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[Ziltoidia 9]

To me it isn't about the crime committed, I want it to be a corrections industry, not a punish industry. I guess where I'm conflicted on, when it comes to tax payers, is if its considered an optional procedure. I just don't know enough about the science behind gender/sex and the effects on brains to be able to be completely for or against it.

 

[Danis Saur]

I understand if my tax money going to take care of someone with cancer or a mental illness, but a sex-reassignment surgery?

What were you thinking?

 

[Matty77]

In some cases( and I do think in this case their should be strict guidelines on the severity of dysphoria and potential for mental/physical harm) it IS life saving. Where do people not understand that a profession that is not allowed to do harmful surgery and will not remove healthy limbs and organs recommends GRS because it is a health issue.

If it was just a cosmetic issue the Hippocratic oath would not allow the removal of genitals. The amount of transgender people who attempt/commit suicide over their bodies is staggering.

Plus as Monocle pointed out there is a thing against cruel and unusual punishment. Regardless of what republicans and law and order types would have you believe prison is already the punishment it's purpouse is to seperate offenders from society and preventing them from committing more crime.

Anyone who thinks you should lose more rights, get more punishment, or live like an animal locked up 24/7 with nothing but food and water is an asshole.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Do you have a table of what healthcare you would and would not be willing to provide prisoners?

No, I don't. It should be decided on a case by case basis. This is a no for me. Prison is about taking rights away. Even ones that are uncomfortable.

 

[Abstrusity]

Thank you. I took your post and did some more personal reading / investigation into the question. I think it's clear that this surgery is medically-necessary after doing so.

Aetna's requirements for it being deemed as medically-necessary is like applying to a job, but they list a variety of useful sources/studies for anyone else interested.

In summary, this is not just an elective surgery.

Thank you for being understanding.

The problems gender dysphoria causes cannot be underestimated, and as far as I am concerned, to purposely deny adequate treatment of it is to doom them to mental suffering approaching torture.

Even if it's a bad person. Even if they are a monster. To do that to someone is to be no better than they are, were, or ever will be.

 

[ThisGuy]

Surgery is 20k... we are talking pennies on the fucking dollar... spare me y'alls tax payer concerns.

Hmm, 20k a pop for a very small segment of the prison populace?

Seems like small potatoes to me. And its seen as medically helpful to that community, seems like the right thing to do.

 

[Syncytia]

I understand if my tax money going to take care of someone with cancer or a mental illness, but a sex-reassignment surgery?

What were you thinking?

From another angle, do you think all the taxpayer money fighting to not do the surgery was worth it? I would almost guarantee it cost way more than the surgery to litigate this.

 

[Kthulhu]

Tough on crime gaf strikes again

And transphobic GAF apparently. And people are surprised Trump won.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I understand if my tax money going to take care of someone with cancer or a mental illness, but a sex-reassignment surgery?

What were you thinking?

What do you think sex re-assignment treats....

Mental illnesses such a suicidal thoughts brought on by gender dysphoria, depression brought on by gender dysphoria, etc...

 

[StopMakingSense]

Hmm, 20k a pop for a very small segment of the prison populace?

Seems like small potatoes to me. And its seen as medically helpful to that community, seems like the right thing to do.

I'd imagine the actual cost is quite a bit less, as well, would be very interested in the medical contracting in the prison industry.

 

[Chainsawkitten]

Some disappointing responses in this thread. I know the American health care system has plenty of issues, but the solution is hardly to deny people you don't like treatment.

 

[dh4niel]

No way should tax payers be paying for surgery for a criminal on a life sentence. It's ridiculous.

If it was life threatening then yes. That would just be cruelty.

 

[Super_Cobra]

And transphobic GAF apparently. And people are surprised Trump won.

This has nothing to do with being transphobic. He lost his rights when he murdered a person. Was he considerate of the person's right before he murdered that person? No.

 

[StopMakingSense]

No way should tax payers be paying for surgery for a criminal on a life sentence. It's ridiculous.

Any surgery? REALLY?

 

[excelsiorlef]

No way should tax payers be paying for surgery for a criminal on a life sentence. It's ridiculous.

Pennies on the dollar...

 

[Naudi]

What a joke. Seems rediculous to make tax payers pay for it.

 

[Kthulhu]

No, I don't. It should be decided on a case by case basis. This is a no for me. Prison is about taking rights away. Even ones that are uncomfortable.

No.

Prison is about 3 things.

