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[ezekial45]

LOL. Just who the hell do you think you are?

I keep asking myself this every time he gets all uppity.

Which is very often.

 

[metalslimer]

I find it so amazing that a show can get so many interpretations of the same character from people. It makes for interesting television. Trying to say someone's else interpretation is in no way right honestly takes a lot of life out of discussing these characters.

 

[maharg]

I find it so amazing that a show can get so many interpretations of the same character from people. It makes for interesting television. Trying to say someone's else interpretation is in no way right honestly takes a lot of life out of discussing these characters.

I'm not going to speak for anyone else here, but when I say what "Walt really is" or anything that can be interpreted that way, I mean what he is behind what he says and the facade he has built around him. I think people give too much credence to what he says and too little to what he does, and that there's a deliberate effort on the writers' part to cause viewers to perpetuate that mistake. It's *how* they achieve the goals they've described in interviews.

Also, a lot of the time people start piling on with what amounts to "I recognize that Walt has done evil things but I still want him to win," and those are not all the people I'm trying to convince. The people I'm trying to convince are the ones that believe Walt has genuinely been in the right in every move and decision he has made, and that he is not only a good provider for his family but also a moral person. And there are several people in this and other Breaking Bad threads who have expressed this viewpoint, it's not a strawman.

 

[Fry]

OK, how about this: Walt buys a gun at the beginning of season four. The dealer asks him if it really is for self-defense, and he says it is.

All I remember is he killing two bodyguards inside the lab to let Jesse free/burn it down. Do you think he was right or wrong for doing it?

Did he kill anyone else?

 

[tokkun]

One day prior to that occurrence, Walt killed two people to save Jesse's life. I think it was a fair trade.

Not to mention that this move put Walt in mortal danger. Just like he put himself in danger rather than selling out Hank to be murdered. But everyone seems to forget about these things when labeling him a monster.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm not going to speak for anyone else here, but when I say what "Walt really is" or anything that can be interpreted that way, I mean what he is behind what he says and the facade he has built around him. I think people give too much credence to what he says and too little to what he does, and that there's a deliberate effort on the writers' part to cause viewers to perpetuate that mistake. It's *how* they achieve the goals they've described in interviews.

Also, a lot of the time people start piling on with what amounts to "I recognize that Walt has done evil things but I still want him to win," and those are not all the people I'm trying to convince. The people I'm trying to convince are the ones that believe Walt has genuinely been in the right in every move and decision he has made, and that he is not only a good provider for his family but also a moral person. And there are several people in this and other Breaking Bad threads who have expressed this viewpoint, it's not a strawman.

Oh I completely disagree with anyone who thinks Walt has been completely right in all his decision making and that he's just some innocent bystander who happens to be in these awful situations. He actively makes bad decisions that puts him and everyone else in danger. I just think the things people point out that make him awful are the moral grey choices that any of us could have made. I think that's the genius of the writers of the show. They show Walt making morally questionable choices just enough for us to doubt him having some good intentions, but they never take it far enough to destroy his character completely. I don't think season 5 will change that. I think this is distinctly different from the sopranos

 

[shadyspace]

Not to mention that this move put Walt in mortal danger. Just like he put himself in danger rather than selling out Hank to be murdered. But everyone seems to forget about these things when labeling him a monster.

One could argue both of those decisions were more about pride than loyalty or care for those two.

 

[Puddles]

You mean the episode after he traded his son-figure's soul and had him murder an innocent just so he could live?

So that both of them could live.

If Gale survived, Jesse would have been buried in the desert inside of a week.

 

[tokkun]

One could argue both of those decisions were more about pride than loyalty or care for those two.

You might say that about saving Jesse, but I don't think there is much of a sense of pride being conveyed when Walt calls in the threat on Hank, then desperately scrambles to try to change his identity and escape.

 

[kehs]

Not to mention that this move put Walt in mortal danger. Just like he put himself in danger rather than selling out Hank to be murdered. But everyone seems to forget about these things when labeling him a monster.

All things that can be traced back directly to Walts decisions.

He's not being altruistic, he's attempting to rectify things he has set in motion.

 

[Amir0x]

LOL. Just who the hell do you think you are?

