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[Psychotext]

I always thought turkey was pricy compared to, say, tuna or processed shit canned meat like spam or corned beef.

Tuna can be very expensive. Not sure where you shop!

I'm not talking about Bronzed Waitrose finest here... I'm talking about solid turkey legs from Asda!

£2.69 a kg vs Asda Smartprice Tuna Chunks (I'd rather be dead) for £4.90 a kg. Could get their Minced Beef for about £4.00 a kg.

If you were living in a council flat your heating and electricity bills would be lower. Even your internet bill would be lower since you wouldn't have access to Virgin Media on an estate.

I didn't actually include anything for internet there. I guess you could get it as cheap as about £60 a year though.

 

[PJV3]

This is exactly right, I work full time and earn a reasonable wage but i would still have to save up for a new PC. No reason for someone on benefits to be able to have the ability to buy a luxury item without some financial planning.

Maybe a lot of these luxuries were paid for with cheap credit (I don't know to be honest) You just needed a pulse during the height of the craziness.

 

[iceatcs]

Look like my benefits didn't change much but it will change the name this week. (No more incapacity benefit, it'll going to called Employed and Support Allowance)

I felt little bad that I got those benefits way too long, and earn way more than "the dole" which I'm getting £190 a week. It is so hard to get a job with my disability.

 

[seb_n]

Maybe a lot of these luxuries were paid for with cheap credit (I don't know to be honest) You just needed a pulse during the height of the craziness.

Not trying to be inflamatory, but what do you mean by this?

 

[PJV3]

Look like my benefits didn't change much but it will change the name this week. (No more incapacity benefit, it'll going to called Employed and Support Allowance)

I felt little bad that I got those benefits way too long and earn way more than "the dole" getting £190 a week, but it is so hard to get a job with my disability.

Don't, if you need it and can't work.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I felt little bad that I got those benefits way too long, and earn way more than "the dole" which I'm getting £190 a week. It is so hard to get a job with my disability.

Dont.

 

[kitch9]

You have to be a real peice of shit to turn a story about 6 children burning to death into that.

It doesn't help that the same guy was on Jeremy Kyle, and various news shows years ago saying that milking benefits was what is intention was and he deserved it.

He set fire to his own house as he thought he should have a better one given to him, but he needed to make it look like an accident so he did it with the kids in bed thinking he could rescue them all and make himself look amazing in the process so he has further cause to get free stuff.

As repulsive as the hyperbolic Daily Mail story is there's a lot of people that get told that they will receive more benefits money and get put higher up the waiting list for better housing for each child they have so they decide that is what they will do.

I'm not sure how that mindset gets fixed as its a catch 22 situation our country has got itself into. The government has been paying extra money for each child a claimant has for years so it can't be easily reversed without massively punishing those who have been playing the benefits game for years.

We do need to draw a line in the sand and stop paying for peoples kids once they hit say 2 or 3 children going forward (Those who already have more can't really lose out so they need to stay as they were.) to nip it in the bud. Philpotts kids were worth nearly £1000.00 per month in benefits to him. TAX FREE.

Look like my benefits didn't change much but it will change the name this week. (No more incapacity benefit, it'll going to called Employed and Support Allowance)

I felt little bad that I got those benefits way too long, and earn way more than "the dole" which I'm getting £190 a week. It is so hard to get a job with my disability.

Don't, you are exactly the type of person the benefits system should be providing maximum help to.

 

[iceatcs]

Probably right, I shouldn't feeling that. I get the feel from my mate were in so bad state when he was unemployed and claiming JSA, glad he's back on the work atm.

 

[PJV3]

Kitch, Philpott is the kind of cunt that would steal from a church collection plate.
We shouldn't be basing our social policy on the actions of fuckwits.

 

[Captain_Spanky]

It's not a myth. I've known loads of families like that.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[kitch9]

Kitch, Philpott is the kind of cunt that would steal from a church collection plate.
We shouldn't be basing our social policy on the actions of fuckwits.

There are plenty of fuckwits with his mindset though. My company works on social housing and I see this day in and day out.

We should base our social policy on the reasonable expectation and sensibilities of the majority.

How many people can have 16 kids and hold a full time job?

 

[PJV3]

There are plenty of fuckwits with his mindset though. My company works on social housing and I see this day in and day out.

