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Breaking Bad - Season 4 - Sundays on AMC

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Nah, we weren't supposed to fully sympathize with Walt back in season 1 or 2 either. It has never been that simple. Understanding his actions and being fascinated by them is completely different than supporting them and rooting them on.

Obviously. But you've ignored the substance of my post.

Not saying anything about anyone in particular, but I'd just like to point out "I liked female character X in Y" is about as good a defence against misogyny as "some of my best friends are gay" is to homophobia.

Once again, you've completely ignored the bulk of my post. Fine, that was perhaps a foolish comparison to make on my part, but my point stands - I am not misogynistic, and I actively dislike the character of Skyler. So am I justified in this attitude?
 

Puddles

Banned
Not saying anything about anyone in particular, but I'd just like to point out "I liked female character X in Y" is about as good a defence against misogyny as "some of my best friends are gay" is to homophobia.

Nor does the fact that some people dislike her for problematic reasons mean that everyone who dislikes her does so for problematic reasons. But if "bitch" is a word you use in your explanation, you might want to ask yourself some questions about your attitudes towards women who don't put up with their husbands' shit.

What if this hateful attitude is only directed towards women who fuck Ted?
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Man, in reading a lot of comments on the show recently I'm really surprised at the number of people that hate Walt. He's done some awful things that would get me to turn on most characters but the fact that the show still has me liking him and rooting for him after all that is what I consider to be one of its greatest strengths.

Weighing in on the misogyny discussion, for me it's just the type of people that Skylar and Marie are, the fact that they're women has nothing to do with it. They remind me of a lot of people, men and women, that I try to distance myself from in real life with the way they react to everything and hadle most of their interactions. I can easily associate with their emotional states but the way they handle them just drives me nuts. I will say both of them have gotten a lot better in the recent seasons, at least until Skylar gave all the money away and accidentally killed Ted. Marie is significantly better than she was in the first couple seasons.
 

Jimothy

Member
Man, in reading a lot of comments on the show recently I'm really surprised at the number of people that hate Walt. He's done some awful things that would get me to turn on most characters but the fact that the show still has me liking him and rooting for him after all that is what I consider to be one of its greatest strengths.

Poisoning Brock made him a completely unredeemable person, imo.
 

kehs

Banned
Poisoning Brock made him a completely unredeemable person, imo.

Brock was pretty annoying.

"ooh candy"


sidenote: Holy shit Saul gave Brock candy directly!


So when people happen to dislike the two female characters on the show (for the record, I actually like Marie, but I don't like Skyler), it's the fault of misogyny, not (bad) writing?

The reason I put bad in brackets is because the writing fully intended, for at least all of seasons 1 and 2, for the audience to sympathise with Walt, and thus dislike characters who opposed him, e.g. Skyler. Now that she's more complicit in his activities, lots of people like her, but I happen still to find her irritating. Partly due to Anna Gunn (didn't enjoy her in Deadwood either), partly due to writing, but not at all due to misogyny.

I could buy that argument if Carrie wasn't my favourite part of Homeland, Claudette one of my favourite parts of The Shield, etc.

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that the writers "don't know how to write female roles" and I disagree with that entirely. Nobody every criticizes Jr's character via "bad writing" they just do it through br- br- breakfast.

I think Marie/Skyler were always small characters in terms of plot, but I can't help but notice that turns into "Skyler is a bitch" easier than "what a throwaway character".

The "bad woman writing" popping up in Breaking Bad is a bit disingenuous since the show is always heralded with amazing writing.
 

Carbonox

Member
603424_10151020482147722_1563181998_n.jpg

Jesse looks like what Albert Wesker would look like if Resident Evil got a DmC-style reboot. Shit he would actually be Vergil in DmC.
 

pigeon

Banned
Second, why is Walter the one stirring up his own trouble? Wouldn't the most realistic thing be for trouble to find him? Like he tries to make a clean break, but he can't because of some as yet unknown entity. He has to be a boss and a badass, I get that, but doesn't Walt still have some flaws which make him vulnerable as a criminal? Like his tendency to over-analyze things, or to overreach.

Finally, why are events getting bigger? This isn't 24. This is a show about great characters, not epic scenarios. Every time I hear someone from the cast describe the show, they use the word "Crazy." Whenever someone describes a show that way, I cringe, because it smacks of a knowledge of events that will ring false when the smoke clears. This show needs dark, quiet and brooding, with bursts of suspense, not "bigger, badder, better!"

Both of these are things that have been happening since the first season, though. Walt always creates trouble for himself, and he almost always does it by trying to expand. Partly this is his deathwish, partly his inability to back down, and partly he just wants to be a success.
 

Tigel

Member
I'm debating whether or not it buying an iTunes season pass for season 5. Is there a significant delay between the episode showing on TV and its release on iTunes?
 

