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[phalestine]

Once the court rules to take down a unlawful building, then it gets taken down.
It doesn't matter if a Jew or an Arab build it, There were Jewish homes taken down by curt order too. Something that is against the law in any democracy should not discriminate between gender, race, faith and so on.

So let me ask you this, do you truly believe isreali law does not discriminate between gender, race, faith?

 

[ankuo]

Once the court rules to take down a unlawful building, then it gets taken down.
It doesn't matter if a Jew or an Arab build it, There were Jewish homes taken down by curt order too. Something that is against the law in any democracy should not discriminate between gender, race, faith and so on.

loled hard at Bold. The irony of that ''state''

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Israel threads in this forum are a pain... Netanyahu did the most he could do to avoid this. There was basically no response for four days of barrages and the government tried to get the Egyptians to work for a truce. Hamas absolutely wants a pointless war that will change nothing, how frustrating.

Say what you will about Netanyahu, and I'm far from his fan, but his conservatism also means a disdain for military action. His years in power have been among the quietest in history for both sides. He's afraid to make peace but also afraid to make war. Hamas made it clear that they wouldn't stop until Israel gave them the fight they wanted, for pointless political reasons.

People tend to ignore this. But its easy to blame someone rather than realize the many intricacies of the violence. same can be said of the 'terrorist' rhetoric on the Israeli side.

 

[GladiatoR]

Fuck Israel. Seriously.

 

[Irobot82]

So I was always curious about what these rockets were made of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket#Rocket_design_and_cost

I don't know if rocket is proper terms. Seems more like a mortar. Made from sugar and fertilizer.

 

[Nivash]

It's shocking how evil people can be. What the government of Israel is doing is not "self defense" - it is terrorism.



Forcing someone to act as a human shield may be a violation of International Law. But choosing to act as one is certainly not. You are insane if you believe that bombing the house, while knowing that innocent people are there, is justified and *not* terrorism.

While it hasn't been definitively established that using volunteer human shields is directly in violation of the Geneva convention it certainly is in violation of the intention of the clause which reads (as it applies to civilian shields):

"Geneva Convention I
Article 19, second paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention I provides:
The responsible authorities shall ensure that [fixed establishments and mobile medical units] are, as far as possible, situated in such a manner that attacks against military objectives cannot imperil their safety.

Geneva Convention IV
Article 28 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: “The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

Additional Protocol I

Article 51(7) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides:
The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations. ”

It might be in violation of the ICC Statute though:

"Pursuant to Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii) of the 1998 ICC Statute, “tilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts."

Source: http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule97

The problem is that using civilian human shields to protect military targets, even if the civilians volunteer, is a way to "game" the system of international law that ends up endangering civilians physically as well as jeopardizing the respect that can be expected of the opponent in regards to their protective status.

I can't understand how any sane person can defend this.

 

[Theman2k]

So let me ask you this, do you truly believe isreali law does not discriminate between gender, race, faith?

Yes.

The laws in Israel are in line with the developed western democratic countries.
The biggest evidence to this are the Arab Knesset members which represent their voters, which elected them democratically.
The Arab members of Knesset have every right, freedom and immunity as every other member.

 

[Pilgor]

So I was always curious about what these rockets were made of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket#Rocket_design_and_cost

I don't know if rocket is proper terms. Seems more like a mortar. Made from sugar and fertilizer.

They are now using Fajr-5 rockets. The range is 75m, well within range of Tel Aviv. In fact, earlier today the Iron Dome intercepted rockets over Tel Aviv.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5

Fajr-5 rockets fired from Gaza

Fajr-5 launcher

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Once the court rules to take down a unlawful building, then it gets taken down.
It doesn't matter if a Jew or an Arab build it, There were Jewish homes taken down by curt order too. Something that is against the law in any democracy should not discriminate between gender, race, faith and so on.

What they declare 'unlawfully built' is susceptible to corruption and bias against Palestinian rights.

they were informed, after 10 years in the military courts, that their Palestinian lawyer was not eligible to contest the case in Israel's supreme court - because he carried West Bank identity papers - they found an Israeli firm willing to take it on. When they were told to provide a land survey, they hired (at a cost of $70,000) an Israeli surveyor, and sent him to consult maps and documents in the imperial archives of London and Istanbul. When they were asked to bring witnesses in support of their claim to have farmed the land for three generations, they hired a bus to take more than 30 Palestinian villagers to the military court near Ramallah. "We had to wait five hours outside the court under the sun," remembers Amal Nassar. "And then, after five hours, a soldier come out, they say, 'We don't want witnesses, go home.'