We should base our social policy on the reasonable expectation and sensibilities of the majority.

How many people can have 16 kids and hold a full time job?

How do you stop him having 16 kids, these problems existed before the welfare state.
We will end up paying for fuckwits one way or another.

 

[kitch9]

How do you stop him having 16 kids, these problems existed before the welfare state.
We will end up paying for fuckwits one way or another.

Only way to really do it is to set a hard limit as to how many kids the state will pay for. I've got twins on the way and I'm really having to think about my situation financially as me and the mrs currently both work and there's no way she'll be able to. The paradox is that I will probably not get the child benefit is was entitled to and I'll lose the wifes wage if I'm the only one working, but as I'm not entitled to childcare either the wife working would net us around £20.00 a week..... It's going to be tough for the next few years until the kids get to school and the wife can get back working, but that was my choice so I'll stand by it.

Why should we pay these guys a bonus to sit at home shagging all day and popping kids out all over to their financial gain?

 

[PJV3]

Only way to really do it is to set a hard limit as to how many kids the state will pay for. I've got twins on the way and I'm really having to think about my situation financially as me and the mrs currently both work and there's no way she'll be able to.

Why should we pay these guys a bonus to sit at home shagging all day and popping kids out all over to their financial gain?

There will always be families like this, you can cut benefits and gradually return to a victorian age of slums and orphanages, but we will still end up paying one way or another. Unless you're proposing the snip.

The fucker tried to auction the teddies from the neighbours shrine to his children, he's not of this world.

 

[CyclopsRock]

When a guy's as sexy an attractive as he is, girls are gonna shag him, no two ways about it. He's just gonna keep getting his dick wet, he literally can't stop it. The question is, how do we try and help his kids - who've done nothing wrong - whilst simultaneously trying to discourage people from having kids they can't afford to bring up properly.

 

[kitch9]

There will always be families like this, you can cut benefits and gradually return to a victorian age of slums and orphanages, but we will still end up paying one way or another. Unless you're proposing the snip.

I can guarantee that if the state refused to pay for more than say 3 kids, he would have only have had 3 kids because after that point kids would have been costing him.

When a guy's as sexy an attractive as he is, girls are gonna shag him, no two ways about it. He's just gonna keep getting his dick wet, he literally can't stop it. The question is, how do we try and help his kids - who've done nothing wrong - whilst simultaneously trying to discourage people from having kids they can't afford to bring up properly.

Apparently he went dogging on the park and all sorts.

Didn't have a bath of 12 weeks either he said in court...... Nice!

 

[PJV3]

I can guarantee that if the state refused to pay for more than say 3 kids, he would have only have had 3 kids because after that point kids would have been costing him.



Apparently he went dogging on the park and all sorts.

Didn't have a bath of 12 weeks either he said in court...... Nice!

Or he would have his kids begging and stealing, like it used to happen.

 

[kitch9]

Or he would have his kids begging and stealing, like it used to happen.

How many families of 16 kids who work do you see sending their kids out begging and stealing?

 

[PJV3]

How many families of 16 kids who work do you see sending their kids out begging and stealing?

Forgive me, you have lost me, or I'm losing the plot.

I thought we were talking about benefit abuse, people not working, bizarre family lives etc. What have people who (like you and me) don't exist like that got to do with it.

It's not often I agree with Cyclops, but I agree with him on the difficulties of sorting this issue out without damaging children.

The snip is the easiest answer.

 

[kitch9]

Forgive me, you have lost me, or I'm losing the plot.

I thought we were talking about benefit abuse, people not working, bizarre family lives etc. What have people who (like you and me) don't exist like that got to do with it.

It's not often I agree with Cyclops, but I agree with him on the difficulties of sorting this issue out without damaging children.

The snip is the easiest answer.

What I am saying is that you do not see working families with 16 kids because they are forced to maintain a balance in their existence simply to survive.

Benefits leeches like Philpott do not have to maintain that balance because they get everything given to them so they can have 16 kids and get an improvement in their financial position for each one they have, whereas the working family has the opposite happen.

Our social system needs to mirror working people. It just needs to to stop, whether it be the snip, getting ruthless with how many kids and bedrooms will be paid for, whatever, it just needs to be.

