So the deal seems to be that Steam can't see Steamworks enabled games on the store after release, such as Brink etc. What I don't understand is why Valve is accepting this? It limits choice for consumers, and being told that they can't sell games which use Steam's own DRM and install system should be something they're not happy about I would have thought.
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'Bullying' UK retailers reject Steam-enabled PC games
- Thread starter crimsonheadGCN
- Start date
PaulLFC said:
Why do you think it's Valve's choice? The publishers decide where games are sold. I guess Valve was faced with the choice: Sell them for preorders and make some money, or possibly lose the entire game which could effect world wide steamworks implementation.
jump_button said:
Do UK retailers buy used PC games and sell them?
jump_button
Banned
Shops just want 2nd hand games to resell, I really don't get this mind set at all, I buy a game it to keep or ill sell it myself why would you take it to a shop to get ripped off?
DTKT said:
PC retail, though? Websites still are, but as for shops, I walked into Game the other day and their PC selection was embarassing - just one shelf, and only half of that one shelf dedicated to new games. By comparison 360 or PS3 games take up 5 or 6 shelves.
coopolon said:
They do, but if I had a successful DD service and a publisher said to me "We want to use your toolset in our game, and we want you to make that game available for download indefinitely for customers who buy our game from our retail partners. We also want you to make the game available for download, using your company's bandwidth, if customers decide to install it using the CD key and not from disc. However, we won't allow you to sell our game, we expect you to provide this service to us effectively free, minus the Steamworks licensing costs (which probably won't be much compared to the profits if a game was sold through Steam)". I understand your point and why Valve have to accept it, but I wouldn't be pleased about it if it was me. I'd be looking at ways to negotiate so that Steam can sell the games - there seems no reason that can't happen besides the Game Group being greedy.
PaulLFC said:
I'm sure they're not pleased with it. But keep in mind even if they're not selling it, every customer who buys the game in store has to install Steam, and then get exposed to Steam sales, Steam achievements, etc. And they still sell the game in every other market. So if the option is don't sell it in UK or don't have steamworks, they'd much prefer the former.
And Steamworks is free isn't?
I've actually always wondered if you'd be allowed to use Steamworks but not sell the game on Steam. It'd be silly since you get a lot of exposure being on Steam, but I wonder if Valve would be okay with it.
All steamworks does for me is take new releases that I would would normally buy full price at retail and turn them into ones that I wait to go on sale for $5 on steam. Assuming of course that some other stupid DRM wouldn't replace steamworks.
Which is probably why I think the last game I bought full price was DA:O
TouchMyBox
Member
dani_dc said:
Pretty much, if all games were steamworks and were carried in retail stores, I would visit retail stores way more often than I currently do (about 2 times a year).
Oh but wha wha wha I have to launch steam omfg it takes 5 seconds to loooadd sooo long I could have spent that 5 seconds playing the gameeeee. as if any other drm solution publishers are using are any bettttter wha wha. /baby
TouchMyBox
Member
ghst said:
Hey man, stop exaggerating. Last time I was in a game store they had an entire 3x3 foot magazine rack dedicated to the latest PC games such as Street Fighter IV and The Club.
José Mourinho
cocknose
There's that, then there's also that point when you're buying a game...PaulLFC said:
We have guides to the game there for £9.99.
-No, I'm okay thanks.
Do you need any Xbox Live subscriptions?
-No no, I'm good.
How about Xbox Live Points?
-No thanks mate, I'm sweet.
Okay, would you like to take out GAME Care? It's like insurance.
-No thanks. Nothing else today.
Do you know you can trade your old games in?
-I do yes.
Cool, well any old games or consoles you don't want just throw them in to us. Okay, thanks sir, enjoy your day.
Hate the sods.
Oh ffs I was just planning my rig to jump into PC gaming for the first time BECAUSE of Steam, It's the perfect ecosystem from what i can gather and now i have to hop skip and jump between DD stores now which will probably have multiple clients and their own online portals. It's a pain in the arse.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
i am pro-consumer is almost everything but because of the danger that digital storefronts represent i am not "pro-consumer" in the usual sense. In the case of DD i view the consumers ability to find employment much more important than the ability to save a couple dollars on luxury items. Eventually there will be a tipping point where the numbers of people laid off due to obsolescence will bite into the sales of Amazon and the like but by the time that happens things will be beyond repair.LovingSteam said:
iNvid02
Member
Kylehimself said:
well they are just doing their job and i understand that. and its not hard to let them know, you just say "I only want the game, nothing else" and im pretty sure an employee gets the message.
seems like people who shop for games have no social skills - you dont keep saying "no thanks", "sorry no" because you've got nothing to be thankful for or sorry about, a stern "no" and your done
Its silly because I'm likely to only buy from retail if it *does* have steamworks on the cover. I don't mind using retail as an alternative to downloading, as long as I can lunch it easily from steam and don't need the disc as a key
What difference does it make to retail anyway? Are margins different, or is it just that they don't want people seeing steam and being tempted away?
