LaserBuddha
Member
Xater said:
Walt is just pragmatic.
The endangerment of someone else's child, versus the guaranteed death of him and his entire family?
If only my conscious would let me make such a logical choice.
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Breaking Bad - Season 4 - Sundays on AMC
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Walt is just pragmatic.
The endangerment of someone else's child, versus the guaranteed death of him and his entire family?
If only my conscious would let me make such a logical choice.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
peterb0y said:
See those two things you listed are basically what made me not like the episode much. What you call nitpicking I call pointing out major inconsistencies. The frenetic ending 2 episodes ago was amazing, and then it turned out to be all for nothing. Walt ended up saying "I'm the real target, my family isn't in danger" and then stayed at his house just fine for over a day, making a pipe bomb and poison out of a plant and finding a way to make a small child ingest it. Then Gus let his (conveniently added in) ties to Salamanca's past get in the way of the bigger problem. And if he suspected a car bomb, how did he not suspect anything with this?
la flama blanca
Banned
So if Gus is dead and apparently couldn't be killed by the Don because he was some kind of big deal in Chile....I wonder if someone from his past will come back and try to exact some revenge?
LaserBuddha
Member
Juancho9 said:
I don't recall him being some big deal in Chile. I seem to recall him being a nothing who immigrated to the U.S. and built an empire from nothing.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Din Eladio mentions it. Although the writers apparently have no idea what's up with him.LaserBuddha said:
Also, I can't wait to see what they do with Walt's mum, if anything.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
LaserBuddha said:
To be honest, I'm thinking the same thing, Walt probably knew that this wouldnt kill the kid, and if I had to choose btw endangering as you say, but not killing someone's else kid or losing my family, I wouldn't think twice, of course if this was an extreme situation.
I feel I'm going to get hammered here, but I think this would be the choice of many.
brianjones
Member
joshcryer said:
isn't inaction in itself an action
*bongo drums breaking bad opening*
I haven't read any impressions yet, and just finished watching it, but wanted to come in and say I was pretty meh on the whole episode until the final reveal.... JESUS CHRIST. That is all. I never read this thread that much so I never saw the plant reveal coming, and never thought Walt would do that, which made it even more incredible. I am kind of pissed they offed Gus all already, he's an amazing tv villain and I'm not sure where they go from here, but goddamn dat ending.
la flama blanca
Banned
I guess I just assumed he was considering Don Eladio mentioned not being able to kill him because he "knew who he was". Also, in one of the interviews posted above, Vince talks about not imagining seeing the last of Gus...LaserBuddha said:
LaserBuddha
Member
midonnay said:
!!!
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Juancho9 said:
I highly doubt that. Like I said earlier...that whole scene where Gus has that clairvoyance is a Godsend for Walt as it conveniently set up the pieces for Walt to make Gus' and Tios rivalry look like a beef between two cartels. Walt and Jesse seem to be pretty much in the clear. (Unless Gus recorded some sort of evidence that shows Jesse or Walt, but being that careful of a man, I doubt that too.)
Black Mamba
Member
Loved the episode.
I think at this point we can just stop wondering if Walt is breaking bad. He's just bad, now. Besides the child and old lady neighbor, he manipulates Jesse to do his bidding again.
Gus gave Jesse confidence. He gave him a purpose. Walt undermined all of it.
They kind of have an open slate for next season. We know a couple things have to be answered, but how they approach it is wide fucking open.
I think at this point we can just stop wondering if Walt is breaking bad. He's just bad, now. Besides the child and old lady neighbor, he manipulates Jesse to do his bidding again.
Gus gave Jesse confidence. He gave him a purpose. Walt undermined all of it.
They kind of have an open slate for next season. We know a couple things have to be answered, but how they approach it is wide fucking open.
LaserBuddha
Member
midonnay said:j/k
You might be right though.
Net_Wrecker
Member
ROFL @ the Terminator Gus scene. I'm not sure how to feel about that. On one hand it was straight up goofy, but then I remember the turtle head from way back when.
In any case WHATAFINALE!!
In any case WHATAFINALE!!
LaserBuddha
Member
Come on people, Walt isn't a sociopath. Walt has all the traits of someone who isn't a sociopath.
Walt has just been hardened. He's learned that feeling sorry for yourself and playing the nice guy isn't going to keep the world from running you over, so you've got to do what you've got to do to survive.
The worst thing Walt has ever done was have a guy killed (Gale) to save his own life. A life for a life, him or me.
Jessie's girlfriend's death was, as far as Walt was concerned, an alternative to both of them killing themselves with heroin.
Other things (such as poisoning Brock) were a (possible) sacrifice of one for the survival of many.
Walt has just been hardened. He's learned that feeling sorry for yourself and playing the nice guy isn't going to keep the world from running you over, so you've got to do what you've got to do to survive.