 

[PJV3]

What I am saying is that you do not see working families with 16 kids because they are forced to maintain a balance in their existence simply to survive.

Benefits leeches like Philpott do not have to maintain that balance because they get everything given to them so they can have 16 kids and get an improvement in their financial position for each one they have, whereas the working family has the opposite happen.

Our social system needs to mirror working people. It just needs to to stop, whether it be the snip, getting ruthless with how many kids will be paid for, whatever, it just needs to be.

Ok.

My position is that your approach may stop a few people behaving like that.

But I believe from history, these people will carry on existing and behaving the same way. Mainly because a lot of people are just plain old stupid. but other reasons as well, like being a moral vacumn(philpott)


I am actually more concerned about the children of and the people who have to live alongside the problem families.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Look like my benefits didn't change much but it will change the name this week. (No more incapacity benefit, it'll going to called Employed and Support Allowance)

I felt little bad that I got those benefits way too long, and earn way more than "the dole" which I'm getting £190 a week. It is so hard to get a job with my disability.

Bloody hell, why would you feel bad?

This is a perfect example of how disgusting the coalition's message about benefits has been. People who are actually in need of assistance are made to feel bad, less than human for daring to take money from the state.

If we can accuse the media of anything, it's how they've so easily fallen into doing the coalition's nasty work without even questioning it.

 

[daviyoung]

Disability allowance is a different kettle of fish I thought. Not part of these reforms.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Disability allowance is a different kettle of fish I thought. Not part of these reforms.

Nope, they are part of the reforms with some disabled people eventually losing enough to see end up below the poverty line as well having to explain why they have a spare room in their social housing, which means more money out of their pockets.

The claims that councils will be given special funds is a bunch of BS, that money will absorbed by councils, who are haemorrhaging money due to the insistence of this government to freeze council tax rises along with severe cuts and a need to maintain front line services.

 

[PJV3]

Nope, they are part of the reforms with some disabled people eventually losing enough to see end up below the poverty line as well having to explain why they have a spare room in their social housing, which means more money out of their pockets.

The claims that councils will be given special funds is a bunch of BS, that money will absorbed by councils, who are haemorrhaging money due to the insistence of this government to freeze council tax rises along with severe cuts and a need to maintain front line services.

Some council cuts are being done very quietly.
My dad was part of a volunteer service that was cut, they drove the elderly and infirm to medical appointments, chiropodists etc.

Terrible, he tried carrying on by himself but couldn't afford the petrol.

 

[Psychotext]

Some council cuts are being done very quietly.
My dad was part of a volunteer service that was cut, they drove the elderly and infirm to medical appointments, chiropodists etc.

Terrible, he tried carrying on by himself but couldn't afford the petrol.

That sucks. Kudos to your father.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Some council cuts are being done very quietly.
My dad was part of a volunteer service that was cut, they drove the elderly and infirm to medical appointments, chiropodists etc.

Terrible, he tried carrying on by himself but couldn't afford the petrol.

Indeed, these cuts won't make the headlines but they are often the most damaging as people who need them are often the most vulnerable. They also happen to the ones that can't or don't tend to raise a fuss/mostly ignored by the media until something happens.

Your dad sounds like an incredible guy.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Some council cuts are being done very quietly.
My dad was part of a volunteer service that was cut, they drove the elderly and infirm to medical appointments, chiropodists etc.

Terrible, he tried carrying on by himself but couldn't afford the petrol.

My weekend library stuff was cut last month also.

I used to go every weekend to the library to teach kids with mild learning difficulties how to read and write. The council said they couldn't afford to keep it running, but I don't get it since it was in one of their own libraries and we were all doing it for free.

 

[PJV3]

That sucks. Kudos to your father.

Indeed, these cuts won't make the headlines but they are often the most damaging as people who need them are often the most vulnerable. They also happen to the ones that can't or don't tend to raise a fuss/mostly ignored by the media until something happens.

Your dad sounds like an incredible guy.

He's a former communist and a born again christian, so he's got a fairly entertaining outlook on society and social responsibility.

 

[PJV3]

My weekend library stuff was cut last month also.

I used to go every weekend to the library to teach kids with mild learning difficulties how to read and write. The council said they couldn't afford to keep it running, but I don't get it since it was in one of their own libraries and we were all doing it for free.