Someone who actually watches the show, apparently. Sometimes there is a right and a wrong answer in these discussions. People who think Walt is 'in over his head' or some little pussy who just happens to be accidentally stumbling into these situations are simply wrong, there's no gentler way to put it. There are literally at this point dozens of examples of Walt simply being a monster.

Now I listed quite a number of examples in the post which you pathetically dismissed, as is typically the case for the WW defenders because it isn't solvent with your worldview. That's unfortunately but there's no sugarcoating here.

If you view Walter White as some dude 'in over his head', that's quaint, but you're wrong.

It's Amirox doing his I'm right/you're wrong shtick.

Unfortunately for you, there is a right and a wrong in this discussion. People who think Walt is some bumbling me-too man who is just so far in over his head that there's no going back are simply wrong. Even by the showrunners own accounts, you're wrong.

Walt had multiple occasions to "get off the ride." Multiple. Not once, not twice, not three times. He has had somewhere in the order of at least five different occasions when he very truly could have gotten off the bus and saved his family, in the true sense of the word.

But he didn't. Because, as anyone who actually watches the show realizes, it's never been about saving his family. It is about Walter White's pride. And if something gets in the way of that, whether it puts his family in danger or not, he's going to strike back.

Put in some of the same situations Walter got put in, I honesty believe I would have done the same things. Of course yes it was Walt's monstrous pride that put him in those situations, but in the end he did make the decisions to save his family. Gus was going to stamp Walter and all of his family out. The only choice he could think of was to get Jesse on his side to stop Gus and that required poisoning Brock to do it. Was it a monstrous move that was done because of Walt's own pride and stupidity that led Jesse to turn on him and side with Gus? Yes? Was it also one of the only ways to save his family's ass? Yes.

If it was about his family he would have stopped this in SEASON ONE. How is it that some people fail to realize this? He could have taken the offer that those ex-co workers of his offered him. They would have paid for his medical treatments and given him a very cush salary. He turned it down. He turned down saving his family, because why? Because he had to sit in the restaurant and tell the lady to fuck off, because she was bruising his pride.

And this is one occasion. Time and time again, he has some small window of opportunity to get out of this world once and for all, but he didn't. Because his pride. Because he's a monster.

You keep trying to justify these actions of his, in the most painfully contrived fashion. It's actually more painful to see the contortions people try to make to try to make Walter White seem less monstrous than he actually is. The point is he never had to go in with Gus. He ended up with Gus because he couldn't let sleeping dogs lie, because his pride demanded that he kept trying to be more ambitious with his formula. He never had to get there.

Your defense of Walter White is like saying that some gangster who kills on orders of his fellow gang members is not truly a monster because, hey, it's the only thing he could have done in that situation - after all, they would have killed him! Yes, they would have killed him. But the point is by joining the gang that person has become complicit with that lifestyle. That he has made these choices and that those choices were wrong are undeniable; that he has become a monster is also beyond dispute. The same is true of Walter White.

I feel like this points needs to be emphasized again, since somehow it's conveniently ignored:

THIS is not about his family. If it was, he would have taken one of the four or five occasions to exit this world when he saw how dangerous it was. Remember, in the very first episode of the show Walter White got a taste of what those dangers implied: risk of life, risk of being outed and destroying your family, risk of the very financial stability you claim to be seeking. And in that first episode, was a string of events. After a little while, the show had various outs for him. He could have escaped. But he didn't. He didn't want to. He enjoyed people complimenting his formula; enjoyed the power that came with the world. He doesn't care about his family. He only cares about himself.

As to the Jane thing. If the same circumstances had happened where I was standing there watching my best friend who was about to kill himself with drugs, I can't honestly say that I would have saved Jane either.

Well it's a good thing you're so good at reading minds that you will condemn someone to death for some hypothetical influence they're going to have on your friends future likelihood to overdose. Instead of, ya know, just doing the right thing, saving the poor girl, and giving them both a chance to recover for good.

Some really fucking warped morality some people on GAF were taught growing up.

The real issue I have with Walt goes back to the decision to deny Gretchen's cancer funding. He had a chance to put an end to it all right there but chose not to do to pride.He also had the choice to deny Gus and not work in his laboratory to begin with. So, no I don't see Walt as some kind of monster who deliberately sets out to hurt people. I see him as having monstrous pride that is a danger to all those around him. For me, it's not about rooting for him when he makes dumb decisions. It's more about rooting somehow that he manages a way to not endanger people around him anymore.

