Support NeoGAF

[chadskin]

JP Morgan doesn't agree with May that no deal is better than a bad deal (I know, shocking):

https://markets.jpmorgan.com/research/email/g710g98v/q54fPe_t9deyGVFlz9mRpw/GPS-2229790-0

 

[Dehnus]

Unfortunately the Germans getting too big for their boots in the EU are one of the reasons this has happened.

Merkel and chums thinks they are the Pied Piper of the EU and is one of the main reasons it's struggling.

Ooh? And the UK wasn't you say? Sorry but the English in the UK still thinks they rule the waves and the world. It was only time before it would come to a headbutt with your Nigel constantly comparing the Germans to "NAZIS!" each and every change he got in both Media and discussions. Yet the moment the cameras were off he turned all chummy as he was too scared to get punched in the face.

At least us Norwegians stay polite, that is far more than we can say of you Britts and High and Mighty attitude. Shall we start about the CODwars again? And how you were complete arses then too?

It is easy to point to the germans as the sole blame, when you as well shouldered quite a few if not the majority of the blame for the reasons it is struggling. A tarrif on bank transactions? WHINY ENGLISH TO THE RESCUE OF BIG BANKS! A better cooperation between armies to save costs yet also create a better defense? WHINY ENGLISH TO THE RESCUE OF THEIR OWN DEFENCE INDUSTRY! And those are just two examples of the cases where the WHINEY ENGLISH decided to go "NOOOOONONONONONONONO" with fingers in their ears and being argumentative about every little thing they could find.

HECK you used it far more than ANY other country for your political gain to blame the EU and Germans. SO yes, it isn't surprising that the Germans wend "Okay, let's do it then.....". As this whole crap about "Fourth Reich" and "NAZI" and saluting germans, while the generations currently there have nothing to do with that fucking war, is finally coming around to kick you in the nuts.

And as a Norwegian, proud for not being in the EU, I LOVE IT! You can at least be decent about it and polite, it was about time that they bit back. Nobody has to take that abuse constantly, and beg for you to stay in. Either get out and be polite or stay in and be polite. But don't stay in this twilight zone of wanting "special rights" while insulting everybody else.

Now, I'm not saying Merkel is right in everything, especially socio-economically we have very different points of views. But she at least is a decent human being that stays polite, and that is not something I can say about many of the English representatives. But hey, so much easier to post bloody pictures of her as she led in some refugees isn't it? WHy not add a swastika to that picture? And some other nice NAZI photoshops in there....yeah... that will get her to negotiate with you! .

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Unfortunately the Germans getting too big for their boots in the EU are one of the reasons this has happened.

Merkel and chums thinks they are the Pied Piper of the EU and is one of the main reasons it's struggling.

What has germany done?
Because as I see it, one country is being run by clever compassionate and economically successful politicians, and the other is in shambles.

 

[Sephiroth503]

There's something baffling about the statement "Giving the UK a bad deal would be calamitous self harm for the EU" when the UK are the ones causing their own self harm by voluntarily withdrawing themselves from the single market.

Just seems like an attempt to dupe the British public into thinking that any potential failure of Brexit is also the EU's fault.

 

[Number45]

There's something baffling about the statement "Giving the UK a bad deal would be calamitous self harm for the EU" when the UK are the ones causing their own self harm by voluntarily withdrawing themselves from the single market.

Just seems like an attempt to dupe the British public into thinking that any potential failure of Brexit is also the EU's fault.

It also sounds like a thinly veiled (and largely empty) threat. It's all posturing to be honest - we now know her stance but I'm no more confident that anything like a meaningful plan (or a plan for a plan) is in place, and have to assume she's trying to strong arm the situation around to her favour.

I mean the Mail are doing the legwork for her, but to me it seems like she's trying to style herself into the Iron Lady reborn.

 

[RedSparrows]

There's something baffling about the statement "Giving the UK a bad deal would be calamitous self harm for the EU" when the UK are the ones causing their own self harm by voluntarily withdrawing themselves from the single market.

Just seems like an attempt to dupe the British public into thinking that any potential failure of Brexit is also the EU's fault.

It's all being dressed up as a brave 'clean' 'striking out' on the 'world stage' to affirm British brilliance as against the nasty EU.

It's the specious Leave campaign rhetoric in government.

