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Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016
- Thread starter QuicheFontaine
- Start date
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QuicheFontaine
Member
So I got my letter through saying my application to be added to electoral register was successful, so I can vote now, yey. Now how do I find out where to vote... do they send me something to let me know or for me to take to a place to show that it's me? This whole system confuses me a little.
anonymous_abc
Member
So not only do you ignore all reports and studies pro remain but you also ignore polls that show a neck and neck race?
John_Videogames
Member
You get sent a polling card in the post with your name and address on it, and the location of your nearest polling station.
You don't need to bring this polling card with you (and it says so on the card) - just turn up to the polling station. There's invariably a little old lady with a list of names and addresses on it, and you just tell her who you are.
Thanks. So I'll get a polling card by the 22nd I'm guessing? I hope my nearest station isn't too far away, the 23rd is my birthday so voting will be the first thing I do when I turn 24.
Note the Cameron today
a MP asked him directly that if we vote out, the will of the people need to be listened to and parliament should not use its privilege to somehow fudge the decision like they are thinking of doing by allowing the status quo to continue (like Norway)
He did not answer and just skirted round the issue
a MP asked him directly that if we vote out, the will of the people need to be listened to and parliament should not use its privilege to somehow fudge the decision like they are thinking of doing by allowing the status quo to continue (like Norway)
He did not answer and just skirted round the issue
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Well I got my card like a month back, it should be fine but you may be a bit close to the cutoff to get it in time - if you don't get it, contact your local Electoral Registration Office.
https://www.gov.uk/get-on-electoral-register
To be fair that's his default reaction to everything
Really? The EU is more progressive on lots of fronts. Trusting the Tories or Labour for that matter to enact the number of laws everyday people take for granted is asking a lot, especially when party politics get in the way of good governance.
So not only do you ignore all reports and studies pro remain but you also ignore polls that show a neck and neck race?
report today saying that the polls for leave winning were a anomaly as it was conducted over half term when lots of 'normal' people were away on holiday with the kids so the pollsters could not find a section of people who actually reflect society
http://www.theweek.co.uk/eu-referen...s-was-brexit-boost-just-a-bank-holiday-effect
CharmingCharlie
Member
If I don't want to be on the electoral register then I shouldn't have to be on the electoral register. I don't get why people in this day and age are so hell bent on forcing people to do shit. If someone doesn't want to be on the register that is up to them, they pay the price by not being able to vote but that is their choice, leave them be and let them exercise that choice.
So not only do you ignore all reports and studies pro remain but you also ignore polls that show a neck and neck race?
Yeah you see the reports and studies from the remain side have something in common with the current polls they are both BULLSHIT. I tend to ignore bullshit it makes my life so much easier. The polls are so full of bias these days that is is next to impossible to get an accurate view of what will happen. As far as I aware if it is a poll from an online source it will be heavily in favour of leaving, if it is a phone poll they usually lean towards remaining. Not to mention how hilariously wrong the polls were at the last general election. I mean seriously come on here why are you even given the polls any merit at all.
Even if these polls are somewhat accurate it is still "neck and neck" which means the advantage is still in remains corner. When it actually comes to vote the don't knows will vote remain and I would say a good chunk of Leavers will probably bottle it and vote remain too. There isn't a cats chance in hell Leave will win. The best us Leave guys can hope for is a close result.
anonymous_abc
Member
For one I am a regular reader of http://ukpollingreport.co.uk, so somewhat interested in the wider subject. Check it out it isn't all bullshit.
As we have discussed many times before around here there is a mile wide difference between polling a general election in a FPTP system compared to a straight forward yes or no referendum.
Ask a hundred people at your local pub and post the results and I would argue about their validity.
Ask a couple of hundred randomly selected people who are supposed to represent the wider population, weigh their results somewhat on their self declared likelihood of voting and you have something with merit that is worth taking note of.
At the end of the day I agree with you though, I also think remain will win and has the advantage. However, that doesn't mean the polls are worth taking seriously. I've said for years it's easy to complain and blame everything on Brussels, but when push comes to shove most will tuck their tails in and vote remain...
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Well, for starters, since firms can *buy* the data on the electoral register you tend to get a bit over the average personalised junk mail.
Also, you can be looked up on the register if someone is trying to find you in order to recover money or sue you or something like that. I've chased down a few debtors that way.
Also jury service.
Also, people who move around a lot or have no fixed abode, or if they have a fixed abode they don't want people to know about it (typically concealing the ownership of property from e.g. ex-wives).
anonymous_abc
Member
Well to be fair I don't think all the adjoining rules should be left unchanged if this became mandatory... I.e. stricter privacy rules should undoubtedly be part of the deal.
