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[maharg]

No one who posts in this thread regularly is a misogynist

You sure do love making these sweeping defensive claims, don't you.

Like when you said recently no one ever described skylar as a bitch, as if a simple search doesn't prove that hopelessly wrong.

Yeah, no one's a misogynist in this thread. In fact, they don't exist. Feminism succeeded and all media representations and responses to media representations are perfectly equal! Hallelujah we live in the promised land!

 

[GremlinFool]

It's really annoying that we have to have this conversation again. We had it for Seasons 3 and 4, and that should have been the end of it, but no, here we go again.

No one who posts in this thread regularly is a misogynist, yet a lot of us hate Skyler. All that needs to be said, really. And you're right, the way Anna Gunn plays her has a lot to do with it.

You argued for four and a half seasons that Walter White was a sympathetic character. I don't think you're fit to make all-encompassing proclamations on the pristine qualities of some of this show's fans.

 

[waypoetic]

Is Skylar a great character Or is she the most poorly written/acted?

She's very much the only character who questions Walt and keeps telling him to fuck off. That's her "job".

... And buying a god damn Chrysler PT Cruiser.

 

[DarknessTear]

I don't think I've really said anything in the Breaking Bad threads but I only have one opinion of Skylar. I thought she was cool when she was giving handjobs under the covers, but ever since then she's been pretty terrible. Even before things got really bad.

 

[Puddles]

You argued for four and a half seasons that Walter White was a sympathetic character. I don't think you're fit to make all-encompassing proclamations on the pristine qualities of some of this show's fans.

He was a sympathetic character for about 3.9 seasons.

 

[A Human Becoming]

I don't think I've really said anything in the Breaking Bad threads but I only have one opinion of Skylar. I thought she was cool when she was giving handjobs under the covers, but ever since then she's been pretty terrible. Even before things got really bad.

Boy, this could be interpreted the wrong way.

 

[Zeliard]

Boy, this could be interpreted the wrong way.

Nothing in this thread surprises me anymore, heh.

 

[TrumanBurbank]

 

[beastmode]

Fun thoughts:

Hank is traumatized by a bomb going off. Walt kills someone with a bomb (seasons 2 and 4.)
Hank uses his car to hit one of the cousins, shoots the other in the head. Walt kills one of the kid killers by hitting them with his car, kills the other with a headshot (season 3.)
In season 1 (technically 2) both Walt and Hank take down Tuco. Season 5?

 

[Aiii]

The endgame was always gonna be Hank vs. Walt.

At the end of the line, one must win and that should be Hank. I do hope Walt doesn't die, but rather gets caught and locked up. Would be unsatisfying if at the end of the line Walt "gets away with it" by dying before answering to his crimes.

I'm esp. looking forward to Walt Jr. finding out what his father has been doing.

 

[SeanR1221]

The endgame was always gonna be Hank vs. Walt.

At the end of the line, one must win and that should be Hank. I do hope Walt doesn't die, but rather gets caught and locked up. Would be unsatisfying if at the end of the line Walt "gets away with it" by dying before answering to his crimes.

I'm esp. looking forward to Walt Jr. finding out what his father has been doing.

"badass, dad!"

 

[Dabanton]

There's no way a similar situation would lead to the same ugly or sexist reactions Skylar, Carmela, and Betty have received over the last decade. The antihero's behavior is never questioned, and instead spun as some badass behavior worth support or praise. The level of male entitlement and fantasy building is rather troubling to me, and I think it's perhaps more evident with Breaking Bad because Walt is (arguably) more likable than Tony Soprano, Don Draper, Vic Mackey, etc. Up until last week more than a few people were arguing that he was a decent person, as if selling drugs, killing people, and being a manipulative bastard for 5 seasons was nothing ("he was just protecting his family!").

Sean Collins called it a few weeks ago


http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/breaking-bad-recap-the-sky-is-falling-20120729

He forgot one of the better examples of this. Margaret from Boardwalk Empire. It made very interesting reading when

Spoiler

she slept with Owen last season.