I hope it works out better than I fear, but the rhetoric is already repulsive.

 

[autumnleaf]

This is what Brexit alwyas reminds me of. Spider-Man being the UK, but not cool in this instance.

 

[Chinner]

Unfortunately the Germans getting too big for their boots in the EU are one of the reasons this has happened.

Merkel and chums thinks they are the Pied Piper of the EU and is one of the main reasons it's struggling.

Nice bait.

 

[KonradLaw]

Obsession for Thatcher is ridiculous. She's no Iron Lady. She just ran away and basically said if they get a bad deal then it was all planned.

With all the Iron Lady's comparisions by trash press rags it's worth it to remind people of this speech by the Margaret Thatcher at Lancaster House in April 1988 http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/107219

 

[Funky Papa]

There's something baffling about the statement "Giving the UK a bad deal would be calamitous self harm for the EU" when the UK are the ones causing their own self harm by voluntarily withdrawing themselves from the single market.

Just seems like an attempt to dupe the British public into thinking that any potential failure of Brexit is also the EU's fault.

The Brexit position has always been about coercion. "We are going to suicide our economy at your doorsteps and you'll have to clean up the mess" is not negotiating in good faith. It's the opposite of it. They know that the EU holds the cards, which is why all this drivel about German cars and prosecco has never been framed as remaining friendly given our mutual interests, but as "look how much damage a hard Brexit would do that to you. It'd be such a shame if we were to be treated like the fully foreign entity we pretend (to want?) to be".

Honestly, the UK (as in the government and the people who voted Leave) don't deserve shit. They wanted a hard, clean Brexit, and that's what they should get, even if that ruins the economy and collapses the international stature of the UK. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The EU would take a hit but it would walk away stronger while blocking the prospects of Russia promoting a Frexit or any other comparable stupidity.

Alas, the EU doesn't work that way, which means that the UK will get some kind of deal, either down the line or in the form of a provisional framework that allows it to trade with the EU for a few years or until a proper deal can be signed. I'm betting it'll be a poor one that will result in the UK paying more for less since the EU can't allow further separatism, but the Tories will get to save face and claim some form of pirric victory, avoiding complete financial ruin while some now healthy industries wither away.

 

[faridmon]

David Davis on Good Morning Britain talking about Singapore, South Africa or South Korea ("all the S'!" he chortled) as a model we could go for as they have great trade deals.

Yeah, Singapore, the tax haven red headed stepchild of the Far East. And with a GDP that's just 10% of ours, ranked 40th in the world.

Or South Africa, ranked 41st.

Or South Korea, ranked 11 with just over half of our GDP.

Amazing.

When I think of good places to work and live on an average salary, these countries are last on my list.

Bloody hell, we are getting fucked aren't we?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Those countries are fine....if you are rich.

 

[iapetus]

It's also worth remembering that 4 out of 10 Scots voted to leave (just like 4 in 10 Londoners and 4 in 10 mackems voted to remain). By looking at regions as whole blocks we have lost a lot of granularity. Right now in Scotland there are millions of people happy with what's going on right now.

Remember that only a fraction of the leave voters are happy with what's going on right now. This is the equivalent of remain winning by a narrow margin, and treating that as a mandate to ditch all our special agreements with the EU, join the Euro, and commit to a European superstate by 2024. Anyone who voted to leave with the belief that we'd still be in a happy trade position with Europe (and the leave side were promising us all the advantages with none of the disadvantages) is just as fucked.

 

[theaface]

It's also worth remembering that 4 out of 10 Scots voted to leave (just like 4 in 10 Londoners and 4 in 10 mackems voted to remain). By looking at regions as whole blocks we have lost a lot of granularity. Right now in Scotland there are millions of people happy with what's going on right now.

It's worth remembering that just shy of half of the UK don't want this, yet here we are spiralling towards the most severe of leave circumstances. Where's the granularity there? Where's the action to back up the talk of uniting the country? Sick of people talking about the 40% of Scottish leave voters when the overall vote was so close and yet the millions of remain voters are told to fall in line and get over it. You would think that the closeness of the vote would be a compelling argument for a softer exit but no, burn it all down after 4 percentage points apparently.

