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[Beefy]

Making Farage look a victim in this. Cutting him off before he actually answers (even if he does answer with shit). Calling the guy racist etc. Also weird how all the audience have cards. I hate the guy but this will probably end up helping him unless he loses it.

 

[Carl2291]

So assuming that the audience members are plants, looking to make Farage and Cameron fuck up and look silly, they didn't do a very good job with Farage. Quite a calm and controlled performance.

Let's see how the audience is with Dave.

 

[mangochutney]

i realise leave wants to appeal to a varied group of concerns and aren't a government or potential government in of themselves, but it's really odd how close they are to winning without any proper manifesto-esque proposition for what a post brexit britain looks like. the av referendum was very clear, the snp offered up a coherent (albeit ridiculously sparkly) vision of an independent socialist scotland. it leaves us in the rather strange position where leave could get their mandate for leaving fought almost entirely on reducing immigration and then we end up in the european economic area with freedom of movement maintained.

Status quo is never exciting.

Further, there's not a lot of deep understanding by the public at large about us and the EU as a whole.

So what you end up with is immigration on repeat and using that as the blame point for the negative things people see in their lives.

 

[Skele7on]

This programme was brought to you by the in campaign.

The real crime here is how poorly they're editing this complete setup

 

[Hasney]

So assuming that the audience members are plants, looking to make Farage and Cameron fuck up and look silly, they didn't do a very good job with Farage. Quite a calm and controlled performance.

Let's see how the audience is with Dave.

What did he actually say though? How immigration, while being a benefit to GDP, shouldn't look at GDP as the measure... So what measure? About how Britain wouldn't be competitive in the labour market with less immigration, he just said "there's more to Britain than being competitive"... Well, like what? Australian points system is better for black people, despite being a ridiculous claim, didn't say how. He just seemed to say it because it was a black person asking.

Then he says the magic word TERRORISTS like I thought it was going to go off like ankles show word of the day, then says MY PASSPORT SAYS EUROPEAN UNION ON IT!!! Yes, it does. And?

 

[JonathanEx]

This programme was brought to you by the in campaign.

The real crime here is how poorly they're editing this complete setup

At least wait for the rest of the half - they are clearly going with negative views driving all the questions, so it might feel better by the end.

 

[mangochutney]

'The NHS has enough skilled staff.... we don't need migrants...'
'...we need more resources to cope with the demand'.

What is this woman on about.

 

[Thejackburton]

the presenter clearly isn't bias either. constantly interpreting farage and joined in helping argue for an audience member, while cameron gets an easy ride off her.

cameron talks a good game about controlling immigration, but has this country ever controlled immigration since 2004?

The guy with three children made a good point, eu immigration has affected everyone, even former immigrants.

both cameron and farage getting a rough time off the audience here.

'The NHS has enough skilled staff.... we don't need migrants...'
'...we need more resources to cope with the demand'.

What is this woman on about.

one of the reasons there is such a huge demand on the NHS is due to mass immigration.

 

[Carl2291]

What did he actually say though? How immigration, while being a benefit to GDP, shouldn't look at GDP as the measure... So what measure? About how Britain wouldn't be competitive in the labour market with less immigration, he just said "there's more to Britain than being competitive"... Well, like what? Australian points system is better for black people, despite being a ridiculous claim, didn't say how. He just seemed to say it because it was a black person asking.

Then he says the magic word TERRORISTS like I thought it was going to go off like ankles show word of the day, then says MY PASSPORT SAYS EUROPEAN UNION ON IT!!! Yes, it does. And?

That's Farage's thing. He's been saying the same stuff now for Years. It's effective because he says a lot of grey stuff that sounds believable. It worked when he had the 1 on 1 with Clegg, it's probably gonna work tonight.

 

[Hasney]

Jesus, I thought the Sky plants were bad, but the ITV ones are another level. Sky felt like it was the general public, but rehearsed and prepped. These feel like professionals. I'm not sure what they are pros in... Being cunts maybe?

That's Farage's thing. He's been saying the same stuff now for Years. It's effective because he says a lot of grey stuff that sounds believable. It worked when he had the 1 on 1 with Clegg, it's probably gonna work tonight.

True, I wish people could see through it, but it clearly does work. I mean, Cameron here is staying on message and trying to get sound bites off himself. There's fuck all substance in what he's saying either.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

This idiot is our prime minister...

 

[Carl2291]

Got to say, the audience is being far rougher on Cameron than Farage, which is surprising when you consider how much of an easy target Farage is.

The asian guy, the nurse and now this guy talking about sovereignty are tearing him a new one.