1. Punishment
2. Rehabilitation
3. Safety

Not necessarily in that order. Denial of reasignmet surgery to a trans person is tantamount to torture.

 

[dh4niel]

Any surgery? REALLY?

Read the edit.

 

[Ultryx]

Give me a fucking break.

 

[Abstrusity]

This has nothing to do with being transphobic. He lost his rights when he murdered a person. Was he considerate of the person's right before he murdered that person? No.

How does this excuse letting them suffer?

 

[excelsiorlef]

This has nothing to do with being transphobic. He lost his rights when he murdered a person. Was he considerate of the person's right before he murdered that person? No.

She!

Misgendering while trying to claim an absence of transphobia is pretty hilarious.

 

[Syncytia]

No way should tax payers be paying for surgery for a criminal on a life sentence. It's ridiculous.

If it was life threatening then yes. That would just be cruelty.

It would save the taxpayers a lot of money if we just put a bullet in the head of everyone ever convicted of a crime. I mean it's ridiculous to give them a bed and food for years or even the rest of their life.

 

[7DollarHagane]

No.

Prison is about 3 things.

1. Punishment
2. Rehabilitation
3. Safety

Not necessarily in that order. Denial of reasignmet surgery to a trans person is tantamount to torture.

The punishment portion of that IS taking rights away, the chief of those being freedom. The punishment is not physical harm, it's confinement and limitations on freedom and rights.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

I dont think the State shouldn't be paying for a prisoner's cosmetic surgery.

 

[dh4niel]

You think about the amount of trans people in the real world who can't afford surgery and this murderer gets a free ride.

 

[excelsiorlef]

GRS is a life saving procedure...

GRS
IS
A
LIFESAVING
PROCEDURE!


It is not "cosmetic surgery"

 

[Kthulhu]

This has nothing to do with being transphobic. He lost his rights when he murdered a person. Was he considerate of the person's right before he murdered that person? No.

Your even calling her a him. Bullshit this isn't transphobic.

You still have some rights in prison. You in favor of the Bush era torture too?

 

[metalslimer]

This has nothing to do with being transphobic. He lost his rights when he murdered a person. Was he considerate of the person's right before he murdered that person? No.

She. Dear fucking lord

Holy fuck at the transphobia in this thread. Cosmetic surgery?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

This has nothing to do with being transphobic. He lost his rights when he murdered a person. Was he considerate of the person's right before he murdered that person? No.

Yes it has, you see gender reassignment surgery as a commodity not as a necessity. It's comparatively mild but nonetheless belittling.

She lost her rights for personal freedom and most likely voting for a lifetime but she has a right to live nonetheless and that includes healthcare just as much as food. The justice system is not about getting even, you can't weigh a life like that you're never going to be even.

 

[Naudi]

No.

Prison is about 3 things.

1. Punishment
2. Rehabilitation
3. Safety

Not necessarily in that order. Denial of reasignmet surgery to a trans person is tantamount to torture.

Yeah let's all feel sorry for the murderer! Think of his feelings too, life threatening then yes but this is not the case.

 

[Kthulhu]

The punishment portion of that IS taking rights away, the chief of those being freedom. The punishment is not physical harm, it's confinement and limitations on freedom and rights.

You are harming her by denying her the surgery she needs.

 

[univariate]

She. Dear fucking lord

Holy fuck at the transphobia in this thread. Cosmetic surgery?

He

 

[Super_Cobra]

Your even calling her a him. Bullshit this isn't transphobic.

You still have some rights in prison. You in favor of the Bush era torture too?

*She.
I have no empathy for murderers and rapists. They didn't care for their victims. We already pay a high price to keep them in jail. There's more good citizens that need surgery but can't afford it.

 

[StopMakingSense]

He

Well now

 

[Ninja Scooter]

This is going to be a divisive topic only because people still ignorantly equate trans/reassignment surgeries to some kind of cosmetic procedure.

If the government and taxpayers are going to take the responsibility of imprisoning people than they take everything that comes along with it.

 

[Abstrusity]

You think about the amount of trans people in the real world who can't afford surgery and this murderer gets a free ride.

And that does not mean she should not be given access to it.

This same reasoning could be applied to anything.

The simple fact is, she has no ability to buy herself into access of it, and as such, would be left to suffer immensely.

If you believe that she should suffer, you need only say so.

 

[metalslimer]

He

What?

