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[Lombax]

Why is "let me talk to the manager" bullshit? I suppose it depends on the dealer but it's reasonable to expect the sales manager to have the final say on pricing below a certain threshold.

At least in my experience that is nothing more than something that wastes my time. I was at a Toyota dealer a while back and they took so long to get an answer on was basically a yes or no question about the deal I came to them with I actually barged into the office grabbed my keys and said "email whatever to decide to me later today".

Edit: Oh right and this dude had the nerve to say "I might not get around to emailing you until tomorrow." The sales people that drive me nuts are the ones who act as if they are doing me some kind of favor.

 

[SpotAnime]

All you need to do is go on KBB or Edmunds, look up fair value of the make/model in your area, request online quotes and play those quotes against eachother until you get the deal you want. You don't even need to go into the showroom for the majority of the work.

As a matter of fact, when I was in the market years ago, one of the dealers I contacted couldn't match the best deal but gave me a deal on the previous year's model they were trying to unload for thousands less, and I had it under cost.

And always negotiate the deal first before letting them know you have a trade in.

 

[Fenderputty]

Never talk what you can afford in a month. Talk price and price only. Bring a loan calc app into the negotiation on your phone. Once price is settled tell them how much you're going to pay assuming a quoted interest.

 

[old]

1. Never tell them your maximum

That is what is called privileged information. (Ask them what the car cost the dealer from the manufacturer. They won't tell you that either because that's privileged information). One of the first things they'll do is ask what price range you're looking at. They'll ignore the bottom number and only use the top number. If you say 30-35, they go with 35 and start working up from there. If anything, lie and tell them way below. Tell them "I'm looking for a great deal at 25," and then after all of the upsells you'll end up around 30.

2. Don't fall in love with a car.

They can sense it. Always act like you could take it or leave it. Make them earn the sale with price drops and deal sweeteners. Even if the car is perfect, make up flaws. It's not the right color. The AC isn't cold enough. The speakers don't have enough bass. Whatever. Always seem like you're on the fence at best.

3. Tell them you'd like to take the offer home and think about it.

This will usually bait out some deal sweeteners to get you sign right now. Make them sweat. You don't have to sign right now. If they want that, make them earn it.

 

[Wag]

Watch Used Cars with Kurt Russel first.

 

[Skunkers]

As someone who worked at a dealership a while ago, I have to second that you absolutely do not want to set foot in the dealership until you have a deal you like with the exact options/color/trim/etc in writing and preferably with a small (insist on 100% refundable) deposit. The dealership I worked for was shady and wouldn't hesitate to tell potential customers that they had a particular vehicle in stock even if they didn't. I would get people calling in from 100 miles away asking if we had a car, check with the sales manager to see if it was in stock, he'd say it isn't but ask if they had a deposit, and if not he'd straight up tell me to lie to them. If there's no deposit, than they can say "Oh we had one, but we sold it/let someone test drive it while you were on the way here." and try to flip you onto another car. Their level of closing rate is much higher when you are actually in the dealership, because they have other cars in stock for you to look at, and if you take a test drive you have an additional emotional investment in the car you're buying. MOST dealerships probably aren't this shady, but there is little way to tell. This level of dishonesty is why I immediately left the car selling business. It was a nightmare.

Like others are saying, get several dealers to quote against each other, when you find the deal you like and are serious about, put a small 100% refundable deposit (again insist on this) on it with the exact specs/options in writing over the phone/via fax. I second the notion of not giving them your email address/actual phone number if you can avoid it because it immediately goes into their lead system to spam you even years later. Ideally you want to be a cash buyer or at least have your own financing before you haggle so they can't play games with numbers on the backend. If at any time you suspect something fishy is going on, walk out of the dealership and use another one.

If you do go in person, which again, I don't recommend, I second the poster that said always leave after the first negotiation. They will be more inclined to give you a better deal to get you back into the dealership (doesn't always work this way, but if they are trying to hit quotas, and they often are, it will work). I got $4K off invoice on my WRX this way many years ago.

Also, never go in for the extras they try to add during closing. You want gap insurance, and that is all. No paint protectant bullshit, pinstripes or any of that. The only exception I might consider for this is the pre-paid maintenance plans some of the luxury manufacturers like BMW and Lexus are doing now, as in some cases those are apparently worth it.

 

[dragonflys545]

Never negotiate in person. Car salesmen are the most economically useless and dishonest people on the planet. -Get it in writing.

All you need to do is FAX (email will result in you being on their spam list, so second option) the exact model and features you want to three different dealers and then run a reverse auction..