 

[Cromat]

So let me ask you this, do you truly believe isreali law does not discriminate between gender, race, faith?

The law itself does not discriminate but the way the Arab population is treated could be much improved.

It's still way better than how any Arab state treats its own population.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

They are now using Fajr-5 rockets. The range is 75m, well within range of Tel Aviv. In fact, earlier today the Iron Dome intercepted rockets over Tel Aviv.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5

Fajr-5 rockets fired from Gaza

Fajr-5 launcher

So those are the metal cans Amjad and Co were telling me about. Hamas must have quickly cobbled these together with materials from home depot in order to defend themselves, which is precisely their aim when they state 'all Israelis are now targets'.

 

[Menaged]

Yes.

The laws in Israel are in line with the developed western democratic countries.
The biggest evidence to this are the Arab Knesset members which represent their voters, which elected them democratically.
The Arab members of Knesset have every right, freedom and immunity as every other member.

I enjoy your posts and I think you're doing a good job explainig stuff.

I just want to touch on the democracy issue, and less about what's going on right now (I don't why). I think the fact that first and foremost Israel is a Jewish country and only then a democracy hurts the latter. I'm not talking about racial stuff, but laws against public transportaion during sabbath are kinda anti-democratic IMO.

Yes, you can defenitely claim that it's a law that can be changed by using democracy, but it's built on the Jewish side of the country, and I doubt anything will happen soon.
(I can't seem to remember if there's a law that forbids the selling of land to arabs, or if it's a thing of the past).

More on topic (I won't say much) - I feel sorry for everyone involved. The people in Israel that have to deal with the constant sirens, and the the civilians in Gaza that suffer more.
I'm quite desperate and don't see an end in sight, and it's such a shame that so many people have to suffer :\

Edit: BTW, I think it's silly to compare the firepower of both sides. Obviously Hamas is weaker, but it doesn't mean that people on the Israeli side don't suffer from the rockets. It's not a matter of a "score board" of how many people die on each side, it's about not being able to live your normal life, and be in constant anxiety

 

[phalestine]

Yes.

The laws in Israel are in line with the developed western democratic countries.
The biggest evidence to this are the Arab Knesset members which represent their voters, which elected them democratically.
The Arab members of Knesset have every right, freedom and immunity as every other member.

The law itself does not discriminate but the way the Arab population is treated could be much improved.

It's still way better than how any Arab state treats its own population.

I believe you guys believe this, unfortunately what I came across is quite the opposite. The law may not discriminate, but the people whose job is to make sure that the law is upheld sure do.

Until israel stops denying basic human rights to Palestinians, they will always be in the wrong in my eyes.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

So those are the metal cans Amjad and Co were telling me about. Hamas must have quickly cobbled these together with materials from home depot in order to defend themselves, which is precisely their aim when they state 'all Israelis are now targets'.

You can see the link to the other, far more common type of rocket they're using above. Which looks like it was built in a cave using a box of scraps (sans Tony Stark).

 

[imtehman]

I listened to an interview of Reza Aslan today. Basically he seems to have concluded that the chance of a 2 state solution is dead.

If that is dead . . . what is left? Apartheid? A government of national unity? (Good luck with that one.)


A phrase used which seems appropriate: There is the land, a Jewish state, and Democracy . . . but you can't have all 3.

the Antichrist shows up?

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

You can see the link to the other, far more common type of rocket they're using above. Which looks like it was built in a cave using a box of scraps (sans Tony Stark).

The existence of those does not preclude the existence of these, which were clearly provided by another party (one which rhymes with 'smiran' in all likelihood). I've also seen plenty of recent pictures showing holes blown out of houses by those Iron Man props.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Unless you think the money is actually being earmarked as "Kill Palestinian Children" money in this case, and is just "generically" bad otherwise.

What about the time they rolled a tank through a Soccer field?

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

I believe you guys believe this, unfortunately what I came across is quite the opposite. The law may not discriminate, but the people whose job is to make sure that the law is upheld sure do.

It's a good thing that in countries like say America the police never discriminate, only in racist evil Israel amirite

 

[Pilgor]

You can see the link to the other, far more common type of rocket they're using above. Which looks like it was built in a cave using a box of scraps (sans Tony Stark).

