bring a healer. autobattle. watch a movie.
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Brave Frontier |OT| No puzzles, just dragons
- Thread starter colinp
- Start date
bring a healer. autobattle. watch a movie.
He also heals for a lot when that occurs too. It is refreshing to see the promotion of single target stuff like that. I keep wondering if his hp threshold is low enough for a solid water crit team to plough through it though.
These fights seem to be one of two choices, given the difficulty. Both approaches mirror the legendary dungeons ideologies really.
Either you mititgate it and chip away, or attempt to OTK. I don't really see a middle ground to be had. Loch, Amy, Grybe, and Lodin seem to be the valuable brings for Rhein. Rhein also seems to be the lugina+1 for arena, while Reed is grah 1.5 .
I'm not entirely familiar with this batch, but Reed and Rhein are the only ones I recall folks talking about at all.
do remember attack is a pretty meaningless stat all things consider when you break down how damage is calculated.
Still this batch has some baller ass free units which will only get better when they get 6*.
Multipliers are more potent compared to adders.
Multipliers being Spark, Crit, and elemental weakness.
Adders being raw +atk, atk potions, ores, BB damage % increase,and ignore defense.
The adders all fall in the first half of the equation which gets compared against and subsequently reduced by the defense (1/3rd) value in the equation. This in turn gets multiplied by the multiplers at the end of the equation followed by hit distribution mechanics which can also boost or lower the total damage calculation. Raw mitigation occurs after that IIRC.
The main reason why rainbow leaders get used (dia/lodin) is for the +30% to BC potentcy that comes with a elemental shifting character who has another effect on the LS and has additional BB bar support in either direct replenishment or additional agumentation for crystal appearance.
Shouta
Member
Oh, those. Meh. Attack seems to be strong enough, especially if you have the other buffs in your squad already.
Also, your terms are confusing. You should say damage multiplier vs stat multiplier. Both technically multiply something. Adding 75% Attack is the same as a 1.75 multiplier, lol.
I'd need to see the equations and the exact effects but it's not always the case that damage multipliers beat out stat multipliers. It often does beat stat multipliers but if they aren't totally making their stats meaningless then there will be instances where stats do trump it.
Also, your terms are confusing. You should say damage multiplier vs stat multiplier. Both technically multiply something. Adding 75% Attack is the same as a 1.75 multiplier, lol.
I'd need to see the equations and the exact effects but it's not always the case that damage multipliers beat out stat multipliers. It often does beat stat multipliers but if they aren't totally making their stats meaningless then there will be instances where stats do trump it.
Reference
Damage = (Base ATK + Base ATK * (BB damage bonus + ATK buff + Elem ATK buff + Sphere ATK + LS1 ATK + LS2 ATK + Potion ATK +Ore ATK) - (EnemyDEF * 0.3)) * Crit (1.5 + LS1 CritDmg% + LS2 CritDmg% + Sphere CritDmg%) * ElemWeakness (1.5 + LS1 ElemWeakness% +LS2 ElemWeakness%) * Spark (1.5 + LS1 Spark% + LS2 Spark%+ Sphere Spark% + Buff Spark%) * Individual Hit Damage Modifier
Basically, the stat modifiers aren't really modifying the stats which in turn would get modified by other status modifiers. They just take snapshots of the base value and adjust themselves together then get multiplied after defense is taken into effect. Otherwise it would be looking more like Base * LS1 * LS2 * Ore * Potion * Sphere * Buf instead of Base * (lots of stuff added together). This is what I meant by adders vs multipliers. So if you had Kuda using his buff, it would be directly equivilant to having 2 lodin leaders for example in terms of damage increase. Comparitively speaking, lets say you have kuda buff, 2 +50% leaders, +50% potion, wicked blade, and an ore you would come out to a +400% atk bonus for all of your attacks. 6* shida nude using his BB lv10 has +400% atk bonus. Both of those items fall in the same place within the damage formula, which would later be multiplied by the multipliers.