May's speech read as a big 'too bad, you lost, suck it up' to remain voters and the entire position of the government seems to be as if the question on the ballot was regarding a far more drastic separation from Europe than they actually have a mandate for. She can, frankly, stick her talk of unity of her arse.

 

[Goodlife]

It's worth remembering that just shy of half of the UK don't want this, yet here we are spiralling towards the most severe of leave circumstances. Where's the granularity there? Where's the action to back up the talk of uniting the country? Sick of people talking about the 40% of Scottish leave voters when the overall vote was so close and yet the millions of remain voters are told to fall in line and get over it. You would think that the closeness of the vote would be a compelling argument for a softer exit but no, burn it all down after 4 percentage points apparently.

May's speech read as a big 'too bad, you lost, suck it up' to remain voters and the entire position of the government seems to be as if the question on the ballot was regarding a far more drastic separation from Europe than they actually have a mandate for. She can, frankly, stick her talk of unity of her arse.

Well fucking said.
If remain had won 51 to 49, how would people have reacted of the government took that as a mandate to join the single currency and shengen zone?

 

[Burai]

When I think of good places to work and live on an average salary, these countries are last on my list.

Bloody hell, we are getting fucked aren't we?

Particularly when the argument against that is "Wouldn't we rather be as successful as Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Holland, Sweden, Belgium, Poland, Austria, Ireland and Denmark?" They all rank ahead of Singapore and South Africa and are all in the EU.

Poland, in fact, have nearly double the GDP of Singapore, in spite of having no tax haven status, in spite of being in the "failing" EU and, most damningly, being the place all of my Polish friends left because "you can make more money flipping burgers in McDonalds in Bournemouth than you can working as a teacher in Krakow."

And we really want to model our economy after a country that's 15 places below them in the GDP table? It's madness.

 

[faridmon]

Particularly when the argument against that is "Wouldn't we rather be as successful as Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Holland, Sweden, Belgium, Poland, Austria, Ireland and Denmark?" They all rank ahead of Singapore and South Africa and are all in the EU.

Poland, in fact, have nearly double the GDP of Singapore, in spite of having no tax haven status, in spite of being in the "failing" EU and, most damningly, being the place all of my Polish friends left because "you can make more money flipping burgers in McDonalds in Bournemouth than you can working as a teacher in Krakow."

And we really want to model our economy after a country that's 15 places below them in the GDP table? It's madness.

Yeah, not only that, but these countries are not exactly known for their good living standards for the working class and even middle class. The hospital charges alone will break your bank.

I think UK is heading towards a capitalist economy and that is very scary outlook considering I earn less than 15k a year.

 

[SKINNER!]

David Davis on Good Morning Britain talking about Singapore, South Africa or South Korea ("all the S'!" he chortled) as a model we could go for as they have great trade deals.

Yeah, Singapore, the tax haven red headed stepchild of the Far East. And with a GDP that's just 10% of ours, ranked 40th in the world.

Or South Africa, ranked 41st.

Or South Korea, ranked 11 with just over half of our GDP.

Amazing.

Thing is, he's looking at South Africa, South Korea and Singapore from the perspective of the rich corrupt political elite who are able to reap the monetary benefits with ease. Yes! Let's strive to be like those nations!

The only people who'll suffer from this are the average worker.

When I think of good places to work and live on an average salary, these countries are last on my list.

Bloody hell, we are getting fucked aren't we?

Yup. Unless you're the son/daughter of an influencial/corrupt business person and/or politician. Otherwise, be ready to board the dirty money train.

 

[travisbickle]

South Korea has a state-supported health system. The dentist is cheaper here than the UK.

 

[RedSparrows]

It's worth remembering that just shy of half of the UK don't want this, yet here we are spiralling towards the most severe of leave circumstances. Where's the granularity there? Where's the action to back up the talk of uniting the country? Sick of people talking about the 40% of Scottish leave voters when the overall vote was so close and yet the millions of remain voters are told to fall in line and get over it. You would think that the closeness of the vote would be a compelling argument for a softer exit but no, burn it all down after 4 percentage points apparently.

May's speech read as a big 'too bad, you lost, suck it up' to remain voters and the entire position of the government seems to be as if the question on the ballot was regarding a far more drastic separation from Europe than they actually have a mandate for. She can, frankly, stick her talk of unity of her arse.

