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[The Artisan]

And I'm sure at a point in his life, Emimen said the word around his black friends pretty often too.

And David Banner doesn't speak for all black people in this manner. I could make a list of black people who oppose every meaning of the word. Their aren't any hard rules with the N-Word just nuances and consequences. If I were a white rapper and I was writing a song. I could write a line that had nigga with no intentions to disparage anyone or I could just not write that line. The consequences for the former is that some people may not care about it and others could take offense to it and could refuse to work with me or write an article judging my character. There aren't any consequences for the latter. For white rappers, their best bet is just to not say it all.

I'm not saying David Banner speaks for all black people, I'm just pointing out that there isn't a consensus for it. Which means that, at least to me, in order to have some objective rules about who does and does not get to say it, we need people to agree on it. But no two people in the world will ever agree on anything, ever. If not even identical twins, then not anyone.

Nigga, who is this "we" you are speaking of?

Huh? I never spoke of any "we", but in this post here you literally wrote "other minorities are sometimes given a pass to say "nigga" because we recognize them as being similar to our culture and history of oppression and racism"

Did we collectively as black people come down and slap you in your face for using the n-word? For non-black minorities it's up to you to feel out the situation and use the word within your discretion. It's that fucking simple.

That's almost the same thing you said about white people using it too. The main thing you said is that they shouldn't say it, but for those who use the word with their discretion like you said, they must face the consequences - would/should the consequences be the same for minorities?

Honestly, if you are having problems understanding this then maybe you shouldn't be using the word in the first place. Like, why do you even want to use it so badly anyway?

What gives you the idea I'm obsessively trying to use it? I'm just trying to get behind the logic you prose.

Again, non-black minorities ain't black so they by definition ain't been through the same shit we have and continue to go through. So that is why you do not get an unqualified right to use the word. What you get is a revocable pass which can be revoked and given back to you by any black person around you. It's not rocket science.

Right, it's not rocket science so it shouldn't be so complicated. I've had black friends saying it to me and non-black friends saying it to me and I don't know for sure if it's right for me to say it to, despite it being said to me. If it's okay, then I want to be able to use it freely the same way my peers do it.

For further perspective, another reason why I'm taking this quite seriously is because I like rapping (not my own raps, I just like performing it) - I end up rapping Eminem a lot not just because he's my favorite but because he doesn't use that word. I don't use it on purpose in fear of offending people but here you are telling me that sometimes it is allowed, sometimes it is not. If that's the case, why even take the risk of being in the wrong? Might as well just behave the same as white people should and not say it at all, right?

 

[Dusk Soldier]

This is Jennifer Lawrence isn't it?

I'm showing my age a bit here, but all this time I thought this was a gif of Mandy Moore.

 

[Ray Wonder]

You don't know what you're talking about.

This is such a good argument.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

It really does have to start with us though. Chamillionaire best said it and he doesn't use it in his raps anymore because he would perform songs at events and the crowd would be a bunch of white college kids reciting every line in a song. The N word would be one of them.

I always look at the rappers that go to SXSW and just perform ignorant trap songs to a crowd of UT college kids mostly white. I'm like all this for a damn check? Are y'all not conscious enough to think about what you doing?

So damn OP, I mean they exist. Some just want to be 'friends' to have that friend of color. Keep your circle small and only with people that keep it real.

Because they're songs? I treat people reciting things, in songs, novels, etc much differently than them just saying it just because. It's like if we were reading Huckleberry Finn in class and a white kid said "nigger" because it was in the passage. Why would I get mad at him? He wasn't just saying it out of the blue

 

[Imm0rt4l]

This reminds me of singing that happened a several years ago. I was visiting my mom and little brother in New Zealand. My brother was in the equivalent of Junior High I believe. I had brought over my Wii from the States, and my brother invited a bunch of his school friends over.

We're playing SSB Brawl and one of the boys selected Link and chose his Dark Link palette and then said, all excitedly, "WHOA LOOK GUYS! I GET TO PLAY AS A NIGGER!"

I was completely stunned and flabbergasted and had no idea what to say.

I know I probably should've said "Whoa now, don't say that especially if you're in the US." But part of it was being so speechless and part of it was me thinking "I'm white, would it be weird or inappropriate for me to criticize him?"

Sadly, I wasn't on GAF at the time otherwise I would've come straight here.

It wouldn't have been strange for you to criticize him, that's the bare minimum of what a good ally would do. To hell with being non-racist, be anti-racist. Not doing so is arguably to be complicit in holding up white supremacy.

