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Buffy the Vampire Slayer turns 20
- Thread starter AoM
- Start date
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Nope
I mean they could have still done the 'opened a door she shouldn't have' thing and nerfed her with her own conscience but nope. DRUGS DRUGS
hodayathink
Member
That's not fair. There were 2 (Bianca Lawson in season 2, DB Woodside in season 7). Three if you count the demon in season 3. 4 if you count Riley's best friend in the Initiative. I'm just messing with you, I get your point, Sunnydale was pretty white looking back at it.
I got turned on to Buffy in college, I want to say during Season 5, and was hooked nearly immediately. Only have the first and last seasons on DVD (and the first season of Angel), keep meaning to buy the box set but never following through on it.
I want to but I keep telling myself to wait for an eventual Buffy/Angel Blu-ray collection. Doesn't seem to be happening though, as it would require a second remaster of Buffy that isn't one of the worst remasters of anything in the history of media.
Hell, I'd be okay with just a proper remaster and putting that on Netflix.
Angel looks fantastic though. Always has.
Joss hinted pretty heavily that he wasn't in the the mood to be creative because of the election results. He seems very focused on pushing back against Trump, which I understand. It's important.
That being said, how would everyone feel if Joss came back to TV with a new show in the Buffy universe? Sure, my dream is a revival of either Buffy or Angel. Though it's unlikely as actors would be busy, some might feel like they're too old to play vampires, etc.
But I would actually love for Joss to go to The CW and do a new show in the Buffy universe. Mainly new characters but with a couple old ones who were up for it. In this day and age, it would not be in any danger of being canceled. Ratings would absolutely hold up for The CW and it could go on for years.
It would make me so damn happy.
That being said, how would everyone feel if Joss came back to TV with a new show in the Buffy universe? Sure, my dream is a revival of either Buffy or Angel. Though it's unlikely as actors would be busy, some might feel like they're too old to play vampires, etc.
But I would actually love for Joss to go to The CW and do a new show in the Buffy universe. Mainly new characters but with a couple old ones who were up for it. In this day and age, it would not be in any danger of being canceled. Ratings would absolutely hold up for The CW and it could go on for years.
It would make me so damn happy.
Yup
Well, Imma side with him just because Eliza Dushku doesn't currently play the worst female lead in TV.
I mean, it's actually Buffy herself though.
What in the world. "You're Welcome," one of the best episodes of the series, was two episodes before "Smile Time."
Bite your tongue.
BoxManLocke
Member
As much as that pains me to say, Angel got a perfect ending, which was a feat considering how abruptly it got put down. So I hope it stays where it is. I didn't even touch the comics.
Even though Buffy's ending was more open to me I feel like it had run its course.
Anyway hell yeah, I'd like a new Whedon show, Buffyverse or not. There was just something unique about his writing that I never found anywhere else since then (dat character evolution. 10/10)
Escape Goat
Member
Does it hurt to be so wrong?
BoxManLocke
Member
Buffy season 4 is my favourite guilty pleasure season of all time.
Spike is fucking cracking me up all the time.
Also, Hush and Restless are masterpieces.
Spike is fucking cracking me up all the time.
Also, Hush and Restless are masterpieces.
Restless had three best Spike foreshadowing of all time.
Edit: God that gif is shit wish I could find a better one. Maybe no one picked up on that but me ha.
I fondly remember watching an episode and my brother from the next room screaming "Shut up Kennedy!" Good times. Loathed her.
Definitely, its why I always put his shows above something like Supernatural which is a small circle with two leads (3 if yo count Cas). There isn't that ensemble cast of characters that play off each other whilst developing as time passes. Its just Sam and Dean going over the same beats again and again...
A bigger budget Whedon show with a full run of 20+ eps would be great though...
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Happy birthday, Buffy! I'm getting back into the show again recently. I really missed it. I needed my fix of slayage
so badly!
and hot AF Angel
BoxManLocke
Member
Yeah, Supernatural is the closest thing that got to Buffy/Angel to me. In fact I started watching specifically because it started a few months after Angel's ending and I was looking for a new character-focused fantasy show.
