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[tanod]

NPD, PAL sales, box office tracking. Regular, multi-hundred post threads about sales. It's a topic of discussion with all games, and other industries, on GAF.

Here we have a critically acclaimed game that many of us have found to be exceptional, which was made by essentially two people. It's a significant event for XBLA and small team developers in general that the game is getting this kind of praise, and despite being priced higher than most XBLA games is selling well.

It is very relevant to talk about how it is doing.

I know that's what we do here but in this case, I don't think the leaderboard counts are the best measure.

Shouldn't we be watching the automated Automatic XBLA thread on GAF. Wouldn't that give us a much better indication of real sales?

 

[FrankT]

It's news to me but apparently on my first playthrough last night getting all the puzzle pieces, I also happened to get all the

Spoiler

stars

. Do they have any meaning or how do you actually get them? I don't remember getting them.

What's with the obsession of sales revenue for the game? Do people do this for every arcade release? :\ I find it kind of annoying.

Sales Age, nothing new whatsoever. It's relevant to not only the price point discussion, but the fact he has already stated that another game depends on sales as well. I'll be tracking it regardless.

I know that's what we do here but in this case, I don't think the leaderboard counts are the best measure.

Shouldn't we be watching the automated Automatic XBLA thread on GAF. Wouldn't that give us a much better indication of real sales?

He has already given us a measure of sales at one point with his blog post last night inlcuding taking into account free accounts.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I know that's what we do here but in this case, I don't think the leaderboard counts are the best measure.

True, but it's a data point. We know it's over-stated by a certain amount for a couple reasons. But it's a holistic number that gives a good estimate for how things are going, especially in the first few days.

Shouldn't we be watching the automated Automatic XBLA thread on GAF. Wouldn't that give us a much better indication of real sales?

That's another data point, and can show relative popularity (on GAF, at least), but it don't provide an estimate of overall sales.

It's just a (high) estimate. But it did corrospond pretty closely to the sales through Friday; the numbers posted in this thread for the leaderboards were only a few thousand higher.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Finally finished it - the final level and the epilogue blew me away. Fantastic game, more my #1 GOTY contender now than ever. This really is this year's Portal, and I think I may like it even more because I am a sucker for the kind of artsy-fartsy ambition that it aspires to, in everything from the cerebral design to the art style to the literary prose to the way in which the design concepts and story concepts inform one another. Just brilliant. All the 10/10s are entirely justified.

 

[Phaethon0017]

Every time I load the game my previous progress is erased. Does this game not allow you to save? I have it on pause right now, can someone explain to me what the deal is? I haven't seen a save option. I thought it autosaved.

 

[Azure Dream]

Every time I load the game my previous progress is erased. Does this game not allow you to save? I have it on pause right now, can someone explain to me what the deal is? I haven't seen a save option. I thought it autosaved.

It does, but someone posted a big red warning about not "Exit(ing) to World" while doing the Time Trials without explaining why previously in the topic. Did you do that? (Probably not, if you keep losing your progress like that, you would have had to beat the game first.)

 

[RiskyChris]

It does, but someone posted a big red warning about not "Exit(ing) to World" while doing the Time Trials without explaining why previously in the topic. Did you do that? (Probably not, if you keep losing your progress like that, you would have had to beat the game first.)

Sorry, I should've clarified. When I tried to exit a world on my speed run (the big one), it just kicked me out of the speed run and back to my single player :lol

 

[Phaethon0017]

I did the exit world option after I solved the puzzle in world 2. I'm only on world 3, haven't beaten the game yet. Very annoying having to start from scratch. Do I just have to never press exit to world?

 

[RiskyChris]

I did the exit world option after I solved the puzzle in world 2. I'm only on world 3, haven't beaten the game yet. Very annoying having to start from scratch. Do I just have to never press exit to world?

No, it's perfectly fine and super super convenient to use while just solving puzzles on a run through. Just don't use it when you use the speed run option later.

Are you using the same gamertag to play the game?

 

[Phaethon0017]

Yeah I'm only using one gamertag. I did switch Xboxes but with the same HDD. When I had to start over again I thought it was weird, but this is the 2nd time I've had to restart.

 

[Draft]

So sometimes you try to open a door and the key just breaks. If it's a time immune key, does that mean you've fucked up the puzzle and have to restart? As in, exit and re-enter the level?

 

[sublime085]

So sometimes you try to open a door and the key just breaks. If it's a time immune key, does that mean you've fucked up the puzzle and have to restart? As in, exit and re-enter the level?

Sometimes, yeah.

 

[Draft]

Kind of dumb.

 

[RiskyChris]

Kind of dumb.

Adds a lot of depth to some puzzles though.