That's what I find baffling, big society etc.
Perhaps the library is earmarked for closure, a few have gone around here.

 

[Kelthink]

Disability allowance is a different kettle of fish I thought. Not part of these reforms.

Yeah, the PIP has been delayed until late 2015 because they've fucked that one up massively.

EDIT: Sorry, it comes into effect on Monday 8th April.

 

[kitch9]

My weekend library stuff was cut last month also.

I used to go every weekend to the library to teach kids with mild learning difficulties how to read and write. The council said they couldn't afford to keep it running, but I don't get it since it was in one of their own libraries and we were all doing it for free.

Probably didn't want to pay the guy who had to fill out all the hundreds of H&S forms and risk assessments for your activity.

The cynic in me thinks some opposition councils are cutting this type of stuff just for effect....

 

[PJV3]

Probably didn't want to pay the guy who had to fill out all the hundreds of H&S forms and risk assessments for your activity.

The cynic in me thinks some opposition councils are cutting this type of stuff just for effect....

Who knows.

My dads council is LibDem, so that isn't the case there. It's just the cost of the petrol I suppose.

 

[CyclopsRock]

In fairness it's quite difficult to cut spending without hurting those who are in need. Otherwise, why was the money being spend in the first place?

 

[ghst]

it astonishes me that the next election will have an even more repugnant spread of candidates than the last one. i really thought we hit a high water mark.

 

[Nicktendo86]

My weekend library stuff was cut last month also.

I used to go every weekend to the library to teach kids with mild learning difficulties how to read and write. The council said they couldn't afford to keep it running, but I don't get it since it was in one of their own libraries and we were all doing it for free.

Call me cynical but sounds politically motivated to me.

 

[PJV3]

Call me cynical but sounds politically motivated to me.

Well yeah, it's government policy. They froze council tax and have handed new responsibilities to councils.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

That's what I find baffling, big society etc.
Perhaps the library is earmarked for closure, a few have gone around here.

I don't get it either, the library will never close though, it's a freehold owned by a charitable trust who let it to the council for basically no cost other than annual maintenance.

Probably didn't want to pay the guy who had to fill out all the hundreds of H&S forms and risk assessments for your activity.

The cynic in me thinks some opposition councils are cutting this type of stuff just for effect....

Sometimes it is, but I hope not.

Call me cynical but sounds politically motivated to me.

Again, I really hope not. It was a great scheme, a bunch of us would get together on Sundays once a week for about 2 hours and go through basic reading, writing and numeracy with kids who found it difficult to concentrate in class at school. I really thought we were doing something useful for society as a lot of them learned how to read basic stuff and we basically drilled them in vocabulary, grammar and basic multiplication/division. We ran it for about 6 months (Edit, I was there for 6 months, it started in 2010) I would say and a few of the kids were not getting into trouble at school any more and they were really doing well.

If it was politically motivated (scheme started by the Tory council, cut by the new Labour one) then I wouldn't be surprised, but I would be greatly saddened because it was something that helped and all of us donated our time because it was a worthwhile project. More than anything else it gave a lot of these kids a chance because studies show that kids from poorer backgrounds are less likely to be able to read when they start primary school than ones from better off backgrounds which already puts them at a disadvantage. The cynic in me thinks that the scheme was too successful and the councillors took fright at letting poor kids into the good middle class dominated schools so they shut it down. I don't know which scenario is worse.

 

[PJV3]

There must be some costs that you're not aware of, if there aren't any couldn't you carry on without the council, speak to the parents?

Councils are cutting corners and soft targets are the first to go sadly.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

There must be some costs that you're not aware of, if there aren't any couldn't you carry on without the council, speak to the parents?

Councils are cutting corners and soft targets are the first to go sadly.

Sadly most of the parents didn't give a shit beyond them n longer having a free afternoon.

 

[PJV3]

Sadly most of the parents didn't give a shit beyond them n longer having a free afternoon.

I shouldn't laugh, but I did.
Both my sons have Aspergers, so I can understand the free afternoon bit.

Sorry dude.
At least you did something.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

There must be some costs that you're not aware of, if there aren't any couldn't you carry on without the council, speak to the parents?

Councils are cutting corners and soft targets are the first to go sadly.