Dany

Banned
I'm debating whether or not it buying an iTunes season pass for season 5. Is there a significant delay between the episode showing on TV and its release on iTunes?
Nope, it's on iTunes around 2 AM Monday. So it will be their the next morning
 
Not saying anything about anyone in particular, but I'd just like to point out "I liked female character X in Y" is about as good a defence against misogyny as "some of my best friends are gay" is to homophobia.

Nor does the fact that some people dislike her for problematic reasons mean that everyone who dislikes her does so for problematic reasons. But if "bitch" is a word you use in your explanation, you might want to ask yourself some questions about your attitudes towards women who don't put up with their husbands' shit.
you have to understand, how many times do we have to say that it's hard to put into words. She isn't being a bitch per se. I've stated that I'm completely and absolutely not talking about specific things she has said to walt, or done in general (like fucking ted). It's completely 100% about her as a person and her tone and just the way she is. Simple as that. It has zero, nada, nothing to do with anything other than that. It rubs people the wrong way. It just does.

No misogyny bullshit, no nothing. The reason I brought up other characters was to MAKE THAT VERY POINT. That it has nothing to do with her being a bitch to walt, or being a bitch in general, Jane was a bitch to walt, Carmela was a bitch to Tony, etc...but they don't rub me the wrong way at all. Skyler just has that effect.
 

NGAMER9

Member
I just can't stand when Skyler does that wide-eyed, incredulous look that she seems to pull out three times an episode. I'm not sure why, but I hate it, probably because it comes up so often and it is absolutely not how one would actually act if they were shocked, or surprised, or appalled or whatever.

That and her actions with the car wash were nonsensical. "Why can't we buy this laser tag place, or anywhere else?" "Because I said so, now hurry up and cook up a ridiculous plan where we pretend he's in violation of city codes and spend entire episodes on this nonsense."

Walt isn't a great guy, but he's a lot more interesting as a character, obviously, and that's what counts for a show like this. The stupid actions aren't exclusive to Skyler, but that's why most of the characters are meant to be hated, or become anti-heros and antagonists. I don't know how anyone here can really justify that Walt was correct in his actions, but for the most part you can see where they come from, and that's the reason the show is so fun.
 
Yeah you can tell the intent wasn't to kill the kid, only use him as a pawn, but at the same time wasn't sure how it would completely work out. Seemed relieved. Then again he is such an evil genius these days it could have been pro-acting. Impossible to know.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Yeah you can tell the intent wasn't to kill the kid, only use him as a pawn, but at the same time wasn't sure how it would completely work out. Seemed relieved. Then again he is such an evil genius these days it could have been pro-acting. Impossible to know.

He knew he could have killed Brock. He may not have desired his death, but that doesn't make him moral. His actual death would have been counterproductive to his aims and his ability to control Jesse. But he was willing to gamble a child's life to save his own and that's a pretty clear cut amoral position to take in any society anyone posting on this forum lives in.
 
He knew he could have killed Brock. He may not have desired his death, but that doesn't make him moral. His actual death would have been counterproductive to his aims and his ability to control Jesse. But he was willing to gamble a child's life to save his own and that's a pretty clear cut amoral position to take in any society anyone posting on this forum lives in.
and gladly, no one is arguing otherwise. Doesn't mean he wasn't relieved the kid didn't die.
 

maharg

idspispopd
If you take his relief as evidence of his being a good, but desperate, person at his core, you're disagreeing with me.
 

TripOpt55

Member
Anyone have a link (not sure if there is one) to the scene with Mike's shootout in the truck? I think it was the opening to Bullet Points.
 
Finally, why are events getting bigger? This isn't 24. This is a show about great characters, not epic scenarios. Every time I hear someone from the cast describe the show, they use the word "Crazy." Whenever someone describes a show that way, I cringe, because it smacks of a knowledge of events that will ring false when the smoke clears. This show needs dark, quiet and brooding, with bursts of suspense, not "bigger, badder, better!"

And what are you hoping this suspense builds up to? There has to be events, and there's no reason these events can't be awe-inspiring.

Of course it's very character-driven, but the characters are what makes this show "crazy" as Jesse puts it.
 
yep. gilligan has never tried to get us to root for walt and he's repeatedly said so.

Gilligan is a genius would be the reason. He's cast an amazing range of characters to root for or dislike. It's entirely up to the viewer to make that decision. Some people may want Walt to come out on top, some people may choose Hank or vice versa. But the point of the show primarily being about Walt's transformation will remain.
 
I could see Walt doing something in season 5 to stop pretty much any viewer rooting for him.
I think it's eventually gonna come to a point where he puts himself over his own family.
 
yep. gilligan has never tried to get us to root for walt and he's repeatedly said so.

What a load of crap.

There was a link to an interview that was posted after Season 4 where he stated the intent is definitely to push Walter as far as they can. He's said Walter isn't a good guy at this point of the show but he's never ever said that the viewers shouldn't be supporting him or liking him.