Treat them like the shit piles they are and have no sympathy or humanity towards them.

This is the worst idea ever... I've worked in a dealership doing insurance, and the shit I've seen salesman do to customers cars were disgusting... This only happens if you treat them like shit or piss them off. beware!

 

[Faddy]

The most important thing is be prepared to walk away.

If you negotiate a figure and you still aren't sure don't feel pressured to close the deal immediately. Take a day, that car isn't going anywhere.

 

[BigWeather]

Sorry for the slight necro...

Anyhow, am going through the process to buy a Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium. Know exactly what we want, what invoice, MSRP, and "fair value" according to Edmunds, Kelley, and TrueCar are. I had Kelley contact three dealers that are near-ish but am holding off having Edmunds and TrueCar as they'll very likely be the same dealers. I'm assuming those dealers will contact me via e-mail in the next day or so.

Reading up-thread, someone meanted Costco Auto. I filled out the information and they sent me contact information for some dealer 75 miles away or so, and it seemed to indicate I'd have to physically go there to see the price. Really? Is that the "no-haggle price" mentioned earlier? Typically where does it fall with respect to invoice? Am I usually better off going Costco over say Kelley?

I'm expecting an additional $1,000 in fees, etc. that isn't normally included in MSRP. A dealer I physically visited earlier this week also said there was a $500 protective coat or something -- for the seats? -- that they claimed they applied to all cars that arrive on the lot. I wasn't too happy about that, I'm assuming that's BS?

Also I have a trade-in. We're talking $500-ish. When do I bring that up? In the past when I mention I have a trade-in the numbers suddenly become very goosey and I'm never sure if I got a good deal or not.

Thanks!

 

[jellies_two]

Make a spreadsheet listing the RRP and all option codes, taxes and charges and final figure
then subtract your desired discount as a % and produce a bottom line figure.

Go into the dealer and present the sales guy with this as a PDF, they will instantly say they can't meet it. Just leave it with them, perhaps with a few dealers, and wait for the call. Be really nice and you are saving them lots of time, state you have the money ready to go and this is what you want. The worst that can happen is they'll come back with a different discount.

Eventually you'll get the deal you want, it'll probably be better than what many people get. But not all - some people finance and they make their money there, or they always buy cars and they're a fav customer. Its difficult to beat everyone.

Then after your contract is produced and checked, make sure you get through Stage II without overpaying for Mats, wheel and paint coating, and all the other up-sell stuff. If you know the prices for things then you know what a good deal is and what isn't..

 

[rokkerkory]

Truecar and done

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I just bought my car 2 months agoish. I was interested in two different cars. Test drove one. Got pricing for it. Let them know where I wanted to be final out the door price. Came back with "the online price isn't the retail price." I called them out on their bullshit. Gave me the price I wanted. Showed me what my monthly payment would be.

Went to other dealer. Test drove. Told them where I wanted to be. They gave me price nowhere near that. I told them I'm interested but not enough to go above my budget. They gave me better price. Still not good enough. Said other dealer gave me X price for the other car I want just as much. They tell me they can't lower more. I tell them if they can't I'll go with the other car. He comes back with a price around the fair purchase price of the Kelley Bluebook average value.

Now at this point I could have played with fire and gone back to the other dealer, but I had a good enough price and in reality I wanted the second car more. Came back the next day and signed the deal.

 

[Cracklox]

Sorry for the slight necro...

Anyhow, am going through the process to buy a Subaru Outback 2.5i Premium. Know exactly what we want, what invoice, MSRP, and "fair value" according to Edmunds, Kelley, and TrueCar are. I had Kelley contact three dealers that are near-ish but am holding off having Edmunds and TrueCar as they'll very likely be the same dealers. I'm assuming those dealers will contact me via e-mail in the next day or so.

Reading up-thread, someone meanted Costco Auto. I filled out the information and they sent me contact information for some dealer 75 miles away or so, and it seemed to indicate I'd have to physically go there to see the price. Really? Is that the "no-haggle price" mentioned earlier? Typically where does it fall with respect to invoice? Am I usually better off going Costco over say Kelley?

I'm expecting an additional $1,000 in fees, etc. that isn't normally included in MSRP. A dealer I physically visited earlier this week also said there was a $500 protective coat or something -- for the seats? -- that they claimed they applied to all cars that arrive on the lot. I wasn't too happy about that, I'm assuming that's BS?

Also I have a trade-in. We're talking $500-ish. When do I bring that up? In the past when I mention I have a trade-in the numbers suddenly become very goosey and I'm never sure if I got a good deal or not.