The anger from certain Gaf members in the discussion thread was a sight to see.

 

[neoemonk]

I placed Walt in the "monster" camp after the death of Jane. I have seen almost no redeeming qualities in the guy since then.

 

[waypoetic]

I placed Walt in the "monster" camp after the death of Jane. I have seen almost no redeeming qualities in the guy since then.

Monster? It's not like he laughed and pointed at her when she OD'd. He had that "OMG!?!" face.

 

[YoungHav]

I placed Walt in the "monster" camp after the death of Jane. I have seen almost no redeeming qualities in the guy since then.

face it, the only reason people were outraged about Jane was because she's pretty. Had they cast a fat ugly person, you guys would recognize that she blackmailed a drug dealer and (accidentally) got what she deserved.

 

[Aiii]

face it, the only reason people were outraged about Jane was because she's pretty. Had they cast a fat ugly person, you guys would recognize that she blackmailed a drug dealer and (accidentally) got what she deserved.

In a world where the main protagonist IS the drug dealer, I find an addict doing something bad not such a bad thing.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Wait, are there actually people who hate Sansa Stark because she holds Joffrey back? That's disturbing.

I don't think anyone truly thinks that.


I know people who hated Sansa in the first book/first season due to being a selfish dumbass and telling Cersei about her father's plans to send them from the city. Personally gave her a pass because she is like 12 and most 12 yr olds are dumbasses when it comes to anything important. Sad thing is little sansa is already more intelligent/brave/interesting in season 1 than skyler has been in all 5. Hell if we are talking about hated tv wives even Betty from mad men who is nothing more than a little child in a woman's body is probably more intelligent and tougher than skyler. I don't really hate betty just recognize her for the child she is.

 

[SeanR1221]

Monster? It's not like he laughed and pointed at her when she OD'd. He had that "OMG!?!" face.

Yeah like "OMG why didn't I think of that!"

 

[waypoetic]

In a world where the main protagonist IS the drug dealer, I find an addict doing something bad not such a bad thing.

Walt IS the cook. Have you watched the series at all? By the latest episodes he's been taking on the business as of a salesman, like Gus. Pinkman is the dealer. Well, was... Now he's a pussy.

 

[Aiii]

Walt IS the cook. Have you watched the series at all? By the latest episodes he's been taking on the business as of a salesman, like Gus. Pinkman is the dealer. Well, was... Now he's a pussy.

Walt has been handling the business end for a while. Yes, he did not do the actual dealing on the street and yes, he did cook for Gus, but lets not forget he was actively dealing with others to sell what he produced and even took out some competition that didn't want his stuff dealt on their streets.

So, unless you're taking drug dealer to be "the guy on the street selling the stuff directly to the customer" I state that Walt has been dealing drugs since the first season.

 

[Zeliard]

Monster? It's not like he laughed and pointed at her when she OD'd. He had that "OMG!?!" face.

He could have easily saved her and consciously chose not to. Isn't that monstrous?

 

[haikira]

face it, the only reason people were outraged about Jane was because she's pretty. Had they cast a fat ugly person, you guys would recognize that she blackmailed a drug dealer and (accidentally) got what she deserved.

My take on that scene is this.

Walt does many awful things throughout the series, for a number of reasons. Normally those reasons are impulsive or out of fear though.

Season one he kills two people. But it's arguable that both were self defense. The first was immediate and the second second due to inevitable retaliation.

The planning of premeditated murder of Tuco was to protect themselves from what seemed at the time a likely threat.

There's killing the two drug dealers in season three. Obviously two reasons. The primary being to rescue Jesse and also out of shock and anger to news of them killing a child.

Gale is the hardest to defend. But it's still arguable that the decision could have been to protect people he loved, just as much as himself.

I'm not saying any of these actions aren't awful. But on some level, you can begin to defend them.

But. Letting Jane die was out of almost pure selfishness. His automatic reaction is to reach out and save her, then he stops and forces himself to watch her die. His impulsive action was the right one, but he logically makes an awful choice. I think that's why i found the scene so disturbing to watch.