The matter of fact is the protagonist (or anti-hero or whatever the fuck you want to call him) of the show is still Walter White. The show has been filmed in a way we like him, even though he HAS done a lot of stuff that can be considered evil. We find a way to connect with him. Its no different than Tony in the Sopranos, really. If the viewers hated Walter White, I doubt they would keep watching the show. I'll be honest, if I genuinely hated the protagonist of the show, the character that the show is based on, I doubt I would spend much time watching it. I don't necessarily have to root for Walter to keep committing these fucked up acts, but I can still connect with him or like him or be intrigued by him to some extent.
 

Nameless

Member
I could see Walt doing something in season 5 to stop pretty much any viewer rooting for him.
I think it's eventually gonna come to a point where he puts himself over his own family.

If standing idly watching a young woman choke on her own vomit or poisoning a child didn't stop me from pulling for W.W. I'm not sure what will.
 
If standing idly watching a young woman choke on her own vomit or poisoning a child didn't stop me from pulling for W.W. I'm not sure what will.

Well, he did do it to two characters that no one really cared about. If he kills a loved character, like Hank or Jesse, I could see a lot of people going against him.
 
I can't let myself like or sympathize with a television character because OH GOD what would Vince Gilligan think?! Vince Gilligan crafted an awesome show, so therefore he must dictate my opinions!
 
I can't let myself like or sympathize with a television character because OH GOD what would Vince Gilligan think?! Vince Gilligan crafted an awesome show, so therefore he must dictate my opinions!

Right on.

The thing is Vince said what they were trying do was to keep pushing Walt SO the viewers have a moral dilemma... Can I keep liking this guy even though he has done so much shit? He said that is their attempt.

So if Gilligan thinks viewers who like/root for Walter are dumb, that goes completely against the point of the fucking show as STATED by him.

Some people here need to get off of their high horses.
 

Nameless

Member
Well, he did do it to two characters that no one really cared about. If he kills a loved character, like Hank or Jesse, I could see a lot of people going against him.

Hank is cool. Ater W.W., Jesse, and Saul he might be the coolest character on the show. His death wouldn't be enough for me to flip on Team Heisenberg. I'm trying to think and it would probably take Walter White raping some woman or child for me to turn on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLWaqVbBvJ4

Impossible not to love this guy.
 

big ander

Member
SO many of you are completely ignoring the distinction between connecting with a character and cheering them on. Of course we feel connected with Walt and like the person he used to be, who hopefully is still inside somewhere. But that is the point: we're supposed to cheer for Walt to make the right decisions and he continually makes the wrong ones. like nearly killing a child or letting a person die when he could have easily saved them. Gilligan's goal with the show is to see how long he can get us to hold on to the Mr. Chips side of the character while he turns into Scarface.

We're supposed to want Walt to redeem himself because of what he used to be, not want him to rise to kingpin because of what he is now. We're not supposed to enjoy him emotionally abusing Skyler and Jesse.

I can't let myself like or sympathize with a television character because OH GOD what would Vince Gilligan think?! Vince Gilligan crafted an awesome show, so therefore he must dictate my opinions!
What does this post even mean? It just seems so dumb. Like, are you trying to argue that this is the way some people feel about every tv show? Or just that the sect of people that hate walt do so not because of what they've seen in the show but because of one answer in an interview? What do you even mean at all? Silly
 
Right on.

The thing is Vince said what they were trying do was to keep pushing Walt SO the viewers have a moral dilemma... Can I keep liking this guy even though he has done so much shit? He said that is their attempt.

So if Gilligan thinks viewers who like/root for Walter are dumb, that goes completely against the point of the fucking show as STATED by him.

Some people here need to get off of their high horses.

I don't think it's about being "dumb," it's about having the moral center of Damion Hellstrom. Walt does "bad ass" things, sure, but he's done so after being given, at least two times per season, a very clear and navigable out.

I personally believe he only pulled the trigger on Hadji's Quick Vanish because he thought he'd lost. Sure, he tried to warn Hank on the way out but he signed that death warrant himself at Hank's own dinner table, when he egged him further on into the case.

Obviously I still think Breaking Bad is a tremendous show, but if you can watch this scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLskwZEbkiE (fucking hate flipped videos but it's all I can find, unflipped version embedded here: http://insidetv.ew.com/2012/06/28/emmy-watch-aaron-paul-breaking-bad/)
and still think Walter is worth rooting for, personally, I think that requires a moral compromise I am not personally willing to make. And that's the nicest way I can put it.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
People are really back on the hating Skyler means you are a misogynist nonsense? Have we time traveled to season 1?
If you can't explain it beyond "lol shes a bitch" you probably aren't very smart
.

I just hate Skyler mostly because besides someone for Walt to say crazy shit to at times, every scene she is in is basically the worst scene of the episode. Both on an acting and a writing level. She's cowardly, indecisive, passive-aggressive, petty, and inconsistent in her actions. Qualities I hate in any man or woman fictional or real.
 
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