 

[mangochutney]

one of the reasons there is such a huge demand on the NHS is due to mass immigration.

Indeed so, health tourism, too.

However, that wasn't the point she was making. She wanted "more resources" whilst at the same time claiming we don't need migrant staff because we already have enough staff.

It was totally nonsensical to me.

 

[JonathanEx]

No word sends people to sleep like sovereignty

 

[Beefy]

Cameron chats about any random shit apart from any question he is asked.

 

[Chinner]

Audience seems much more in favor of leave.

Welps.

 

[Hasney]

Indeed so, health tourism, too.

However, that wasn't the point she was making. She wanted "more resources" whilst at the same time claiming we don't need migrant staff because we already have enough staff.

It was totally nonsensical to me.

Yeah, the resources has very little to do with the EU anyway, just a shitty Tory government. As one of the BBC political correspondents tweeted:

As with Sky show Cameron getting grief for his decisions not connected to EU - downside to PM as remain front man

 

[D4Danger]

fuck sake let him answer the questions and stop stuttering over it

I can't stand this format

 

[Cob32]

No word sends people to sleep like sovereignty

Reminds me of "experiences" during E3.

 

[Beefy]

" I don't like the EU Parliament"

 

[Maztorre]

one of the reasons there is such a huge demand on the NHS is due to mass immigration.

There is massive demand on the NHS because it has been run into the ground by Tory policies to defund and then privatise it. The majority of EU migrants to the UK are young, healthy workers who are contributing more to the NHS via their payslips than they're taking out if they use it. David Cameron will talk around this issue because his own party are seeking to destroy the NHS, it has nothing to do with immigration.

 

[Thejackburton]

imo cameron couldn't explain a single fucking question.

bald guy at the end basically said if we weren't in the EU these foreign criminals wouldn't be here in the first place. Cameron responds with nonsense about an EU warrant and boarder controls. Why does he double down on the boarder controls? we know they are a joke.

There is massive demand on the NHS because it has been run into the ground by Tory policies to defund and then privatise it. The majority of EU migrants to the UK are young, healthy workers who are contributing more to the NHS via their payslips than they're taking out if they use it. David Cameron will talk around this issue because his own party are seeking to destroy the NHS, it has nothing to do with immigration.

NHS had massive demand on it before 2010. Doesn't matter if they are putting money into the NHS, the influx of migrants has caused real strain. All you have to do is look at our schools, places are a premium now in primary level.

 

[JonathanEx]

I think Cameron's done alright and his honesty about annoyances were good, and an argument that it's not about whether you like the EU Parliament.

But I agree with him, so, I suspect everyone else who thinks one thing, think their person won. Sooooooo.

Are there shit spin room shows now? Shit spin rooms are amazing.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

one of the reasons there is such a huge demand on the NHS is due to mass immigration.

Pretty sure it's not due to mass immigration. It's actually due to years of starving the NHS of the funds it need to cope with increased demands from and increasingly older populatio. Migrants generally trend towards to not using public services as much as the local population.

 

[Hasney]

imo cameron couldn't explain a single fucking question.

bald guy at the end basically said if we weren't in the EU these foreign criminals wouldn't be here in the first place. Cameron responds with nonsense about an EU warrant and boarder controls. Why does he double down on the boarder controls? we know they are a joke.

Neither of them explained anything. There was fuck all substance and considering how many people are undecided and don't actually know the real benefits of either side, everyone involved should be fucking called out for it. It's just a goddamn circus.

 

[kmag]

Indeed so, health tourism, too.

However, that wasn't the point she was making. She wanted "more resources" whilst at the same time claiming we don't need migrant staff because we already have enough staff.

It was totally nonsensical to me.

Health tourism. Care to put a number on it?

Let me. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._Exploring_the_Data_-_FULL_REPORT.pdf#page=85

It's between £180m and £240 million per year for deliberate health tourism and about £1.5 billion for accidental health tourism (ie someone visiting the country and breaking a leg etc)

Of that we recover about £500 million a year via reciprocal agreements, of those agreements the primary source is the European Health Insurance Card scheme (£340 million per year).

The main issue is the NHS unwillingness, inability to actually charge especially for minor injuries and visits.

Ultimately, the NHS almost certainly benefits from immigration. We don't produce anywhere near enough Doctors and Nurses and other medical specialists. 26% of NHS Doctors are non British.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Cameron cannot answer questions from the public or debate for shit. He is just awful.

 

[ferrasvansen]

Pretty sure it's not due to mass immigration. It's actually due to years of starving the NHS of the funds it need to cope with increased demands from and increasingly older populatio. Migrants generally trend towards to not using public services as much as the local population.

