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Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016

Did you vote for the side that is going to win?


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This is the most worrying thing to me. Not for leaving the EU, but all elections in the future. He's literally lying everytime he opens his mouth because he keeps saying £350 million no matter how many times he's called out for it, but the general public are too lazy and stupid to realise this. I'm not saying trust either of them, but Boris is such a fucking snake that he should be 0% "mostly honest".
This is basically going on in more countries. See Trump also.

The media really should start taking some responsibility. If you ask these guys a question and you get an answer you know is bullshit, push them. Ask again. Call them out. Don't just be happy with the soundbite and the ratings. This shit is unacceptable.
 

Hasney

Member
This is basically going on in more countries. See Trump also.

The media really should start taking some responsibility. If you ask these guys a question and you get an answer you know is bullshit, push them. Ask again. Call them out. Don't just be happy with the soundbite and the ratings. This shit is unacceptable.

Yeah, that's true. It should literally have BULLSHIT in the headline the same size as the headline rather than "BORIS SAYS EU COSTS £350 MILLION A WEEK" and somewhere in the text "some people say this might not be true".

Still, if Boris gets a popular vote nationwide, at least we really can claim to be the little America I've always thought our population has wanted us to be politically.
 

Beefy

Member
Yeah, that's true. It should literally have BULLSHIT in the headline the same size as the headline rather than "BORIS SAYS EU COSTS £350 MILLION A WEEK" and somewhere in the text "some people say this might not be true".

Still, if Boris gets a popular vote nationwide, at least we really can claim to be the little America I've always thought our population has wanted us to be politically.

I see it more as people are fed up with politics. Whatever happens the poor/disabled always get shafted and the rich get richer. That's why there are 7m people still not registered to vote, that's the reason many don't vote. That's why you will see more and more people voting against what is seen as the popular decision.
 

Undead

Member
Part of me wants leave to win solely because I want to watch the meltdowns when we have to accept freedom of movement in exchange for access to the single market.

tumblr_inline_n9n9gcBkwR1re0714.gif

However, the more logical part of me wants and still believes remain will win as I don't want to lose freedom to travel to any EU country, lose the EU261 rule or lose cheap foreign currency by having the £ fall.
Also wouldn't be good to be out from under EU control considering how many times they have protected us from our own govt trying to implement unfair laws and rules.
 

Hasney

Member
I see it more as people are fed up with politics. Whatever happens the poor/disabled always get shafted and the rich get richer. That's why there are 7m people still not registered to vote, that's the reason many don't vote. That's why you will see more and more people voting against what is seen as the popular decision.

Not really. Despite its faults with war and the banking sector, things improved quite a bit for the poorest people under the last Labour government. There was quite a lot of "fat" in benefits for the Tories to cut purely because of the work Labour did to help those people. But all they had to do was cry BENEFIT FRAUD (tiny portion of all benefits) and SCROUNGERS and then people who don't rely on these services can feel good about themselves to vote for people who will make life difficult for them.

There's only so many times you can think it's politics fault, because quite frankly a lot of politicians don't want these people if they're not willing to swallow and regurgitate soundbites. Those that educate themselves and engage with politics are the only people who will ever change things, either for the better or worse and if those people aren't willing to make the effort, they can shut their mouth when they want to complain about things affecting them.
 

Beefy

Member
Not really. Despite its faults with war and the banking sector, things improved quite a bit for the poorest people under the last Labour government. There was quite a lot of "fat" in benefits for the Tories to cut purely because of the work Labour did to help those people. But all they had to do was cry BENEFIT FRAUD (tiny portion of all benefits) and SCROUNGERS and then people who don't rely on these services can feel good about themselves to vote for people who will make life difficult for them.

There's only so many times you can think it's politics fault, because quite frankly a lot of politicians don't want these people if they're not willing to swallow and regurgitate soundbites. Those that educate themselves and engage with politics are the only people who will ever change things, either for the better or worse and if those people aren't willing to make the effort, they can shut their mouth when they want to complain about things affecting them.

Labour gave ATOS the contract to give medicals to the sick/disabled, so they aren't really that great. I still see it as some people have just accepted that politics is just rich looking out for the rich. Only 65% voted in the last election and that is the highest in ages, but still pretty low. Yes I get your point, but I also can see why people are fed up with it all.

I can also see Cameron not helping the in campaign. Alot of people have finally woken up and seen how the Tories have treated the poor/disabled and the many cuts now just don't trust the guy.
 

spuckthew

Member
Not voting in a general election I can just about understand: some constituencies are so one-sides that it wouldn't matter if a few supporters of an opposing party voted or not - the result would be the same.

