Or the world cup.
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Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016
- Thread starter QuicheFontaine
- Start date
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milanbaros
Member?
And yet the employment rate is higher now than ever. Is there causation? High employment = high net migration?
QuicheFontaine
Member
I had a German housemate once. He genuinely asked me if England had ever won a World Cup.
I cried tears of pure Yorkshire tea that day.
I don't think anyone was arguing that immigration causes mass unemployment, were they? The main concerns are with public services and housing.
Personally, I think it's more that telling people who are already living in economic insecurity (no good jobs, can't get on the housing ladder etc) that a vote for leave will cause economic insecurity isn't the most effective argument.
ClosingADoor
Member
Some of the arguments from Leave voters are so stupid, only ridicule is left. Sadly that is where we are going with politics these days. When people like Boris and Trump are actual politicians towards people instead of just a laughing stock, something is wrong.
The positives are coupled to the negatives. It is pointed out that when leaving the economy will be hit, so the positive is staying and not let that happen.
The referendum is about changing the current situation. So it is only natural that you look at the things that the referendum will change, not at what happens when things stay the same, because they already are that way and people know what it is.
The government pulls all kinds of tricks to make the unemployment numbers look much better than they really are. For example, anyone under 19 now has to stay on at school, so that's a lot of people who are no longer counted towards unemployment figures.
Psychotext
Member
Well, given EU immigration is a net benefit on the economy, the former should be easy to fix... spending. We really can't blame immigrants for why it's not being fixed though.
Housing is a stickier matter, though voting out of Europe is going to have a pretty meaningful impact on the house building industry... so I wouldn't bank on it fixing it (beside the fact that we're not going to stop or even likely reduce immigration by voting out... well, unless our economy tanks).
Linkstrikesback
Member
So what, they should just start making stuff up as 'positives' even though they're completely untrue, like leave are doing?
Not among people saying this thread. but a large section of the general public that are voting brexit are largely doing it to gain sovereignty so that we can control our boarders and reduce migration into the UK.
yes net migration is 300k+ but that number doesn't mean much without context. what does a net migration of 300k do to our country that is negative and can these issues be reasonable dealt with in a different way rather than reducing migration?
Carl2291
Member
They shouldn't make anything up, they should give us positives of being in the EU. Positive things happening in the future. Positive things the EU gives us now.
Simply trying to refute Leave arguments isn't working IMO.
JonathanEx
Member
I'll keep adding to it so we can track averages but copying a flat version in to the OP would be a good idea.
ClosingADoor
Member
The UK controls its own borders. It's an island and is not in Schengen. You have no problems with illegal immigration because of the EU. See also the shit France has to deal with in Calais because they stop people wanting to go to the UK.
The only thing that is happening is people from Eastern Europe coming over to work there. That is it. If you are against that, I guess you can vote leave. If you think it is worth it to strengthen Europe as a whole (see the development over the years in the Baltic states and Poland for example) then it should be a positive thing.
uncleniccius
Member
19? 18. And not quite true as this school year is the first for that. I'm a year above them - for me it was 17.
I do take your point though.
Count me in for
50% Remain - 50% BREXIT, on a 71% turnout.
Dogs and cats, living together. Mass hysteria.
no chance, it will be like the Scottish one and not as close as people think, roughly 55% remain
SlickShoes
Member
Yep, because the UK is only England.
If your view of the UK as a whole is coloured by one countries idiots then you are as bad as the people whinging about immigration and wanting to leave because of it.
Well England will only be in the tournament for 3 matches, so the idiots have to get all their suit out quick.
ClosingADoor
Member
Isn't England basically the country in the UK making the biggest deal out of the EU? Scotland seems pretty OK with it all, as does Northern Ireland.
They are referred to as English fans across every news and media channel, you know what I meant, and are being pedantic for no reason
yes, and if it was just us voting it would be a landslide for a exit..
Wickerbasket
Member
How is it pedantic to point out that England isn't the UK? What about Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland? Do they get painted with the same brush just because of a set of English football fans?