So while a unit could apply a rough +50~100% increase to regular attacks through the leader skill atk adjustment, when applying everything together you start being able to witness things like dual maxwell to the tune of +1400% after everything gets all multiplied together.
The conversation changes when trying to assess max damage potential for particular units and which are optimal since the Base ATK value ends up being far more important since it gets referenced multiple times independantly.
here's hoping i explained that in a way that made sense...
I just try to use it as a roadmap really. But, since resources are limited in general (unit space, item space, etc) I just aim for a more lazy "what makes sense approach".
Looking at % increase based off of previous existing attributes and relative effectiveness is where this rabit hole leads down. Like in the shida comparison, if he had both sides of the buff/ls/sphere stuff on him when he used his BB, you increased his damage potential by 100%. Swap in a single Maxwell instead of one of those 50% leader skills and you instantly get 687.5% damage increase if you are hitting an elemental weakness of the base unit (it used to be that elemental buffs applied to this figure, which they no longer do), while losing out on 6.25% of the damage through the lack of the +50% atk leader skill.
Of course, this assumes that the attack crits as well, so on average, you could "normalize" the damage by 70%, but it is not that simple, since the attacks themselves get weighted differently. IE Mariudeth has 3 hits on his SBB which are weighted 80%, 10%, 10%. Many of the enhanced crit damage units (much in the same way that the +spark damage LS units having spark augmentation bbs) have bonuses to crit chance attached to their BB skills. Some units also have hidden buffs on their BB like hogar, dilma, loch where they inherently have +20-25% chance to crit in addition to the base +10% chance to crit making things like even maxwell's buff putting them close to or at the max crit chance anyhow.
So, the "simplified" approach is really trying to address what you are trying to do with the team. Who is the striking unit that makes the most sense (IE elemental superior unit vs target), which 2 leads bring the most damage/damage potential to the table (maxwell, mariudeth, etc), then which remaining spots are filled with units who buff support the striking unit/team the most effecitvely. Concerns about sustainability come after that.
Folks have tried to calculate max damage potential for a few different units and rank them, but they have been revised once or twice due to hit distribution issues and other "hidden" buffs with a couple of them. Once the figures start approaching 1m damage, I'm thinking that's probably good enough for most everything.
Looking at % increase based off of previous existing attributes and relative effectiveness is where this rabit hole leads down. Like in the shida comparison, if he had both sides of the buff/ls/sphere stuff on him when he used his BB, you increased his damage potential by 100%. Swap in a single Maxwell instead of one of those 50% leader skills and you instantly get 687.5% damage increase if you are hitting an elemental weakness of the base unit (it used to be that elemental buffs applied to this figure, which they no longer do), while losing out on 6.25% of the damage through the lack of the +50% atk leader skill.
Of course, this assumes that the attack crits as well, so on average, you could "normalize" the damage by 70%, but it is not that simple, since the attacks themselves get weighted differently. IE Mariudeth has 3 hits on his SBB which are weighted 80%, 10%, 10%. Many of the enhanced crit damage units (much in the same way that the +spark damage LS units having spark augmentation bbs) have bonuses to crit chance attached to their BB skills. Some units also have hidden buffs on their BB like hogar, dilma, loch where they inherently have +20-25% chance to crit in addition to the base +10% chance to crit making things like even maxwell's buff putting them close to or at the max crit chance anyhow.
So, the "simplified" approach is really trying to address what you are trying to do with the team. Who is the striking unit that makes the most sense (IE elemental superior unit vs target), which 2 leads bring the most damage/damage potential to the table (maxwell, mariudeth, etc), then which remaining spots are filled with units who buff support the striking unit/team the most effecitvely. Concerns about sustainability come after that.
Folks have tried to calculate max damage potential for a few different units and rank them, but they have been revised once or twice due to hit distribution issues and other "hidden" buffs with a couple of them. Once the figures start approaching 1m damage, I'm thinking that's probably good enough for most everything.