But not voting in a referendum is just dumb. If you don't know, just vote to Remain - you won't lose anything if Remain wins. And if you just don't care, please fuck off to another country already.
 

Beefy

Member
Not voting in a general election I can just about understand: some constituencies are so one-sides that it wouldn't matter if a few supporters of an opposing party voted or not - the result would be the same.

But not voting in a referendum is just dumb. If you don't know, just vote to Remain - you won't lose anything if Remain wins. And if you just don't care, please fuck off to another country already.

It's a persons right not to vote. Not saying I agree with it, but I accept they have a choice . I do think it should be compulsory.
 

Jezbollah

Member
I have been in Italy for the past two and a half weeks. Been great to get away from the referendum bollocks. Dreading returning on Thursday...

One thing that has continued to puzzle and disappoint me is the amount of friends posting absolute garbage shared Leave posts on Facebook, with obvious mid-truths in them, they would be dispelled by a few Google searches. Not only that but these people I know have not had it great in the past few years. That they would happily risk whatever fiscal security they have right now on the basis of such FB shit posts and misinformation while not bothering to research each campaign position properly is so baffling.

What genuinely scares me is people approaching this vote as they would an Election vote, thinking their vote only counts in the short term of five years...
 
Not voting in a general election I can just about understand: some constituencies are so one-sides that it wouldn't matter if a few supporters of an opposing party voted or not - the result would be the same.

But not voting in a referendum is just dumb. If you don't know, just vote to Remain - you won't lose anything if Remain wins. And if you just don't care, please fuck off to another country already.
With votes like this, you might even say: don't show up, then you're happy with how it is now and you vote Remain.

Same thing in our Ukraine referendum in Holland some time ago. Almost 70% of people didn't bother showing up, which tells me they either don't care or are happy to have had the government make the decision.
 

Kelthink

Member
I'm pretty sure my housemate isn't voting. He's got a shitty job with little prospect of moving up the ladder. What's his motivation? Vote to keep things the way they are or (relatively) slightly worse? I imagine there's a fair few other young people who won't vote for the same reason. There's fuck-all hope.
 

spuckthew

Member
It's a persons right not to vote. Not saying I agree with it, but I accept they have a choice . I do think it should be compulsory.

Like I alluded to, under different circumstances I'd agree that it's a person's right to choose whether or not they vote. But this is different; this is a referendum to decide the fate of an entire country.

I also don't understand why someone wouldn't vote on such an issue, and it's probably that which bugs me so much. I can't comprehend the reasoning beyond simply not giving a shit...to which I will point you to the last sentence in my previous post.

With votes like this, you might even say: don't show up, then you're happy with how it is now and you vote Remain.

Same thing in our Ukraine referendum in Holland some time ago. Almost 70% of people didn't bother showing up, which tells me they either don't care or are happy to have had the government make the decision.

Yeah, also this.
 

Pandy

Member
It's a persons right not to vote. Not saying I agree with it, but I accept they have a choice . I do think it should be compulsory.

I agree voting should be compulsory, in all elections, but with the obvious addition of a 'None of the Above' option.

The 'None of the Above' would likely lead to quite a few re-runs though, so it would make more sense to implement something like that when our archaic voting system has moved into the digital age.
 

Beefy

Member
Like I alluded to, under different circumstances I'd agree that it's a person's right to choose whether or not they vote. But this is different; this is a referendum to decide the fate of an entire country.

I also don't understand why someone wouldn't vote on such an issue, and it's probably that which bugs me so much. I can't comprehend the reasoning beyond simply not giving a shit...to which I will point you to the last sentence in my previous post.

Many people are so worn down by life they simply don't care anymore. Many have basically given up after they have seen their family or love ones struggle throughout their lives. As I said for the people that simply can't be arsed I think are idiots and lazy. But some have been trudden over so many times they just give up and go into robot mode.

Like above I think it should be compulsory to vote with the option of none of the above or something like it. That way people who haven't seen any change over different governments still vote.

I agree voting should be compulsory, in all elections, but with the obvious addition of a 'None of the Above' option.

The 'None of the Above' would likely lead to quite a few re-runs though, so it would make more sense to implement something like that when our archaic voting system has moved into the digital age.

Agree

If the turnout is under 70% I'll be so disappointed.

I reckon 68%.
 