CharmingCharlie
Member
I agree there is a difference between a poll for a binary choice and a poll for an FPTP system. But here is the thing the poll for FPTP wasn't just "slightly wrong" it was hilariously completely and totally without a shadow of a doubt wrong. They were so wrong it made Mystic Meg look like Nostradamus which leads me to question the competence of these polling companies.
To be honest your poll of randomly selected people will have about as much merit as a poll taken in a pub because at the end of the day the weighting can be wrong, the selection process can be wrong and believe it or not people can lie during a poll. It is time we stopped treating opinion polls as some authoritative measurement. They aren't they are a cute curiosity and little more than a "best guess" as to what will actually happen.
Now from what I can see the latest round up of polls are saying it is 45% to stay and 43% to leave. That is as far from reality as you could possible get. I am expecting the final result to be somewhere along the lines of 60% stay and 40% leave.
Ravensmash
Member
I keep seeing this obviously copied post on social media, where it's trying to clarify what exactly we are voting for (sovereignty apparently)...
One of the points touches on "you are not voting to leave the eea or the wto - most, if not all of Britain's trade deals will remain unless renegotiated" etc.
Is there any truth in this, or is it someone else misunderstanding?
One of the points touches on "you are not voting to leave the eea or the wto - most, if not all of Britain's trade deals will remain unless renegotiated" etc.
Is there any truth in this, or is it someone else misunderstanding?
Silphonica
Banned
Polling stations tend to be in local community centres, primary schools and is normally very close you to. Mines is on my street
That super false as far as I know. All EU related trade agreements would be to be renegotiated.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
It is kind of misleading at least.
First of all, we are voting to (or not to) leave the EEA - since membership is open only to members of the EU and members of EFTA. And Leave campaigners certainly haven't given the impression we will join EFTA judging by the numbers they are bandying about.
Secondly, of course most of Britain's trade deals (in some strict sense) will remain in place - all except the big one with the EU. But we also have benefit of the EU's trade deals - which we will not have.
milanbaros
Member?
I'm expecting the result to not even be close on the day. The media will be saying it is too close to call and big it up. But don't think it will be. Fear will change people's mind on polling day.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I don't think we're at the point of making predictions yet, but I would be astonished if this was less close than the Scottish Indyref.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Remain: You want to leave home, eh? Do you have any idea what this involves?
Leave: Well I know I won't have to put up with your house rules any more. You know, keeping my room tidy, helping out with my little brothers, ironing stuff - IT SUCKS!
Remain: But there's a lot of good things about staying at home too. You've got company, you get to share in the stuff we've got, and ...
Leave: ... BUT YOU MAKE ME PAY RENT!
Remain: You'll have to pay rent wherever you go
Leave: Sure, but I'll save loads from the rent I don't have to pay you. I'll be able to afford my own place, and buy loads of food, and equip three hospitals with what I've got left. Plus, I get to MAKE MY OWN RULES.
Remain: What? Who said that?
Leave: The nice man who promised me candy.
Remain: Oh well, have it your own way. Need a hand packing?
Leave: Can I bring my laundry round on Sundays?
Leave: Well I know I won't have to put up with your house rules any more. You know, keeping my room tidy, helping out with my little brothers, ironing stuff - IT SUCKS!
Remain: But there's a lot of good things about staying at home too. You've got company, you get to share in the stuff we've got, and ...
Leave: ... BUT YOU MAKE ME PAY RENT!
Remain: You'll have to pay rent wherever you go
Leave: Sure, but I'll save loads from the rent I don't have to pay you. I'll be able to afford my own place, and buy loads of food, and equip three hospitals with what I've got left. Plus, I get to MAKE MY OWN RULES.
Remain: What? Who said that?
Leave: The nice man who promised me candy.
Remain: Oh well, have it your own way. Need a hand packing?
Leave: Can I bring my laundry round on Sundays?
Silphonica
Banned
So i dont know what im voting anymore. Both sides have arguments, but i dont really know what the facts are though.
Democratically, I find it weird how the british political system, after being under much scrutiny recently for being undemocratic, and watching laws get passed in which people continuously get protested to fall on deaf ears, to be painted in a more positive light by the brexit campaigners. But I guess at least having a vote is better than none, but at the same time, I dont feel entirely comfortable with our government have no regulations, especially since the tories in the past wanted to scrap the humans rights act from the EU.