Like the one with the giant cloud, two doors, one key.

 

[Mike Works]

Just played it for 10 minutes, which is about 9 minutes more than it deserved. Biggest waste of $15 in a long time. I don't know why I keep listening to GAF when it comes to XBLA and PSN downloads, but you guys somehow managed to hype a game that's even worse than PixelJunk Eden, and I'll bet you anything the reason why it's getting hyped so much is because of the wonderful combination of having a "unique" (read: French) art style and fan service like the Mario piranha plants and ripping off Prince of Persia's gameplay mechanic.

Next time you guys feel like hyping up an indie game, can you make sure it's actually a good game like Geometry Wars or something? Playing this game is the first time I've actually wanted the red rings of death.

Yet another GAF-hyped barebones platformer smeared with fancy gloss +1

 

[Mr Killemgood]

Hmm. Nice to see that JB says my Xbox Live Arcade numbers are close to actuals.

If you want to go by my numbers vs. Leaderboards, Braid is over 41,000 at the moment, which would make me think that there's a 10% discrepancy between my numbers and leaderboards, which should be enough to account for the promotional copies & profile doubles.

As for his quote about making a profit: The big question has to do with publishing rights...If it is indeed self-published, and he gets the 70% developer cut, I'm surprised it needs to sell a ton more copies. If it's not published by him, it's rather understandable.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that due to his quotes, it's most likely going to need to make him around $500,00-$600,000 to turn a profit. At $600,000 before Microsoft (and possibly publisher) cuts, it won't take him very long to make money. And since WoM has been spectacular, it should be like N+ and stay in the top-10 for half of the year.

As for Xbox Live Arcade Hits - It seems like most games wind up becoming an Arcade Hit around the 200,000-250,000 copy mark, or $2,000,000 in Gross Revenue. Should that be the case, Braid could become an Arcade Hit pretty quickly...But I bet there are other aspects involved in reducing the price (like being on market for a year).

 

[Jme]

So I had a marathon play session - *FINALLY* completed World 2 100% - man, when that last bit clicks, it's such a feeling of accomplishment!
I also finished off Worlds 3 and 4 100%. I have just 1 or 2 peices left for 5, and 6 is barely touched...

These puzzles are beautifully hard... Headache inducing. Sometimes, you just have to walk away and look at it with fresh eyes later on.
I love this game, well worth the $15. Hopefully I will finish it in time for Bionic Commando on Wednesday, otherwise Bionic might have to take a backseat for a while.

 

[sublime085]

Just played it for 10 minutes, which is about 9 minutes more than it deserved. Biggest waste of $15 in a long time. I don't know why I keep listening to GAF when it comes to XBLA and PSN downloads, but you guys somehow managed to hype a game that's even worse than PixelJunk Eden, and I'll bet you anything the reason why it's getting hyped so much is because of the wonderful combination of having a "unique" (read: French) art style and fan service like the Mario piranha plants and ripping off Prince of Persia's gameplay mechanic.

Next time you guys feel like hyping up an indie game, can you make sure it's actually a good game like Geometry Wars or something? Playing this game is the first time I've actually wanted the red rings of death.

Yet another GAF-hyped barebones platformer smeared with fancy gloss +1

oooh, controversial.

 

[Draft]

Adds a lot of depth to some puzzles though.

Like the one with the giant cloud, two doors, one key.

Did it add any depth to that puzzle at all? I don't remember the solution having anything to do with the "broken" door. All that door did was require me to restart and go use the other door instead.

 

[DancingJesus]

Just played it for 10 minutes, which is about 9 minutes more than it deserved. Biggest waste of $15 in a long time. I don't know why I keep listening to GAF when it comes to XBLA and PSN downloads, but you guys somehow managed to hype a game that's even worse than PixelJunk Eden, and I'll bet you anything the reason why it's getting hyped so much is because of the wonderful combination of having a "unique" (read: French) art style and fan service like the Mario piranha plants and ripping off Prince of Persia's gameplay mechanic.

Next time you guys feel like hyping up an indie game, can you make sure it's actually a good game like Geometry Wars or something? Playing this game is the first time I've actually wanted the red rings of death.

Yet another GAF-hyped barebones platformer smeared with fancy gloss +1

Can you give your copy to me. I'm broke.

 

[FrankT]

Just played it for 10 minutes, which is about 9 minutes more than it deserved. Biggest waste of $15 in a long time. I don't know why I keep listening to GAF when it comes to XBLA and PSN downloads, but you guys somehow managed to hype a game that's even worse than PixelJunk Eden, and I'll bet you anything the reason why it's getting hyped so much is because of the wonderful combination of having a "unique" (read: French) art style and fan service like the Mario piranha plants and ripping off Prince of Persia's gameplay mechanic.

