"But black people are allowed to say the n-word..."

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Ray Wonder said:
No I don't, because I don't think it should be. I'd rather it went tf away.
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This doesn't answer the question I posed at the end of my post: If you don't think it should be around, why are you reticent to do your part in not using it? Why are you making your decision to stop using it conditional?

That you don't realize your argument can be expanded upon very easily to suggest that your pass should become everybody's pass is part of the problem I'm trying to get you to look at. You can't simultaneously argue against the word ever being used while admitting that you still freely use it, even in situations where you're cognizant of the context allowing it.

So yes, you need to explain why you're essentially suggesting that the word needs to go away, but you won't stop using it until Black people stop using it first.

(the fallacy at the heart of that particular argument is already being addressed by the other posters - I'm just trying to poke at the inherent hypocrisy at the core of your justifications for continuing to use it.)

I understand that it probably does make you feel special in some way to know you're more or less getting away with a cultural taboo, that you've got permission to play around in an area a lot of people don't get to. That you've gotten your hands on yet another privilege that you didn't really have to work all that hard for. That even, on some level, you might be looking at this shit as a well-earned reward for being a good ally to your Black friends. Who/why would someone begrudge you that indulgence, right?

But if you actually give a shit about the word's usage dying out like you say you do, why aren't you begrudging yourself that usage?

That's what it all gets back to: What is it about your ability to use that word repercussion free that has you willing to make the argument that everyone else has to stop using it too? What are you getting out of using it that you're not really willing to give up in return for your stated goal of diminishing its presence in the culture overall?
 
Always found it interesting that people (specifically white people) single out black people for turning slurs into terms of endearment. No one is outraged that many Polish Americans people use "Pollack" as a term of endearment, or some gay people have made various gay slurs terms of endearment. This is not some black exclusive phenomena, it's been observed from many minority groups who faced/face discrimination and/or oppression.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
This doesn't answer the question I posed at the end of my post: If you don't think it should be around, why are you reticent to do your part in not using it? Why are you making your decision to stop using it conditional?

That you don't realize your argument can be expanded upon very easily to suggest that your pass should become everybody's pass is part of the problem I'm trying to get you to look at. You can't simultaneously argue against the word ever being used while admitting that you still freely use it, even in situations where you're cognizant of the context allowing it.

So yes, you need to explain why you're essentially suggesting that the word needs to go away, but you won't stop using it until Black people stop using it first.

(the fallacy at the heart of that particular argument is already being addressed by the other posters - I'm just trying to poke at the inherent hypocrisy at the core of your justifications for continuing to use it.)
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Ok, I have a 45 minute drive in a second here. I'll get back to this later.
 
Ray Wonder said:
You have me mistaken. I don't think it should be. I know the words offends people, so I won't use it in company of people it will offend..

I never said that. I said I use it privately because I'm constantly surrounded by it.
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Wait wait wait. YOU say it??

comment_sQ05sRzjgN2urqYuO9nrgGtyuetSYUZC.gif


Fuck outta here. Lead by fucking example, boss! Done as fuck..
 
The Artisan said:
So like I said then, there really is no difference between the "rules" of a white person saying the word and a non-black colored person saying the word, is there? Anyone who isn't black risks offending someone and therefore should not say it.

The "exceptions" you spoke of sounded like the same "exceptions" that come within a group of friends. In that, if a group of friends who are African Americans are cool with their caucasian friend saying it, it is the same exception they make for a colored friend saying it. It doesn't matter that this friend is colored, because s/he still isn't black.
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You know what, I'm not going to try to explain the nuanced difference between the two and instead and am simply going to say, YES.
 
Mass_Pincup said:
There's no "rule" it depends on the person, black people are not a monolith, we don't all think the same way.

How is that hard to understand?
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I understand it, doesn't mean I agree with it.

Don't you see how it complicates things? Someone can be vehemently explaining how under no circumstances should a white person say it, and then when that is countered with someone else saying that under a group setting, white people actively are saying it without issue, then the statement just becomes "If it's cool with them, then fuck it."
 
The Artisan said:
Who then? Just black people? Because this thread has proven that there's a variety of "rules" that come with each different person.
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All black people aren't the same and instead of risking offending black people who don't cosign the fuckery, just don't use it. Problem solved. What do you lose by not using it?
Don't be like Dee Dah Dave who thinks true equality is white people being able to call us niggers free of consequence
 
The Artisan said:
I understand it, doesn't mean I agree with it.

Don't you see how it complicates things? Someone can be vehemently explaining how under no circumstances should a white person say it, and then when that is countered with someone else saying that under a group setting, white people actively are saying it without issue, then the statement just becomes "If it's cool with them, then fuck it."
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I don't understand what you want? Should black people vote for some kind of representative group for us to settle this?