What difference does it make to retail anyway? Are margins different, or is it just that they don't want people seeing steam and being tempted away?
Yeah, that's the same reason that I used when I argued against replacing horses with tractors. Didn't work. I should've known, it's the same argument that was had when humans were replaced by horses.water_wendi said:
Don't even get me started on pesticides and growth agents. It's a wonder any of us are employed at all.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
God, this. Every single fucking time. JUST SELL ME YOUR PRODUCT.Kylehimself said:
They're hilariously sexist, too. I've never once been asked if I need help when browsing by myself, but it's happened nearly every time I'm with my girlfriend.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Like ive pointed out many times before, going from horses to tractors there was parity. You still needed people to ride the tractors like you needed people to guide the horses. Instead of horse trainers and stables you get mechanics and auto shops.SmokyDave said:
When Netflix supplants Blockbuster you go from 60,000 employees to 1,000 to service the same market. Even though Netflix employs IT personnel, so did Blockbuster. Netflix has only a handful of warehouses whereas Blockbuster had hundreds or thousands of locations all of which paid local/state taxes, hired ancillary employees like pest control/security guards/landscapers, and paid local workers that likely used their pay locally thus putting money back into the hands of their neighbors. If you buy Netflix most of the money goes to Los Gatos, California so unless you have a business in Los Gatos the chance that the recipients of your money returning the favor and hiring/shopping at your place of employment in the UK is slim.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
I hardly know anyone that buys PC games at brick and mortar establishments vs Steam as it is, so this seems more like stores closing the barn doors long after the horses have bolted. Moreover, stores do this to themselves by generally doing a poor job of stocking PC games to begin with. EB has had a piss poor selection of PC games in stock for the better part of a decade (I wonder if this is because it's very hard to re-sell used PC games 
), so retailers have dug their own whole here.
For most media, be it games, movies, music, and books, brick and mortar outlets are fast becoming a dinosaur. Companies doing stuff like this is just one more sign of their imminent deaths.
), so retailers have dug their own whole here.For most media, be it games, movies, music, and books, brick and mortar outlets are fast becoming a dinosaur. Companies doing stuff like this is just one more sign of their imminent deaths.
I don't think Activision will pull out of Steam too soon, not till they can get Battle.Net reskined and suited for their needs. They were one of the first ones onto the Steamworks bandwagon, and seem to like Valves Anti Cheat system.
Plus, other then Call of Duty, what else do they really have on PC these days?
I would say they are, but most likely Bethesda is the one who made some wacky deals with UK Retail. The site about Steamworks does say you are allowed to make a game Steamworks and are not required to actually sell it on the Steam Storefront, since I think Valve is still at the point where they are just trying to get as many people to use the Steam Client as possible. They realize Bandwidth is dirt cheap compared to advertising costs.
Plus, other then Call of Duty, what else do they really have on PC these days?
DTKT said:
I would say they are, but most likely Bethesda is the one who made some wacky deals with UK Retail. The site about Steamworks does say you are allowed to make a game Steamworks and are not required to actually sell it on the Steam Storefront, since I think Valve is still at the point where they are just trying to get as many people to use the Steam Client as possible. They realize Bandwidth is dirt cheap compared to advertising costs.
This argument is moot. There will always be physical retail sector for goods that are actually physical, but games, movies, books and music are intellectual goods that should be distributed digitally, ie. the most efficient and cheapest way. You're arguing now against the capitalism itself and the progress of civilization which is really silly.water_wendi said:
You might as well argue for the sake of higher taxes, so that a state has more money and creates more useless jobs for unemployed people.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
For thousands of years mankind could not communicate with others over vast distances but in the last hundred and fifty years or so that has changed. When US President Herbert Hoover kept telling the American people that the nations economy was about to turn the corner he was going off the assumption that the Great Depression was like all the other depressions that had happened until that point and thus would be over shortly. Until stagflation actually happened it was thought to be an impossibility in the then current economic theory.szaromir said:
Just because things have or havent happened before doesnt necessarily mean that those trends will continue.