45 of the more "uncommon" Fajr-5 rockets were fired into Israel today, in the span of 1 hour.

 

[phalestine]

It's a good thing that in countries like say America the police never discriminate, only in racist evil Israel amirite

No you're wrong, because I never mentioned anything about America. Please don't use that backwards ass way of arguing with me.

 

[Cromat]

You can see the link to the other, far more common type of rocket they're using above. Which looks like it was built in a cave using a box of scraps (sans Tony Stark).

I don't understand the point behind posts like this. Are you saying that these so called scraps should be allowed to rain on civilians and terrorize over two million people because it's not a big deal?

 

[Theman2k]

Until israel stops denying basic human rights to Palestinians, they will always be in the wrong in my eyes.

Not only Israel don't want to deny them their basic human rights, Israel sends money to PLO regularly.
More evidence to this is that Israel also doesn't collect millions of dollars from the PLO of electricity debt, and keeps the steady flow of electricity going.

Unfortunately there are a lot of things that prevent Arabs a lot of help, Including:
Mainly security issues, terror, political issues, riots and more.

I am certain that if you knew Israelis real will for peace, and the drive for peace while terrorised, they wouldn't be so wrong in your eyes.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I don't understand the point behind posts like this. Are you saying that these so called scraps should be allowed to rain on civilians and terrorize over two million people because it's not a big deal?

What?

Cheesecakebobby made a sarcastic comment that those rockets must be the "tin cans" people were talking about. I was saying "no, the other rockets linked a few post above yours are the ones people were talking about". It's certainly true that the majority of rockets are the cheap, easily produced ones, not the complex Iranian design of ambiguous origin.

The existence of those does not preclude the existence of these, which were clearly provided by another party (one which rhymes with 'smiran' in all likelihood). I've also seen plenty of recent pictures showing holes blown out of houses by those Iron Man props.

I'm not sure how you extracted from my post that I was saying that there were 0 or fewer such rockets in Palestinian territories, or that I was arguing that improvised Palestinian rockets are incapable of blowing holes in things or killing people. I should think everybody ITT is quite aware that improvised explosives can do serious damage to things, especially in the wake of Iraq / Afghanistan.

 

[phalestine]

Not only Israel don't want to deny them their basic human rights, Israel sends money to PLO regularly.
More evidence to this is that Israel also doesn't collect millions of dollars from the PLO of electricity debt, and keeps the steady flow of electricity going.

Unfortunately there are a lot of things that prevent Arabs a lot of help, Including:
Mainly security issues, terror, political issues, riots and more.

I am certain that if you knew Israelis real will for peace, and the drive for peace while terrorised, they wouldn't be so wrong in your eyes.

You can't deny human rights based off the actions of a few. Period. And I lived in the West Bank for seven years; I believe you're really naive, and I mean no disrespect by that.

 

[besada]

Fuck Israel. Seriously.

This is not useful. This is a discussion board. If the totality of what you have to say doesn't involve or support discussion, you're doing it wrong. This sort of stuff just worsens GAF's signal to noise ratio, one of the forum's biggest issues. We expect more.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

No you're wrong, because I never mentioned anything about America. Please don't use that backwards ass way of arguing with me.

of course you never mentioned America, because the fact that racism exists everywhere else in the world hurts your argument. Numerous posters showed your claims that Israeli Arabs face institutionalised discrimination were untrue and so you changed your approach to 'well those who uphold the law are racist then', a much softer, and yet so far unsubstantiated claim that could be levelled at pretty much any modern democracy, certainly all of those I've lived in (UK, Holland, japan)

 

[Cromat]

I think for some people Israel cannot even in principle act in self-defense. That's because they believe that it has the power to single-handedly end the conflict by ending the occupation, which is unfortunately not true.

 

[Terra Firma]

A question for all you Israel-defenders:

Why not do a full fledged GROUND operation, which results in higher accountability, rather than inflicting "collateral damage" beyond measure? The IDF has obviously better trained units, is better armed, is better armored, and obviously has more numbers than Hamas so why not cut down on collateral damage and unnecessary infrastructure damage by not performing these so-called "targeted" airstrikes (that annihilate entire blocks)? It's not like Hamas has large military installations.

Gaza is one of the most densely populated. Gaza City's population density is around 10,000 people per square kilometre. No matter what type of "targeted" airstrike is performed, there is bound to be heavy civilian loss. So why not just do a ground invasion?