And you're absolutely right that it can't reach the same heights partially because of the 2-lead limitation. It got very close in seasons 2-3-4 though.
the_sun_king
Member
I said it earlier, but I still haven't seen any live action American TV series - let alone a character focused urban fantasy one - to hook me in ever since Buffy went off the air in 2003. It's kinda sad.
Oh, and I love Buffy's ending. It's completely in tune with the original mission statement the show had by being an inversion of expectations:
Oh, and I love Buffy's ending. It's completely in tune with the original mission statement the show had by being an inversion of expectations:
In a story about a "chosen one"/hero's journey, Buffy and the Scoobies make every girl in the world the chosen one/hero at the end. It's a really brilliant end to the show and it's why I can forgive a lot of season 7's flaws.
SapphiCine
Member
Is this ever going to get a proper remaster?
20 year anniversary and no news, so nope. Hop aboard the DVD train along with me and everyone else who waited.
StrategyFan
Member
i liked the writing
but the story/setting of the earlier seasons were better. it was distinctly 1990s and distinctly high school
then the plot became about generic young adult stuff and bad scifi which had nothing to do with the era or a socal suburb
but the story/setting of the earlier seasons were better. it was distinctly 1990s and distinctly high school
then the plot became about generic young adult stuff and bad scifi which had nothing to do with the era or a socal suburb
Prototype Viktor
Member
magic was gay sex first, then drugs, then magic was loose morals, then Spice World
BoxManLocke
Member
It became about young adults because... the characters grew up ?
I mean, it makes more sense to me than pulling a Teen Wolf and spending six seasons in high school.
Apple Turnover
Banned
While magic being constantly used for heavy handed allegory was frustrating, at least it never got quite as bad as "Beer Bad" was
1. Favorite season?
S5, with S6 close behind it. 5 is peak Buffy, and 6 is absurdly underrated. It has the highest highs, and it's lows aren't that bad.
2. Favorite episode?
The Zeppo. Not fade away is my favorite Buffyverse episode.
3. Favorite character?
Buffy. Angel in Angel (he's awful in Buffy.)
5 > 6 > 3 > 4 > 2 > 7 > 1
S5, with S6 close behind it. 5 is peak Buffy, and 6 is absurdly underrated. It has the highest highs, and it's lows aren't that bad.
2. Favorite episode?
The Zeppo. Not fade away is my favorite Buffyverse episode.
3. Favorite character?
Buffy. Angel in Angel (he's awful in Buffy.)
5 > 6 > 3 > 4 > 2 > 7 > 1
Someone mentioned Anya and to had to share this best of Anya complication
https://youtu.be/rFhJW8EDynA
Of course it's missing this best moment
MAJOR SPOILERS
https://youtu.be/MZ96c7IOIPQ
https://youtu.be/rFhJW8EDynA
Of course it's missing this best moment
MAJOR SPOILERS
https://youtu.be/MZ96c7IOIPQ
BKatastrophe
Member
One plot point that I always thought was weird was that apparently, Glory was supposed to be merged with Xander. I like and dislike the idea, because I like the idea of Glory being someone very close to the group, but I think it should have been Tara. The scene in "Family", where Spike punches Tara to reveal that she's human, would have been cool to have been a twist where Spike faked it and is then aware of Tara. Keeping a secret. Would have helped his weird little wildcard role, and it would have given Tara something to do that wasn't just a fuckbuddy for Willow.
But what we got was pretty damn great, so I'm not complaining.
And then you can stack on Saint Cordelia.
You've basically got the whole situation down. In fact, the rewrites weren't super extensive. The general concept remained: Cordelia returns to Earth, bodyjacked by Jasmine, and slowly infiltrates and destroys AI from within. Manipulating Connor and the rest of the group into fully cementing her power. Then her and Connor would be sacrificed in order to stop "Jasmine."