If that's so complicated don't use it, it's not an overly important word that you can't live without, there's plenty of over endearing words you could use instead of this one.
 
Cesare Borgia said:
Always found it interesting that people (specifically white people) single out black people for turning slurs into terms of endearment. No one is outraged that many Polish Americans people use "Pollack" as a term of endearment, or some gay people have made various gay slurs terms of endearment. This is not some black exclusive phenomena, it's been observed from many minority groups who faced/face discrimination and/or oppression.
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To be fair with other cultures they haven't reached mainstream like black culture. Personally, I don't see many college people pumping Polish music or other Traditional european ethinc music. But things like Rap and R&B is world wide. Black Vines, Black Twitter, the Accent and colloquialisms are so incredible popular too.
 
Enzom21 said:
All black people aren't the same and instead of risking offending black people who don't cosign the fuckery, just don't use it. Problem solved. What do you lose by not using it?
Don't be like Dee Dah Dave who thinks true equality is white people being able to call us niggers free of consequence
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To avoid any sort of that, I don't use it. It's used quite frequently around me, though.More often with non-black people than black people.
Mass_Pincup said:
I don't understand what you want? Should black people vote for some kind of representative group for us to settle this?

If that's so complicated don't use it, it's not an overly important word that you can't live without, there's plenty of over endearing words you could use instead of this one.
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I don't use it. What do you think? Give me your opinion. Should it be exclusively allowed for black people or should other minorities be free to use it?
 
The Artisan said:
I understand it, doesn't mean I agree with it.

Don't you see how it complicates things? Someone can be vehemently explaining how under no circumstances should a white person say it, and then when that is countered with someone else saying that under a group setting, white people actively are saying it without issue, then the statement just becomes "If it's cool with them, then fuck it."
Click to expand...

Its not even complicated. Just dont use it if you arent black. Done. This whole "non white non black people complicate this so.much" narrative plays it off like social constructs all have perfect definitions. They dont. We know the N word can be offensive coming out of a non black mouth so dont use it then. Easy.

You cant ask random black people for a dictionary definition of an ever change social construct that has like grade 2 level rules. Dont uae if white. Otherwise asteriks. How is this hard?
 
I hate the assumption that ALL black people use the N word. I grew up in bad neighborhoods and grew up with groups of people who use it all the time and groups of people who don't, all black. If group A used that word against group B, there would be a fight, it didn't matter that they were all black, it was still offensive.

The moral of this story is that while there are communities within the black community that use this word, it is not everyone. People who are not in the black community and want to use that word only get to in certain groups of friends that deem it OK. They can't just use that word anywhere and to anyone because its a very loaded word with a long history you can't ignore. So out of respect and to avoid confrontation, its smart not to use it.
 
You tell them the history of the word, and then you ask them why the fuck they so desperately want to say it?

You also then proceed to drop your friend, because she sounds shady as hell.
 
The Artisan said:
To avoid any sort of that, I don't use it. It's used quite frequently around me, though.More often with non-black people than black people.

I don't use it. What do you think? Give me your opinion. Should it be exclusively allowed for black people or should other minorities be free to use it?
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I'm not gonna go too deep with it, but it does happen. Grew up with a kid named Samir..we said it back and forth..no issues. Puerto Rican Miguel. Mexican Francisco. Dominican Gabby. Mainly, brown minorities tend to get a pass..usually because some assholes don't discriminate..they'll call them niggers too. Now, that's not a universal thing. I'm just giving you an example of certain folks who don't catch the stink eye.
Numb said:
lol you always on him just in case
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Edited it like four times before I was like "Fuck it!"
 
The Artisan said:
I don't use it. What do you think? Give me your opinion. Should it be exclusively allowed for black people or should other minorities be free to use it?
Click to expand...

Personally I would prefer if only black people would use it, but If another black thinks it's ok for minorities to use it around him then good for him.

The most important thing for me is that people should understand that just because someone is cool with it doesn't mean that they're free to use it with everyone else.

It's like around friends you can use some insult as endearing words but you won't try to do it with someone you just met, same thing here.*

*That's my opinion and it doesn't represent the opinion of fellow black people.
 
The Artisan said:
So then really this sentiment of "other minorities can use it" doesn't exist.
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Not if you are so concerned about the context that you just wanna throw the baby out with the bath water. This is simple rules if the thorough ass explanations you have gotten are not working for you.
 
Gordon Shumway said:
I'm not gonna go too deep with it, but it does happen. Grew up with a kid named Samir..we said it back and forth..no issues. Puerto Rican Miguel. Mexican Francisco. Dominican Gabby. Mainly, brown minorities tend to get a pass..usually because some assholes don't discriminate..they'll call them niggers too. Now, that's not a universal thing. I'm just giving you an example of certain folks who don't catch the stink eye.

