the two shops, but you used to have needed access to certain chalices to unlock them. I finally got some Bastard of Loran yesterday thanks to the insight shop.
Sorry if it's been asked before, but if you're in the League, can you co-op with someone who is a lot lower or higher level? I remember I tried helping a buddy with the Gascoigne fight but it wouldnt summon me to his world because I was a really high level compared to his. Does the League do away with that?
Orochinagis
Member
I dont think so, you could probably get summoned to a NG+ Father G instead, if you want to help anyone with a lower Lv than you. you and your buddy have to use a Password to do coop.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Yeah, lack of heavy weapon lock-on and polearms "sticking" to your shield are two of my biggest complaints about DS2, in addition to the hitboxes. Plus there are the artificially prolonged animations for things like estus, being shield-broken, entering fog gates, even flipping switches. And moving from DS1's perfect healing system to a bizarre hybrid system. And roll i-frames being tied to a stat. And roll distance being tied to a separate stat.
There's just a lot wrong with the basics of combat in DS2. These sorts of unforced errors are much less frequent in the other games.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Oh boy, even a Bloodborne DLC thread turns into a DS2-bashing thread. It never fucking ends does it.
Not worth engaging with. Bye.
Holy shit, dude. Really?Imru’ al-Qays;187592673 said:
Not worth engaging with. Bye.
JadedWriter
Member
Wait roll distance is also tied to a fucking stat!???!!!!! No wonder why I hate rolling around in that god damn game. Felt fine in Dark and Demons Souls, feels completely off in Dark Souls 2 when you first start holy fuck.Imru al-Qays;187596510 said:
Dhruv_hanom
Member
Were you using a password?
Kwansu Dudes
Member
When Ludwig is in his 2nd form and he charges his sword vertically, you can infinitely stun lock him if you pizza cutter L2 so be aware yallz
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
It's not. It's tied to equip burden, just like in past games, you roll a bit farther when <30% (the difference is that the animation speed is the same up until 70%).
Funny thing: when I first played Dark Souls I felt the rolling was off because it wasn't like in Demon's Souls. xD
Roll distance is tied to a stat in Dark Souls 1 and Demon's Souls, as well.
It is not plateaued/cutoff-y in Dark Souls 2, though. Lighter = farther.
To be fair, I said I still love it; you've agreed with me in the past that the giant club ignoring lock on thing was a bad choice.
I will say I actually really like the slow healing; in Bloodborne it's much easier to spam healing and I think this explains why so many of the harder bosses have one or two hit kills; because you can heal so easily, it's easy to win in a sloppy fight. Whereas in Dark 2, knowing it's going to take a while for my heal to happen means that I have to be extra careful about when I'm going to heal.
Weren't the i-frames tied to rolling? Or what did Adp do?
Rolling feels always off when changing from Souls games to another Souls game. They are all very different.
edit. Wow i-frames tied to rolling... My brain really doesn't work anymore.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
the thing that annoys me about from's DLC strategy, is that they cut out massive pieces of lore and then fill them in with dlc.
It's just gonna be annoying in ds3, where its easier to wait for the dlc to get a clear picture of the story
It's just gonna be annoying in ds3, where its easier to wait for the dlc to get a clear picture of the story
I-frames are tied to Agility, that scales with ADP and to a lesser extend Attunement. Rolling distance is just equip burden. Even if the type of roll doesnt change, the distance does.
One of the best changes to the series would be the status screen showing properly-scaled numerical values for:
Roll Distance
Roll Invulnerability
and even a flat category of:
Roll/Movement type
The_Darkest_Red
Member
That's an odd way of looking at it. I think the lore in Bloodborne vanilla stood on its own as well or better than any Souls game, and there was plenty to dig into and learn about throughout the world. Bloodborne's world is fascinating and captivating, and I never felt like it was missing any obvious pieces. Sure there are many questions to be asked, but that's always the case with Souls games thanks to their cryptic form of storytelling. Supplementing the existing lore with additional content of an equally high quality level is the best of both worlds.
I mean, would you prefer the DLC be boring and shallow from a lore perspective?
JadedWriter
Member
Oh ok, makes more sense. I just got alarmed cause it sounded like I wasn't leveling up something enough. I know about equip burden already and seemed like it wasn't as constrictive as the first two Souls games are on that front.