So you see the various occasions when Walt had the opportunity to not horrifically endanger his family, and how he makes a conscious decision to ensure they're put in danger for the foreseeable future, and you somehow still think he isn't a monster? It is his pride which makes him a monster, that's true, but a monster he remains nonetheless.

Oh please, we all would have done the same thing as Walt. Jesse created that situation all by himself, and Walt bailed him out of it. And you could tell there was definite hesitation from Walt about doing that. He wasn't even going to make Jesse kill him , but he had no choice since they were both going to die otherwise.

Hahah, we all would have done the same as Walt?

Speak for your goddamn self. Some of us have a moral compass.

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

www.google.com

define:brevity

 

[tokkun]

All things that can be traced back directly to Walts decisions.

He's not being altruistic, he's attempting to rectify things he has set in motion.

I'm not sure it matters whether his motivation is altruism or a sense of moral obligation; either way it indicates that he has some moral nuance and is not simply an all-consumed egomaniacal monster.

 

[Slo]

Someone who actually watches the show, apparently. Sometimes there is a right and a wrong answer in these discussions. People who think Walt is 'in over his head' or some little pussy who just happens to be accidentally stumbling into these situations are simply wrong, there's no gentler way to put it. There are literally at this point dozens of examples of Walt simply being a monster.

Now I listed quite a number of examples in the post which you pathetically dismissed, as is typically the case for the WW defenders because it isn't solvent with your worldview. That's unfortunately but there's no sugarcoating here.

If you view Walter White as some dude 'in over his head', that's quaint, but you're wrong.



Unfortunately for you, there is a right and a wrong in this discussion. People who think Walt is some bumbling me-too man who is just so far in over his head that there's no going back are simply wrong. Even by the showrunners own accounts, you're wrong.

Walt had multiple occasions to "get off the ride." Multiple. Not once, not twice, not three times. He has had somewhere in the order of at least five different occasions when he very truly could have gotten off the bus and saved his family, in the true sense of the word.

But he didn't. Because, as anyone who actually watches the show realizes, it's never been about saving his family. It is about Walter White's pride. And if something gets in the way of that, whether it puts his family in danger or not, he's going to strike back.



If it was about his family he would have stopped this in SEASON ONE. How is it that some people fail to realize this? He could have taken the offer that those ex-co workers of his offered him. They would have paid for his medical treatments and given him a very cush salary. He turned it down. He turned down saving his family, because why? Because he had to sit in the restaurant and tell the lady to fuck off, because she was bruising his pride.

And this is one occasion. Time and time again, he has some small window of opportunity to get out of this world once and for all, but he didn't. Because his pride. Because he's a monster.

You keep trying to justify these actions of his, in the most painfully contrived fashion. It's actually more painful to see the contortions people try to make to try to make Walter White seem less monstrous than he actually is. The point is he never had to go in with Gus. He ended up with Gus because he couldn't let sleeping dogs lie, because his pride demanded that he kept trying to be more ambitious with his formula. He never had to get there.

Your defense of Walter White is like saying that some gangster who kills on orders of his fellow gang members is not truly a monster because, hey, it's the only thing he could have done in that situation - after all, they would have killed him! Yes, they would have killed him. But the point is by joining the gang that person has become complicit with that lifestyle. That he has made these choices and that those choices were wrong are undeniable; that he has become a monster is also beyond dispute. The same is true of Walter White.

I feel like this points needs to be emphasized again, since somehow it's conveniently ignored:

THIS is not about his family. If it was, he would have taken one of the four or five occasions to exit this world when he saw how dangerous it was. Remember, in the very first episode of the show Walter White got a taste of what those dangers implied: risk of life, risk of being outed and destroying your family, risk of the very financial stability you claim to be seeking. And in that first episode, was a string of events. After a little while, the show had various outs for him. He could have escaped. But he didn't. He didn't want to. He enjoyed people complimenting his formula; enjoyed the power that came with the world. He doesn't care about his family. He only cares about himself.




Well it's a good thing you're so good at reading minds that you will condemn someone to death for some hypothetical influence they're going to have on your friends future likelihood to overdose. Instead of, ya know, just doing the right thing, saving the poor girl, and giving them both a chance to recover for good.

Some really fucking warped morality some people on GAF were taught growing up.