Anyway, I think we'll be staying in due to the votes of Scotland, Wales and NI.
JonathanEx
Member
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Atr8Mb1up4xLLJXJT1OqPgnqBEF_4iBz0Dbvy9mDWr0/edit?usp=sharing
Updated the chart, shout if you want to tweak or add a turnout.
Updated the chart, shout if you want to tweak or add a turnout.
No, but I'm sure they wouldn't mind losing them to make sure us wankers are gone.
I think Wales is about as split as England?
56%% remain. 44%% leave. 67% turnout.
Take my parents, they live in a nice street that used to be full of families, now many of the homes have been turned into flats/multiple occupancy squeezing more people in largely because we cant build on the green belt. Many of the people who have moved in are migrants so the perception to them is the country is full. Ive managed to persuade them to vote in mainly because of the risks to our home country Northern Ireland
That's because they are English fans. I'm old enough to remember that English football fans once had a dreadful reputation, hijacked by fascist hooligan "firms" like the US Republicans are now by racist, misogynistic homophobes.
Now it seems that they're reverting to type, mostly because of the tensions caused by this stupid referendum.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
The Leave campaign has released a new leaflet calling for the return of traditional British weather.
"Since we joined what was then the EEC (Common Market) there has been an increase in unnaturally Continental weather, starting with the freak summer of 1976," said Nigel Farage "and the traditional British winter that we remember from 1963 is all but dead. We can no longer put up with this interference from Brussels and demand we return control of the weather to Westminster."
David Cameron has responded, " We've always been a part of Europe, and our weather is a proud part of that. I recognise that since 1973 there have even been some rainless days in Wales, but that is a small sacrifice to pay for membership of the biggest continental weather system in the World, barring North America."
"Since we joined what was then the EEC (Common Market) there has been an increase in unnaturally Continental weather, starting with the freak summer of 1976," said Nigel Farage "and the traditional British winter that we remember from 1963 is all but dead. We can no longer put up with this interference from Brussels and demand we return control of the weather to Westminster."
David Cameron has responded, " We've always been a part of Europe, and our weather is a proud part of that. I recognise that since 1973 there have even been some rainless days in Wales, but that is a small sacrifice to pay for membership of the biggest continental weather system in the World, barring North America."
Carl2291
Member
Watch the videos. Read reports from people actually there.
https://twitter.com/alexjonesefc/status/741656432261619712?s=09
Russian Ultras with faces covered out looking for trouble. French Marseille youth out looking for trouble. Multiple reports of groups of English being ambushed and attacked.
But of course, blame the English despite all proof on social media showing otherwise.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
France is on fire every other week.
Yup, sounds like football.
Roberto Larcos
Member
55℅ turnout.
Leave 53%
Remain 47%
Cameron gone within two weeks, May to become PM. Corbyn gone within the month, as his major strongholds for support within the party (youth vote, unions) turn on him for his inaction.
Leave 53%
Remain 47%
Cameron gone within two weeks, May to become PM. Corbyn gone within the month, as his major strongholds for support within the party (youth vote, unions) turn on him for his inaction.
Dont really see what else he can do (Corbyn) as he does not like the EU, the moment he goes like the others he will get panned for being two faced....
Please no. Please.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
May won't be PM if Leave win. She's on the wrong side.
Roberto Larcos
Member
She's barely on either side, and that's why she'll win. She's alienated pretty much nobody within the party.
Boris would pick up pro-Brexit supporters, but he has not endeared himself at all to those who sided with Cameron - and he needs to win over a decent chunk of those to become leader. Osborne's had such a poor year that he's probably going to struggle to win over supporters on his own side.
So let's talk about some positives of EU, or at least what I consider positive things.
1) Trans-European Transport Network
The map you see above is the core network for rail and inland waterways. There are similar corridors for roadways and waterways as well as comprehensive network. The project is mostly implemented by upgrading existing infrastructure but there is also new infrastructure built to close the gaps. While most of the funding comes from the governments themselves, there is additional funding from the EU for it.