 

[Htown]

Yall have jokes. Make arguments if you don't agree. All yall have been doing is repeating what I'm saying with snarky remarks in there that change what I'm saying with "..." after it like I'm stupid and you're obviously the most correct ever recorded.

It's because you're saying dumb shit.

Black people saying "nigger" didn't start white people saying it, why do you think black people not saying it is going to make them stop?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I'm saying technically that's what it is. Why is that hard to admit? It's not a bad thing.

I'm down to call it black privalege. Okay. Now what? Does not saying it equal a W for black people because white people do some shit they are ready are suppose to do by not saying it?

Its not on minorities to model proper behaviour so white people can respect us in the bare minimum sense.

 

[Slayven]

Black Privilege is shitty as fuck, can we reroll?

 

[Frosta]

This is such a good argument.

But you really don't, and there are so many ignorant people like you sadly. I've given up responding to people like yourself a long time ago, it results in wasting my time, then another thread pops up and there are 10 more people like yourself. It's tiring really.

 

[jmood88]

This is such a good argument.

I made my argument already. You don't understand privilege, don't understand racism, and you're choosing to address the symptom and not the real issue.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Black Privilege is shitty as fuck, can we reroll?

Getting incarcerated at a higher rate than our white counterparts of the same class. #BlackPrivilege

 

[Jumeira]

White people complaining why they can't say the N word? Really?

Perhaps black people have never harmed another black person because they detest thier skin colour or African features. The N word became notorious because white people used to dehumanise and at timws kill people because of their skin. It carries weight, and always will for anyone that isn't white.

 

[Htown]

Black Privilege is shitty as fuck, can we reroll?

I dunno man, my build is kinda dependent on those fast twitch muscle fibers, it's gonna be a pain in the ass to respec.

 

[MrToughPants]

This really is a gray area. My rule is to never actually say the word "nigger" no matter what. But at the same time I like listening hip hop and most of the people I listen to say "nigga" a lot and whenever I sing along with the song I say it casually too. My brother actually caught me in the act when we were both visiting from college and he was pretty adamant about not saying that word. Since we have similar music tastes and he sings along a lot too I asked him what he replaced the word with. His reply was the word "fucker" and I literally laughed out loud because that isn't exactly better

Eh, I say it when rapping in my rap car.

 

[Ray Wonder]

It's because you're saying dumb shit.

Black people saying "nigger" didn't start white people saying it, why do you think black people not saying it is going to make them stop?

OK, so if black people were going around saying Ape or Monkey to each other, you don't think it would be a more common word?

I'm not saying the N word isn't all white people's fault.

I'm saying using it less will make it less prevalent. That's a simple connection.

 

[Slayven]

Getting incarcerated at a higher rate than our white counterparts of the same class. #BlackPrivilege

Getting suspended in school at a higher rate then white counterparts #Blackprivilege

 

[Aselith]

Yall have jokes. Make arguments if you don't agree. All yall have been doing is repeating what I'm saying with snarky remarks in there that change what I'm saying with "..." after it like I'm stupid and you're obviously the most correct ever recorded.

Gordon Shumway ends most of his posts with ellipses regardless of context lol

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Yall have jokes. Make arguments if you don't agree. All yall have been doing is repeating what I'm saying with snarky remarks in there that change what I'm saying with "..." after it like I'm stupid and you're obviously the most correct ever recorded.



That's fine. Please don't take jabs at me if you're not willing to make your point known then. It's frustrating to look at. Just disagreeing is good.

We stop saying it. They keep saying it. You wanna disagree? Knock yourself out. You'd be wrong, in my opinion, but that's the world we live in. A world where plenty of white folks wouldn't be caught dead listening to rap/hip hop, and see a black person and say nigger. Aren't around black people, yet say nigger. Look at half white Obama, and nigger nigger nigger.

But yeah, we need to be the example..good point. Sorry if snarky..

You don't know what you're talking about.

Hmm..

Gordon Shumway ends most of his posts with ellipses regardless of context lol

And people HATE it..lol. Just a thing I started doing ages ago.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Yall have jokes. Make arguments if you don't agree.

Here's my argument: Your hood pass is non-transferable and only legal tender with the specific person who issued it to you. Context matters. Taking your pass, one you've enjoyed since 2nd Grade, according to your first post in this thread, and arguing that it should be universal, is going to take a lot more thought, balanced with a lot more nuance and consideration, than what you're currently applying to your argument.

You need to explain why your experience getting to chew on that word more or less repercussion free for the majority of your life could, and should, be every other White person's experience too, and why the responsibility of diminishing the negative repercussions of your making your pass freely transferable cultural currency lies with Black culture in general.