The worst thing Walt has ever done was have a guy killed (Gale) to save his own life. A life for a life, him or me.
Jessie's girlfriend's death was, as far as Walt was concerned, an alternative to both of them killing themselves with heroin.
Other things (such as poisoning Brock) were a (possible) sacrifice of one for the survival of many.
Holy shit someone on Reddit lost a bet that Walt poisoned Brock and actually drank his own piss:
nsfw obviously
http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad...tching_episode_12_i_am_convinced_that/c2pa3rx
nsfw obviously
http://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad...tching_episode_12_i_am_convinced_that/c2pa3rx
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
cacophony said:
*Queue Breaking Bad intro*
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Conan O Brien's prediction for the finale was wrong.
Whomever has one of those Twits, tell him he was outwitted by Mr. White. Everything went according to plan.
EDIT:
ConradCervantes
Banned
I just retched watching that video. Fucking gross. At least he is a man of his word.
brianjones
Member
finale was so bad people are trying to kill themselves by drinking their own urine
Ok, so let's get this straight. In this episode (and JUST this episode) Walt:
- Had his nice, friendly, completely innocent neighbour walk into his house, which he suspected had people inside who wanted to kill him and might not wait to see who was opening the door before killing them.
- Brought a bomb into a hospital.
- Brought said bomb also into a nursing home, and then blew up a room in it, without regard for the other people in the nursing home.
- Poisoned a child with something that left him on the edge of death.
- Lied to his 'partner' and the only person on the planet who seems to still think he's anything but a cold calculating asshole and isn't related to him by blood. And not in a small way, either. In a "I just about killed the kid you're starting to feel like a father to, just to coerce you into killing someone who never actually did anything to you."
Can we consider the question of Walt's lack of conscience a closed book now? PLEASE? The guy will do *anything* to get his way, without regard for innocents in the way.
This is a joke post, right?
- Had his nice, friendly, completely innocent neighbour walk into his house, which he suspected had people inside who wanted to kill him and might not wait to see who was opening the door before killing them.
- Brought a bomb into a hospital.
- Brought said bomb also into a nursing home, and then blew up a room in it, without regard for the other people in the nursing home.
- Poisoned a child with something that left him on the edge of death.
- Lied to his 'partner' and the only person on the planet who seems to still think he's anything but a cold calculating asshole and isn't related to him by blood. And not in a small way, either. In a "I just about killed the kid you're starting to feel like a father to, just to coerce you into killing someone who never actually did anything to you."
Can we consider the question of Walt's lack of conscience a closed book now? PLEASE? The guy will do *anything* to get his way, without regard for innocents in the way.
LaserBuddha said:
This is a joke post, right?
Net_Wrecker
Member
cacophony said:
Jesus, that scene was goofy as hell :lol. It's memorable to be sure, but I could've done without the tie adjustment. Totally over the top.
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
It's odd that he would choose Lilly of the Valley, which can potentially be deadly, rather than something like syrup of ipecac which just induces vomiting.
But then he would need something that affects the heart and that is immediately accessible so I guess that his best option...
Still how did he even drug Brock? He might have had half a day really between when Gus "fired" him and when Jesse busted into his house. In that time, he has to figure out a way to lace the food of a kid he doesn't know the schedule of? And in such a way that only the kid gets sick, rather than his mother and certainly not Jesse.
That's the best part, it convinces you that he is totally alive until the camera pans around.
But then he would need something that affects the heart and that is immediately accessible so I guess that his best option...
Still how did he even drug Brock? He might have had half a day really between when Gus "fired" him and when Jesse busted into his house. In that time, he has to figure out a way to lace the food of a kid he doesn't know the schedule of? And in such a way that only the kid gets sick, rather than his mother and certainly not Jesse.
Net_Wrecker said:
That's the best part, it convinces you that he is totally alive until the camera pans around.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I finally caught up to the latest episode.... it was an important one
That ending....
That ending....
maharg said:
Gus didnt do anything to Jesse >_<?
Also, he did try to save Hank, who was innocent, thusly refuting your final point! Also he is a chemist so he probably knew how to make the bomb well enough to just kill the people in the room.
And also his chemical genius meant he probably knew exactly how much poison to give the kid.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Next season's opening reveals that Walt Jr. is Brock's chemistry teacher. Walt Jr. is like "Hey Brock, you want some b-b-berries?!"
cacophony said:
if you watch that scene in HD you can see the stem of the eye move around when he looks around.
i wonder how the last season will go. it's obvious that walt is insane and will completely lose it but the close up on the chicken air freshener seemed like a hint. maybe gus has a brother or someone that will be out for revenge. then when everyone else turns on him he's as good as dead.
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Lets not get carried away, the neighbour thing was a bit cold, but I think it's one of those things where he doesnt think about the consequences, you can see and hear how relieved he is when she calls him and tells him everything's fine.
