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Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016
- Thread starter QuicheFontaine
- Start date
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ClosingADoor
Member
Oh noes, they are taking away my rights to sell illegal timber! What on earth will I do now!Believe it or not, this isn't satire:
Are these supposed to be examples from them of over regulation from Brussels?
CharmingCharlie
Member
Yes I do realise that there will be another referendum in 15 - 20 years time on whether we want to be part of some fucked up United Europe. I also realise that in 15 - 20 years time when we are being given the choice it will be TOO LATE. It is already pretty obvious that the UK is immensely entwined in the EU as it is now. It is going to be pretty damn harsh and difficult to break away as it is, It will be even worse in 15 - 20 years time.
We either break away now and use these 15 - 20 years to try and carve out something for us in the world or we accept that we will be joining an EU superstate. For all intents and purpose this is our referendum on whether we want to be part of an EU superstate, this is our only meaningful chance of avoiding the superstate. In another 15 - 20 years it will be too late and we will have no choice.
ClosingADoor
Member
How is it too late if you have the option to vote No then? If it comes to that "superstate" it would be countries joining willingly. If they don't join, they'll continue operating like now. You are not getting kicked out then suddenly or something.
I really don't get what you are fearful of with this.
Psychotext
Member
I just don't see why I can't have my phosphorus washing powder. Those bastards in Brussels.
Wrestlemania
Banned
I know four people in real life who will be voting leave. One has spouted the usual stuff about red tape, fishing industry going to the shitter etc., one complained about farming subsidies all going to France and something about her holiday home in Greece, one wants out only because he wants there to be zero chance we ever join the euro and the other is an actual white supremacist traditionalist type who's views are so extreme I don't even know where to start. A good bunch.
Orniletter
Banned
Seriously, there is just no getting around those ""evil"" EU regulations for the UK. Might as well take an active part in the whole thing and don't come off as a leech that retreats to times long past of comforting nationalism.
I almost want the brexiters to win to serve as an example for the rest, that you don't seperate what belongs together.
Edit: "Ruining". Just lol.
If that "Ruining Britain" headline is accurate, then I think an editor at the Daily Express got fed up of peddling Leave bullshit and pulled a fast one.
CharmingCharlie
Member
I explained in my post. But I will make it clearer for you. If we leave now it is going to hurt the UK, I am sure you will accept that. It is going to be painful, damaging and it will be an uphill struggle to separate us from the EU as we are now. At least if we leave now we will have 15 - 20 years to prepare ourselves to deal with the EU superstate.
If we wait till there is an actual referendum on whether we want to be a part of the superstate the choice will be meaningless. We will be too ensnared in the EU to leave. If we wait for another 15 - 20 years the next referendum will be "join the EU superstate or face complete and utter destitution by leaving the EU". That is why I say this is our one and only chance to get out of an EU superstate and prepare the UK to compete with it.
Because them bastards in Brussels are ruling us with an iron fist, damn them and their restrictive and draconian rules.
We don't want their rules, good though they may be! /s
ClosingADoor
Member
If the EU becomes a superstate, individual countries will vote to either join or not. If they don't join, they'll continue having relations with that superstate like they do now within the EU. I really really really doubt it will be a "join or get fucked" choice.
If some countries in the EU become a superstate and major player in the world, wouldn't you want close relations, open trade and free movement to make use of that?
We here as a tiny country (Netherlands) have major benefits from being close to a comparative larger state next door by keeping good relations.
ClosingADoor
Member
As far as I know: None. It is impossible to join all those countries in such a short time. In 50-100 years, maybe. But even that has low chances.
Its a miracle the current EU exists already like we have it.
CharmingCharlie
Member
You are living in fantasy land if you think the EU as it is today will continue once the push for an EU superstate happens. The next referendum after this on whether to join the superstate will be just as binary as this one. It will be "join the EU superstate or leave the EU" that will be it. There will be no "oh we like how shit is now so we will stay as we are" option. Any country that votes to not join the EU superstate will be destroyed economically unless that nation has had time to prepare for it (you know just like how the EU is threatening to destroy the UK right now if we leave).
