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Buffy the Vampire Slayer turns 20
- Thread starter AoM
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By the end, I was bored of him too. My female friends think that I've lost my mind.
Agreed TBH.
thanks for making me feel old. One of the my faves ever along with Angel.
I give the nod to Angel because Angel has my uber bae, Illyria:
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and im a sucker for gothchicksdemon
I'm always so conflicted about Illyria. Because on one hand (SPOILERS)
I loved Fred and her death was possibly the saddest moment on either series.
Yep. I get that it was about showing the viewer how damaged Buffy is, developing Spike as a character, showcasing a tumultuous relationship (to say the least); and I think it was well written. But I didn't enjoy it, and I agree that too much time and focus was dedicated to it. That said, I'm probably not the target audience; and I'm glad the storyline gave so much to those who appreciated it.
darkwing-buck
Member
Angel Season 5 is still the best thing Whedon has ever done imo.
Agree. Minus the first 1/4 of the season. Haha.
bitbydeath
Member
Sad, how it just got canned despite being a huge success at the time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_(1999_TV_series)
Season 3 is the best, followed by season 1. (Although I'm always surprised by how short season 1 is.)
Best episode? Ooof. Once More with Feeling is an easy answer, I guess. I also like Band Candy and The Zeppo.
Xander and Spike are probably my favorite characters. (Although the Buffy/Spike romance was terrible. Spike was best when he was Bad.)
I do have trouble watching Buffy anymore, though. Before I was married, lo, many years ago, my roommate would come home every night, make himself dinner, and put in a DVD of Buffy. When he finished the series, he would start back at the beginning. I was so sick of Buffy when I finally moved out.
I do like Angel. I am personally I big fan of season 1, (I loved Doyle) but I also really liked season 5. Something about them trying to fight evil from within Wolfram and Hart while trying not to get sucked into it really appeals to me.
Best episode? Ooof. Once More with Feeling is an easy answer, I guess. I also like Band Candy and The Zeppo.
Xander and Spike are probably my favorite characters. (Although the Buffy/Spike romance was terrible. Spike was best when he was Bad.)
I do have trouble watching Buffy anymore, though. Before I was married, lo, many years ago, my roommate would come home every night, make himself dinner, and put in a DVD of Buffy. When he finished the series, he would start back at the beginning. I was so sick of Buffy when I finally moved out.
I do like Angel. I am personally I big fan of season 1, (I loved Doyle) but I also really liked season 5. Something about them trying to fight evil from within Wolfram and Hart while trying not to get sucked into it really appeals to me.
This is really depressing.There were a number of reports that said The WB was trying to move away from genre television at that point as well, which did seem to be the case. And now The CW is all about it again.
Dumb move on The WB's part. Angel likely would have went on for years if it lasted until The CW.
yeah it was too bad angel got cancelled after S5. i don't like S5 as much as most people - i think S2 is by far the best season of the show - but they definitely were in a fertile period and there was a lot more left to do with the characters, especially illyria who had just arrived.
i think the main thing that holds S5 back is the reduced budget and heavy use of the same few sets in the wolfram and hart building. they just don't get out as much, and the expansive world building of S2 is scaled back. so the show feels smaller in a lot of episodes. the final 2 episodes dealing with the apocalypse are tiny in scope - it's a few rooms and an alleyway. they did the best with what they had but i always feel like the show is reduced watching S5.
there is also the fact that there is essentially 1 female cast member, cos harmony hardly counts. they were working on building that back up in the second half of the seasons with nina and harmony though.
S6 would probably have been pretty good!
ah well.
i think the main thing that holds S5 back is the reduced budget and heavy use of the same few sets in the wolfram and hart building. they just don't get out as much, and the expansive world building of S2 is scaled back. so the show feels smaller in a lot of episodes. the final 2 episodes dealing with the apocalypse are tiny in scope - it's a few rooms and an alleyway. they did the best with what they had but i always feel like the show is reduced watching S5.
there is also the fact that there is essentially 1 female cast member, cos harmony hardly counts. they were working on building that back up in the second half of the seasons with nina and harmony though.
S6 would probably have been pretty good!
ah well.
Zepp Twofist
Member
I would have thought it was older. Remember watching it in my parents basement when I was a kid.
Later I borrowed Angel on DVD from a friend. Might have been the first show I binged watched.
Later I borrowed Angel on DVD from a friend. Might have been the first show I binged watched.