So you see the various occasions when Walt had the opportunity to not horrifically endanger his family, and how he makes a conscious decision to ensure they're put in danger for the foreseeable future, and you somehow still think he isn't a monster? It is his pride which makes him a monster, that's true, but a monster he remains nonetheless.



Hahah, we all would have done the same as Walt?

Speak for your goddamn self. Some of us have a moral compass.

You're adorable.

 

[faceless007]

The guy who thinks we're all sociopaths for not completely thinking every decision Walt has made is despicable.

No, just the morally indefensible ones.

 

[Amir0x]

www.google.com

define:brevity

You're adorable.

Actively admitting that you're going to fail to put effort into your posts is not exactly the best way to acquit yourself in these proceedings.

 

[metalslimer]

I think people have different definitions of what a monster is which leads this argument. When I look at someone like Tony Soprano I definitely see a monster there who's only purpose is to cause destruction and pain for those around him. When I see Walt, I just don't get that same feeling from him. That might change with the newest season, but we'll see.

No, just the morally indefensible ones.

Is there a difference between morally wrong and morally indefensible?

 

[Slo]

Actively admitting that you're going to fail to put effort into your posts is not exactly the best way to acquit yourself in these proceedings.

Well, apparently I've found myself in a debate with not only the Godfather of all things Breaking Bad, not just the founder and CEO of Morals Inc., but also the judge of who gets to have an opinion on the Internet.

How much effort should I really put in?

 

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

You're adorable.

He's been banging this drum for as long as I can remember. What's great is I don't disagree with him at all. Walt's a piece of shit.

If you ever wondered what led to him getting de-modded (not the actual straw that broke -edit- the camels back), it is his confrontational attitude about things..in this case a television show character.

 

[Puddles]

If Walt strikes an old lady with lupus this season, I'll definitely stop rooting for him.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

If Walt strikes an old lady with lupus this season, I'll definitely stop rooting for him.

same, unless he does it for his family. Or to save Jesse or something. Then I'm down. Gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[Slo]

He's been banging this drum for as long as I can remember. What's great is I don't disagree with him at all. Walt's a piece of shit.

If you ever wondered what led to him getting de-modded (not the actual straw that broke -edit- the camels back), it is his confrontational attitude about things..in this case a television show character.

Seriously? This guy used to be a mod? Wow.

Well, I agree too that Walt is a piece of crap. He's absolutely a villian, but he doesn't see himself that way.

 

[Amir0x]

I think people have different definitions of what a monster is which leads this argument. When I look at someone like Tony Soprano I definitely see a monster there who's only purpose is to cause destruction and pain for those around him. When I see Walt, I just don't get that same feeling from him. That might change with the newest season, but we'll see.

Did Tony Soprano ever poison a child? All seriousness, he was a monster too, but what actually categorically separates the two? The idea that Walt was at one time not a monster?

I think the intent of the showrunners have never been clearer after that event, because they also summarized it in the song that they picked to end Season 4. They're very careful with their music selection, it has very specific purposes, and so it's fair to read into it:

Danger Mouse's Black played to the credits, which had the following lyrics:

Burning nights, he's coming to me and,
Someway, he'll punish my deeds,
And he'll find,
All the crimes.

But then they ask, when they gunna see them,
Then they gunna ask to feel,
The ghost, the walls, the dreams,
Well I've got mine.

At last, those coming came and,
They never looked back,
With blinding stars in their eyes,
But all they saw was black.

Fooled them,
Hoping to seem like a sliver of evil,
But the part agreed and,
It's not a mask,
So be honest with me,
We can't afford to ignore,
That I'm the disease.

At the end, I'm just wondering what Walt has to do to be considered a monster for the last few people who think otherwise. Seems like the only thing left is for him to kill a member of his own family/

If you ever wondered what led to him getting de-modded (not the actual straw that broke -edit- the camels back), it is his confrontational attitude about things..in this case a television show character.

What led to me being de-modded was the edit, your fantasies about everything else is just that.

Well, apparently I've found myself in a debate with not only the Godfather of all things Breaking Bad, not just the founder and CEO of Morals Inc., but also the judge of who gets to have an opinion on the Internet.

How much effort should I really put in?