Economically again I feel weird. We pay 350 million a week, sounds like a lot, but really isn't,we're not going to be suddenly more economically well off by leaving. Ive seen the fishing industry be cited so frequently, as the EU apparently destroyed it. Yet I work in a company that exists within the UK fishing industry. They didn't destroy it, and all the fish we source must come from sustainable fisheries. From what I understand, fisheries died and shrunk because they refused to make their practices sustainable. And they were relocated, and its not like they went all off land, we have an approved supplier list of all fisheries in the UK and other places like norway and iceland, and while UK fisheries shrunk many grew. Such as peterhead. It's easy to say fisherman fished in waters for centuries, when centuries there used to be a fuck ton of fish while now there is very little. EDIT: side note, the EU also has an initiative to invest in uk fisheries that are sustainable and companies who also source from uk fisheries, ours being one.
Another thing is, where do we stand on companies and tax dodging? We would a lot more operational income if we stopped letting companies avoid tax. Rather than just leaving the EU, we see france cracking down on this now something we should be doing, can this be helped with or without the EU?
Immigration. I'm on a humanitarian stance on this, im not against immigration. But ive heard shit been said like "we could see a sudden influx of 750 million new immigrants because of turkey" I mean, weve taken what 5k immigrants ? and plan to take in 20k total until 2020? I dont understand this issue, the UK has rejected plans before to have to accept mass immigrants, why would that change anytime soon by staying in the eu?
Democratically, I find it weird how the british political system, after being under much scrutiny recently for being undemocratic, and watching laws get passed in which people continuously get protested to fall on deaf ears, to be painted in a more positive light by the brexit campaigners. But I guess at least having a vote is better than none, but at the same time, I dont feel entirely comfortable with our government have no regulations, especially since the tories in the past wanted to scrap the humans rights act from the EU.
Economically again I feel weird. We pay 350 million a week, sounds like a lot, but really isn't,we're not going to be suddenly more economically well off by leaving. Ive seen the fishing industry be cited so frequently, as the EU apparently destroyed it. Yet I work in a company that exists within the UK fishing industry. They didn't destroy it, and all the fish we source must come from sustainable fisheries. From what I understand, fisheries died and shrunk because they refused to make their practices sustainable. And they were relocated, and its not like they went all off land, we have an approved supplier list of all fisheries in the UK and other places like norway and iceland, and while UK fisheries shrunk many grew. Such as peterhead. It's easy to say fisherman fished in waters for centuries, when centuries there used to be a fuck ton of fish while now there is very little. EDIT: side note, the EU also has an initiative to invest in uk fisheries that are sustainable and companies who also source from uk fisheries, ours being one.
Another thing is, where do we stand on companies and tax dodging? We would a lot more operational income if we stopped letting companies avoid tax. Rather than just leaving the EU, we see france cracking down on this now something we should be doing, can this be helped with or without the EU?
Immigration. I'm on a humanitarian stance on this, im not against immigration. But ive heard shit been said like "we could see a sudden influx of 750 million new immigrants because of turkey" I mean, weve taken what 5k immigrants ? and plan to take in 20k total until 2020? I dont understand this issue, the UK has rejected plans before to have to accept mass immigrants, why would that change anytime soon by staying in the eu?
Psychotext
Member
Would they be the same lazy fuckers getting their jobs stolen from them by those goddamn hard working immigrants?
You can opt out of that version though no? Every year I have to tick something to that effect when I get the "have your details changed" mail.
Just one example, 'they' said the same when Romania joined the EU.
Ravensmash
Member
Thanks- I thought that was the case but I suddenly had a moment of worry about my existing beliefs being very factually incorrect.
I like to consider myself clued up, but the amount of misinformation running around is awful.
Haha, I'm not sure - logic doesn't seem to be of concern on a lot of those pages.
I've got to the point where I eagerly read the comments on a juicy article because I can almost predict the outrage.
A news organisation merely quoting an organisation in support of remain leads to floods of comments about how they've been bought off.
Silphonica
Banned
The fact its default unless ticked is shady practices. Im pretty sure online registration forms are not allowed to do that, so why can the govt?
True. I think I should elaborate though, my number was refugees not eastern europeans, we have a significantly larger EEpopulation. I live in practically mini poland. But I question if their presence so bad, considering they contribute to our economy.
It's funny how in this analogy the Leave side are the moody teenagers that can't wait to be 'free', yet most of the Leave voters will be the older 'get rid of these fahkin' immugrants' generation I'd wager.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well, not really. I mean read it again.
Are we voting to leave the EEA? Strictly speaking no, that's not what the vote is on.
Are we voting to leave the WTO? Again no, that's not what the vote is on either.
We're 2/2 so far. Looking pretty good!