TheVampire
Banned
It also sucks that in Season 5 due to timing and scheduling etc... They couldn't get the actors for Buffy or Giles or Dawn....so we got Andrew.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
That one, incredible episode.
Seconded, thirded, etc.
Escape Goat
Member
Poor Oz. The definition of an unnecessary character. Poor America. Set Green became a thing.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I watched a few episodes here and there years later after I became an adult. It's alright. I do like that Buffy inspired show on Netflix, Crazyhead.
dead souls
Member
It's not even the best Angel season. That would be season four.
What.
That's a pretty damn unpopular opinion to stand on as an argument.
But refreshing to hear, as I love season 4. It was my favorite season when it aired but 3 has moved up to sit alongside it.
Schwarzbier
Member
Yay, Buffy talk!
My favorite season was the third, though most of my favorite episodes were in the second.
My favorite episode was Passion. It pulled at all the right strings for me even though it covered some very rough stuff. After that probably The Wish or The Zeppo.
Still my favorite show of all time, crazy it has been 20 years.
My favorite season was the third, though most of my favorite episodes were in the second.
My favorite episode was Passion. It pulled at all the right strings for me even though it covered some very rough stuff. After that probably The Wish or The Zeppo.
Still my favorite show of all time, crazy it has been 20 years.
BKatastrophe
Member
I'm surprised at the love for Angel S4 in this thread. I re-watched the series recently, and I have to say that it's definitely a season that gets much better on multiple viewings. The philosophical ideals tackled in that season are fantastic. And the premise for Cordelia is great although it was taken in an immensely strange direction given Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy.
Also, I like Connor. It's hard to hate an incredibly sympathetic and tragic character.
Anyways:
Oh, and "You're Welcome" is an amazing piece of television. Most of the episodes in that season are good to great. Again, minus "Harm's Way". And "Life of the Party", actually.
You dissing on "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco"? Fuck out of here.
Also, I like Connor. It's hard to hate an incredibly sympathetic and tragic character.
Anyways:
Horrid advice.
It deserves the shit it gets, but not always for the reasons I agree with. For example: Kennedy doesn't piss me off. Rhonda, Andrew, and mopey-bitch-ass Spike do, however.
Glory is fucking great. What's not to dig?
S5 is a really well-crafted season, minus "Harm's Way". Also, being a straight dude, I'm perfectly comfortable watching the show pre-S5.
Oh, and "You're Welcome" is an amazing piece of television. Most of the episodes in that season are good to great. Again, minus "Harm's Way". And "Life of the Party", actually.
Rhonda was worse.
Closer to mid-/early-S3.
While it's not an ongoing podcast, The Art of Slaying is a really strong retrospective.
Not wrong. Post-S5 Spike sucked. Until Angel. Then he's the best.
You dissing on "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco"? Fuck out of here.
MulderYuffie
Member
Wow 20 years??? Jesus crazy how time flies loved this show so much.
Prototype Viktor
Member
My hearrttrrrtttt.
I also ship Wesley/the Weapon.
.
if people didn't like Spike maybe the Emma/Hook wouldn't have been a thing in Once
BKatastrophe
Member
Which makes me very conflicted, because Emma/Hook sucks and I do enjoy Spike for most of the series.
darkwing-buck
Member
I didn't care for spike in the later seasons but hoo boy he was glorious in Angel season 5.
Angel Season 4 - was really like two seasons in one, it was great.
Boreanaz stretching his acting chops when he turned in Angelus, one of my favourite eps.
And shout out to STEPHANIE ROMANOV - what a stunner and excellent antagonist.
One of the things Angel does better than Buffy was having a sense of place, LA was a character in the show as well, and the cast of Angel were better rounded and more mature. Plus their script was slightly better, sometimes hearing Xander and Willow talk can be infuriating...
Boreanaz stretching his acting chops when he turned in Angelus, one of my favourite eps.
And shout out to STEPHANIE ROMANOV - what a stunner and excellent antagonist.
One of the things Angel does better than Buffy was having a sense of place, LA was a character in the show as well, and the cast of Angel were better rounded and more mature. Plus their script was slightly better, sometimes hearing Xander and Willow talk can be infuriating...
One of the best. I don't suppose it got an HD / Bluray treatment right?
For fresh viewers, you'd have to bite your lips a little and finish S1 as it didn't age too well..but after that the show hits its stride.
Sad that SMG didn't really have a notable TV role ever since, and that Whedon's last TV project was a disappointment.