It's got nothing to do with immigration, same as blaming the poor for the huge benefit bills. In the end the UK population is getting older and living longer and the percentages taken up by the over 65s on both Nhs and Dwp bills is massive. Funny thing is, the population will keep getting older until enough young people come into the UK to reduce it, but let's be honest that's not going to be a popular choice even if it makes total sense.

 

[Chinner]

There is massive demand on the NHS because it has been run into the ground by Tory policies to defund and then privatise it. The majority of EU migrants to the UK are young, healthy workers who are contributing more to the NHS via their payslips than they're taking out if they use it. David Cameron will talk around this issue because his own party are seeking to destroy the NHS, it has nothing to do with immigration.

He was never going to win the NHS debate as the Torys are wrecking it lol. It's obviously easier to make a scapegoat out of immigrants than face the realities of the aging public and under funded NHS.

 

[Beefy]

Neither of them explained anything. There was fuck all substance and considering how many people are undecided and don't actually know the real benefits of either side, everyone involved should be fucking called out for it. It's just a goddamn circus.

Yep, both just chatted shit. Dave didn't try to answer one question, were as Farage mumbled on.

 

[Kathian]

Farage did well here. I think he sold the 'against the EU as a concept' rather well when he highlighted he wants all European countries outside of it.

Cameron will come on and blether. They keep 'highlighting' the economic warnings, why doesn't he just say it - who cares what the experts say. Just say 'Things will get difficult and as a government I can't promise a positive short term economic outlook if we leave and I think we'll lose oppurtunities long term as well'.

Instead its just blethering nonsense. The remain side frustrate me so much. Its basically been the Alistair Darling debate for a week.

 

[Philly40]

imo cameron couldn't explain a single fucking question.

bald guy at the end basically said if we weren't in the EU these foreign criminals wouldn't be here in the first place. Cameron responds with nonsense about an EU warrant and boarder controls. Why does he double down on the boarder controls? we know they are a joke.


NHS had massive demand on it before 2010. Doesn't matter if they are putting money into the NHS, the influx of migrants has caused real strain. All you have to do is look at our schools, places are a premium now in primary level.

Speak Your Brains

 

[Beefy]

I still think what I said before could be true. Cameron doesn't give a shit about leaving.

 

[Jezbollah]

I haven't seen the debate - but I have seen a theory that Farage himself doesn't want a Leave decision from happening "so he can do with UKIP what the SNP did in Scotland after their referendum".

Wow.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I still think what I said before could be true. Cameron doesn't give a shit about leaving.

Cameron's said a number of times in the recent past that Britain would be fine if we left the EU, so it really seems like he's not too bothered what the outcome is.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Might trigger arguments of legitimacy of other elections, I guess.

They put a threshold on the Scottish devolution referendum back in the 70s didn't they? So there's a precedent for it

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Cameron's said a number of times in the recent past that Britain would be fine if we left the EU, so it really seems like he's not too bothered what the outcome is.

He's rich as fuck. Of course he doesn't care. If shit hits the fan ether way, he and the people speaking would be the last ones to feel the effects.

 

[ferrasvansen]

I haven't seen the debate - but I have seen a theory that Farage himself doesn't want a Leave decision from happening "so he can do with UKIP what the SNP did in Scotland after their referendum".

Wow.

Wouldn't be a shock, because if Britain leaves his party is finished, on the other hand it might solidify his core vote which tends to shrink on non European election nights if Britain votes to remain.

 

[Hasney]

The tweets of political correspondents are just finding nice ways to say it was a waste of everyone's time with a couple giving Cameron the edge. A few said the question asking audience were the winners, but fuck that. They were prepped to be and I wish they would call out these choreographed debates.

Cameron's said a number of times in the recent past that Britain would be fine if we left the EU, so it really seems like he's not too bothered what the outcome is.

At the very least, he's trying to find a middle ground. Came on too strong with the world war 3 crap, then now bes saying we'll be fine out of it, but better in.

 

[Maztorre]

NHS had massive demand on it before 2010. Doesn't matter if they are putting money into the NHS, the influx of migrants has caused real strain. All you have to do is look at our schools, places are a premium now in primary level.

There is no point in arguing with you if all you're going to say is "it doesn't matter what you tell me about EU migrants contributions to the NHS, IT'S IMMIGRANTS INNIT." This is literally weeks after historic strikes by NHS staff while the Tory-appointed health minister tries to treat the whole affair like his very own miner's strike moment, after contributing to a book advocating the privatisation of the NHS. But no, it's all them immigrants innit?