The reason %ATK isn't very good is because it isn't multiplied by BB damage modifiers, it's just added to them. For instance, a unit has a 580% dmg mod with their SBB. Throw in a LS with 50%ATK boost and their dmg becomes just 630%.
Compare that to a 100% crit dmg LS, where the same unit goes from 870% dmg on crit (580 x 1.5 normal crit mod) to 1450% dmg on crit (580 x (1.5 + 1) crit mod). As you can see, that's a much more significant increase in dmg output, even when taking into account 70% max crit rate, and that's just with one Mariudeth's LS. Maxwell's LS is even more insane at 125% crit dmg boost AND elemental weakness dmg boost, which is another multiplier. Mere %ATK LS simply don't even come close to working for OTK teams.
Compare that to a 100% crit dmg LS, where the same unit goes from 870% dmg on crit (580 x 1.5 normal crit mod) to 1450% dmg on crit (580 x (1.5 + 1) crit mod). As you can see, that's a much more significant increase in dmg output, even when taking into account 70% max crit rate, and that's just with one Mariudeth's LS. Maxwell's LS is even more insane at 125% crit dmg boost AND elemental weakness dmg boost, which is another multiplier. Mere %ATK LS simply don't even come close to working for OTK teams.
Shouta
Member
Yeah, it looks like they just add the attack % to the Brave Burst modifier instead of doing what you would think percentage would do, i.e. increase the attack stat. Increasing the attack stat would be more potent and would be a fairer comparison depending on what buff was being compared to what but the way they do it basically makes any additional attack that isn't actually adding numbers to your value useless.
The problem lies in how the defense portion of the mechanic comes into play. Since you only get 1/3rd of it applied against that atk portion, if the atk kept on multiplying, the defense portion would get outscaled way too quickly. Although, defense ignore also exists (why do we have weakness again? Oh yeah, to give reason to have status immunity, since removal only matters if the effect doesn't occur during the enemies' turn)...
That said though, if you have room for it and you aren't sacrificing a slot that could be occupied with a harder hitting/better utility unit, there isn't anything wrong with having some more +atk.
I find it curious that there is almost no push for heavier spark damage/application with teams except within FH.
I really need to set aside some time to do Maxwell. I just havent' had a chance but really enjoy using Max for those that put her as their leader
took out maxwell today too!
http://touchandswipe.github.io/bravefrontier/maxwellcounter.html
is a necessity.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bravefronti...epth_guide_to_a_successful_maxwell_trial_pt2/
is good.
I found the when to use damage mitigator in this thread to be better than the tool suggestion.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bravefrontier/comments/2kf5mf/when_to_use_a_damage_mitigators_bb_on_maxwell/
Something else I found out, sphereing your mitigator and getting him a stealth robe helps a ton (when below 50% hp won't get targeted by single hit attacks), because they won't be guarding during those turns and can easily get womped by dual destiny.
Having a grah alive during the revival loop really helps due to his BB adding darkness to the party.
Let me take out maxwell in 2 turns without a problem.
If anyone else needs any help 1squading ask while I still have this stuff fresh on my mind.
Don't remember the last game that wasn't an mmo that i've spend over 10 hours dedicated on 1 boss
http://touchandswipe.github.io/bravefrontier/maxwellcounter.html
is a necessity.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bravefronti...epth_guide_to_a_successful_maxwell_trial_pt2/
is good.
I found the when to use damage mitigator in this thread to be better than the tool suggestion.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bravefrontier/comments/2kf5mf/when_to_use_a_damage_mitigators_bb_on_maxwell/
Something else I found out, sphereing your mitigator and getting him a stealth robe helps a ton (when below 50% hp won't get targeted by single hit attacks), because they won't be guarding during those turns and can easily get womped by dual destiny.
Having a grah alive during the revival loop really helps due to his BB adding darkness to the party.
Let me take out maxwell in 2 turns without a problem.
If anyone else needs any help 1squading ask while I still have this stuff fresh on my mind.