All in all, it largely stayed the same: Cordelia was bodyjacked and did work with Connor in bringing Jasmine into the world, and they both were sacrificed at the end (Cordelia was put into a magic coma that she never awoke from and Connor's reality had been rewritten). The creepy Connor daddy shit was the best idea they came up with to work with the pregnancy. There was no abuse towards her on set, though there was some frustration. And why wouldn't there be? Constant rewrites and delays coupled with pressure from a studio?
But what we got was pretty damn great, so I'm not complaining.
While the pissing of Joss thing really wasn't what happened. S3 Cordelia sucked. 2>5>4>1>3 is how those seasons go for me. Maybe switch S5&2. S3 is pretty terrible by comparison to the rest. No cohesion with shallow villains that are bordering on incompetence (except Wolfram and Hart, which was completely incompetent aside from Lilah) and complete focus largely on love triangles. Angel > Fred > Wesley, which became Gunn > Fred > Wesley. Then there was Cordy > Angel > Darla which then became Groo > Cordy > Angel. Plus S3 has two of my least favorite episodes in the entire series. Holtz could have been great, but was sandwiched by Sahjan (who is a walking contradiction in and of himself) and Wolfram and Hart (who as I said, were largely incompetent outside of Lilah).
And then you can stack on Saint Cordelia.
The fucking Cheese Man. "Restless" is always a weird one for me.EDIT: Yeah, screw it. Not gonna continue this argument. Back to Buffy.
She didn't. It's been said in multiple interviews with both of them that there was no beef, and that they both had a lot going on at the time. She does mention that she thinks he was mad at her, but she wasn't so sure, and he mentions that he may have acted a bit dickish (I guess is the only word I can think of at the moment), but both of them put that behind them on good terms.
You've basically got the whole situation down. In fact, the rewrites weren't super extensive. The general concept remained: Cordelia returns to Earth, bodyjacked by Jasmine, and slowly infiltrates and destroys AI from within. Manipulating Connor and the rest of the group into fully cementing her power. Then her and Connor would be sacrificed in order to stop "Jasmine."
All in all, it largely stayed the same: Cordelia was bodyjacked and did work with Connor in bringing Jasmine into the world, and they both were sacrificed at the end (Cordelia was put into a magic coma that she never awoke from and Connor's reality had been rewritten). The creepy Connor daddy shit was the best idea they came up with to work with the pregnancy. There was no abuse towards her on set, though there was some frustration. And why wouldn't there be? Constant rewrites and delays coupled with pressure from a studio?
If you go back and watch the series, Willow does slowly get more and more addicted to magic. Tara intentionally sabotages spells in S4 and S5, and straight up states that she's scared of Willow's potential. The same Willow that effectively gave Dawn a spellbook that could resurrect Joyce. Something even Spike warned against.
I am upset that they never did more with her. She was basically just there to be important to help Gunn's character arc by the end of S4.Real Best Girl
I agree to an extent. I've said it previously, but I like S6. It's a strong, solid season. Doesn't have the highest highs, but it doesn't have the lowest lows. It never strays from the baseline it creates, which is both good and bad. And I like the different theme, where there is no true big bad. If I recall, Jane Espenson said that to her, life was the big bad. "The hardest thing to do in this world is to live in it" basically became the central theme for S6, and I really enjoyed that. A lot of strong focus on characters and character development. The Trio is a nuisance more than anything, with Warren slowly becoming more and more horrible. Dark Willow is only for the last few episodes and is the culmination of Willow's arc plus immense tragedy. You also have Amy, but she didn't do too much outside of her interactions with Willow. After that she's irrelevant until a one-off episode in S7. Another character I wish they had done more with.
Didn't hate her. Rhona was worse. Kennedy was fine, but I can agree that the Potentials could have been done a lot better. Plus, without a reveal as to how the Slayer line got so fucked up (it's heavily inferred to be Willow's spell that resurrected Buffy, but never stated) it really feels like it's....lost, or something. Also, it would have been cool to bring Kendra back.