Then you bring up schools, another case where in the latest budget they were attempting to force privatisation mere months ago. But no, it's all them immigrants innit?

The reason Cameron can't answer a fucking question about all the problems facing the UK is because these are problems created by his party's ideology, not from membership of the EU. That's the reason both Johnson/Gove/Farage and Cameron/Osborne are peddling bullshit on either side of the debate, they've made the EU a convenient scapegoat for all their shit policies and are now either surprised by or taking advantage of an uninformed electorate that now believes all the crap that was published in the right wing rags over the last few years.

 

[ferrasvansen]

There is no point in arguing with you if all you're going to say is "it doesn't matter what you tell me about EU migrants contributions to the NHS, IT'S IMMIGRANTS INNIT." This is literally weeks after historic strikes by NHS staff while the Tory-appointed health minister tries to treat the whole affair like his very own miner's strike moment, after contributing to a book advocating the privatisation of the NHS. But no, it's all them immigrants innit?

Then you bring up schools, another case where in the latest budget they were attempting to force privatisation mere months ago. But no, it's all them immigrants innit?

The reason Cameron can't answer a fucking question about all the problems facing the UK is because these are problems created by his party's ideology, not from membership of the EU. That's the reason both Johnson/Gove/Farage and Cameron/Osborne are peddling bullshit on either side of the debate, they've made the EU a convenient scapegoat for all their shit policies and are now either surprised by or taking advantage of an uninformed electorate that now believes all the crap that was published in the right wing rags over the last few years.

Thing that I find so darn funny is the talk about protecting the NHS from the leavers, when every leading light in the campaign is an advocate for privatising or breaking it up. It was that which changed both my parents minds, thankfully they remembered the election campaigns and such things before from these anti NHS politicians and having been long term leave supporters they have voted to stay.

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

Farage says the Australian points system would be better for black people. People in the audience applaud. What in the fuck?

Well visa requirements for countries outside of the EU are through the roof, almost protectionist.

He's right on that one.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Ultimately, the NHS almost certainly benefits from immigration. We don't produce anywhere near enough Doctors and Nurses and other medical specialists. 26% of NHS Doctors are non British.

EU immigration? I'm guessing most of those non-British doctors are Indian and Pakistani...

 

[Hasney]

Well visa requirements for countries outside of the EU are through the roof, almost protectionist.

He's right on that one.

Well he's right unless you remember black people are in other EU countries too. They would have a harder time. He just didn't need to bring race into it at all just because it was asked by a black woman.

 

[Izuna]

TFW Cameron is the man backing your view but fails hard at doing so.

" I don't like the EU Parliament"

Noticed this too...

The guy with three children made a good point, eu immigration has affected everyone, even former immigrants.

I don't think he was an immigrant.

 

[Thejackburton]

Then you bring up schools, another case where in the latest budget they were attempting to force privatisation mere months ago. But no, it's all them immigrants innit?

As someone who works in a primary school where the vast majority of the children speak English as a second language compared to ten years ago... What does that have to do with privatisation?

it seems real problems brought on by EU policy is swept under the rug and blamed on Tory privatisation.

 

[Skele7on]

I've been in throughly Brexit bias pubs more balanced than that show fuck.
Funny story my friends and I went out Sunday saw a st George's flag in a pub and it had the words vote out on, my friend who's birthday it was decided it'd be a great idea to ask the barmaid for a pen and scribble it out. Which he did and we then proceeded to nearly get in a fight for writing on the st George's flag.
Needless to say we was kicked out from the pub and we shall not be visiting again.

GG Brexit, that was the shove I needed to vote in /s

 

[Exterminieren]

The flashbacks to the Scottish referendum are getting ever stronger the longer this rolls on.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

I think I must have watched a completely different debate to the rest of you. Cameron looked very composed, answered questions well (especially on prisoners), and finally managed to push a positive patriotic spin to Remain.

Farage divides more than he unites, and definitely puts off a lot of undecided voters.

 

[danowat]

I'm starting to wonder if we actually deserve to be in the EU.

I am in Bulgaria at the moment everyone is multilingual, it feels very European despite them being relatively new to the EU, they still have a strong national identity they still have a strong culture.

Britain just feels so seperate from it all, we're stuck in a time warp where we are still a super power and have just won the world cup.

We speak a lot about immigrants coming to the UK and failing to integrate and yet we pretty much refuse to integrate in Europe, hardly anyone is multilingual, we just expect everyone to speak English, where ever we happen to be, we take a sideways glance at any other nationally because we think they want to take from us.

I am starting to wonder if voting out and emigrating if we do.