2) Erasmus+
I work on Youth Exchanges that are partly funded by Erasmus+. But even without funding the European Union's freedom of movement policy means that I have an ability give opportunities for local youth to go abroad, get international experience, learn new skills and build a network of people easily, with little bureaucratical hurddles.
The youth I work with are mostly with disadvantaged backgrounds, and for many it's the first time they get to get abroad. Of the Youth Exchanges I've been involved in, the experiences have been overwhelmingly positive. Young people have found for example new opportunities or decided on new careers they want to embark on. Few have even emigrated to pursue their dreams that would have been hard to accomplish back home.
From my perspective, EU means opportunity.
3) Research, Science and Innovation
Basically what it says. It's an active policy of not only project funding but also increased international cooperation.
...
Yes, all these could be done on strictly national level and through bi/multilateral agreements. But it would be very complicated to accomplish the level of integration that the EU provides.
Yes, I'm talking about cooperation, freedom of movement and all that. But I really prefer the opportunity of open Europe to raising boundaries through isolation.
1) Trans-European Transport Network
One of the advantages of the union is that you can plan and implement beneficial infrastructure policy on a much bigger scale. Trans-European Transport Network or TEN-T is one such thing. It's all about easing the movement of goods between countries and erasing existing transport bottlenecks.
The map you see above is the core network for rail and inland waterways. There are similar corridors for roadways and waterways as well as comprehensive network. The project is mostly implemented by upgrading existing infrastructure but there is also new infrastructure built to close the gaps. While most of the funding comes from the governments themselves, there is additional funding from the EU for it.
2) Erasmus+
I work on Youth Exchanges that are partly funded by Erasmus+. But even without funding the European Union's freedom of movement policy means that I have an ability give opportunities for local youth to go abroad, get international experience, learn new skills and build a network of people easily, with little bureaucratical hurddles.
The youth I work with are mostly with disadvantaged backgrounds, and for many it's the first time they get to get abroad. Of the Youth Exchanges I've been involved in, the experiences have been overwhelmingly positive. Young people have found for example new opportunities or decided on new careers they want to embark on. Few have even emigrated to pursue their dreams that would have been hard to accomplish back home.
From my perspective, EU means opportunity.
3) Research, Science and Innovation
Basically what it says. It's an active policy of not only project funding but also increased international cooperation.
...
Yes, all these could be done on strictly national level and through bi/multilateral agreements. But it would be very complicated to accomplish the level of integration that the EU provides.
Yes, I'm talking about cooperation, freedom of movement and all that. But I really prefer the opportunity of open Europe to raising boundaries through isolation.
Thejackburton
Banned
as always english fans get shafted by the media as being hooligans. When infact it is always local hooligans and gangs starting shit first with the england fans.
In this case local youths and russian fans. There is an england fan fighting for his life and another was beaten and thrown in the sea.
nobody is saying english football fans are angels and there has been massive issues in the past, but they are no where near as bad as half of these Mediterranean, eastern european football fans.
Corbyns been working pretty hard for remain. He's never once shown to be pro leave during this referendum, and has been making distinctive and positive arguments. Just because few papers are reporting what he's been saying up and down the country doesn't mean that he isn't saying anything.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...land-to-show-solidarity-with-people-across-eu
Poor little things.
PJV3
Member
I think I've read the same thing(it's them not us) today from the fans of several countries.
But America wants to abandon you if you leave...
Not if we get absorbed by them, y'all.
He really isn't. Polling shows that a large number of labour supporters, particularly in the north, aren't actually aware of Corbyn's stance on this. The labour party people I know in London are furious because the party isn't using its resources at all - half-assed sums up the entirety of labours in campaign. Individual MPs are working their ass off for it, but the party levers needed to mobilise labour voters just aren't being pulled at all.
PJV3
Member
How can they not know his stance on the EU, he's for a social Europe and wants to stay in to reform the union from a left wing perspective.
What are they doing up there?
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