You don't have to put in any effort; just realize that people view your posts with as much respect and value as you put out there. The less effort you put into your positions, the less thought you put into it, the less likely people are to take those views seriously. You have to show that you actually care about the shit you spew.

 

[metalslimer]

Seriously? This guy used to be a mod? Wow.

Well, I agree too that Walt is a piece of crap. He's absolutely a villian, but he doesn't see himself that way.

To be fair, I don't think most good villains see themselves as being the complete assholes they are.

At the end, I'm just wondering what Walt has to do to be considered a monster for the last few people who think otherwise. Seems like the only thing left is for him to kill a member of his own family/

Well for me the moment I completely stopped caring for Tony was when

Spoiler

He actively berated his sister with the thought of her son who was taken from her when Janice was trying to get better. It was completely unprovoked and the sign of a complete sociopath who couldn't stand others happiness besides himself.

While Walt has made some deliberate decisions that could and probably would end up hurting those around him, I don't think he has ever consciously decided to hurt one of them in that manner.

 

[devilinanewdress]

I'd love to be harsher on Amir0x who is superlatively defensive and vitriolic in this thread but I copied his eloquent post about Mad Men just to get my sceptical mate to watch the show so I'll hold my tongue. As for Breaking Bad, what's been everyone's favourite episode up to now?

 

[kehs]

I'm not sure it matters whether his motivation is altruism or a sense of moral obligation; either way it indicates that he has some moral nuance and is not simply an all-consumed egomaniacal monster.

That's true, I guess every monster has their soft spot.

 

[ezekial45]

What a shitty way for this thread to end.

I'd love to be harsher on Amir0x who is superlatively defensive and vitriolic in this thread but I copied his eloquent post about Mad Men just to get my sceptical mate to watch the show so I'll hold my tongue. As for Breaking Bad, what's been everyone's favourite episode up to now?

Stop! You're feeding his ego.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Someone who actually watches the show, apparently. Sometimes there is a right and a wrong answer in these discussions. People who think Walt is 'in over his head' or some little pussy who just happens to be accidentally stumbling into these situations are simply wrong, there's no gentler way to put it. There are literally at this point dozens of examples of Walt simply being a monster.

Now I listed quite a number of examples in the post which you pathetically dismissed, as is typically the case for the WW defenders because it isn't solvent with your worldview. That's unfortunately but there's no sugarcoating here.

If you view Walter White as some dude 'in over his head', that's quaint, but you're wrong.



Unfortunately for you, there is a right and a wrong in this discussion. People who think Walt is some bumbling me-too man who is just so far in over his head that there's no going back are simply wrong. Even by the showrunners own accounts, you're wrong.

Walt had multiple occasions to "get off the ride." Multiple. Not once, not twice, not three times. He has had somewhere in the order of at least five different occasions when he very truly could have gotten off the bus and saved his family, in the true sense of the word.

But he didn't. Because, as anyone who actually watches the show realizes, it's never been about saving his family. It is about Walter White's pride. And if something gets in the way of that, whether it puts his family in danger or not, he's going to strike back.



If it was about his family he would have stopped this in SEASON ONE. How is it that some people fail to realize this? He could have taken the offer that those ex-co workers of his offered him. They would have paid for his medical treatments and given him a very cush salary. He turned it down. He turned down saving his family, because why? Because he had to sit in the restaurant and tell the lady to fuck off, because she was bruising his pride.

And this is one occasion. Time and time again, he has some small window of opportunity to get out of this world once and for all, but he didn't. Because his pride. Because he's a monster.

You keep trying to justify these actions of his, in the most painfully contrived fashion. It's actually more painful to see the contortions people try to make to try to make Walter White seem less monstrous than he actually is. The point is he never had to go in with Gus. He ended up with Gus because he couldn't let sleeping dogs lie, because his pride demanded that he kept trying to be more ambitious with his formula. He never had to get there.

Your defense of Walter White is like saying that some gangster who kills on orders of his fellow gang members is not truly a monster because, hey, it's the only thing he could have done in that situation - after all, they would have killed him! Yes, they would have killed him. But the point is by joining the gang that person has become complicit with that lifestyle. That he has made these choices and that those choices were wrong are undeniable; that he has become a monster is also beyond dispute. The same is true of Walter White.