Most if not all of Britain's trade deals will stay in place? That's probably true as well. All of the deals negotiated as Britain on a bilateral basis will stay in place. Deals negotiated between other countries and the EU will obviously not apply if we leave the EU.
How many of each deal are there? I don't know, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me to learn that Britain has more bilateral agreements than the EU.
Doesn't really sound "super false" to me, but it looks like you kinda misread it since you start talking about "EU related deals".
Psychotext
Member
Aye, that's a fair point.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I think "having a vote is better than none" is a bit misleading in the light of the sort of legislation that we get from the EU. Most of it, if passed in the UK, would be done by Statutory Instrument - which gets very little scrutiny from Parliament. We'd really just be swapping our civil servants for EU civil servants and very little, if any, more direct influence.
Yes, it's essentially a nearly trivial amount. Besides it isn't £350m a week - the contribution net of the rebate is more like £250m a week, and the net contribution more like £164m a week - which is roughly what it would cost us to do a Norway-like arrangement with the EU. Net benefit roughly zero.
Damn good point.
Massively easier if inside the EU. Or (and this might be some people's aim) by massively cutting UK corporation taxes so all the companies want to come here.
The Turkey thing is just a red rag. Turkey has been trying to get into the EU since 1963. Fifty years on they've satisfied just one out of 35 requirements, and will not be joining any time soon.
But I think your numbers are wrong - the 5k/20k is (I think) specifically asylum-seekers rather than immigrants. Immigration is much much more. Some say about 500k a year, though that is balanced by emigration of about 400k a year. Many of the people I've talked to about this have their own particular bugbears about immigration - whether it is pressure on the NHS, or having non-English speaking nurses in the NHS rather than English-speaking Commonwealth citizens, or Somali refugees, or "masses of Pakis everywhere", or Polish plumbers undercutting UK tradesmen. Everyone has different concerns and it is difficult to find a common theme.
I thin this is the big underlying theme. Personally I don't think it is a problem, but then I don't see it (much) locally.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I'm going by the character and arguments of Johnson and Farage, rather than the age of the voters!
Switzerland is very European, is multi-lingual and is not a member of the EU.
Well, a manifesto promise is a promise! Unless we fail miserably at even attempting to do it, in which case it's an ambition.
Ravensmash
Member
So if my strongest belief for staying in is the European single market, and the benefits that come from trading with our EU partners... then leaving the EU won't have as big an effect as we're led to believe?
I'm still intending to vote in (and always will) but I'm a bit miffed if the financial/trade risks of leaving have been overblown by such a massive proportion.
Phantast2k
Member
Osborne did not say the bolded. That's what the Leave campaign bluntly ascribes to him. And they're disputing that made up claim by citing this article: 16 June 2015: Airbus has 'no intention' of pulling out of UK over EU - BBC News
However, Osborne's argument was based on this: 4 April 2016: Airbus executives write staff letter warning of Brexit dangers | Business | The Guardian
And that's exactly what he said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9kZR7EPv7g&t=10m30s
So even despite of using silly props he's correct in making that assumption about Airbus.
It's still all very much scare tactics. Farage will get just as ripped apart next. What did you think of the rest of the interview?
Frankfurter
Member
Mind linking to an article about what Juncker said?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ten-too-much-to-voters-complains-eus-juncker/
At least Tusk slapped him down. Publically, at least.
Ravensmash
Member
Are Leave really jumping on Osborne for this Turkey comment?
The bloke said he can't see it happening in his lifetime but can't rule out ever...
What's he supposed to say? I haven't seen the actual clip but seems like a fairly level headed answer....
The bloke said he can't see it happening in his lifetime but can't rule out ever...
What's he supposed to say? I haven't seen the actual clip but seems like a fairly level headed answer....
Especially after the whole Germany recognising their genocide thing. They're not joining the EU in any of our lifetimes it would seem.
I can see Turkey using the migrants as blackmail to get something though.
Phantast2k
Member
Well in the end Osborne did not claim that airbus would leave, he just cited that article about Airbus executives' letter to their staff. He wasn't really careless there so I would not equate that to scare tactics. It's based on fact.
Btw. even if he made that explicit claim ("Airbus is going to leave") he would not necessarily be wrong. If they say that they're going to reconsider their future investment they can also mean a phasing out, cessation of operations down the line. You can't uphold production values without new investment.
I'm too busy right now to watch the whole thing, just felt like I should cross-check that one claim. His use of that prop was awkward at best.
Ravensmash
Member
It really sums up how bloody awful this campaign has been on every level.
We're literally going to make a decision which could change the shape of our country - and it might be based on fear mongering and clasping at straws.
This referendum is far too entrenched inside the usual petty party politics that dominate our political landscape.
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