Hasney

Member
I'm pretty sure my housemate isn't voting. He's got a shitty job with little prospect of moving up the ladder. What's his motivation? Vote to keep things the way they are or (relatively) slightly worse? I imagine there's a fair few other young people who won't vote for the same reason. There's fuck-all hope.

Surely that it's worth even just an hour of that someone's time, one day, to not make things even minutely worse for everyone, or even just themselves if that's how they think it would go in the event of a leave vote? It's less motivation and more just being lazy at that point. No wonder there's no hope.
If the turnout is under 70% I'll be so disappointed.

Yup, especially after that Scottish turnout. No matter the result, it would be shit if it was under 60% and make me think less of the country again.
 

Vanguard

Member
Not sure what to vote on but I am leaning towards remain and is prob what I will end up voting for. Village near me (live in the sticks) has a lot of exit posters though and nothing much for remain. But saying that, I've had no campaign post for leave but had 5 postcard things for remain excluding the main one they did.
 

smudge

Member
While it would be great to see a 70+% turnout. I know several people who won't be voting. Most of whom aren't even on the electoral role and others because they simply don't care.
 
Harrowing that Leave is starting to push out ahead, I can't believe something this important even got put to a referendum where the majority of voters will do so in ignorance or a feeling that they had made prior to the election and the dissemination of information within this period.
 
This is basically going on in more countries. See Trump also.

The media really should start taking some responsibility. If you ask these guys a question and you get an answer you know is bullshit, push them. Ask again. Call them out. Don't just be happy with the soundbite and the ratings. This shit is unacceptable.

He was on Marr on Sunday and Marr basically did exactly this. I don't think there's much the media can do unless you just stop asking them for their opinion in the first place.
 
I'm gonna guess turnout will be around 70%. But I read somewhere that a lower turnout favours Leave, so I kinda hope it's lower, I guess lol

With votes like this, you might even say: don't show up, then you're happy with how it is now and you vote Remain.

I didn't know we could do this! So the Yes vote in the Scottish Indyref was only like 37%?
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
I am praying that in the next two weeks the Remain camp steps it up a level, because the way things are going I can see us leaving. Their campaign has been lacklustre and allowed Leave to totally dominate the conversation, I don't think they have taken Boris and Farage seriously enough.

I still don't sense that Cameron feels his job is on the line. I despise the man but a Boris/Gove axis in Downing Street would be a horrifying outcome, he has to do more, he should be campaigning as if this were a general election. I don't understand how he could win the last election and not win this referendum. Corbyn has to do a lot more as well, he is allowing his party to slip further towards irrelevance by being so apathetic regarding Europe.
 
I think both sides should want a high turnout. More representative, more legitimate.

I don't know why Cameron didn't include a turnout threshold really? It would have been hard to complain about by the Leave side, and if they set it relatively high (say, 66.6%?) then there would have been a real chance that not enough people would turn out, giving him an easy excuse not to go through with it in the event of a Leave vote.
 
I didn't know we could do this! So the Yes vote in the Scottish Indyref was only like 37%?
Depends on how you look at it. The current referendum aren't made like that, so only actual votes count of course. I don't know if that's the best way. If a lot of people don't show up, to me that says they are OK with the current situation. Otherwise they'd get up and vote.
 
I don't know why Cameron didn't include a turnout threshold really? It would have been hard to complain about by the Leave side, and if they set it relatively high (say, 66.6%?) then there would have been a real chance that not enough people would turn out, giving him an easy excuse not to go through with it in the event of a Leave vote.

Might trigger arguments of legitimacy of other elections, I guess.
 
This is the most worrying thing to me. Not for leaving the EU, but all elections in the future. He's literally lying everytime he opens his mouth

They all lie, hence this enormous systemic fuckup.

From expenses, to nonces, to endless broken promises. If the political class is telling the truth now... Nobody is listening because they've already been caught with their cock in a little boys ass for the 'umpteenth time.

Most of Southern Europe has been gripped by this malaise for years, but they were deemed too unimportant to take notice of.
 

Hasney

Member
They all lie, hence this enormous systemic fuckup.

From expenses, to nonces, to endless broken promises. If the political class is telling the truth now... Nobody is listening because they've already been caught with their cock in a little boys ass for the 'umpteenth time.

Most of Southern Europe has been gripped by this malaise for years, but they were deemed too unimportant to take notice of.

Except people are listening, that's the point. They're still swallowing the lies and regurgitating them.
 
Sky News: Billions Of Pounds Leave UK Ahead Of EU Vote

Some £65bn either left the UK or was converted into other currencies in March and April - the fastest rate since the financial crisis in early 2009.