Preach, brother/sister. Preach.

 

[Coxy100]

Ooh? And the UK wasn't you say? Sorry but the English in the UK still thinks they rule the waves and the world. It was only time before it would come to a headbutt with your Nigel constantly comparing the Germans to "NAZIS!" each and every change he got in both Media and discussions. Yet the moment the cameras were off he turned all chummy as he was too scared to get punched in the face.

At least us Norwegians stay polite, that is far more than we can say of you Britts and High and Mighty attitude. Shall we start about the CODwars again? And how you were complete arses then too?

It is easy to point to the germans as the sole blame, when you as well shouldered quite a few if not the majority of the blame for the reasons it is struggling. A tarrif on bank transactions? WHINY ENGLISH TO THE RESCUE OF BIG BANKS! A better cooperation between armies to save costs yet also create a better defense? WHINY ENGLISH TO THE RESCUE OF THEIR OWN DEFENCE INDUSTRY! And those are just two examples of the cases where the WHINEY ENGLISH decided to go "NOOOOONONONONONONONO" with fingers in their ears and being argumentative about every little thing they could find.

HECK you used it far more than ANY other country for your political gain to blame the EU and Germans. SO yes, it isn't surprising that the Germans wend "Okay, let's do it then.....". As this whole crap about "Fourth Reich" and "NAZI" and saluting germans, while the generations currently there have nothing to do with that fucking war, is finally coming around to kick you in the nuts.

And as a Norwegian, proud for not being in the EU, I LOVE IT! You can at least be decent about it and polite, it was about time that they bit back. Nobody has to take that abuse constantly, and beg for you to stay in. Either get out and be polite or stay in and be polite. But don't stay in this twilight zone of wanting "special rights" while insulting everybody else.

Now, I'm not saying Merkel is right in everything, especially socio-economically we have very different points of views. But she at least is a decent human being that stays polite, and that is not something I can say about many of the English representatives. But hey, so much easier to post bloody pictures of her as she led in some refugees isn't it? WHy not add a swastika to that picture? And some other nice NAZI photoshops in there....yeah... that will get her to negotiate with you! .

Were you drunk when you wrote this?

 

[kmag]

Well the pound is giving the Rand a good go of it in world most tankiest currency

 

[Coxy100]

It's worth remembering that just shy of half of the UK don't want this, yet here we are spiralling towards the most severe of leave circumstances. Where's the granularity there? Where's the action to back up the talk of uniting the country? Sick of people talking about the 40% of Scottish leave voters when the overall vote was so close and yet the millions of remain voters are told to fall in line and get over it. You would think that the closeness of the vote would be a compelling argument for a softer exit but no, burn it all down after 4 percentage points apparently.

May's speech read as a big 'too bad, you lost, suck it up' to remain voters and the entire position of the government seems to be as if the question on the ballot was regarding a far more drastic separation from Europe than they actually have a mandate for. She can, frankly, stick her talk of unity of her arse.

To be fair it's actually about a third. Yes half of the vote was to remain. But a third of the population didn't even vote. So a third cant't be arsed - a third want to remain - and a third want to be idiots and leave

Hate our country right now - if only we had a decent opposition party

 

[sasliquid]

As part of the filthy London elite it's also important to point out the young who strongly voted against Brexit will suffer from it the most

Same for the most well educated

Also Londons gdp is like 20% of the UK economy and voted against it. Still want an independent London pls, our economy is 10x the size of wales

 

[StayDead]

It's worth remembering that just shy of half of the UK don't want this, yet here we are spiralling towards the most severe of leave circumstances. Where's the granularity there? Where's the action to back up the talk of uniting the country? Sick of people talking about the 40% of Scottish leave voters when the overall vote was so close and yet the millions of remain voters are told to fall in line and get over it. You would think that the closeness of the vote would be a compelling argument for a softer exit but no, burn it all down after 4 percentage points apparently.

May's speech read as a big 'too bad, you lost, suck it up' to remain voters and the entire position of the government seems to be as if the question on the ballot was regarding a far more drastic separation from Europe than they actually have a mandate for. She can, frankly, stick her talk of unity of her arse.