Thanks!

Good choice of car. I worked at a Subaru dealership for around 5 years a while back. I still recommend them to anyone that asks.

Couple of things I could help with. Firstly the interior protection package is bullocks, as you suspected. They do actually sell it for that price, but its usually sold by a bubbly young girl who kinda takes advantage of the fact you're already spending 10,20,30k+ on something. Whats another grand worth of window tinting and paint protection right? We'll just add it to the finance package

The bottle of stuff they use costs anywhere from about 20 to 80 bucks, and then it takes someone, usually 15-30 minutes or so to apply. Thats then gets sold for $500 or sometimes more or sometimes less. That whole venture is actually one the biggest sources of profit for the dealership when all the sales numbers are all added up.

And yeah a lot of dealers like you to head in before talking price. Get you to drive the car, by you a coffee, butter you up a bit and then start talking price if they sense you're a serious buyer.

And no reason, not to bring up the trade in early on. Telling them halfway through negotiating will only complicate things. It will also give you an extra point of negotiation, where you might be able to squeeze a little extra value out of the trade to get to a good figure.

Also if you can, and its been mentioned a few times earlier in the thread, wait till a week or so before the end of the month That's usually when the crunch really begins to hit monthly sales figures, so you're more likely to get a good deal.

Can't really help with the other stuff, as I'm not familiar with Truecar etc, but good luck with it all anyway!

 

[SpecX]

Last car purchase we made was online and that's how it will be going forward. Email the dealer's what u wanna pay and ask them to match it. Once one bites work with them and you should only have to deal with the online sales manager when u show up in person.

 

[zorlaczerohero]

Get a loan elsewhere as others have said if you don't have cash, but don't tell them that, take an interest in their loan offers, work out the deal based on what they will give you with their loan provider. Chances are they'll go lower knowing the kickbacks from finance will keep them in profit. When you have the price in writing pay for it with whatever finance you have set up. They'll get really shitty about it but can't really do fuck all. I just did this with a camper trailer here in Aus, got the price down by $1000, got a shit load of extras thrown in then phoned later and said "I'd like to pay off what I owe now please", "Erm what about finance?", "changed my mind, here's my debit card details...".

 

[navii]

Last year I got a Mini over the telephone, obviously I test drove it first at a dealer, then I called/emailed all the dealers in my area (even some over 100kms away) then when I was talking to them I would say one dealer said this, one dealer said that, and try to to get down to the price I wanted. I wasnt ridiculous though and possibly people with better negotiating skills get even better deals, but in the end I was happy with my price.

So, to sum up:
1) I emailed / called. Next time I buy a new car I will just call.
2) When talking to the dealers I told them that one dealer agreed to X price and asked if they can go lower, then when they would agree I would tell the next dealer an even lower price. I wasn't being too greedy though and when the dealer hit a price I wanted I stopped talking to other dealers and paid the deposit immediately.
3) From the outset I told the dealers the lowest price is my most important deciding factor.

Furthermore, I asked the dealer what cars they had available right now in the engine size I wanted, Cooper "S". I didnt care for any other options or even paint colours. Sure if it was a horrible paint colour I wouldn't buy it. I would have liked to have some options that my car did not come with, but the end price and the engine was the most important to me and I let the dealer know that, whatever extra options the car had that he offered to me was just a bonus for me, but as far as he knew I did not care about the extras, just wanted the "S" and the lowest price. In short I had to be flexible on many things, its possible if ure a better negotiator you dont have to be.

 

[CryptiK]

Shop around negotiate are standards

One special one thats a must: don't be a cunt

That one is a big one, used to instantly make me want to tell you to fuck off or rip you off somehow else where.

 

[sazzy]

If you know which manufacturer and model you want, Google enthusiast forums for that brand.

If there is a dedicated community, they tend to have annual (leaked?) spreadsheets showing exact costs to dealerships, for different parts of the US, plus other costs.

Start your negotiations there.

 

[Apathy]

No matter what they say, you say, "I’ll walk out of here right now!"

 

[TwoDurans]

While you're sitting alone in their office for a half hour while they "talk to their manager" call a different dealership from the same car company and speak to a salesman. You only have to make one trip and can play them off each other.

 

[bjork]

You take your dad with you so when he plays up all the minor imperfections like you're looking at a totaled car and he goes, "it's your money, but I wouldn't buy this fucking thing" they knock a bunch off the price for you. Then you pay cash and drive home with a cool car.