The figures, published by the Bank of England in its monthly register of banking statistics, represent the first evidence of capital flight from the UK - where money rapidly flows out of a country in response to concerns over economic instability.

(...)


The Bank of England figures, which measure flows of cash in and out of sterling, are volatile but have deteriorated dramatically recently.

In the six months to the end of April, some £77bn left the sterling system.

That compares to a fall of just £2bn in the six months to the end of October 2015.

In March, the first full month of the referendum campaign after Boris Johnson joined the Leave campaign, the outflow was £59bn - the second biggest single-month fall since records began.

Although the numbers could be influenced by a number of other factors - such as changes in the balance of payments and appetite for other currencies - economists said that it is clear that they are being primarily driven by concerns about the referendum.

Simon Ward, chief economist for Henderson Global Investors, said: "Investors are obviously concerned that in the event of a Brexit, the economic outlook will be very uncertain - investors dislike uncertainty - so they want to reduce their exposure to the UK equity and bond markets to reduce that risk."

The Bank of England itself has warned repeatedly about the economic risks posed by a possible Brexit.

(...)

After reading that I googled for an FDI index and found this: A.T. Kearney | GBPC | 2016 FDI Confidence Index ®

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Hasney

Member
I've converted a few thousand of my savings into dollars to hedge my bets. Going to the US in a couple of years anyway so if we don't leave, I can blow it in Vegas. If we do leave, I'll make up the difference buying cheap pounds while we're in economic crisis.

...Unless Trump looks like winning there. I doubt the markets will like that so I'd have to exchange quick in that instance.
 

Tak3n

Banned
I don't know why Cameron didn't include a turnout threshold really? It would have been hard to complain about by the Leave side, and if they set it relatively high (say, 66.6%?) then there would have been a real chance that not enough people would turn out, giving him an easy excuse not to go through with it in the event of a Leave vote.

Because Labour and the Tories regularly get into power with little more than 35% of the vote, they then claim they have a mandate (which clearly they dont)

Ergo it would look fucking ridiculous if he then insisted on a min percent to legitimise the vote...

If we leave we leave
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Does GAF want scans?!

Not needed, it's all available online at Wetherspoons website - I linked to it further up the thread somewhere.

Here it is.

And is it actually a balanced piece? Their boss is one of the business leaders for Leave. It'd be nice if it was even handed but not what I'd expect.

It's more a collection of articles by key figures on both the Leave and Remain sides. Reasonably balanced (except intro by Tim Martin tends towards Leave and there are two articles by Dan Hannan).
 

Empty

Member
i realise leave wants to appeal to a varied group of concerns and aren't a government or potential government in of themselves, but it's really odd how close they are to winning without any proper manifesto-esque proposition for what a post brexit britain looks like. the av referendum was very clear, the snp offered up a coherent (albeit ridiculously sparkly) vision of an independent socialist scotland. it leaves us in the rather strange position where leave could get their mandate for leaving fought almost entirely on reducing immigration and then we end up in the european economic area with freedom of movement maintained.
 

Hasney

Member
i realise leave wants to appeal to a varied group of concerns and aren't a government or potential government in of themselves, but it's really odd how close they are to winning without any proper manifesto-esque proposition for what a post brexit britain looks like. the av referendum was very clear, the snp offered up a coherent (albeit ridiculously sparkly) vision of an independent socialist scotland. it leaves us in the rather strange position where leave could get their mandate for leaving fought almost entirely on reducing immigration and then we end up in the european economic area with freedom of movement maintained.

You're right, the ballot may as well say "FUCK DA EU" and "I like the EU" because everyone just has different opinions of what leaving actually looks like, or how much we leave. There's massively different ideas within the Leave party itself.
 

Maztorre

Member
i realise leave wants to appeal to a varied group of concerns and aren't a government or potential government in of themselves, but it's really odd how close they are to winning without any proper manifesto-esque proposition for what a post brexit britain looks like. the av referendum was very clear, the snp offered up a coherent (albeit ridiculously sparkly) vision of an independent socialist scotland. it leaves us in the rather strange position where leave could get their mandate for leaving fought almost entirely on reducing immigration and then we end up in the european economic area with freedom of movement maintained.

It's almost as if the entire referendum is blatantly about a few right-wingers political careers without a care for the fallout affecting the lives of millions.
 

Hasney

Member
Farage says the Australian points system would be better for black people. People in the audience applaud. What in the fuck?
 
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