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Boeing Whines; Trump Issues 300% Tariff; Bombardier & Airbus Partner, Build Jet in US

S

Syriel

Member
We had a thread about Boeing complaining about Bombardier selling a jet to Delta (a kind of jet that Boeing didn't even make). Trump ended up issuing a 300% import tax on the plane, effectively killing its sales.

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1439103

So, yesterday, Bombardier gave a 50.01 percent stake in the C-Series to Airbus, which has committed to market it. More importantly, Airbus is going to build the C-Series airframe at a plant in the US, making the jet "US Made" and exempt from the Boeing/Trump protection racket.

Bombardier shares are up 25 percent. Airbus shares are up nearly 4 percent.

GG Airbus. Boeing, you played yourself.

Under the agreement, Airbus (EADSF) will acquire 50.01% of the program. Crucially, the European plane maker will establish a second final assembly line for the jetliner in Alabama, where it currently builds larger single-aisle jets for U.S. airlines. The facility will be expanded to make room for manufacturing the C Series.

The arrangement potentially opens the door for more U.S. carriers to sign up for the jet. JetBlue Airways (JBLU) and Spirit Airlines (SAVE), both large Airbus customers, have previously voiced support for Bombardier's position against the Department of Commerce. And it could salvage business with Delta (DAL), which has said it won't pay the tariff.

Airbus denied that its goal was to avoid U.S. tariffs on the new jet. But the assembly line plans it unveiled mean the C Series will now be "made in the U.S.A."
Click to expand...

In a single move, Bombardier and Airbus have gone from rivals to partners. Airbus' retiring chief salesman John Leahy had long mocked the small airliner, and aggressively and repeatedly blocked the plane from winning deals at airlines around the world.

The move has broad implications for U.S. aerospace manufacturing and the global balance of power to build jetliners for the world's airlines. Melding the Airbus product line with Bombardier's C Series gives the European company a broad range of airplanes -- from 100 seats all the way through Airbus's 555-seat A380 superjumbo -- as it seeks to craft deals and win business over Boeing.

Airbus appears content to let its smallest single-aisle jetliner, the A319neo, die. That aircraft hasn't sold since 2012, said Enders, and will be supplanted by the CS300, the larger of Bombardier's C Series models.

Boeing has sought to kill the nascent jetliner before it gained signification commercial traction, but it now faces a competitor with Airbus' resources and reach.
Click to expand...

Source:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/16/news/companies/airbus-buys-majority-stake-bombardier-cseries/


Airbus shares rose as much as 3.7 percent in Paris trading to the highest in almost a month. Bombardier surged 25 percent, the most in more than two years.

Bombardier is in need of a friend: The C Series is low on orders and high on costs, the Canadian company’s smaller planes are slow sellers, and its train business is in dire straits after losing out on a combination with Siemens AG. Airbus, for its part, is emerging from its own challenges in ramping up production of its A350 and A320neo models. So when the opportunity flared up again in August, Enders pounced.

The alliance, Enders says, will help Bombardier by adding the plane to the Airbus sales roster, and airlines will have greater confidence that it will get the long-term support they need to keep it flying.

“Customers always ask the question of security, and if their product will be serviced in the long run,” Enders said in a phone interview. “Airbus gives this program much-needed security.”
Click to expand...

Source:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-17/airbus-boss-nails-bombardier-timing
 
K

kess

Member
Sounds like a repeat of the Reagan era restrictions on Japanese cars, which ended up being assembled in America... which decimated the domestics.
 
F

FrankCanada97

Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
C Series orders are going to increase dramatically. Noncommittal airlines were waiting to see how this all played out. The plane is delivering fuel efficiency better than what was already advertised according to SWISS and Baltic Air.

On the other hand Airbus could just as well kill the entire project down the line to preserve the Airbus and Boeing duopoly.
 
A

Azuran

Banned
Salty Boeing is giving me life today. Blatantly lying with their statement because they know they got outsmarted lmao
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
More like bringing much needed manufacturing jobs to Alabama.

Trump the GRAND chessmaster of strategy.
 
D

darscot

Member
kirblar said:
Yes and Yes. Probably bad for Canada cause we took their jobs.

But it backfiring completely on Boeing is still hilarious.
Click to expand...

You need to check your math, no jobs will be lost in Canada. The plane will now be a success Canada will get to build more of them. They will have more jobs. A Canadian and European company will make more money. Boeing should not really lose because they are not competition anyway. There will be some jobs in the US too. This is called partnership and growth. Trump just fucked it all up and looks like an idiot.
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
FrankCanada97 said:
On the other hand Airbus could just as well kill the entire project down the line to preserve the Airbus and Boeing duopoly.
Click to expand...
The deal gives Airbus the option to buyout both Bombardier (in 7.5 year) and the QC Government (in 2023) and keep the C-series all to themselves. Why would they kill it?
 
T

ThreePiMatt

Member
Here's the thing. Boeing probably isn't actually worried about these planes. They don't have an equivalent to the CS100. What is more important is heading off the fight with with the Comac C919s coming out of China which will be direct competitors to the Boeing's bread-and-butter, the 737.
 
E

Electric Eye

Banned
Dipper145 said:
I mean at least there are jobs being made with the expanded manufacturing for the planes in Alabama
Click to expand...

This wasn't about jobs for Boeing they just wanted and advantage regardless of where they made it and it backfired. You would think they of all people would realize the world doesn't revolve around America anymore.
 
A

Atenhaus

Member
... 153D chess, mirite?

Also most certainly sending this article to like half my family (that work for Boeing in and around Washington).
 