For fresh viewers, you'd have to bite your lips a little and finish S1 as it didn't age too well..but after that the show hits its stride.
Sad that SMG didn't really have a notable TV role ever since, and that Whedon's last TV project was a disappointment.
Prototype Viktor
Member
i would ask how could you but if you like Spike than Hook is almost the same except they of course wouldn't let it go to it's eventual arc of him attempting to rape Emma like Spike did. B/c he did all the other stuff, stalking, sexual harassment, treating her like a object to win, etc
She is pretty memorable as Kathryn Merteuil in "Cruel Intentions". That's 2 memorable characters in pop culture history. Pretty good feat imo.
BKatastrophe
Member
Not really. Hook immediately plays the "repentant noble" as soon as he gets the hots for Emma. Also he and Emma have atrocious chemistry. Atrocious.
It's not nearly as fucked up and complicated as Spike and Buffy. In fact most of the bullshit in their relationship is on Emma.
On that subject, browsing her IMDB page to see if she has any upcoming projects, i see she starred in a Cruel Intentions TV Movie last year..
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All this talk about the age of 'Peak TV' but there's still nothing like BTVS. Most of the shows featuring or directed at young adults suck. It's either a CW crappy eye-candy show or another bad comic superhero show.
There's BTVS and there's Veronica Mars. Nothing of note between or since.
Illyria cemented Amy Acker as the best actor in the show for me. The way she went from Fred to Illyria to Fred again in some scenes was woah.
After the comics I'm not sure I want Whedon to touch anything Buffy-related again.
Thanks to this thread I started yet another a rewatch with Welcome to the Hellmouth/The Harvest. And boy his acting in the early episodes is ROUGH. At this point it's almost unbelievable he has been a lead actor in television for nearly 20 years straight.
DarthMasta
Member
After the comics I'm not sure I want Whedon to touch anything Buffy-related again.
Yeah, the comics make it clear he didn't necessarily understand why Buffy worked.
She is pretty memorable as Kathryn Merteuil in "Cruel Intentions". That's 2 memorable characters in pop culture history. Pretty good feat imo.
She's also great in the a Scooby Doo movies. I assumed these were irrelevant kids movies for decades, then watched them on Netflix, and they're both awesome.
You're right about Buffy and Kathryn having the most cultural weight though. Both incredible roles.
I feel like she often picks interesting roles that ought to be very special, and then gets let down by things beyond her control. The Grudge was a great choice that became an excellent movie, but Veronica Decides to Die and Ringer would have sounded very promising when they were pitched to her, and I'm sure The Crazy Ones was sold as "30 Rock with Robin Williams". I wish she'd scored her own Bones or How I Met Your Mother, but she still has plenty of time.
bitbydeath
Member
It only lasted one season but I thought "Ringer" was really good.
She is pretty memorable as Kathryn Merteuil in "Cruel Intentions". That's 2 memorable characters in pop culture history. Pretty good feat imo.
At some point they'll bring Buffy back with SMG in the role.
When? No idea. But it'll happen. Just needs enough distance between it ending and it coming back. And if they bring it back on the CW, I can see Joss getting a lot more creative control than anything else he's ever done.
The comics aren't that bad, the problem is that Buffy really was a show where the writing inspired the actors and the actors inspired the writing. Like ASH IS Giles. You can't have someone else play that role. Same with AH as Willow, and even NB as Xavier (fuck up that the guy is in real life and state of his career, he brought so much to that character.) The best examples are JM/AD as Spike/Wesley. Both characters were intended for short arcs and the actors were so good that the writers gave them more to do and eventually they were permanent fixtures.
Also, Anya. That character only works with that actress.
shawnbuddy
Member
My favorite show of all time.
My favorite season is three for being the culmination of the "high school is hell" theme.
My favorite episode is Once More With Feeling for the music and the emotional beats.
My favorite character is Willow for adorableness with an edge. Or some days Cordelia for speaking the truth and passing on tact.
My favorite season is three for being the culmination of the "high school is hell" theme.
My favorite episode is Once More With Feeling for the music and the emotional beats.
My favorite character is Willow for adorableness with an edge. Or some days Cordelia for speaking the truth and passing on tact.
SpideySenses
Member
Buffy was a show of two halves for me, loved the school/collage years but found the later years lacking, even season five which is considered by many as the best. With Angel, the highs weren't as high and it's low were probably lower but I still ended up enjoying it more overall.
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