Don't remember the last game that wasn't an mmo that i've spend over 10 hours dedicated on 1 boss
Birgitte2004
Member
There isn't?
Every Crit/Weakness party recommends Douglas/Luther/Elza for the spark buff.
huge rebalance update and more out in jp.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bravefrontier/comments/2m50am/update_notes_jp_13_november_2014/
6* karl looking good
Karl 6*
Cost: 30
Normal attacks - 12 hits, 2 DC
BB - 16 hits, 1 DC, 240% multiplier, 100 flat attack bonus., 20 cost
LS - BC fill on spark (1-2, 100%), BC fill when attacking (7, 100%)
SBB - 24 hits, 1 DC, 400% multiplier, 30% inherent BC drop, 100 flat attack bonus, 3 turn buffs to self (100% to ATK DEF REC), 15 cost
Stats (HP|ATK|DEF|REC) : 6300|2251|1862|1761
Imps: 750|400|200|300
Evo mats: Miracle Totem, 2x Water Totem, Metal Mimic, New Item - A crystal (There's one type for each mock/FH unit to evolve)
seems like a deemo with a less overkill LS, and naturally way better stats.
edit: reading through the list. some really great updates for pretty much all units to modern units BC drop rates, and with really good buffs for sefia and kikuri might make mono dark/mono light meta super viable again.
Props for Gumi for doing this, because they didn't have to, and instead keep funneling people to RS more.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bravefrontier/comments/2m50am/update_notes_jp_13_november_2014/
6* karl looking good
Karl 6*
Cost: 30
Normal attacks - 12 hits, 2 DC
BB - 16 hits, 1 DC, 240% multiplier, 100 flat attack bonus., 20 cost
LS - BC fill on spark (1-2, 100%), BC fill when attacking (7, 100%)
SBB - 24 hits, 1 DC, 400% multiplier, 30% inherent BC drop, 100 flat attack bonus, 3 turn buffs to self (100% to ATK DEF REC), 15 cost
Stats (HP|ATK|DEF|REC) : 6300|2251|1862|1761
Imps: 750|400|200|300
Evo mats: Miracle Totem, 2x Water Totem, Metal Mimic, New Item - A crystal (There's one type for each mock/FH unit to evolve)
seems like a deemo with a less overkill LS, and naturally way better stats.
edit: reading through the list. some really great updates for pretty much all units to modern units BC drop rates, and with really good buffs for sefia and kikuri might make mono dark/mono light meta super viable again.
Props for Gumi for doing this, because they didn't have to, and instead keep funneling people to RS more.
Looking at the list those updates should make a lot of those old units "good" pulls again.
Looking forward to seeing what they do with the other new 6 stars now that we've seen Karl.
I meant with the leader skill as well. The crit damage enhancement just happens to be unique to leader skills by comparison along with elemental weakness damage.
Yeah seriously, some bombs were dropped. Kikuri got a big push. Karl looks like a beast too.
Folks are saying the next four GGC dungeons are really rough even with a damage mitigator and suggesting that the current batch of units are useful for the unique atk down debuff that two of them have.
Oh yeah, next batch of units is up in the RS gate.... Dual element buffers with various other perks. Lore wise, they solo'd the EX dungeon mobs.
If that's Karl, just imagine Grah. ><;
Getting the unique evo material isn't going to be easy either.
Shouta
Member
I meant seria but you didn't get my edited version. =P
Also, Fiora, Lucca, and Yujeh are up in the summon.
I really wish they'd bring back that super ultra, awesome Honor Summon Gate. i want more Crystal Gods and burst frogs. This 150+ honor summons is burning a hole in my pocket. =(
Also, Fiora, Lucca, and Yujeh are up in the summon.
I really wish they'd bring back that super ultra, awesome Honor Summon Gate. i want more Crystal Gods and burst frogs. This 150+ honor summons is burning a hole in my pocket. =(
Pulled for new unit today, ended up getting Ulkina (A). Considering I wanted her last baych, I'm pretty happy with that! A healer to eventually replace my tried and true Phoenix...