Ah if Juncker and co had their way we would have a United States of Europe in 15 - 20 months. I think he wants a fancy Airforce One plane like Obama's. There is a major push for a United States of Europe that at the moment is on hold due to the referendum. If the UK votes to remain by a sizeable result this will encourage and probably speed up this integration. As for time scale that is a guesstimate, could be a bit longer could be a bit sooner.
Not sure if you're joking or just fucking insane...
I work in Central London, and live out in Zone 6 - and I don't know a single person supporting Leave. My family up in Yorkshire know tonnes of people supporting Leave though.
From my very limited evidence - this demographics breakdown seems to be accurate:
"Highest qualification GCSE or lower" vs "Highest qualification A Level or equivalent" vs "Graduates" ... lol
Linkstrikesback
Member
The implication there being that you think that if we do stay part of the EU, that we won't be able to make something of ourselves in the wider world.
That's pretty foolish, really.
ClosingADoor
Member
It won't be binary. It will be a slow process to integrate certain countries that want to on a government level. The ones that don't want to will not be forced to either join that or leave everything. They will continue operating with open borders, free movement, etc. Of course for things that concern the countries within the EU but not joining that superstate, their influence will go down a bit, because they are smaller, just like right now the UK has more power then let's say a Slovakia or Estonia.
Do you have anything to back this up?
There is literally no way an EU superstate will be created in the next 20 years. None at all. That is not even a discussion.
The amount of changes, negotiations and votes that will take are enormous and will take decades.
QuicheFontaine
Member
There will be plenty of time to just go there when we're still in the EU, before we actually leave.
Audioboxer
Member
Man nearly every time they put the cameras on someone in public voting leave, "Why do you want to leave? Immigrants".
Just like the Euro or Schengen were a "accept it or leave EU" thing, right?
I am voting to remain. How is that gambling on "weird feelings"? Or did you simply not read my post properly.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
It's likely that the set with just GCSEs are largely going to be in or competing for jobs for which there are (or perhaps perceived to be) also migrants competing.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Believe it or not, this isn't satire:
Look at all that red tape. When I was a lad, fruit drinks only had sugar in them. Bloody Brussels ruining my childhood and everything British about it.
/s
CharmingCharlie
Member
Not really we can't even negotiate our own free trade deals with other countries without the EU's say so. It is in the EU's interest to keep us chained down and under control so that we cannot engineer a situation where we can leave and it will only get worse the longer we stay.
I know it will be a slow process, it won't be happen over night. But at the end of the day there will come a tipping point where the choice is put to the UK. Do we want to be part of the EU or do we want to leave. There will be no "oh stay as we are now" and at that point it will be too late to leave without facing complete and utter economic disaster which is why I say it is best to leave NOW rather than later.
No it is just Juncker and co that are fucking insane. I am quite sane thank you very much.
What you mean like the Euro and Schengen which are now MANDATORY. Sure the UK managed to negotiate an opt out years ago but things have changed. Both the Euro and Schengen are now mandatory for any country joining the EU. When they eventually have all 27 countries using the Euro and Schengen do you honestly think they will continue to allow the UK to have their special little opt outs ?
Psychotext
Member
Oddly enough, I saw this stat earlier which says they're just as much of a "threat" to the well educated.
Or they're thick
ClosingADoor
Member
Again, why do you think it will be that way? You seriously think all other EU countries want this at the moment? That is not happening. You'll see more and more laws and regulations becoming the same and after that maybe an EU president and such. That will be your United States of Europe. It will not be like the US at all. No country wants that at the moment.
And the EU didn't try to change that for countries that signed up previously, so what is the problem? Countries getting in now know they will have to adopt that and agree to it. Countries that are already in will not suddenly have their deal changed, it simply doesn't work that way. The UK at the moment has already special opt outs and such that the others don't have and nobody is trying to take it away from them.