 

[FootballFan]

The bad guy rarely wins, but for breaking bad i would make an exception. Walt has to win.

Final Scene, Walt is in his car driving off into the sunset with a trunk full of blue.

Jesse calls him up on his Cell phone.

WW: "What do you want Jesse, i told you not to ever call me. We are done, remember?"

Jesse: "Mr. White yo, did you see what happened to that brother in law of yours, it was all over the news, they are saying somebody murdered him and his wife.They are saying it was a lethal dose of Ricin and with your wife missing i thought something had happened to you too. "

WW: "......"

Jesse: "Was this you...(Jesse has nervous break down)....bitch?"

WW: "I won"

The End.

Seriously though, cant wait for the season finale. Hopefully its a blockbuster of epic proportions. Hard to predict which way its going to go.

 

[jarosh]

For me, Walter became irredeemably a bad guy when he started cooking and selling/distributing meth. Which was, uh, I dunno, in the pilot? So, really, I've never been conflicted about my feelings for the guy. And of course it's all been downhill from there. None of which obviously means that he's not an interesting and morally complex character with a lot of actions taken that fall into a moral gray area or decisions made that are sane or understandable, considering the situation he's gotten himself into.

But it's not like it's something new or that it hasn't always been a joy to watch interesting, well written bad guys as main characters in TV shows. Hell, most of us have seen The Shield, haven't we? Do we need to "root" for someone in order to enjoy a movie or a TV show? I sure as hell don't. There's great fiction in which practically all characters are beyond any kind of moral redemption.

That said, Skyler should, by default, be considered the better person than Walt, whether one finds her behavior or character "annoying" or any other intangibly hateful or spiteful adjective. The minutiae of her defense and coping mechanisms are hardly relevant, as they all fall into the range of Normal Human Behavior, especially compared to Walt's actions. The *only* thing that ever stained her clean record was - no, not fucking Ted - her period of complicity with Walt's "business". Clearly she is now a criminal as well, although hardly on the same level as Walt. Despite her wrongdoings she actually has a conscience and is capable of regret and remorse. However, at no point in the show has Walt ever considered that he'd gone too far, that what he's doing might be wrong etc. He's in auto-rationalization and self-delusion mode 100% of the time.

Sure, it's not like Jesse's actions are any better than Walt's in the grand scheme of things. But I do feel bad for the guy, since he's clearly capable of intense feelings of guilt and self-doubt, all foreign concepts to Walt. He's *always* been too busy with himself, his ego, his pride, his personal gain, from the very beginning, even when he was still deluding himself into believing he was doing it all "for his family". He's pretty much been a sociopath from the start.

And, Christ, of course letting someone die - assuming they're not goddamn Hitler or a child molester on the run - when you have the chance to save them, especially when there's no danger at all to your own person, is IRREDEEMABLY immoral and, yes, just as bad as killing them with your own hands. Whether you succeed in saving the person or not is secondary. Consciously letting a person choke to death they way Walt did is *evil*. Face it.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

jarosh, that's a very mature way of looking at the situation, and the moral values you describe let me know we'd get along well. But what the hell are you doing posting that in this thread? It has long been taken over by sociopaths and others bending over backward to rationalize hurtful and harmful actions. In one fell swoop, this thread has managed both to populate my otherwise unused ignore list and to explain the rise of the Tea Party and the appeal of the modern GOP in general.

There are just people out there who are concerned with number one only.

 

[Cornballer]

- Onion A|V Club Interview: Breaking Bad’s Betsy Brandt on the evolution of her character

Though she’d never before held a full-time TV gig when she was cast as the gossipy, kleptomania-prone Marie Schrader on the AMC series Breaking Bad, Betsy Brandt quickly proved she could hold her own alongside co-stars Bryan Cranston, Anna Gunn, and Dean Norris. As the fifth season of Breaking Bad heads to its conclusion, Brandt talked to The A.V. Club about the slow but steady evolution of her character, the origins of Marie’s obsession with the color purple, and her constant requests that Vince Gilligan write her an action scene.