I feel like this points needs to be emphasized again, since somehow it's conveniently ignored:

THIS is not about his family. If it was, he would have taken one of the four or five occasions to exit this world when he saw how dangerous it was. Remember, in the very first episode of the show Walter White got a taste of what those dangers implied: risk of life, risk of being outed and destroying your family, risk of the very financial stability you claim to be seeking. And in that first episode, was a string of events. After a little while, the show had various outs for him. He could have escaped. But he didn't. He didn't want to. He enjoyed people complimenting his formula; enjoyed the power that came with the world. He doesn't care about his family. He only cares about himself.




Well it's a good thing you're so good at reading minds that you will condemn someone to death for some hypothetical influence they're going to have on your friends future likelihood to overdose. Instead of, ya know, just doing the right thing, saving the poor girl, and giving them both a chance to recover for good.

Some really fucking warped morality some people on GAF were taught growing up.




So you see the various occasions when Walt had the opportunity to not horrifically endanger his family, and how he makes a conscious decision to ensure they're put in danger for the foreseeable future, and you somehow still think he isn't a monster? It is his pride which makes him a monster, that's true, but a monster he remains nonetheless.



Hahah, we all would have done the same as Walt?

Speak for your goddamn self. Some of us have a moral compass.

 

[Slo]

To be fair, I don't think most good villains see themselves as being the complete assholes they are.

I bet you're right. But that's what I love about this show. We get to see his fall. He's a murderer and a drug dealer. In the eyes of the law he's just as bad as those Mexican Cartel twins, but the show portrays them as demons.

 

[Fry]

As for Breaking Bad, what's been everyone's favourite episode up to now?

It's still between 'Peekaboo' or '4 Days Out' for me.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I bet you're right. But that's what I love about this show. We get to see his fall. He's a murderer and a drug dealer. In the eyes of the law he's just as bad as those Mexican Cartel twins, but the show portrays them as demons.

"In the eyes of the law"! Those pesky lawmakers making laws against murder.

 

[Eggplant Wizard]

It's important to note in these discussions that the show itself took attempts to justify Walt's behavior back in season 1. Marie's kleptomania and Skyler's manipulation of the police in episode 7 were both intended to show how "anyone" can be led to stretch their definitions of moral behavior. This was dropped in season 2, of course.

When I watch Mad Men, I find myself constantly rooting for Don Draper to become a better person, cheering at his moments of progress and cringing when he falls into his old habits. I find it interesting that there hasn't been any such push-pull with Walter White's descent, as every action he takes condemning him further. It might be fascinating to see him attempt a personal redemption late in the series, if he ever realizes how terrible he's become.

 

[devilinanewdress]

What a shitty way for this thread to end.



Stop! You're feeding his ego.

Surely someone who gets off on perpetually undermining the opinions of others on a gaming forum has no ego?

 

[Fry]

This discussion will keep going for a long time. I very much doubt Walt will become a better person in the upcoming season.

 

[Slo]

"In the eyes of the law"! Those pesky lawmakers making laws against murder.

You're just trolling me now. :jnc

Yes, I have more sympathy for people who have a similar background as me and I can relate to well. I guess if I were raised my entire life to be a killer by my Mexican Cartel affiliated uncle, then I might relate better to them!

 

[devilinanewdress]

It's still between 'Peekaboo' or '4 Days Out' for me.

4 days out, yep, great shout. That ending was really powerful. Peekaboo was a little too bleak for my tastes. I'm going to have to go with 'Crawl Space', 'Breakage' or 'One Minute'.

 

[kehs]

It's still between 'Peekaboo' or '4 Days Out' for me.

Fly and Crawl Space, can't decide.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

You're just trolling me now. :jnc

Yes, I have more sympathy for people who have a similar background as me and I can relate to well. I guess if I were raised my entire life to be a killer by my Mexican Cartel affiliated uncle, then I might relate better to them!

The way you phrased "in the eyes of the law" implies that you think it's an egregious comparison. That it's only in the letter of the law that they're the same.

It's in their ability to solve problems by murder that they're identical.

 

[metalslimer]

I very much doubt Walt will become a better person in the upcoming season.

I just hope they don't take a lazy way out by having Walt sacrifice himself in some final moment of redemption or just leaving him on top to end the series

Edit: As for favorite episodes I say Crawl Space, Half Measure, and The Fly. Actually, The Fly is one of the very reasons I don't see Walt as completely irredeemable. As terrible as some of the things Walt has done, he genuinely seemed remorseful (albeit under the influence of drugs).