Returns on the 21st. I look forward to it too!
Returns on the 21st. I look forward to it too!
Man, you had to suffer a long time then if Phoenix had to prop up your team when you got hurt. I'm sure you will feel that upgrade immediately.
Mine too. I was really trying to hold out for sphere frogs maybe making their way into the honor summons gate, but I have far too many units that need a solid BB push up. Non-stop farming for days to maybe get 1 unit unlocked, never mind maxed out is a bit much when I have 10 or so units that need love atm.
Haha, yup, no Altri or Elimo for me! First Maria, then Phoenix. Such a pain in FH, especially since I had no personal damage mitigators for the last one. Afterwards, I recently got/leveled up a Rashil, which was oddly slow going, but he's helped me lots through the newest free unit dungeons. As he maxes (no SBB yet tho), Ulkina appears!
I'm full of anti-status effects now though (Exvhel, Narza, Melchio, and now Ulkina.)
Nice pull. I have him on my JP game and he has proven to be really useful.
Gonna PSA a little in case you or anyone else has forgotten, but the discounted summon tickets starting last friday are still up and should be refreshed tomorrow if you haven't gotten one already, you should do so ASAP. It will be at the bottom of the listing like usual and should be marked as "disconted summon ticket week 1".
500 points just like last time around.
Well don't give up! Lol.
70 points per day, 7 days in a week is 490 points. It is a realisitic goal if you have time to drop with the game. ^_^;
I mean besides, they added new reward tiers anyhow, so there isn't much of a reason to really avoid them on purpose.
Just made enough for tomorrows ticket + 2 burst frog reward myself. Alongside the 30 days of gems + a free gem every 7 days and these new vortex dungeons, thats such a healthy amount of free pulls / space expansions.
As long as you avoid burning them on continues...
As long as you avoid burning them on continues...
zerokoolpsx
Member
Will have 490 bp tomorrow. Will have it Saturday for that summon ticket. I always did the daily task every time they are up. Are the new rare summons any good?
Been trying to get Anima versions of the vortex units. Still need Rhein and Aneil.
Been trying to get Anima versions of the vortex units. Still need Rhein and Aneil.
It depends on what you need.
All of them provide elemental buffs to two elements. ... Ok shoot I'm gonna need to grab the data other pulled because I don't think a simple summary works out good here.
http://www.reddit.com/r/bravefrontier/comments/2k4zpn/new_jp_batch_datamine/
Fire
6* Artwork
Basic attack: 10 hits, 20 drop checks total
Lord Stats: 6132 HP / 2141 ATK / 1722 DEF / 2135 REC
LS: Random ailments (10% Injury/Sickness/Weakness, 7% Poison/Curse/Paralysis), Lifesteal (50% proc, 3-8% damage dealt is healed)
BB: 25BC, +240% damage, AoE 11 hits, fire/thunder buff 3 turns
SBB: 40BC, +400% damage, AoE 16 hits, fire/thunder buff 3 turns, 30% chance to reduce enemy ATK 50% for 1 turn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Water
6* Artwork
Basic attack: 14 hits, 28 drop checks total
Lord Stats: 6407 HP / 1927 ATK / 1914 DEF / 1914 REC
LS: 30% HP, 30% chance to heal 15-20% of damage taken
BB: 25BC, +240% damage, AoE 17 hits, water/earth buff 3 turns
SBB: 40BC, +400% damage, AoE 20 hits, water/earth buff 3 turns, +100% DEF buff 3 turns
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earth
6* Artwork
Basic attack: 8 hits, 24 drop checks total
Lord Stats: 6283 HP / 2089 ATK / 2022 DEF / 1757 REC
LS: Reduce BB cost (15%), regen 2 BC/turn
BB: 25BC, +240% damage, AoE 14 hits, earth/water buff 3 turns
SBB*: 40BC, +400% damage, AoE 19 hits, earth/water buff 3 turns, +100% ATK buff 3 turns
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thunder
6* Artwork
Basic attack: 12 hits, 24 drop checks total
Lord Stats: 6162 HP / 2035 ATK / 1882 DEF / 2029 REC
LS: BC fill when attacked (2-4 BC), 30% BB fill rate