Essentially, make the case for why the feeling and satisfaction of getting to say that word repercussion-free is worth that much to you that you're willing to argue "hey, you wanna stop me using it, stop saying it, because I'm sure as shit not gonna pitch in on that end anytime soon until you go first."

 

[Ray Wonder]

OK there're a lot of people making replies now. It's going to take me a while to respond since I'm only one person.

I'm down to call it black privalege. Okay. Now what? Does not saying it equal a W for black people because white people do some shit they are ready are suppose to do by not saying it?

Its not on minorities to model proper behaviour so white people can respect us in the bare minimum sense.

That's fine. I'm just saying that using it less will make it a less common word. I'm not saying that should happen.

Black Privilege is shitty as fuck, can we reroll?

Yes it is, and I wish you could too.

I made my argument already. You don't understand privilege, don't understand racism, and you're choosing to address the symptom and not the real issue.

I'm not saying there's not a bigger problem. There is. I'm not allowed to discuss one thing without the other? I have to bring up the big picture when discussing certain points?

 

[jmood88]

OK, so if black people were going around saying Ape or Monkey to each other, you don't think it would be a more common word?

I'm not saying the N word isn't all white people's fault.

I'm saying using it less will make it less prevalent. That's a simple connection.

Rap didn't exist until the late 70's, so what's the excuse for nigger persisting from slavery until then?

 

[Keasar]

I was sitting with a couple of friends drinking beer, when one girl asks a guy "So you're pretty dark, are you half-nigger or something".

First, I would laugh cause goddamn that just came out of nowhere.

Secondly, to the rest of the thing, I would say its very situational. It is a pretty sensitive word but I don't honestly believe its "exclusive", it depends on the context of how the word is used. In a derogatory term towards black people, absolutely fucking wrong. In a comedic sense like how Louis C.K jokes about people saying "the N-word", pretty okay.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

OK, so if black people were going around saying Ape or Monkey to each other, you don't think it would be a more common word?

I'm not saying the N word isn't all white people's fault.

I'm saying using it less will make it less prevalent. That's a simple connection.

What does the prevalence have to do with anything? It could be 1 white person saying it, or 10,000 white people saying it, and in both cases they're ignorant at best.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Rap didn't exist until the late 70's, so what's the excuse for nigger persisting from slavery until then?

Old nigger spirituals..

 

[Ray Wonder]

What does the prevalence have to do with anything? It could be 1 white person saying it, or 10,000 white people saying it, and in both cases they're ignorant at best.

If you go further back in that discussion you'll see it was about people using it less.

Rap didn't exist until the late 70's, so what's the excuse for nigger persisting from slavery until then?

Racist people

We stop saying it. They keep saying it. You wanna disagree? Knock yourself out. You'd be wrong, in my opinion, but that's the world we live in. A world where plenty of white folks wouldn't be caught dead listening to rap/hip hop, and see a black person and say nigger. Aren't around black people, yet say nigger. Look at half white Obama, and nigger nigger nigger.

But yeah, we need to be the example..good point. Sorry if snarky..

It's not that they will stop saying it instantly. I'm saying using a word less, no matter what, is going to help in fazing it out in the long run. Using a word less will make it less prevalent, so eventually it goes away. This is not something that I believe is going to happen in our grandchildren's grandchildren's lifetimes mind you. It may not even be THAT much faster. But logically, to me, it seems that less frequency, less prevalence, equals shorter lifespan.

 

[afternoon delight]

I can't imagining being so socially inept that I'd ask "Your skin is different, you some sort of <racial slur>?"

And to then double down on the semantics of the use of the word nigger? Shit is unseemly as fuck.

Like, it's a legit reason to dump whatever meal you had in your hand and walk away.

 

[The Artisan]

Old nigger spirituals..

You know, someone in another thread told me you were a racist, but I couldn't tell if they were joking or not.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I see C.K. has been posted for the first of many times..

You know, someone in another thread told me you were a racist, but I couldn't tell if they were joking or not.

What lol..

 

[partyphone]

I am endlessly amused by white people who can't understand this simple fucking concept.

 

[Primethius]

It's crazy to me that some white people think they should be allowed to say the word, for whatever reason. Or even other minorities.

I'm not black, I'm brown. I've been called "sand-nigger". But the thought never really crossed my mind that wow, now I can say the word too.

Anyways, some fantastic posts in here that I should get back to reading.

 

[The Artisan]

What lol..

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199236068&postcount=244

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I am endlessly amused by white people who can't understand this simple fucking concept.

When you tell a child they can't do a thing, they do it. If you enforce it, they'll go apeshit, until you let them..