I don't know you, but I kinda love you. Thanks for the in depth analysis. This, people,is why they Buffy courses in college like they do Shakespeare. They do that with like..Lost
BKatastrophe
Member
I don't know you, but I kinda love you. Thanks for the in depth analysis. This, people,is why they Buffy courses in college like they do Shakespeare. They do that with like..Lost
I could talk about BtVS and Angel for extensive periods of time, I assure you.
Like the one black character with any weight got killed off very quickly. At least Angel had Gunn
Guy's I am all nostalgic and looking up best Buffy memoments and totally forgot about her 'Fuck off, council' speech.
https://youtu.be/W54l3nHmw-Q
Soooooo goooood
Reminds me why the show was so empowering to my generation of women
Because he is. Xander, much like famed cartoon charcter Doug, is a fuck boy.
TheVampire
Banned
Xander should have armed up more.
Like wear metal knuckle dusters with crosses on them and a water pistol filled with holy water etc...
Like wear metal knuckle dusters with crosses on them and a water pistol filled with holy water etc...
Yeah, Rhona sucked but she wasn't being pushed as a prominent character.
Kennedy on the other hand was such a massive downgrade from Tara it was mind-boggling that they thought they pull that one over the audience.
BKatastrophe
Member
"Checkpoint" is a dope-ass episode. One of my faves.
Guy's I am all nostalgic and looking up best Buffy memoments and totally forgot about her 'Fuck off, council' speech.
https://youtu.be/W54l3nHmw-Q
Soooooo goooood
Reminds me why the show was so empowering to my generation of women
He really doesn't, though. He gets fucked over constantly, and anytime he tries to play it a different way, he gets fucked over more. It's only when he comes to peace with never being the big, tough white knight that he thinks and tries to be that things actually go more his way. Of course, even then he's still an idiot.
Xander having to be the more clever fighter is a good idea, but Xander isn't all that clever. He's perceptive of people, but not a clever fighter.
I get what they were going for with Kennedy, as someone who was more aggressive in the relationship, since Willow's previous big relationships had decidedly more passive people. I get that, and I do like the idea, but I can agree that Kennedy was annoying. The reason why I don't dislike her that much is because everyone in S7 whines all the time. Except for Dawn. Michelle Trachtenberg just happens to have that tone in her voice.
It's exactly what happened.
Charisma and Joss had a strained relationship and she unexpectedly got pregnant early in the season. She threw shade for YEARS because they fired her for being pregnant, and we know they didn't love each other on Buffy.
Have to say, I liked Kennedy a lot. Looking back, I also appreciate that Willow's visible homosexuality didn't die with Tara. I think Dawn is the only character I could really do without on the show. Not that I hated every minute of her; I just felt she consistently detracted from my enjoyment rather than adding to it.
BKatastrophe - just wanted to say I'm also loving your considered and erudite posts. Such a pleasure to read so many thoughts about this show from everyone in this thread.
BKatastrophe - just wanted to say I'm also loving your considered and erudite posts. Such a pleasure to read so many thoughts about this show from everyone in this thread.
I think I'm going to make my 13 year old son start watching it with me. That's about the age I started watching. But he's already rolled his eyes at the name Buffy so I don't know how successful I'm going to be but I'm going to make him. I'm his mother and he will listen to me dammit.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Fuck me I need to rewatch Buffy and Angel. It's been a few years and that's just too long.
Just seeing images from the 90's makes me feel old.
Buffy and Angel are probably the television shows I've re-watched the most. (Along with Quantum Leap, for some reason). I re-watched both a few months ago, while I was on maternity leave and up all night, every night. I continue to love them. It's weird that it's been 20 years since I started watching Buffy.
the_sun_king
Member
I'm still miffed over the fact it took so long for Buffy to find out about the lie he told her at the end of season 2.
I hated TV from the olden days at that age too. I'm sure he'll realise that culture peaked in the late 90s in a couple of years. And as awesome as Buffy is; as relevant as it remains, he's still living in a totally different world. I'd guess the lack of cellphones alone would make it hard for today's teens to relate to. What's the closest Buffy substitute today? Never seen the show, but is it Glee?
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