N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
LBM55wY.gif
 
F

FrankCanada97

Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
Fuzzy said:
The deal gives Airbus the option to buyout both Bombardier (in 7.5 year) and the QC Government (in 2023) and keep the C-series all to themselves. Why would they kill it?
Click to expand...
If it's decided that they want to stretch the C-Series jet, then that would put it in competition with the A320. If sales don't increase as expected, I think Airbus would do what Boeing did to the 717 when they acquired it from McDonnell Douglas and just end production. This is years from now, and I don't claim to have an insight on what will happen. It's just a possibility.
 
M

Madness

Member
Azuran said:
LMAO

300% SALES TAX

300%
Click to expand...

Canada needs to cancek it's orders for the already obsolete FA-18 super hornets. Hit Americans where it hurts too. Instead look towards Europe for some Eurofighters or Dassault Rafales or something. Give a hard look at the JSF-35 stealth fighters too. This is just crazy how the US has basically alienated every ally and yet gotten closer to Russia.
 
D

Deleted member 1159

Unconfirmed Member
TRUMP GOT AMERICANS JERBS.

JEEEERBBS!
 
P

Poohblaster

Member
It sounds like Boeing should have partnered with Bombardier to manufacture the jet in the U.S.

I don't think this is a political loss for Trump, he will spin that manufacturing jobs will be created in Alabama because of the Bombardier-Airbus deal.
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Poohblaster said:
It sounds like Boeing should have partnered with Bombardier to manufacture the jet in the U.S.

I don't think this is a political loss for Trump, he will spin that manufacturing jobs will be created in Alabama because of the Bombardier-Airbus deal.
Click to expand...

No, in fact he can argue massively he forced a foreign company to play fair and build items in the US again. Also can argue that the idea of tariffs work. It is in fact a huge boon for Trump and not the L some folks are going for.

Honestly this is not only a loss for Boeing, but possibly other Foreign companies who are going to force to do similar deals if the Trump folks move foreward with this.
 
A

Armaros

Member
maabus1999 said:
No, in fact he can argue massively he forced a foreign company to play fair and build items in the US again. Also can argue that the idea of tariffs work. It is in fact a huge boon for Trump and not the L some folks are going for.

Honestly this is not only a loss for Boeing, but possibly other Foreign companies who are going to force to do similar deals if the Trump folks move foreward with this.
Click to expand...

It's a Canadian company working with a European Company to use existing plants to make Canadian planes to sell to the US market where they weren't allowed before. So no need jobs, and all the profits to to foreign entities.

This helps Trump and Boeing how?
 
V

VeeP

Member
kirblar said:
Yes and Yes. Probably bad for Canada cause we took their jobs.

But it backfiring completely on Boeing is still hilarious.
Click to expand...

Kinda sucks for Canada, but at least they have a stable political climate unlike us/US :(. Oh well, I'm glad the US got more jobs, and glad Boeing has more competition now.
 
A

Armaros

Member
VeeP said:
Kinda sucks for Canada, but at least they have a stable political climate unlike us/US :(. Oh well, I'm glad the US got more jobs, and glad Boeing has more competition now.
Click to expand...

There aren't new jobs, the Airbus plant in Alabama already exists and will just be retooled to make the C-Series.

The Canadian plant will also continue to make them there as well and sell them to Asian and Europe markets which will surely have an uptick after US airlines start ordering the US made ones.

There is a reason why bombaider stocks when up 25%. They really needed the ability to sell their products. Even if they had to give up control to Airbus
 
M

maabus1999

Member
Armaros said:
It's a Canadian company working with a European Company to use existing plants to make Canadian planes to sell to the US market where they weren't allowed before. So no need jobs, and all the profits to to foreign entities.

This helps Trump and Boeing how?
Click to expand...

Crucially, the European plane maker will establish a second final assembly line for the jetliner in Alabama, where it currently builds larger single-aisle jets for U.S. airlines. The facility will be expanded to make room for manufacturing the C Series.
Click to expand...

That is a lot of jobs...

Still, Even if it made zero new jobs, it is still a PR tag for Trump and if you don't see why, can't help you there either.

And I never said it helped Boeing........
 
N

numble

Member
Armaros said:
It's a Canadian company working with a European Company to use existing plants to make Canadian planes to sell to the US market where they weren't allowed before. So no need jobs, and all the profits to to foreign entities.

This helps Trump and Boeing how?
Click to expand...
He’s fine with foreign companies investing in the US. That’s why he used Foxconn and SoftBank investments as PR boosts.
 
A

Armaros

Member
maabus1999 said:
That is a lot of jobs...

Still, Even if it made zero new jobs, it is still a PR tag for Trump and if you don't see why, can't help you there either.

And I never said it helped Boeing........
Click to expand...

Trump would try to spin taking a dump on the WH lawn as a PR win.

what's going to matter is how other US businesses react to this and future similar events.
 
P

PdotMichael

Banned
maabus1999 said:
No, in fact he can argue massively he forced a foreign company to play fair and build items in the US again. Also can argue that the idea of tariffs work. It is in fact a huge boon for Trump and not the L some folks are going for.

Honestly this is not only a loss for Boeing, but possibly other Foreign companies who are going to force to do similar deals if the Trump folks move foreward with this.
Click to expand...

No, not really. Foreign companies are profiting from this deal while the one American company is losing business deals. Extra points for giving Airbus, Boeing's big rival, a new plane basically for free.

Airbus

- got a new plane
- got deals in a growing market segment
- got deals in Boeing's home turf
 
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