Edited it like four times before I was like "Fuck it!"
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I know it happens yo, its happened to me too.
Mass_Pincup said:
Personally I would prefer if only black people would use it, but If another black thinks it's ok for minorities to use it around him then good for him.

The most important thing for me is that people should understand that just because someone is cool with it doesn't mean that they're free to use it with everyone else.

It's like around friends you can use some insult as endearing words but you won't try to do it with someone you just met, some thing here.*

*That's my opinion and it doesn't represent the opinion of fellow black people.
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If this is the case I'd really just rather no one else said it, but when it happens it just stirs the pot more in my opinion.
Gotdatmoney said:
Not if you are so concerned about the context that you just wanna throw the baby out with the bath water. This is simple rules if the thorough ass explanations you have gotten are not working for you.
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If anything these explanations have shown me how convoluted the situation is. But anyways, I don't use the word, that's the most important part. So we should be good, right?

It shouldn't matter that I don't like the logic because I'm still abiding by it.
 
Ray Wonder said:
You have me mistaken. I don't think it should be. I know the words offends people, so I won't use it in company of people it will offend..



I never said that. I said I use it privately because I'm constantly surrounded by it
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"Gentlemen, let us retire to the Nigga Room so that we might partake of some after dinner conversation."
 
The Artisan said:
Who then? Just black people? Because this thread has proven that there's a variety of "rules" that come with each different person.
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Artisan, it's as simple as this: every black person is different and they all have different opinions. If one black person is okay with you using the word, when you come to another black person, your security clearance stops at the first black person. The is no all-encompassing rule (even if someone tells you there is) because there is no black hivemind. If I tell you I'm okay with you saying it, don't go to the next person and say it.

Same thing as if we're the best of friends and I give you a key to my house, that key doesn't work at anyone else's house. And just because I gave you that key, it doesn't mean I give all my friends a key.

So play it safe and don't use it unless you're told otherwise and limit it to that person or group.
 
The Artisan said:
If anything these explanations have shown me how convoluted the situation is. But anyways, I don't use the word, that's the most important part. So we should be good, right?

It shouldn't matter that I don't like the logic because I'm still abiding by it.
Click to expand...

You are asking for a forum people to give you a definitive answer to an issue of an evolving social construct. The extent your going to doscredit the legitmacy of this issue worries me far more than whether you personally say it. This isnt me implying racism either, itw the idea that if a construct has no purely agreed upon definiion its therefore some forign bullshit that a lot of people seem to believe in.

Do you haave an agreed upon definition of racism? Is racism hard to identify something blatamtly racist even if the true meanimg isnt fully agreed upon?
 
TalonJH said:
Artisan, it's as simple as this: every black person is different and they all have different opinions. If one black person is okay with you using the word, when you come to another black person, your security clearance stops at the first black person. The is no all-encompassing rule (even if someone tells you there is) because there is no black hivemind. If I tell you I'm okay with you saying it, don't go to the next person and say it.

Same thing as if we're the best of friends and I give you a key to my house, that key doesn't work at anyone else's house.
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Trust me, I understand that.

Here's where the confusion comes in: earlier in this thread it was stated that minorities sometimes are allowed to say it. My response was, why is it sometimes and not all the time?

Then based on the conversations I've had with everyone, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter, and that "sometimes" didn't mean anything, because it's all about a group setting like you said. If there's a white person in a group of a bunch of best friends that are African-American and uses the word, it is exactly the same as a non-black colored person saying the word; it doesn't matter that this person isn't white, because s/he still isn't black. So them getting a pass on it is essentially the same as a white person saying it. There are no "exceptions" for minorities.
Gotdatmoney said:
You are asking for a forum people to give you a definitive answer to an issue of an evolving social construct. The extent your going to doscredit the legitmacy of this issue worries me far more than whether you personally say it. This isnt me implying racism either, itw the idea that if a construct has no purely agreed upon definiion its therefore some forign bullshit that a lot of people seem to believe in.
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I think you made your point, man. I didn't get the answer I was looking for but I think my deduction of it might be something everyone else would agree with.

Do you haave an agreed upon definition of racism? Is racism hard to identify something blatamtly racist even if the true meanimg isnt fully agreed upon?
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Well there is a textbook definition of it, I'd assume most people go by that.
 
PseudoKirby said:
I personally think no one should be saying it.
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I...agree with you, but that doesn't change anything. I grew up in a family in which it was not said so I never got used to saying it or hearing it in daily conversation. It kind of jars me a bit to hear it from time to time, but it is what it is and I roll with it.
 
Bobby Roberts said:
This doesn't answer the question I posed at the end of my post: If you don't think it should be around, why are you reticent to do your part in not using it? Why are you making your decision to stop using it conditional?