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199236068&postcount=244

LMAO that's just jokes, brother..

 

[Prime crotch]

If you're in Bulgaria I think you should cut the girl some slack, in most Eastern European countries they barely even seen a black person and yet still get bombarded by American media. It's not talking to a wall, but you got a lot of field to cover.

 

[Slayven]

I see C.K. has been posted for the first of many times..

What lol..

you got the juice now

 

[Numb]

Black Privilege is shitty as fuck, can we reroll?

You make due with what you are born with
Even if it's shitty

 

[masud]

I don't get mad at white people who use the word the way it's used in urban America, as another word for dude (ie "check out that white nigga over there."). I might think you're a phoney or an idiot but that's it. But it rubs me the wrong way when white people use it as another word for black, I don't see how that can be anything but racist.

 

[User 73706]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199236068&postcount=244

LOL

 

[The Artisan]

It's crazy to me that some white people think they should be allowed to say the word, for whatever reason. Or even other minorities.

I'm not black, I'm brown. I've been called "sand-nigger". But the thought never really crossed my mind that wow, now I can say the word too.

Anyways, some fantastic posts in here that I should get back to reading.

I'm brown too and I've also been called sand nigger, I dunno about you but it bothers the hell outta me when people say that Middle Eastern people are of the same race as South Indian people. Not that sand nigger is okay to say to begin with but it's slurring Arabs. It's wrong on all counts.

Anyways, about the bolded, I've been having a discussion with someone about that in particular. Trying to keep it civil, I really want to really know what the discrepancy is all about.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

I'm not saying David Banner speaks for all black people, I'm just pointing out that there isn't a consensus for it. Which means that, at least to me, in order to have some objective rules about who does and does not get to say it, we need people to agree on it. But no two people in the world will ever agree on anything, ever. If not even identical twins, then not anyone.

Huh? I never spoke of any "we", but in this post here you literally wrote "other minorities are sometimes given a pass to say "nigga" because we recognize them as being similar to our culture and history of oppression and racism" That's almost the same thing you said about white people using it too. The main thing you said is that they shouldn't say it, but for those who use the word with their discretion like you said, they must face the consequences - would/should the consequences be the same for minorities?What gives you the idea I'm obsessively trying to use it? I'm just trying to get behind the logic you prose.

Right, it's not rocket science so it shouldn't be so complicated. I've had black friends saying it to me and non-black friends saying it to me and I don't know for sure if it's right for me to say it to, despite it being said to me. If it's okay, then I want to be able to use it freely the same way my peers do it.

For further perspective, another reason why I'm taking this quite seriously is because I like rapping (not my own raps, I just like performing it) - I end up rapping Eminem a lot not just because he's my favorite but because he doesn't use that word. I don't use it on purpose in fear of offending people but here you are telling me that sometimes it is allowed, sometimes it is not. If that's the case, why even take the risk of being in the wrong? Might as well just behave the same as white people should and not say it at all, right?

Yeah.

You are the one making it complicated and frankly since you are having such a hard time grasping "the rules" then you shouldn't use the word at all. I don't know what your friends calling you "nigga" has to do with whether you can use the word, black people do not use the word "nigga" to refer exclusively to other black people. I've already spelled out the rules, either you accept them or you can keep complaining about them but they aren't going to change.

 

[theignoramus]

Getting incarcerated at a higher rate than our white counterparts of the same class. #BlackPrivilege

I think sometimes a black may think they don’t have an advantage or this and that... I’ve said on one occasion, even about myself, if I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I believe they do have an actual advantage.’’

#BlackPrivilege

 

[qcf x2]

Rap didn't exist until the late 70's, so what's the excuse for nigger persisting from slavery until then?

Oppression, still being treated by society as subhuman and varying acceptance of such? That's a silly retort tbh. It persisted because from slavery they were taught and reminded of what they supposedly were ...subhuman. The idea that it was beautifully converted into a term of endearment is disappointing and shortsighted conjecture.

 

[The Artisan]

Yeah.

You are the one making it complicated and frankly since you are having such a hard time grasping "the rules" then you shouldn't use the word at all.

I'm not the one who made the "rules", I'm not the one trying to complicate things. I'm trying to understand them.

I don't know what your friends calling you "nigga" has to do with whether you can use the word, black people do not use the word "nigga" to refer exclusively to other black people. I've already spelled out the rules, either you accept them or you can keep complaining about them but they aren't going to change.

Who gets to decide what the rules are? I've had conversations with others in this thread about how there isn't even a proper consensus for them. The reason I'm complaining is because it seems contradictory to me, I've told you why. I'm happy to explain it again if you wish to further this discussion with me.