 

[Cornballer]

- AMC Content: Hank's Blog - Kind of a Big Deal

 

[Puddles]

jarosh, that's a very mature way of looking at the situation, and the moral values you describe let me know we'd get along well. But what the hell are you doing posting that in this thread? It has long been taken over by sociopaths and others bending over backward to rationalize hurtful and harmful actions. In one fell swoop, this thread has managed both to populate my otherwise unused ignore list and to explain the rise of the Tea Party and the appeal of the modern GOP in general.

There are just people out there who are concerned with number one only.

Not just misogynists, but sociopaths now.

What will I be by this time tomorrow, I wonder?

 

[Dilly]

Not just misogynists, but sociopaths now.

What will I be by this time tomorrow, I wonder?

It's getting ridiculous.

Actually linking this to the GOP? :lol

 

[The Horror the horror]

And, Christ, of course letting someone die - assuming they're not goddamn Hitler or a child molester on the run - when you have the chance to save them, especially when there's no danger at all to your own person, is IRREDEEMABLY immoral and, yes, just as bad as killing them with your own hands. Whether you succeed in saving the person or not is secondary. Consciously letting a person choke to death they way Walt did is *evil*. Face it.

She was a full-fledged junky, and had openly threatened to uproot Walt's life through blackmail. Walt and EVERYONE knew that once the money he handed to Jesse ran out (and it would have within a year), these two would return from "New Zealand" like a goddamn nightmare and attempt to extort even more money from Walt in order to sustain their ravenous drug habit. What sense would it have made for Walt to willingly help someone that posed such a serious threat to his freedom and, potentially, his life?

 

[Aiii]

It's getting ridiculous.

Actually linking this to the GOP? :lol

...I'm not even American...

 

[daviyoung]

Breaking Bad does well to steer away from pantomime heroism/villainy most of the time, yet people can't help but focus on them. I think y'all taking this show a bit too personally.

 

[killertofu]

She was a full-fledged junky, and had openly threatened to uproot Walt's life through blackmail. Walt and EVERYONE knew that once the money he handed to Jesse ran out, these two would return from "New Zealand" like a goddamn nightmare and attempt to extort even more money from Walt in order to sustain their ravenous drug habit.

Wasn't it Jesse who got her to use again? And wasn't she the one who suggested that they become clean? Not saying that would work but...

 

[Cornballer]

- Boston.com: Bob Odenkirk lays down the law on 'Breaking Bad'

 

[MyEpitomeCliché]

We all are just going to have to wait until next Summer to witness the glorious redemption of Walter White.

 

[Aiii]

Redemption? Okay, I guess we can forgive him for killing all the criminals. We can justify letting an addict die by doing nothing and he could redeem himself for that.

But in the end, the guy has still been cooking meth for a long time. The amount of people that died by using his product alone would be in the hundreds, probably thousands by now. There's no redemption from that.

I mean, if he was growing weed or something fine, but Crystal Meth?

 

[Nyx]

Redemption? Okay, I guess we can forgive him for killing all the criminals. We can justify letting an addict die by doing nothing and he could redeem himself for that.

But in the end, the guy has still been cooking meth for a long time. The amount of people that died by using his product alone would be in the hundreds, probably thousands by now. There's no redemption from that.

I mean, if he was growing weed or something fine, but Crystal Meth?

Nah, it's not like everybody that uses meth dies instantly, in fact, there's also a lot of users who have been doing it for decades.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Wasn't it Jesse who got her to use again? And wasn't she the one who suggested that they become clean? Not saying that would work but...

I'll agree that Jesse's presence in her life didn't help her one bit, but he did send her away on occasions he felt the urge to smoke. While he unintentionally compelled her to break her abstinence and use meth again, it was her idea for them to jump to heroin, which was when she became truly unhinged.

 

[Harry Potter]

Walt did it for the greater good. Population control.