And another thing about the Fajr-5 rockets:

Why was Hamas not using them before? Why is it using them only when Israel has started its operation?

 

[Terra Firma]

Not only Israel don't want to deny them their basic human rights, Israel sends money to PLO regularly.
More evidence to this is that Israel also doesn't collect millions of dollars from the PLO of electricity debt, and keeps the steady flow of electricity going.

Unfortunately there are a lot of things that prevent Arabs a lot of help, Including:
Mainly security issues, terror, political issues, riots and more.

I am certain that if you knew Israelis real will for peace, and the drive for peace while terrorised, they wouldn't be so wrong in your eyes.

Explain settlements. Those are the biggest threat to any peace yet Israel continues to construct them.

 

[Theman2k]

You can't deny human rights based off the actions of a few. Period. And I lived in the West Bank for seven years; I believe you're really naive, and I mean no disrespect by that.

May I ask, where did you live in the west bank?

On topic, if mortar and bricks donated by other Arab countries to Gaza are used to make smuggling tunnels instead of homes and schools and hospitals by Hamas, they really deny it from themselves.

 

[antonz]

Man I tweeted hoping Israel is shown more mercy than they have shown the Palestinians when the chickens come home to roost and so many Nazi comments and swastika comments.

Tow that Israeli line or automatically a Nazi.

There will never be peace because ISrael has backed itself into a corner where Peace means its own weakness. It has treated Christan and Muslim Palestinians like shit for so long that they have no choice but to continue otherwise they risk the chickens coming home to roost

 

[phalestine]

May I ask, where did you live in the west bank?

On topic, if mortar and bricks donated by other Arab countries to Gaza are used to make smuggling tunnels instead of homes and schools and hospitals by Hamas, they really deny it from themselves.

Beireh, a small town next to Ramallah.

 

[Irobot82]

They are now using Fajr-5 rockets. The range is 75m, well within range of Tel Aviv. In fact, earlier today the Iron Dome intercepted rockets over Tel Aviv.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fajr-5

Fajr-5 rockets fired from Gaza

Fajr-5 launcher

So your picture shows three to four missile trails and a full tractor trailer for each missile. They smuggled in hundreds of these tractor trailers and or rockets? That is a very impressive feat.

 

[Pilgor]

And another thing about the Fajr-5 rockets:

Why was Hamas not using them before? Why is it using them only when Israel has started its operation?

Fajr-5 rockets have been used since December 2012.

Gazans naming newborns after Iran’s Fajr-5 missiles

So your picture shows three to four missile trails and a full tractor trailer for each missile. They smuggled in hundreds of these tractor trailers and or rockets? That is a very impressive feat.

From article linked above:

Iran supplied the Palestinian resistance movement with the technology to develop Fajr-5 rockets, which hit Tel Aviv and al-Quds (Jerusalem).

 

[Theman2k]

Explain settlements. Those are the biggest threat to any peace yet Israel continues to construct them.

Are you sure about that ?
The latest peace talks with PLO started with advanced terms, which they fully accepted, that included the further construction of settlements on the Israeli side.

 

[Cromat]

A question for all you Israel-defenders:

Why not do a full fledged GROUND operation, which results in higher accountability, rather than inflicting "collateral damage" beyond measure? The IDF has obviously better trained units, is better armed, is better armored, and obviously has more numbers than Hamas so why not cut down on collateral damage and unnecessary infrastructure damage by not performing these so-called "targeted" airstrikes (that annihilate entire blocks)? It's not like Hamas has large military installations.

Gaza is one of the most densely populated. Gaza City's population density is around 10,000 people per square kilometre. No matter what type of "targeted" airstrike is performed, there is bound to be heavy civilian loss. So why not just do a ground invasion?

And another thing about the Fajr-5 rockets:

Why was Hamas not using them before? Why is it using them only when Israel has started its operation?

A ground invasion involves a lot of Israeli casualties and isn't necessarily guaranteed to reduce Palestinian casualties. Yes, Israel has the power to take over Gaza but it would come at a huge cost. The Israeli government is elected to defend the Israeli population, including soldiers. It naturally cares more about the lives of Israelis than of Palestinians, as it should. Hamas as the rulers of Gaza have the duty of protecting the Gaza population, and that includes avoiding pointless and costly wars.

The fact is that there is no good military response to the situation in Gaza. If you use airstrikes you will undoubtedly hurt innocents and incur condemnation. If you invade by ground you will hurt innocents, lose soldiers and still face condemnation. Netanyahu knows this and that's why he tried to avoid this. Unfortunately letting the citizens of Israel get shelled is also not an option.