 

[tycoonheart]

Half Measure and Crawl Space.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Fly and Crawl Space, can't decide.

I'd say "Fly" too. I really want to say "Problem Dog" but I don't know if you can put a whole episode on top for one scene, even though that one scene is better than all of "Fly"...

Hm. Thoughts?

 

[Amir0x]

Well for me the moment I completely stopped caring for Tony was when

Spoiler

He actively berated his sister with the thought of her son who was taken from her when Janice was trying to get better. It was completely unprovoked and the sign of a complete sociopath who couldn't stand others happiness besides himself.

And so far at no point did Walter White pass THAT bar for you? I mean, poisoning a child? Not a monster. Letting someone die in front of you? Not a monster. Murdering, god, I've lost count so far? Not a monster.

I think people think that because someone is a monster that it somehow means we can't like the character. I like the Walter White character. But I like him with full knowledge that he IS a monster, because that's what makes him fascinating.

I'd love to be harsher on Amir0x who is superlatively defensive and vitriolic in this thread but I copied his eloquent post about Mad Men just to get my sceptical mate to watch the show so I'll hold my tongue. As for Breaking Bad, what's been everyone's favourite episode up to now?

I don't know which Mad Men post that is, but sometimes things need to be said the way they are. People are so busy sugarcoating things all the time. Sometimes there is a right and a wrong answer; sometimes even a right and a wrong opinion.

It's not 'superlatively defensive and vitriolic' to say that people who think Walter White is just a otherwise sweet guy who we would all do the same if we were in his position are wrong... not only do I think it's fair to suggest that this is unequivocally WRONG, but I think it's fair to say that anyone who would do the same thing Walt would is at least part sociopath. He has poisoned children, murdered like half a dozen people, cooked and marketed an extremely dangerous version of a drug, committed a terrorist attack in an OLD PEOPLES HOME, sent in an old lady to his house putting her at great risk of being killed by the hoodlums inside, the list goes on and on. To me, I think this is past the point where I have to sugarcoat what it means to say you'd go along with this, ya know

 

[shadyspace]

I want him to end up like Conker at the end of Conker's Bad Fur Day.

 

[BertramCooper]

Holy shit, only one week? I could have sworn it was two.

I'm going to have to do the quickest series re-watch ever.

 

[Eggplant Wizard]

I just hope they don't take a lazy way out by having Walt sacrifice himself in some final moment of redemption or just leaving him on top to end the series

I don't see what's wrong with this. Breaking Bad as an origin story would be an interesting way to reframe the series.

 

[Matt]

As to the Jane thing. If the same circumstances had happened where I was standing there watching my best friend who was about to kill himself with drugs, I can't honestly say that I would have saved Jane either.

Well, that's kinda the definition of a sociopath right there.

 

[devilinanewdress]

I just hope they don't take a lazy way out by having Walt sacrifice himself in some final moment of redemption or just leaving him on top to end the series

Not to be contentious but both of those things (bearing in mind being done in the imitable Vince Gilligan style) would be awesome no?

 

[faceless007]

This discussion will keep going for a long time. I very much doubt Walt will become a better person in the upcoming season.

Well Gilligan has described his stated concept for the show since Day 1 as "Mr. Chips turns into Scarface"...so I'd say that's pretty much a given.

 

[devilinanewdress]

It's not 'superlatively defensive and vitriolic' to say that people who think Walter White is just a otherwise sweet guy who we would all do the same if we were in his position... not only do I think it's fair to suggest that this is unequivocally WRONG, but I think it's fair to say that anyone who would do the same thing Walt would is at least part sociopath. He has poisoned children, murdered like half a dozen people, cooked and marketed an extremely dangerous version of a drug, committed a terrorist attack in an OLD PEOPLES HOME, sent in an old lady to his house putting her at great risk of being killed by the hoodlums inside, the list goes on and on. To me, I think this is past the point where I have to sugarcoat what it means to say you'd go along with this, ya know

Yeah you can shut up now.

 

[Puddles]

This discussion will keep going for a long time. I very much doubt Walt will become a better person in the upcoming season.

All he really has to do is not poison any more kids.

Every other decision he's made has been justifiable in context, IMO.