Remember as well that it was only just shy of half the VOTING UK that doesn't want this. Yes, it's their fault for not voting, but still there's a good number of the UK we don't know what they want. It does suck that the vote was so close, remain lost and now rather than accept that maybe this isn't a good idea our government are happy to throw everything away to please idiots. I feel physically sick, because as I said yesterday these people have all voted to basically destroy the rest of their lives.

 

[ittoryu]

Were you drunk when you wrote this?

Well, bottom line is true though.

 

[gofreak]

I was just thinking how attractive an Irish passport is right now.

Irish citizens have the right to travel and live/work in the UK under the Government of Ireland act, and vice versa (which predates the EU by ages - and given that virtually every Irish citizen could claim British citizenship it's pointless to ever change it).

It's an EU passport so gives full access there too.

Lack of customs agreement would be terrible for Northern Ireland and the Republic though. And border controls may still be necessary to stop the Republic becoming a gateway for other unchecked immigration from other EU citizens. I imagine, unfortunately, passport control will probably have to be introduced for Irish flights into the UK now too. It's going to be really hard to balance those concerns with the need for as transparent a border as possible with the North.

 

[affleck1981]

Unfortunately the Germans getting too big for their boots in the EU are one of the reasons this has happened.

Merkel and chums thinks they are the Pied Piper of the EU and is one of the main reasons it's struggling.

George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.


You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.

What was that, sir?

It was bollocks.

 

[kmag]

I was just thinking how attractive an Irish passport is right now.

Irish citizens have the right to travel and live/work in the UK under the Government of Ireland act, and vice versa (which predates the EU by ages - and given that virtually every Irish citizen could claim British citizenship it's pointless to ever change it).

It's an EU passport so gives full access there too.

Lack of customs agreement would be terrible for Northern Ireland and the Republic though. And border controls may still be necessary to stop the Republic becoming a gateway for other unchecked immigration from other EU citizens. I imagine, unfortunately, passport control will probably have to be introduced for Irish flights into the UK now too. It's going to be really hard to balance those concerns with the need for as transparent a border as possible with the North.

There's not going to be a customs arrangement. The UK wants partial per sector customs union (we think, May couldn't have been vaguer on the issue) on which isn't possible under WTO GATT rules, which states any customs agreement must cover the majority of the trade between nations. The UK will be a 3rd party, the EU has to treat them same way they treat everyone else and vice versa, the only exceptions are MRA agreements which still require customs checks but allow for mutual recognition of standards (i.e if a pillow is certified as safe in the UK it's safe in the EU and there's no need to do additional compliance testing at the EU end)

Regardless of the optimism from the UK and ROI, there will need to be some border arrangement between the EU and the UK on the ROI/NI border even if it's only for customs.

 

[faridmon]

South Korea has a state-supported health system. The dentist is cheaper here than the UK.

Yeah, well it won't be state supported here in UK when the Tax is reduced that much. Thats for sure.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Is there a source for this?

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/ass...sumption_in_the_uk_2015_executive_summary.pdf

The top two news sources, in terms of reach among UK adults, are both TV channels. BBC
One is by far the most-used (at 48%), followed by ITV/ ITV Wales/ UTV/ STV News, wiith
just over a quarter (27%) of people saying they use it as a source of news. BBC One has
had a five percentage point decrease in reach since 2014 (53%). The BBC website or app
remains the third most-used news source: just under a quarter (23%) of people say they use
it. The BBC News Channel comes next (at 14%), followed by the Sky News channel (12%)
which decreased by five percentage points since 2014. Facebook5
is now the joint-fifth
highest news source in terms of reach, used by 12% of UK adults, an increase of five
percentage points since 2014. The most-used radio stations are BBC Radio 4 and BBC
Radio 2 (both 8%), while the most-used newspapers are The Sun and the Daily Mail (both 6%) (figure 2.6).

It's worth remembering that 4.5 in 10 Scots didn't want to be tied to this mess in the first place. I keep hearing about the percentage of Scots who voted to leave the EU as if that's who we really should be paying attention to when we talk about Scotlands place in all of this, never really hear about the larger proportion of Scots who simply don't want to be part of right wing jerk off.

Of course, I'm not denying the majority, but it seems a bit arbitrary; If 500,000 Leave voters from the North East swapped houses with 500,000 Remain voters in Scotland before the referendum, the result would have been exactly the same. A person in Scotland taken out of the EU against their desires is no different than a person in Sunderland taken out of the EU against their desires; The only difference is that a few extra neighbours in Scotland agree.