 

[Salaadin]

She was a full-fledged junky, and had openly threatened to uproot Walt's life through blackmail. Walt and EVERYONE knew that once the money he handed to Jesse ran out (and it would have within a year), these two would return from "New Zealand" like a goddamn nightmare and attempt to extort even more money from Walt in order to sustain their ravenous drug habit. What sense would it have made for Walt to willingly help someone that posed such a serious threat to his freedom and, potentially, his life?

So? Does that mean she deserved to die?

Shes a bad person but she didnt deserve to choke on her own vomit in the way that she did. It takes a heartless ass to knock someone over on their back (by accident!) and then stand there and watch as they choke to death next to their boyfriend and then walk away and let the boyfriend take the blame for it.

Two things can be said about Walt because of Janes death:
1) Hes an asshole who let Jane die for no real reason other than A) she was taking Jesse away from him and B)she threatened him.
2) He only thinks he cares about Jesse. Any self respecting human being with a soul would come clean about what happened and take responsibility for their actions.

 

[Stet]

I'll agree that Jesse's presence in her life didn't help her one bit, but he did send her away on occasions he felt the urge to smoke. While he unintentionally compelled her to break her abstinence and use meth again, it was her idea for them to jump to heroin, which was when she became truly unhinged.

That's not how addiction works. There's a reason people who are recovering from an addiction to heroin shouldn't even be drinking, let alone doing meth.

 

[The Horror the horror]

That's not how addiction works. There's a reason people who are recovering from an addiction to heroin shouldn't even be drinking, let alone doing meth.

In Jesse's defense, he didn't seem to know Jane was a former heroin addict along with being a former meth user. At least, he looked surprised and totally out of his element when she initially presented him with heroin. If I'm not mistaken, that was his first time trying the stuff.

So? Does that mean she deserved to die?

Shes a bad person but she didnt deserve to choke on her own vomit in the way that she did. It takes a heartless ass to knock someone over on their back (by accident!) and then stand there and watch as they choke to death next to their boyfriend and then walk away and let the boyfriend take the blame for it.

Two things can be said about Walt because of Janes death:
1) Hes an asshole who let Jane die for no real reason other than A) she was taking Jesse away from him and B)she threatened him.
2) He only thinks he cares about Jesse. Any self respecting human being with a soul would come clean about what happened and take responsibility for their actions.

What does deserves have to do with it? She's a heroin user, and that in and of itself carries tremendous risk. To Walt, she was not very dissimilar to Tuco, because they were both crazy, drug-addicted loose cannons that served to sabotage not only his long-term goals but his life, as well. You honestly believe that the same man who schemed to have Tuco poisoned because of the danger he posed to him and his family would try to help another nutjob who posed a virtually similar threat? Granted, he could have come clean about this to Jesse to save him from the subsequent hardships he faced from believing that he was responsible, but all that is after-the-fact.

 

[jarosh]

She was a full-fledged junky, and had openly threatened to uproot Walt's life through blackmail. Walt and EVERYONE knew that once the money he handed to Jesse ran out (and it would have within a year), these two would return from "New Zealand" like a goddamn nightmare and attempt to extort even more money from Walt in order to sustain their ravenous drug habit. What sense would it have made for Walt to willingly help someone that posed such a serious threat to his freedom and, potentially, his life?

You ask "What sense would it have made for Walt to let her live"? Well, being a half-decent human being, it would have made a lot of sense. Reasons to *kill* her only apply if you're a sociopath/criminal like Walt and want to maintain your criminal lifestyle.

Besides, who's talking about "sense" anyway? The question is: Is *killing* her (aka willingly letting her die) evil or not? It "made sense" because it meant that Walt could maintain his criminal lifestyle without having to pay someone off. The only reason why she's in a position to blackmail Walt is *because* of his criminal lifestyle. What if, instead of killing more people, he decided it was time to fess up to his crimes? Does that make less "sense"? If it does, it's only because we know Walter White and what to expect from him. But which one is the more morally reprehensible choice, disregarding Walt's tendencies?

And why do you keep bringing up her drug addiction, her being a "full-fledged junky [sic]" or her trying to extort money to "sustain their ravenous drug habit"? Because that makes it ok to kill her? That makes it less evil somehow? Isn't that exactly the sort of thing that Walt tells himself so he doesn't have to feel guilty about everything he's done?