BB: 25BC, +240% damage, AoE 14 hits, fire/thunder buff 3 turns
SBB: 40BC, +400% damage, AoE 17 hits, fire/thunder buff 3 turns, +50% crit buff
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light
6* Artwork
Basic attack: 12 hits, 24 drop checks total
Lord Stats: 6004 HP / 1792 ATK / 2121 DEF / 2190 REC
LS: +50% ATK if 5 elements in squad, BB consumption reduction (15-20%)
BB: 25BC, +240% damage, AoE 16 hits, light/dark buff 3 turns
SBB: 40BC, +400% damage, AoE 21 hits, light/dark buff 3 turns, regen 3 turns (1800-2100 + 10% REC)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dark
6* Artwork
Basic attack: 12 hits, 24 drop checks total
Lord Stats: 6211 HP / 2300 ATK / 1843 DEF / 1755 REC
LS: +50% ATK if 5 elements in squad, BB cost reduction (15%)
BB: 25BC, +240% damage, AoE 16 hits, light/dark buff 3 turns
SBB: 40BC, +400% damage, AoE 18 hits, light/dark buff 3 turns, 30% chance to reduce enemy ATK 50% for 1 turn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Much in the same way xerte summarized, there is a new unique debuff here with the fire and dark units which stacks with everything else. Low chance to stick, but if BB gen is sufficient to spam, then it could be very signifigant in controlling damage output. This would place the fire and dark units in a potential need catagory.
The fire unit also mirrors vishra and nalmika in LS.
The thunder one combines a mini lily matah LS along with the 50% crit buff, which I think will make the unit very popular with folks in general.
Earth probably won't seem as interesting given that Miku already exists and the old units will be getting buffed up to roughly those levels. She does give an argument to skip on using michele with the dual element shift and atk buff though, or rather a michele option not shoehorned into only fighting earth units or avoiding water (I still like kuda better though for the generalist buffs).
The water unit does seem like an interesting choice for boss style fights in both boosting HP by 30% and giving the chance to heal back damage inflicted. This would be opposed to a smaller HP boost with a damage mitigation chance or a weak regen effect per turn. The Defense boost is a nice bonus on top of that, but a better sustain effect or direct heal probably would have created more of a synergy on this character.
I could easily see newer hard content being tackled with the water unit as lead and either the fire or dark unit supporting it alongside a traditional damage mitigator and healer while leaving the last slot open for BB maintenence because we are probably going to need to spam the skills every turn on content that is actually hard enough to require that sort of thing.
Those would go well with the 5 guardian reeds I got, 3 lords, 1 breaker, and 1 oracle... No anima for me. QQ
SparksterMeta0
Member
It took me 2 gems, unfortunately, but I captured the earth unit Aneil on my first run.
Jeez these guys are tough, even with a mono team.
Jeez these guys are tough, even with a mono team.
Aye, feels good after getting stomped around by Grand Gaia Chronicles, and having bad pulls (3 stars from Shida's eventually good batch) for the last 2 weeks.
They're certainly really odd. If anything, for me, the way to beat them seems to be loading up one 1 or 2 strong Single Target BB / SBB users, and killing the main threat first.
I hear the light one also resist / nulls crit, too, so even more tricks to kick usual team dynamics around.
It does, so the dual maxwell approach is going to hit a wall rapidly when he gets let out. I'm guessing that's going to be a long and annoying fight considering his BB (normally) involves damage reduction and defense for 3 turns, while also being immune to status effects innately via leader skill.
That fight most likely will be Eric's time to shine (deemo and azazel too). I'll probably use my maxwell team and just try to straight tank it out. I'm leery about it though. On my JP account, I was no where near ready to fight this particular batch and just got roflstomped.