Remember that only a fraction of the leave voters are happy with what's going on right now. This is the equivalent of remain winning by a narrow margin, and treating that as a mandate to ditch all our special agreements with the EU, join the Euro, and commit to a European superstate by 2024. Anyone who voted to leave with the belief that we'd still be in a happy trade position with Europe (and the leave side were promising us all the advantages with none of the disadvantages) is just as fucked.

Do you have a source for the claim in your first sentence? I'm curious about it, because until yesterday nothing actually was "going on right now". Even now it's not really. And it's clearly different to if Remain had won, because that was inherently a vote for the status quo. It was impossible to table the different variations of Brexit on the referendum, so some degree of uncertainty in the outcome was baked in to the Leave vote in the first place. Even people with a strong idea of what they wanted out of Brexit knew that they didn't know that this idea would be implemented (which can't be said of Remain voters).

 

[danowat]

So Bojo reckons countries are queuing up to sign a trade deal with the UK?, are they really?, I mean I get that he has more inside information than us, but I am still skeptical about this claim.

On a slightly unrelated note, I hear that unemployment is down again, but also people in employment is also down, I would have thought the two were tied together somewhat?

 

[Audioboxer]

It's also worth remembering that 4 out of 10 Scots voted to leave (just like 4 in 10 Londoners and 4 in 10 mackems voted to remain). By looking at regions as whole blocks we have lost a lot of granularity. Right now in Scotland there are millions of people happy with what's going on right now.

Not quite. Pretty much 1m exactly voted leave. You're overestimating the population size of this place lol.

If you're going to focus on the numbers anyway, 62% vs 38% is a much bigger difference than 52% vs 48%.

 

[Timbuktu]

As part of the filthy London elite it's also important to point out the young who strongly voted against Brexit will suffer from it the most

Same for the most well educated

Not sure about that. The most educated remainers would also likely to be the most mobile and most able to retrain to cope with the changes or relocate if necessary. The poor always suffer the most, even when they themselves voted for it.

The young has be shafted for a while, even without Brexit, since they figured that the young don't vote.

 

[RedSparrows]

So Bojo reckons countries are queuing up to sign a trade deal with the UK?, are they really?, I mean I get that he has more inside information than us, but I am still skeptical about this claim.

Say countries are 'queuing up', the point is not that there won't be 'any deals', it's that the value calculation of said deals and the effort and time it takes to create them is assumed to be a good one. That's the implication their whole shtick runs on, and yet it's thing that's in most doubt.

They keep talking about the fact that there WILL be deals, not HOW those deals will look. And not really mentioning, beyond 'oh EU red tape' about how we'll be tearing up loads of deals as is. The economic picture presented by Leave, and now the government, is one of a Britain utterly unable to make any money at all, somehow intrinsically insulated from the outside world, and anyway, the Euro looks shakey. How this sits with the social picture - immigration, anti-globalisation, isolationism, is based on flat out deceit and ignorance, at least a good deal of the time. Thus 'we'll get the new deals' rests on an implication that a) these deals will in no way have any 'bad' effects, a la current deals, b) they will be good by the mere virtue of existing, and c) that they'll be better than EEA FTAs etc because, uh, EU.

 

[kmag]

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/ass...sumption_in_the_uk_2015_executive_summary.pdf





Of course, I'm not denying the majority, but it seems a bit arbitrary; If 500,000 Leave voters from the North East swapped houses with 500,000 Remain voters in Scotland before the referendum, the result would have been exactly the same. A person in Scotland taken out of the EU against their desires is no different than a person in Sunderland taken out of the EU against their desires; The only difference is that a few extra neighbours in Scotland agree.



Do you have a source for the claim in your first sentence? I'm curious about it, because until yesterday nothing actually was "going on right now". Even now it's not really. And it's clearly different to if Remain had won, because that was inherently a vote for the status quo. It was impossible to table the different variations of Brexit on the referendum, so some degree of uncertainty in the outcome was baked in to the Leave vote in the first place. Even people with a strong idea of what they wanted out of Brexit knew that they didn't know that this idea would be implemented (which can't be said of Remain voters).