 

[The Horror the horror]

You ask "What sense would it have made for Walt to let her live"? Well, being a half-decent human being, it would have made a lot of sense. Reasons to *kill* her only apply if you're a sociopath/criminal like Walt and want to maintain your criminal lifestyle.

Besides, who's talking about "sense" anyway? The question is: Is *killing* her (aka willingly letting her die) evil or not? It "made sense" because it meant that Walt could maintain his criminal lifestyle without having to pay someone off. The only reason why she's in a position to blackmail Walt is *because* of his criminal lifestyle. What if, instead of killing more people, he decided it was time to fess up to his crimes? Does that make less "sense"? If it does, it's only because we know Walter White and what to expect from him. But which one is the more morally reprehensible choice, disregarding Walt's tendencies?

And why do you keep bringing up her drug addiction, her being a "full-fledged junky [sic]" or her trying to extort money to "sustain their ravenous drug habit"? Because that makes it ok to kill her? That makes it less evil somehow? Isn't that exactly the sort of thing that Walt tells himself so he doesn't have to feel guilty about everything he's done?

I brought up the fact that she was a junky, not because the life of a drug abuser is worth any less than that of another, but because her addiction rendered her incapable of being someone that Walt could possibly reason with or seek an alternative measure with (half measure). Even if Walt decided that it was okay at that point to be the target of extortion, in Walt's mind she would have returned, accompanied by further threats of exposure, to demand even more money. You saw her -- she was totally crazy, rambling with those wild, watery eyes about going clean and traveling. Why are we not looking at this from the angle of Walt saving Jesse's life, since his conversation with Jane's father that night regarding children and hope prefaced his return to Jesse's house? Would Jesse even be alive right now had Jane not died that night?

 

[Cornballer]

This is most excellent and worth a quick look:

- Be Like Mike (Ehrmantraut) (youtube)

 

[Dany]

This is most excellent and worth a quick look:

- Be Like Mike (Ehrmantraut) (youtube)

Two with one shot. BOSS
That video is kinda ridiculous, I love it

 

[jarosh]

I brought up the fact that she was a junky, not because the life of a drug abuser is worth any less than that of another, but because her addiction rendered her incapable of being someone that Walt could possibly reason with or seek an alternative measure with (half measure). Even if Walt decided that it was okay at that point to be the target of extortion, in Walt's mind she would have returned, accompanied by further threats of exposure, to demand even more money. You saw her -- she was totally crazy, rambling with those wild, watery eyes about going clean and traveling. Why are we not looking at this from the angle of Walt saving Jesse's life, since his conversation with Jane's father that night regarding children and hope prefaced his return to Jesse's house? Would Jesse even be alive right now had Jane not died that night?

Let's not kid ourselves about Walter's motives. I think we've got *plenty* of evidence about them not being quite as lofty as you're trying to paint them. Even protecting Jesse has almost always been a means to a much more selfish end.

The only case you're making here is that letting Jane die *makes sense* for the character of Walter White, that it makes sense to him, but also that *we* should have expected this behavior, that it's only logical that he would do what he did. All true. I think it's a great, a very true Walter White moment. It tells us a great deal about the guy.

But I'm not sure what else we're arguing about here. Do we understand why Walter does all the bad things he does? Yes, his motives and his personality are explored and shown to us in great detail. Do they make sense, as in, do they keep him alive and his criminal business thriving? Yes. Does it make *any* of it any less evil? Of course not.

Or are you arguing that you're *agreeing* with his choices, specifically?

 

[The Horror the horror]

Let's not kid ourselves about Walter's motives. I think we've got *plenty* of evidence about them not being quite as lofty as you're trying to paint them. Even protecting Jesse has almost always been a means to a much more selfish end.

The only case you're making here is that letting Jane die *makes sense* for the character of Walter White, that it makes sense to him, but also that *we* should have expected this behavior, that it's only logical that he would do what he did. All true. I think it's a great, a very true Walter White moment. It tells us a great deal about the guy.