That you don't realize your argument can be expanded upon very easily to suggest that your pass should become everybody's pass is part of the problem I'm trying to get you to look at. You can't simultaneously argue against the word ever being used while admitting that you still freely use it, even in situations where you're cognizant of the context allowing it.

So yes, you need to explain why you're essentially suggesting that the word needs to go away, but you won't stop using it until Black people stop using it first.

(the fallacy at the heart of that particular argument is already being addressed by the other posters - I'm just trying to poke at the inherent hypocrisy at the core of your justifications for continuing to use it.)

I understand that it probably does make you feel special in some way to know you're more or less getting away with a cultural taboo, that you've got permission to play around in an area a lot of people don't get to. That you've gotten your hands on yet another privilege that you didn't really have to work all that hard for. That even, on some level, you might be looking at this shit as a well-earned reward for being a good ally to your Black friends. Who/why would someone begrudge you that indulgence, right?

But if you actually give a shit about the word's usage dying out like you say you do, why aren't you begrudging yourself that usage?

That's what it all gets back to: What is it about your ability to use that word repercussion free that has you willing to make the argument that everyone else has to stop using it too? What are you getting out of using it that you're not really willing to give up in return for your stated goal of diminishing its presence in the culture overall?
Click to expand...

I care if it goes away or not, I do, but I'm not going to pretend that me ceasing to use it privately is going to change anything meaningful in an appreciable amount of time. I'm also not making it conditional. I haven't said, if you stop, I'll stop. If it didn't surround me, I'd probably be less likely to use it. That's it. Below has more relevant to this.

Gordon Shumway said:
Wait wait wait. YOU say it??

comment_sQ05sRzjgN2urqYuO9nrgGtyuetSYUZC.gif


Fuck outta here. Lead by fucking example, boss! Done as fuck..
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I never said you should lead by example. I'm not calling anyone out to be the noble hero of the N word and be the bigger person by ceasing using it.

My point is extremely simple. It's that the less that it's used, the shorter it's lifespan is. No one has to do this though. I don't care if anyone does, because I know, that either way, it's going to be around until way after I'm dead.


Aselith said:
"Gentlemen, let us retire to the Nigga Room so that we might partake of some after dinner conversation."
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I don't spout it out like it's my normal vernacular. It's used in context of song lyrics mostly. tbh. I don't even close to say it daily even.
 
HyperCubed4 said:
Who's the chairman?
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Depends on who you ask. To most people it's the man who ended racism... king negro Obama.
To others it's MLKjr(but only when they want to chastise black people for not being respectable) but sometimes it's Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson when the "blacks" are being too uppity.
 
Generally white people can't say it to blacks because of the past. It's hard to decipher why they are using a word that can do great harm, but that they are completely not affected by. Is it good intent, or bad? Are you smiling at me from underneath saying that I'm inferior? Now with blacks saying it to one another you don't have to worry about the race component, or the mind games, just go by context.
 
PBY said:
You do realize the bolded is bullshit right?


Don't understand this post at all, especially the bolded.
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How do you not understand this post at all?
As for the bolded, I mean to say that people don't know each other's gender or race online. Someone raised with the Internet will not have race in mind.
 
The Artisan said:
Trust me, I understand that.

Here's where the confusion comes in: earlier in this thread it was stated that minorities sometimes are allowed to say it. My response was, why is it sometimes and not all the time?

Then based on the conversations I've had with everyone, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter, and that "sometimes" didn't mean anything, because it's all about a group setting like you said. If there's a white person in a group of a bunch of best friends that are African-American and uses the word, it is exactly the same as a non-black colored person saying the word; it doesn't matter that this person isn't white, because s/he still isn't black. So them getting a pass on it is essentially the same as a white person saying it. There are no "exceptions" for minorities.I think you made your point, man. I didn't get the answer I was looking for but I think my deduction of it might be something everyone else would agree with.
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You pretty much have it, I think. To be honest, non-white minorities do more often get a pass by some people(because everyone has their opinion) because there is sometimes a sense of, "you get the struggle", "you're dealing with some of the same problems". Also, to be clear It's not a per use thing but more a per person thing.

Edit: Also, just to be clear of my feelings, I'm black but I don't use the word. I did when I was younger, though. It wasn't some racial moral choice, I just decided to stop cursing as much and I lump it in with cursing. I don't care when other black people use it and I find it offensive when I hear non-blacks use it..."sometimes".
 
Ray Wonder said:
My point is extremely simple. It's that the less that it's used, the shorter it's lifespan is. No one has to do this though. I don't care if anyone does, because I know, that either way, it's going to be around until way after I'm dead.
Click to expand...
Then another word comes along to replace it and so on

The word isn't the problem it's the baggage the word carries with it
 
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