Scotland is a nation. The UK is, or is meant to be at least, a union of nations. Sunderland is not a nation. Practically, yes there's little difference given the lack of protection of that fact in the UK "constitution", but culturally that's how Scotland identifies itself. You might not like, or understand it but that doesn't change the perception up here.

In terms of Leavers/Remainers attitutes. YouGov had the following this week

Hard Brexit which is what we're getting at 39% percent. Soft/No Brexit at 48%, usual caveats about YouGov apply.

 

[norinrad]

When I think of good places to work and live on an average salary, these countries are last on my list.

Bloody hell, we are getting fucked aren't we?

YES, the rich will survive though.

I find it funny that everyone including none politicians and posters on here always using, "making a deal, getting the best deal" as if its some kind of an organized crime.

 

[Rodelero]

As part of the filthy London elite it's also important to point out the young who strongly voted against Brexit will suffer from it the most

Same for the most well educated

Also Londons gdp is like 20% of the UK economy and voted against it. Still want an independent London pls, our economy is 10x the size of wales

That's highly unlikely. The most well educated rise to the top regardless of circumstances, and in a country that is going to be ever more divided, and ever more unequal (whatever Theresa 'Fairness' May thinks), this will be ever more true.

The young, on the other hand, undoubtedly stand to suffer the most. Even then, the young, well educated, will be okay, and the young, with wealthy parents, will be okay. Everyone else? Eek.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Also Londons gdp is like 20% of the UK economy and voted against it. Still want an independent London pls, our economy is 10x the size of wales

Your house prices are also 10x those of Wales, and yet wages aren't. The living standard for people in London who aren't on megabucks is horrible.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

So Bojo reckons countries are queuing up to sign a trade deal with the UK?, are they really?, I mean I get that he has more inside information than us, but I am still skeptical about this claim

Obviously Donald Trump wants a free trade deal with the UK, despite not wanting a free trade deal with the EU. That's what Bojo is talking about.

 

[kmag]

Boris Johnson invoking Godwins Law.

If Mr Hollande wants to administer punishment beatings to anybody who seeks to escape [the EU], in the manner of some world war two movie, I don’t think that is the way forward, and it’s not in the interests of our friends and partners.

It seems absolutely incredible to me that in the 21st century member states of the EU should be seriously contemplating the reintroduction of tariffs or whatever to administer punishment to the UK.

 

[kmag]

Obviously Donald Trump wants a free trade deal with the UK, despite not wanting a free trade deal with the EU. That's what Bojo is talking about.

I've got a feeling that the UK public won't like the detail of Trumps proposed trade deal.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Lmao @ Boris' statement.

 

[Maledict]

Boris Johnson invoking Godwins Law.

Arrrgh!

I don't think I ever thought I could be this ashamed or disgusted by my own country. It's not a fucking punishment you lying sack of crap, we are walking away from the club and choosing to do this to ourselves!

 

[Audioboxer]

Boris Johnson invoking Godwins Law.

Ah, more terrible statements about world war 2. Him and Trumps Nazi Germany media would do well.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I've got a feeling that the UK public won't like the detail of Trumps proposed trade deal.

It will also not be done quickly enough to prevent the economy being chokeslammed right before the 2020 general election.

The Tories will be presiding over a shonky deal with the EU and a badly weakened economy. Will they retain power in 2020?

If Labour don't get their act in gear, it will be up to the Lib Dems to kick May out.

 

[Joni]

I've got a feeling that the UK public won't like the detail of Trumps proposed trade deal.

No worries. The public won't get the details of those trade deals anymore.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Glad she put the foot down. 2 more years of speculation over the deal is going to be torture though.

 

[kmag]

No worries. The public won't get the details of those trade deals anymore.

They'll notice when the US Healthcare providers start the court cases.

 

[Clear]

So Bojo reckons countries are queuing up to sign a trade deal with the UK?, are they really?, I mean I get that he has more inside information than us, but I am still skeptical about this claim.

Trade deals are about mutual benefit, regardless of the politics the UK is by European standards a pretty big market (pop. 64m +), so its not an entity that can easily be cut from the equation without ramifications being felt elsewhere.

So, objectively speaking there will always be good reasons to maintain trade with the UK because regardless of the political situation, that population and its requirements for supply and demand will remain in play.