But I'm not sure what else we're arguing about here. Do we understand why Walter does all the bad things he does? Yes, his motives and his personality are explored and shown to us in great detail. Do they make sense, as in, do they keep him alive and his criminal business thriving? Yes. Does it make *any* of it any less evil? Of course not.

Or are you arguing that you're *agreeing* with his choices, specifically?

I'm arguing that labeling this specific event as an act of evil is a bit harsh and extreme, but that all boils down to how we define evil. What is your definition?

 

[agrajag]

For me, Walter became irredeemably a bad guy when he started cooking and selling/distributing meth. Which was, uh, I dunno, in the pilot? So, really, I've never been conflicted about my feelings for the guy. And of course it's all been downhill from there. None of which obviously means that he's not an interesting and morally complex character with a lot of actions taken that fall into a moral gray area or decisions made that are sane or understandable, considering the situation he's gotten himself into.

But it's not like it's something new or that it hasn't always been a joy to watch interesting, well written bad guys as main characters in TV shows. Hell, most of us have seen The Shield, haven't we? Do we need to "root" for someone in order to enjoy a movie or a TV show? I sure as hell don't. There's great fiction in which practically all characters are beyond any kind of moral redemption.

That said, Skyler should, by default, be considered the better person than Walt, whether one finds her behavior or character "annoying" or any other intangibly hateful or spiteful adjective. The minutiae of her defense and coping mechanisms are hardly relevant, as they all fall into the range of Normal Human Behavior, especially compared to Walt's actions. The *only* thing that ever stained her clean record was - no, not fucking Ted - her period of complicity with Walt's "business". Clearly she is now a criminal as well, although hardly on the same level as Walt. Despite her wrongdoings she actually has a conscience and is capable of regret and remorse. However, at no point in the show has Walt ever considered that he'd gone too far, that what he's doing might be wrong etc. He's in auto-rationalization and self-delusion mode 100% of the time.

Sure, it's not like Jesse's actions are any better than Walt's in the grand scheme of things. But I do feel bad for the guy, since he's clearly capable of intense feelings of guilt and self-doubt, all foreign concepts to Walt. He's *always* been too busy with himself, his ego, his pride, his personal gain, from the very beginning, even when he was still deluding himself into believing he was doing it all "for his family". He's pretty much been a sociopath from the start.

And, Christ, of course letting someone die - assuming they're not goddamn Hitler or a child molester on the run - when you have the chance to save them, especially when there's no danger at all to your own person, is IRREDEEMABLY immoral and, yes, just as bad as killing them with your own hands. Whether you succeed in saving the person or not is secondary. Consciously letting a person choke to death they way Walt did is *evil*. Face it.

Disagree. He's clearly a sociopath now, but he wasn't in the beginning of the show. Which is upsetting. He's a total villain now, one-dimensional. A sociopath would not have moral struggles killing Krazy-8 like Walt did. Even until the very end when he realized that Krazy-8 was going to stab him with the shard, he was reluctant. The rest of your post is good.

 

[beastmode]

Fuck Jane. Walt's been evil since he decided to continue cooking meth after being forced to kill 2 people on his first day and not accept anyone's money. He went doubly evil after not listening to Jessie about going to the DEA, he wanted to risk their lives (and his family's) to kill fairly innocent Gale just so he could stay in business.

The outrage over killing Mike just further draws attention to what the viewers of the show are actually concerned with: charisma.

Disagree. He's clearly a sociopath now, but he wasn't in the beginning of the show. Which is upsetting. He's a total villain now, one-dimensional. A sociopath would not have moral struggles killing Krazy-8 like Walt did. Even until the very end when he realized that Krazy-8 was going to stab him with the shard, he was reluctant. The rest of your post is good.

I don't know how you can watch his shooting of Mike without seeing that he's clearly very regretful. It's not like he pulled out the gun while they were talking, said "You've dishonored Heisenberg. No one gets away with that." and coldly shot him in the face.