 

[jakomocha]

I have some friends in Israel, hope everything's okay. Stuff like this is never good for either side .

 

[Terra Firma]

Fajr-5 rockets have been used since December 2012.

Gazans naming newborns after Iran’s Fajr-5 missiles

Yeah, used the last time during an "Israeli onslaught on the besieged territory from November 14 to 21, 2012, in which over 160 Palestinians, including women and children, were killed and about 1,200 others were injured."

So, again, used in a defensive position. Why doesn't Hamas use them when Israel is not conducting an invasion of Gaza?

 

[Terra Firma]

Are you sure about that ?
The latest peace talks with PLO started with advanced terms, which they fully accepted, that included the further construction of settlements on the Israeli side.

Can you provide a source?

And can you seriously justify settlements? They have been the major sticking point in almost every peace initiative because Israel rarely if ever concedes. It continues to build and authorize settlement construction even DURING ongoing talks.

A ground invasion involves a lot of Israeli casualties and isn't necessarily guaranteed to reduce Palestinian casualties. Yes, Israel has the power to take over Gaza but it would come at a huge cost. The Israeli government is elected to defend the Israeli population, including soldiers. It naturally cares more about the lives of Israelis than of Palestinians, as it should. Hamas as the rulers of Gaza have the duty of protecting the Gaza population, and that includes avoiding pointless and costly wars.

The fact is that there is no good military response to the situation in Gaza. If you use airstrikes you will undoubtedly hurt innocents and incur condemnation. If you invade by ground you will hurt innocents, lose soldiers and still face condemnation. Netanyahu knows this and that's why he tried to avoid this. Unfortunately letting the citizens of Israel get shelled is also not an option.

A ground invasion would be more dangerous than airstrikes but it will definitely result in better accountability and prevent unnecessary loss of life. And soldiers are supposed to be soldiers. They are not mere civilians. They are trained and well armored. Israel has tanks and other land vehicles to be more precise than their "targeted" airstrikes (that again, level blocks and kill indiscriminately). Furthermore, this is the only way to deal a fatal blow directly to who you are targeting: Hamas. The alternative, which Israel employs, only leads to increased recruitment and support for Hamas. Why do you think Hamas's rating spike during/after these operations in Gaza?

Tell me, exactly how many dead Palestinian civilians are equivalent to a dead IDF soldier? And if it is Hamas' job to protect Palestinians from Israel, then are you saying Hamas is justified in its tactics? After all, if protection of one's own people trumps the safety of those whoa re not your own, then is anything off the table?

 

[m_shortpants]

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Israel's own creation was on the back of some pretty heinous terrorism, although I'd doubt many in Israel would see it that way.

The Palestinians can't win. Lash out they get bombed and more land is stolen. Do nothing, and more land is stolen. The reasons they attack are probably a mix of understandable anger at their situation, genuine hatred of their 'oppressors', and the tactical decision to remind the world of their situation as the world only focuses on the issue when violence flares. Largely their attacks fail on a practical and tactical basis. It's counter productive but their attacks are not exactly without provocation.

QFT.

 

[Particle Physicist]

So I was always curious about what these rockets were made of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket#Rocket_design_and_cost

I don't know if rocket is proper terms. Seems more like a mortar. Made from sugar and fertilizer.

I just want to mention that Qassam rockets have TNT in them, not just sugar and fertilizer. That wiki link actually explains it. They may not take down buildings, but they can certainly kill, so I don't know how anyone can excuse them shooting the rockets into civilian areas, just as I don't understand how people can make excuses for Israel blowing up buildings and cars in heavily populated areas. Both sides seem to be doing some very nasty shit, Israel has the stronger and more well equipped army though, and most definitely seems to react disproportionately quite often.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Are you sure about that ?
The latest peace talks with PLO started with advanced terms, which they fully accepted, that included the further construction of settlements on the Israeli side.

Settlers build 3 outposts in honor of slain teens

 

[m_shortpants]

I just want to mention that Qassam rockets have TNT in them, not just sugar and fertilizer. That wiki link actually explains it. They may not take down buildings, but they can certainly kill, so I don't know how anyone can excuse them shooting the rockets into civilian areas, just as I don;t understand how people can make excuses for Israel blowing up buildings and cars in heavily populated areas. Both sides seem to be doing some very nasty shit, Israel has the stronger and more well equipped army though.