Joseph Merrick
Member
yeah, maddox games has been a 1C studio for over 10 yearsDrkirby said:
Consumers and corporations always go for the cheapest options, I don't think you can argue that. Distributing intellectual goods on physical carriers is awfully inefficient and on its way out. It will take a while but we'll get there. People will have to find jobs elsewhere, perhaps in creative industries thanks to much lower barriers of entry, a unique opportunity created by digital distribution.water_wendi said:
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
The problem i see is when unemployment/underemployment hits a certain saturation point there are not enough dollars being spent on luxury services so eventually places like Amazon will get burned and in a big way. Its similar to the downward spiral that the economy slows so people are laid off and since theres less people making money theres less people spending money so more people are laid off.szaromir said:
Retail for PC is a waste of time anyway. I was going to buy dungeon siege at gamestop to get rid of the credit and I remembered that for once I actually HAD to preorder a game, otherwise on release (today) it wouldn't have been there. They only get a couple EA games, COD, or WoW shit usually. Very rarely you'll spot a THQ game like red faction.
Finish them off Steam.
Finish them off Steam.
LQX
Member
I like Steam alot but the devotion some of you have to the service has blinded you to the fact they more than any game company in the PC space as elimited our choices and it will only get worse as more companies only allow there product to be only registered on Steam. They put a gorgeous face on it all which make you say yes to everything but they are still running a game on us.
CharmingCharlie
Member
To the people arguing "for" the retailers, you do realise it's the retailers fault they are in this position in the first place don't you ? For years all retailers did was neglect the PC platform because in their books console gaming was more lucrative for them. It made far more sense for retailers to neglect PC gaming because they could make an absolute killing on used console game sales.
If it hadn't been for Steam there probably wouldn't be much of PC gaming left by now. However now that Valve and Steam are very successful all of a sudden retailers are screaming "unfair". I am sorry but retailers made their bed and they should lie in it. As a PC gamer I have no sympathy for them you didn't want my business, Steam did.
If it hadn't been for Steam there probably wouldn't be much of PC gaming left by now. However now that Valve and Steam are very successful all of a sudden retailers are screaming "unfair". I am sorry but retailers made their bed and they should lie in it. As a PC gamer I have no sympathy for them you didn't want my business, Steam did.
Mr Nash
square pies = communism
water_wendi said:
You do bring up an important point regarding the economy at large. There are going to be a lot of people in a number of sectors that are un / under employed due to the changes in technology be it through something as simple as the advent of digital distribution (among other things), as well as shipping certain types of jobs overseas, governments trimming their payrolls to balance their books, et cetera. The problem is that it doesn't appear many have come up with a solution for this yet because the situation doesn't seem dire enough yet.
There was an interesting talk given by a former higher up of the European Central Bank a couple of years ago that touched upon these problems, and suggested that people will have to decide at some point whether to keep the current efficiency-based economic model (maximize profits at all cost), or shift to a more resilience-based economy where profits aren't so high, but it allows a higher portion of the populace to remain employed, with enough money coming in to weather economic slowdowns.
We'll see, I suppose, but I expect things to get much worse before they get better. Most countries haven't been taking their debt problems seriously, I'm not convinced that baby boomers as a cohort are prepared for retirement (nor are governments prepared to support them), youth unemployment is going to be a growing concern, and I'm sure there's a bunch of other unpleasantness no one's even thought of yet that could come down the pipe as well.
IrishNinja
Member
predictably, this thread is now about water_wendi and tractors.
these threads are only worth it for the obligatory ghst gem.
these threads are only worth it for the obligatory ghst gem.
I'm surprised this hasnt happened sooner and wouldnt be surprised to see this happen in the US (now that GameStop owns their own digital distribution service). I cant blame retailers either since I wouldnt sell a product that installs a competitors service on my customers system.
Steam is the only instance of digital distribution that I can tolerate for full-fledged games. Prices are often cheaper than retail, unlike Microsoft and Sony's offerings, and the second hand market is practically non-existent when it comes to PC games, so I'm not going to make any money back there.
As for those complaining about technological advancements supplanting fields of work, get used to it. That whole tractor/horse analogy missed the whole point. Yes you've still got one person running a tractor, as they would a horse, but that tractor is far more efficient and ultimately displacing several other people and their horses. People find new lines of work, often more leisurely ones at that.
As for those complaining about technological advancements supplanting fields of work, get used to it. That whole tractor/horse analogy missed the whole point. Yes you've still got one person running a tractor, as they would a horse, but that tractor is far more efficient and ultimately displacing several other people and their horses. People find new lines of work, often more leisurely ones at that.