Next time you guys feel like hyping up an indie game, can you make sure it's actually a good game like Geometry Wars or something? Playing this game is the first time I've actually wanted the red rings of death.

Yet another GAF-hyped barebones platformer smeared with fancy gloss +1

I don't know either, but you don't have to listen to GAF that could be a start. A good start at that maybe. Perhaps you can try the reviews next time if GAF doesn't work out for ya.

 

[sublime085]

Did it add any depth to that puzzle at all? I don't remember the solution having anything to do with the "broken" door. All that door did was require me to restart and go use the other door instead.

Yeah, that one is pretty obviously straight up trial and error. There is really no logic at all dictating which door the key should work in.

I agree. A little dumb. Though I think it works well in Fragile Companion.

 

[Jme]

Did it add any depth to that puzzle at all? I don't remember the solution having anything to do with the "broken" door. All that door did was require me to restart and go use the other door instead.

A pretty fitting theme for the game - which is essentially all about learning from your mistakes.

 

[Draft]

A pretty fitting theme for the game - which is essentially all about learning from your mistakes.

Oh God.

 

[a Master Ninja]

Can you give your copy to me. I'm broke.

I don't know either, but you don't have to listen to GAF that could be a start. A good start at that maybe. Perhaps you can try the reviews next time if GAF doesn't work out for ya.

LOL

 

[sonicmj1]

Yeah, that one is pretty obviously straight up trial and error. There is really no logic at all dictating which door the key should work in.

I agree. A little dumb. Though I think it works well in Fragile Companion.

Well, technically, there is logic behind it. It's just not the sort of thing you'd realize right when you get the key, because the game never informs you of why it doesn't work in a way that doesn't require you to restart the level.

 

[DancingJesus]

LOL

HAHA. Well fucking played.

 

[rollingstart]

Oh God.

My exact reaction.

 

[GhaleonEB]

HAHA. Well fucking played.

He really racked'em up there. :lol

 

[FrankT]

LOL

Good for a laugh. I should probably visit OT a bit more as I've responded to two of these in there now with serious posts. :lol

 

[Jme]

Oh God.

Sarcasm and text... Like oil and water...
Anyway, yea the game is about learning from mistakes, but not about arbitrary solutions. I think there was another puzzle similar later on, unless I'm just crazy. (Same, 2 doors but the key only unlocks one of them..)

The best use of a the "fixed" key is in the area underground with 3 locked doors in a row.

 

[RiskyChris]

Did it add any depth to that puzzle at all? I don't remember the solution having anything to do with the "broken" door. All that door did was require me to restart and go use the other door instead.

It was part of the solution since you can't use that door, also there was another level where you had to make sure you used the timekey on the right doors, while using normal keys on others.

 

[Draft]

Don't get me wrong, I like the puzzles, and some of them are just stupid clever. I just don't like puzzles with seemingly arbitrary failure points that require a level reset.

So far, the best puzzle for me was the second (I think) "Hunt", in the level where time runs backwards when you move left. When I figured out how to do it I was literally yelling at my screen in triumph.

 

[RiskyChris]

Don't get me wrong, I like the puzzles, and some of them are just stupid clever. I just don't like puzzles with seemingly arbitrary failure points that require a level reset.

I agree, and one of Braid's coolest features is the relative lack of these failure points that PLAGUE the puzzle genre.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Don't get me wrong, I like the puzzles, and some of them are just stupid clever. I just don't like puzzles with seemingly arbitrary failure points that require a level reset.

So far, the best puzzle for me was the second (I think) "Hunt", in the level where time runs backwards when you move left. When I figured out how to do it I was literally yelling at my screen in triumph.

Yeah, there's a handful of puzzles where either the rules are not made clear (Fickle Companion) or there are some irregular failure causes in place. They stand out even more because most of the game manages to avoid them.

Just imagine how brutal the reviews would have been if they were all like that. I probably would have hurled my controller into a wall.

 

[Draft]

Oh now, wait just a second. Fickle Companion was awesome. I just polished off that dude earlier today, and that was another screen yelling moment. When I realized exactly why the key was doing what it was doing... :lol Pure pleasure! Pure gaming pleasure!

 

[rollingstart]

The one puzzle that was completely confusing was

Spoiler

the one where the key would fall out of your hand and go back in time. It didn't make a lot of sense at first, but eventually I would understand what was going on with it.

 

[Durante]

I just bought this game and played it for 4 hours. Amazing. Most fun I've had with a puzzler since Portal, and this one has the advantage that more than one or 2 puzzles actually require thinking. My greatest *click* moment (though there were quite a few of them) so far was figuring out how to get the upper right puzzle piece in "The Cloud Bridge".