I would argue that the more powerful party has more responsibility. If one strong man has another in a submission hold, no matter how much the weaker one flails the onus to peace is on the stronger.

Israel must stop building settlements. Stop the occupation. Allow the countries to declare statehood. But of course why would they if they can maintain the status quo which is more beneficial for them, with no consequences?

 

[Particle Physicist]

I would argue that the more powerful party has more responsibility. If one strong man has another in a submission hold, no matter how much the weaker one flails the onus to peace is on the stronger.

Israel must stop building settlements. Stop the occupation. Allow the countries to declare statehood. But of course why would they if they can maintain the status quo which is more beneficial for them, with no consequences?

I completely agree, Israel is basically the only side that actually has the power to stop this crap, but it doesn't negate the actions of the other party, it shouldn't give them a free pass either. Innocent civilians should never be targeted by either side.

 

[Theman2k]

Settlers build 3 outposts in honor of slain teens

These are after the peace talks ended earlier this year.

Anyway people, I am here over 3 hours answering question after question.
Answering one argument after another, feeling like someone would hit with a subject that will prove Israel in someway bad. Surly Hamas is free of any allegations then.

No country in the world is perfect, that includes Israel, but a more respectful and balanced discussion can be made here in my opinion.

 

[RustyNails]

Once the court rules to take down a unlawful building, then it gets taken down.
It doesn't matter if a Jew or an Arab build it, There were Jewish homes taken down by curt order too. Something that is against the law in any democracy should not discriminate between gender, race, faith and so on.

This is exactly something an Israeli spokesperson would say. Its what they believe is the truth. When in reality its a cover to expand the demolishing of native owned farms and buildings in order to create new settlements. It is PR. Spin.

How do you honestly believe Israel the bastion of democracy and freedom is upholding zoning laws by destroying native buildings yet at the same time paving the ground to illegally erect settler homes on them. Have you thought about this from a human perspective instead of blind patriotism? I can google eviction of palestinian families from their homes and farms and thousands of results will pop up. Families living in their generational, family owned homes kicked out, their home flattened and a new settler family moving in. All under the pretext of "enforcing the zoning laws". Sure. Watch the documentary where Louis Thereoux goes to the occupied territories. It will open your eyes.

 

[RustyNails]

Fuck it, here's the link: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DduUcPSU_TM

Everyone in this thread should watch it.

 

[Linkhero1]

Fuck it, here's the link: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DduUcPSU_TM

Everyone in this thread should watch it.

I've seen this so many times. Of course some will dismiss it or try to reason this.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Shameful stuff in that thread but I'm not even surprised anymore.

Counted the posts until a moron would regurgitate the usual bullshit about antisemitism not really being hate against Jews. Didn't take long. As always.
[...]

I don't understand how appropriate that it is to cross-reference threads and mix points so let me make a general point to the situation that references the attack on the individual severely bludgeoned (by the look of the blood on the asphalt in the picture in the OP).

The whole "is waving a Nazi flag comparable to waving a Jewish flag" was asked. Are they The same? No. That is a comparison. I made the point that if one sees a Nazi flag as an oppressive symbol (among other horrible things) the perspective exists that the Israeli flag can be seen as a symbol of oppression. You don't have to agree with that, I'm not saying that ALL it is -or that I understand the intricacies of what that flag means to every individual. The same goes for the US flag, i can admit that and harbor no ill will toward the United States, I don't feel like I really fit in other places - America has a lot of different communities and meaning for the Red, White, and Blue.

To not be able to accept that perspective exists, is to not know your "enemy," if that's how it must be framed. Jumping to the antisemitic labeling too? Did you read the thread in question? Is it that easy to just toss that term around? Is there so much pride involved here, in this situation at large, that it has blinded a more clear reflection? Again, its not like I ever said the two flags were equal, just comparable. I'm sorry but if you can't be willing to even compare things, I'd say the Nazi flag invokes a lot of hatred and pain. The Israeli flag is not that to the Israeli people, well generally -most people right?

Should I not wonder why American flags are burned? Why people burn effigies of my leaders? Why a Kurdish man in Sweden might be bludgeoned with iron pipes because he had an Israeli flag in his window? Pride and vengeance are fueling and stoking this conflict.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Fuck it, here's the link: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DduUcPSU_TM

Everyone in this thread should watch it.

I was most impressed with Occupation 101.