The bomb in the nursing home, he probably rigged it to blow up only one room, you can see that it only blows up the room, so a small explosion.
"Who never actually did anything to him'?! Seriously?! Are we forgetting here that at the end of Season 3, Gus was planning on killing BOTH Jesse and Walt, yep, that's right, so even though Gus was pretty cool with Jesse since Walt was out of the lab, he could have found some day another cook and get rid of Jesse.
For the kid, Walt did what he had to do to get Jesse on his side, and he probably knew that the poison wouldnt kill Brock.
Once again, I don't consider him as a monster, he simply went to extremes. Imagine yourself being in such a situation. I would save my ass with any way possible, and we can see he's limiting the casualties, he planned it really well. Everything he did, he did for good reasons.
The bomb in the nursing home, he probably rigged it to blow up only one room, you can see that it only blows up the room, so a small explosion.
"Who never actually did anything to him'?! Seriously?! Are we forgetting here that at the end of Season 3, Gus was planning on killing BOTH Jesse and Walt, yep, that's right, so even though Gus was pretty cool with Jesse since Walt was out of the lab, he could have found some day another cook and get rid of Jesse.
For the kid, Walt did what he had to do to get Jesse on his side, and he probably knew that the poison wouldnt kill Brock.
Once again, I don't consider him as a monster, he simply went to extremes. Imagine yourself being in such a situation. I would save my ass with any way possible, and we can see he's limiting the casualties, he planned it really well. Everything he did, he did for good reasons.
blame space
Banned
reddit is the worst thing on the internet
adversesolutions
Member
So has anyone brought up the brief close-up of the Salamanca family photo in Tio's room? It was Tio with the two twins and one older kid. Was the older kid Tuco? Or somebody else?
Perhaps a wild Salamanca is out there...?
Perhaps a wild Salamanca is out there...?
THE-Pink-Dagger
Member
Cohsae said:
That too, but he had good reasons to do it.
-Stranger-
Junior Member
Fucking amazing episode, gonna be a long wait until season 5.
That scene with Gus was awesome
That scene with Gus was awesome
THE-Pink-Dagger said:
Oh for fuck's sake.
If I could ride a dinosaur I might ride it in a band leader's uniform.
Walt is in this 'extreme situation' because he put himself there. Everyone else in his life is there because he dragged them there. I wouldn't *be* in Walt's position because I'm not completely lacking a conscience, and I say that as someone who genuinely believes in some form of moral relativism.
And no, I wouldn't poison a child. Period. I sure as fuck wouldn't do it as part of some cold and calculated plan to become the biggest dirtbag on the criminal pile. He's done nothing for good reasons, and everything for selfish reasons.
It seriously worries me that anyone could possibly sympathize with Walt after this episode. If you think you're capable of doing the things Walt has done, I really genuinely worry about you.
Also, I think some people are confusing chemists with biologists. Walt may know exactly how much of this poison to put someone on the brink of death without killing them (knowledge I hesitate to believe anyone could even have, given the imprecise nature of the human body), but we have no reason to believe that.
He gambled with the kid's life and he won. But let's not kid ourselves, he basically attempted to murder a child.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
This is the first time I've been caught up on the show, so it's the first time I could ever discuss this show with anyone. I agree with Bryan Cranston on this: the show puts the moral dilemma on the viewer, and doesn't actually spell it out in objective terms through the narrative itself.maharg said:
My view is that Walt has made entirely logical decisions in the aim of protecting both his family, and at times, protecting Jessie.
Poisoning a kid is vile.. but the whole point of Lilly of the Valley not being Risen, is that Walt knew that it would not kill.
Non-lethally poisoning a kid vs. Your wife dead, your son dead, your infant daughter dead, etc? Suddenly it almost becomes logical.
It's dark. Very dark. But I can see why he did it.
Black Mamba
Member
i like the lengths people go to try to delude themselves into thinking walt's a-ok.
Nevermind that the only reason Hank was a target was because of Walt's direct interaction with Hank and that Gus one time saved Hank's life.
Or that Gus had to kill Walt because of Walt's own stupid actions.
But what I don't get is why people think Gus being bad is like something bad about the show. The show is called Breaking Bad. It's about a regular Joe becoming a really bad person and what that means. Accept that he's bad. It's the god damned point of the show!
You are missing out on some of the themes trying to be conveyed by not accepting it, IMO.
Nevermind that the only reason Hank was a target was because of Walt's direct interaction with Hank and that Gus one time saved Hank's life.
Or that Gus had to kill Walt because of Walt's own stupid actions.
But what I don't get is why people think Gus being bad is like something bad about the show. The show is called Breaking Bad. It's about a regular Joe becoming a really bad person and what that means. Accept that he's bad. It's the god damned point of the show!
You are missing out on some of the themes trying to be conveyed by not accepting it, IMO.
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