You all make it sound like there is some evil master plan behind the EU that wants the UK to stop existing and governing itself. That is simply not the case. Your fear is so alien to me I don't even understand what you are afraid of here.
This is actually an issue in Eastern Europe last I heard. For example Poland has free higher education for everyone. Their youth goes there, gets educated on the universities and then bails the country to other places because they had better prospects there.
10 point lead apprantely, but treat it with caution as it is all Jeremy Corbyns fault apprantely. The issue seems to be Labour supporters not bothering to vote and Westminister are blaming him for his half hearted appraoch.... To be fair to him he is not really pro Europe so it is not fair to expect him to jump from the rafters to stay in
So the way they worked out the 10 point lead is by working out those who won't vote...
PJV3
Member
Corbyn is behaving in a sane manner which is incredibly boring compared to the Tory infighting or claims of doom and misery from either camp.
Yes they would, as they have no way of kicking UK out of the EU, and can't modify the current contracts with the UK without UK's approval.
Yes the EU wants to get toward a more consolidated form of union, which is why they require more for new members, but they won't and can't pass reforms down the throat of exiting members.
JonathanEx
Member
Corbyn's on Channel 4's Last Leg right now if you want to be confused his choice of prominent media interviews. He's doing fairly well actually.
Man some of stuff you hear in the pub, they will outbreed us, nobody in EU except us follows the regulations so we should go alone, can't be any worse. People seem kinda angry about the whole thing. Maybe it's just loud voices but feels like out might happen if stay doesn't get a grip. Seems like poor are blamed for everything has been replaced by immigrants and the public is lapping it up.
ExtremePopcorn
Member
I'm not sure how much stock you can put in that poll, especially given that Vote Leave themselves have said not to trust it.
It also makes a lot of highly unlike and outright wrong claims such as 12% lead for leave in London.
Reddit said:
ferrasvansen
Member
Not a chance London will vote leave, sometimes polls just give strange results and the demographics in that poll were rather odd indeed. I still reckon it's neck and neck right now and will go to the wire, but I suspect people will decide it's just to risky in the end and it's not worth the risk to jobs and our economy, especially just after the recent recession, it would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
It's getting to the point where I will just be glad when it's all over, whatever the outcome is.
Both sides of the government are talking shit, attacking each other and exaggerating the truth, instead of giving us all the real facts.
There are many people who still don't even know what to do this close to the vote, mostly because of government bullshit, its a shambles tbh.
Britain will be fine if we stay or leave but in both outcomes we will be better off when Cameron and his weak government are gone.
Both sides of the government are talking shit, attacking each other and exaggerating the truth, instead of giving us all the real facts.
There are many people who still don't even know what to do this close to the vote, mostly because of government bullshit, its a shambles tbh.
Britain will be fine if we stay or leave but in both outcomes we will be better off when Cameron and his weak government are gone.
JonathanEx
Member
Jeremy Corbyn has been asked if he'd rather have a knob for a nose or a nose for a knob.
He pushed for why there wasn't a third option.
He pushed for why there wasn't a third option.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Lol to be fair, so did Russell Crowe.
Classic Independent. They'll cry wolf if Leave wins, just like they did after the last general election Conservative majority.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
I work in Central London, and live out in Zone 6 - and I don't know a single person supporting Leave. My family up in Yorkshire know tonnes of people supporting Leave though.
From my very limited evidence - this demographics breakdown seems to be accurate:
got a source link please?
Seems to be from this Financial Times article: https://next.ft.com/content/32414e3e-2804-11e6-8b18-91555f2f4fde
Psychotext
Member
I've only just seen the "Lets give our NHS the £350m the EU takes every week." leaflet. Pretty fucking disgusting... I'm amazed that campaigners are allowed to get away with that sort of shit.
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