Edit: the fact that you bolded those specific parts of my posts gives me the impression that you want to "win" this debate by vilifying me in some way shape or form, when I'm just trying to gain your perspective and even mentioned that last part to give you a better understanding of mine. But it doesn't define my stance on this. I also get the feeling that for a large part of this you had the mindset that I was white.

 

[Enzom21]

Racist people

And now it's no longer the racists keeping it alive? Did racism disappear as well?

LMAO that's just jokes, brother..

Anti-semitism and the biggest racist on the board... I guess this really is you...

I'm not the one who made the "rules", I'm not the one trying to complicate things. I'm trying to understand them.Who gets to decide what the rules are? I've had conversations with others in this thread about how there isn't even a proper consensus for them. The reason I'm complaining is because it seems contradictory to me, I've told you why. I'm happy to explain it again if you wish to further this discussion with me.

If you're not black then certainly not you.

 

[Ray Wonder]

Here's my argument: Your hood pass is non-transferable and only legal tender with the specific person who issued it to you. Context matters. Taking your pass, one you've enjoyed since 2nd Grade, according to your first post in this thread, and arguing that it should be universal, is going to take a lot more thought, balanced with a lot more nuance and consideration, than what you're currently applying to your argument.

You have me mistaken. I don't think it should be. I know the words offends people, so I won't use it in company of people it will offend..

Essentially, make the case for why the feeling and satisfaction of getting to say that word repercussion-free is worth that much to you that you're willing to argue "hey, you wanna stop me using it, stop saying it, because I'm sure as shit not gonna pitch in on that end anytime soon until you go first."

I never said that. I said I use it privately because I'm constantly surrounded by it.

You need to explain why your experience getting to chew on that word more or less repercussion free for the majority of your life could, and should, be every other White person's experience too, and why the responsibility of diminishing the negative repercussions of your making your pass freely transferable cultural currency lies with Black culture in general.

No I don't, because I don't think it should be. I'd rather it went tf away.

And now it's no longer the racists keeping it alive? Did racism disappear as well?

Nope, it didn't, but whereas racism has decreased, thus weakening the prevalence of the word. The acceptance of the word in modern culture has strengthened it.

It's multiple things. Including racism.

 

[LeleSocho]

I am endlessly amused by white people who can't understand this simple fucking concept.

That's because generally speaking what essentially is banning a word is unheard of.

Fake edit: Before everyone jumps at my throat, i know that no one is banning the n word and obviously i don't use it i'm only explaining why some uneducated people might find the concept hard to understand.

 

[Sai-kun]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199236068&postcount=244

help

 

[Alandrus Sun]

I'm not the one who made the "rules", I'm not the one trying to complicate things. I'm trying to understand them.Who gets to decide what the rules are? I've had conversations with others in this thread about how there isn't even a proper consensus for them. The reason I'm complaining is because it seems contradictory to me, I've told you why. I'm happy to explain it again if you wish to further this discussion with me.

And this was all spelled out for you. Non-black minorities must use discretion when using the world and/or get permission. This is because there is no consensus within the black community with regards to non-black minorities using the word. The only real consensus we appear to have is that white people CANNOT say it. That is your rule, there is nothing more to understand, nothing more to pick apart, analyze or discuss.

 

[The Artisan]

If you're not black then certainly not you.

Who then? Just black people? Because this thread has proven that there's a variety of "rules" that come with each different person.

 

[partyphone]

That's because generally speaking what essentially is banning a word is unheard of.

Fake edit: Before everyone jumps at my throat, i know that no one is banning the n word and obviously i don't use it i'm only explaining why some uneducated people might find the concept hard to understand.

except there are a bunch of words you can't use in certain contexts. like ain't no one callin' their mom a cunt.

 

[The Artisan]

And this was all spelled out for you. Non-black minorities must use discretion when using the world and/or get permission. This is because there is no consensus within the black community with regards to non-black minorities using the word. The only real consensus we appear to have is that white people CANNOT say it. That is your rule, there is nothing more to understand, nothing more to pick apart, analyze or discuss.

So like I said then, there really is no difference between the "rules" of a white person saying the word and a non-black colored person saying the word, is there? Anyone who isn't black risks offending someone and therefore should not say it.

The "exceptions" you spoke of sounded like the same "exceptions" that come within a group of friends. In that, if a group of friends who are African Americans are cool with their caucasian friend saying it, it is the same exception they make for a colored friend saying it. It doesn't matter that this friend is colored, because s/he still isn't black.