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh now, wait just a second. Fickle Companion was awesome. I just polished off that dude earlier today, and that was another screen yelling moment. When I realized exactly why the key was doing what it was doing... :lol Pure pleasure! Pure gaming pleasure!

Heh, maybe it was just me. That was the one puzzle that I just couldn't get. :lol

 

[Jme]

Oh now, wait just a second. Fickle Companion was awesome. I just polished off that dude earlier today, and that was another screen yelling moment. When I realized exactly why the key was doing what it was doing... :lol Pure pleasure! Pure gaming pleasure!

Fickle Companion is a total HATE -> LOVE transition.

Anyone who has yet to complete it will HATE IT.
Once they have solved it, they will LOVE IT (and themselves.)

 

[Draft]

Let me be clear:

I think probably we're all talking about the same puzzle piece in Fickle Companion. The one that's behind a locked door up two ladders.

It took me probably 30 minutes to figure out how to get the key even close to that general area. When I did, I gave a shout of triumph. Then I went to pick it up, and it warped to the very top platform, and I gave a shout of FUCK. Another 15 minutes though, and I had it.

I remember, on the way to the door, the time proof Goomba had respawned, and as I jumped on him I said out loud to an empty room, "and fuck you too." :lol

 

[RiskyChris]

You'll develop a new hatred for the puzzle if you can't solve it perfectly when you start doing speed runs.

 

[LJ11]

The one puzzle that was completely confusing was

Spoiler

the one where the key would fall out of your hand and go back in time. It didn't make a lot of sense at first, but eventually I would understand what was going on with it.

The problem I had with it;

Spoiler

I kept stomping the turtle near the ladder and the key kept dropping back down, pissed me off until I figured it out.

 

[rollingstart]

Let me be clear:

I think probably we're all talking about the same puzzle piece in Fickle Companion. The one that's behind a locked door up two ladders.

It took me probably 30 minutes to figure out how to get the key even close to that general area. When I did, I gave a shout of triumph. Then I went to pick it up, and it warped to the very top platform, and I gave a shout of FUCK. Another 15 minutes though, and I had it.

I remember, on the way to the door, the time proof Goomba had respawned, and as I jumped on him I said out loud to an empty room, "and fuck you too." :lol

Yep, that is the one.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Then I went to pick it up, and it warped to the very top platform, and I gave a shout of FUCK. Another 15 minutes though, and I had it.

Yup, that was the one, and that was largely why I loathed it - even after I figured it out, the key warping to the bottom level drove me NUTS. Probably ~35 attempts before it worked.

 

[Chinner]

ah man, some other guys on a forum i read have had the ending ruined for them. it'll still be cool because the presentation is nuts, but it will take osme of the umph out of it.

 

[gregor7777]

Shouldn't we be watching the automated Automatic XBLA thread on GAF. Wouldn't that give us a much better indication of real sales?

A far higher percentage of the GAF population is likely to pick up a game like Braid than you'd find in the general population. This game seems made for people like us.

Jonathon Blow is the Denis Dyack of "indie" games.

Reading some of these interviews... ugh. Sorry, but a game that sells like 25,000 copies is not going to change the world.

To be fair to Mr. Blow, he was talking a mountain of shit long before the game released. :lol

 

[Chris Remo]

Just played it for 10 minutes, which is about 9 minutes more than it deserved. Biggest waste of $15 in a long time. I don't know why I keep listening to GAF when it comes to XBLA and PSN downloads, but you guys somehow managed to hype a game that's even worse than PixelJunk Eden, and I'll bet you anything the reason why it's getting hyped so much is because of the wonderful combination of having a "unique" (read: French) art style and fan service like the Mario piranha plants and ripping off Prince of Persia's gameplay mechanic.

Next time you guys feel like hyping up an indie game, can you make sure it's actually a good game like Geometry Wars or something? Playing this game is the first time I've actually wanted the red rings of death.

Yet another GAF-hyped barebones platformer smeared with fancy gloss +1

I don't know why you listen to GAF either, if you don't like the games that GAF likes.
And how you could call Braid "barebones" is beyond me; I've never seen a game that features these mechanics.

On another note, Geometry Wars is not an indie game.

 

[FrankT]

I don't know why you listen to GAF either, if you don't like the games that GAF likes.
And how you could call Braid "barebones" is beyond me; I've never seen a game that features these mechanics.

On another note, Geometry Wars is not an indie game.

See post 1875 we've been had by the notorious Mike Works.

 

[RiskyChris]

See post 1875 we've been had by the notorious Mike Works.

Been had? It was a lame troll to begin with, since his whole tirade doesn't make sense in an era of XBLA demos.