Cuts in back room staff in councils. Once those people go, the work they did towards these kinds of projects goes with them.

It doesn't seem like much and it probably isn't, but there's a level of planning involved as well as health and safety and general accessibility to the project through letting people know. These are the hidden costs and that's what's been cut.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

My weekend library stuff was cut last month also.

I used to go every weekend to the library to teach kids with mild learning difficulties how to read and write. The council said they couldn't afford to keep it running, but I don't get it since it was in one of their own libraries and we were all doing it for free.

This is just awful, and baffling.

 

[PJV3]

This is just awful, and baffling.

I thought Cameron was providing funding and an army of Big Society reps. Where did they go?
They were being deployed to help projects like the one Zomgbbqftw was doing.

I'm sure it was real, they took the reps into the country for training, and then sent them out into the wild.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

I shouldn't laugh, but I did.
Both my sons have Aspergers, so I can understand the free afternoon bit.

Sorry dude.
At least you did something.

It sucks. However, we got together at the pub recently and are talking to my old school which is now an Academy about using their library to do it. It's not as accessible but since the council no longer have any control over the school we might be able to swing it. And with the help of the school and headmaster who is really awesome hopefully we can get a bigger programme together and help more kids.

I really believe that being able to read and write before starting primary school is so essential for a good start in education. Not being able to do so puts so many kids off learning and stunts their educational career before it even begins.

Cuts in back room staff in councils. Once those people go, the work they did towards these kinds of projects goes with them.

It doesn't seem like much and it probably isn't, but there's a level of planning involved as well as health and safety and general accessibility to the project through letting people know. These are the hidden costs and that's what's been cut.

Well they weren't doing the health and safety assessments, one of the women at the group was filling that in every week and the librarian helped out as well so I'm sure it wasn't her that complained either because she always seemed very keen to help us, she would keep books ready for the group every Sunday and gave us loads of suggestions.

I really don't see what the council did other than give us a contact list of parents to call on their behalf and do some rudimentary data protection stuff. We all had to pay for our own DBS (CRB) check as well. >_<

If there were costs to the council from this then they were very well hidden, honestly if it was cost concerns then we would have gone the charity route and just donated the money and had the council commission our service as a charity. They didn't want us to go down that route so I'm sure it wasn't a monetary concern (though they maintain that excuse). I don't want to believe it was politically motivated or that it was killed because it was too successful, but sadly I don't see any other conclusions.

I thought Cameron was providing funding and an army of Big Society reps. Where did they go?
They were being deployed to help projects like the one Zomgbbqftw was doing.

I'm pretty sure they didn't exist in the first place. This government is all talk no trousers from my experience.

 

[kitch9]

I thought Cameron was providing funding and an army of Big Society reps. Where did they go?
They were being deployed to help projects like the one Zomgbbqftw was doing.

I'm sure it was real, they took the reps into the country for training, and then sent them out into the wild.

Labour council.

They can't be arsed with all that shite. They have a point to prove.

 

[PJV3]

Labour council.

They can't be arsed with all that shite. They have a point to prove.

I'm not going to rule out the possibility of political shenanigans, because I simply don't know why the service was cut.

But before we reach for the tinfoil and start digging bunkers, the fact that we have a government committed to austerity and is freezing council taxes etc shouldn't be totally ignored.

Somethings are going to be cut, rightly or wrongly, I'm assuming you voted for that.

 

[Psychotext]

Labour council.

They can't be arsed with all that shite. They have a point to prove.

It's happening in councils of every persuasion. Why? Because there's fuck all money to go around and anything that isn't essential is going out the window.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I'm not going to rule out the possibility of political shenanigans, because I simply don't know why the service was cut.

But before we reach for the tinfoil and start digging bunkers, the fact that we have a government committed to austerity and is freezing council taxes etc shouldn't be totally ignored.

Somethings are going to be cut, rightly or wrongly, I'm assuming you voted for that.

I didn't vote for free, volunteer services to be cut. This is very fishy, well done with your good work though zomg.

 

[PJV3]

I didn't vote for free, volunteer services to be cut. This is very fishy, well done with your good work though zomg.

Outside of putting in a FOI request, we wont know what happened in Zomg's situation.
A lot of volunteer services still have costs attached though. and they aren't statutory services so they get the chop.