 

[Kthulhu]

Well I'm done. Let me know when this thread gets locked so I can cringe myself to sleep tonight.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, cool it's a good thing. On the other, there are plenty of other transfolk who can't afford this, who can't get proper treatment and are suffering, hardworking, depressed and struggling with it on a daily basis. This lady killed someone, is 57 years old, and will live the rest of her life in prison. Death is the final outcome, and she's already in the tail-end of her life. Why should CA residents, hell the daughter of the victim even, have their taxes go toward this? The murderer won't be corrected, the murderer will never know a life outside of prison, the murderer's life is effectively over.

My feelings on this are so conflicted, I want to feel what is ethically right, but I also don't feel the prisoner deserves this, since no matter what happens, her life is done. I'd rather see healthcare for all across the board, for people who are doing their absolute damndest to make it day-by-day and who can't afford it themselves, than see healthcare for someone who will die a murderer and in prison while there are freewalking citizens who cannot get such treatment.

 

[Keri]

Does the length of the sentence, factor into the decision to provide the surgery? For example, was it offered in this case, because it was a life sentence so the surgery could only be obtained if provided by the state?

I don't think I like the idea, that a murderer was given the surgery for free, where law abiding trans people lack access to it. Some people commit suicide, because they don't have access to this care. It almost feels like a bizarre incentive is being established. What's better, a life on the outside in the wrong body, where you may feel pushed to end it all? Or a life sentence in prison, but in a body that feels right?

 

[How About No]

No way should tax payers be paying for surgery for a criminal on a life sentence. It's ridiculous.

If it was life threatening then yes. That would just be cruelty.

Hmm is suicidal depression from dysphoria not considered life-threatening? Should she just get over it?

Why not just strap her to a bed and stick a fucking feeding tube in her mouth for the rest of her life, that oughta do the trick

 

[Matty77]

Again it's not cosmetic surgery.

Second for all the "but what abouters" yes it's true on the outside you get less options but the solution is not to take healthcare from prisoners it's to fix the countries healthcare for all citizens. But I have a feeling most of you actually know that your really not actually concerned about that.

 

[Naudi]

You are harming her by denying her the surgery she needs.

Needs? Why? More like wants, maybe a private organization should take donations to help these people out. Shouldn't be on tax payers.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, cool it's a good thing. On the other, there are plenty of other transfolk who can't afford this, who can't get proper treatment and are suffering, hardworking, depressed and struggling with it on a daily basis. This lady killed someone, is 57 years old, and will live the rest of her life in prison. Death is the final outcome, and she's already in the tail-end of her life. Why should CA residents, hell the daughter of the victim even, have their taxes go toward this? The murderer won't be corrected, the murderer will never know a life outside of prison, the murderer's life is effectively over.

My feelings on this are so conflicted, I want to feel what is ethically right, but I also don't feel the prisoner deserves this, since no matter what happens, her life is done. I'd rather see healthcare for all across the board, for people who are doing their absolute damndest to make it day-by-day and who can't afford it themselves, than see healthcare for someone who will die a murderer and in prison while there are freewalking citizens who cannot get such treatment.

It is the nature of prison, prisoners do not maker money ergo they cannot pay for things, thus they must be supplied...

Don't get mad a the prisoner get mad at the system that doesn't look after those on the outside....

We cannot race to the bottom.

 

[Yaboosh]

Does the length of the sentence, factor into the decision to provide the surgery? For example, was it offered in this case, because it was a life sentence so the surgery could only be obtained if provided by the state?

I don't think I like the idea, that a murderer was given the surgery for free, where law abiding trans people lack access to it. Some people commit suicide, because they don't have access to this care. It almost feels like a bizarre incentive is being established. What's better, a life on the outside in the wrong body, where you may feel pushed to end it all? Or a life sentence in prison, but in a body that feels right?

So argue for those outside of prison who can't afford it to have their surgery paid for. Don't argue for those in prison to be denied it.

 

[Mailbox]

You think about the amount of trans people in the real world who can't afford surgery and this murderer gets a free ride.

Then maybe we should be changing things outside of prison rather than condemning those who are inside it.



This thread really makes me realize that most people look at prison as a place to lock up and forget about people. Fuck their mental well being or anything else, ammirite?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Needs? Why? More like wants, maybe a private organization should take donations to help these people out. Shouldn't be on tax payers.

Groundhog day in here:

GRS is a need not a want, it is treatment not elective nor cosmetic surgery.... it is pennies on the dollar.... etc...

 

[metalslimer]

Needs? Why? More like wants, maybe a private organization should take donations to help these people out. Shouldn't be on tax payers.

Yeah and really we shouldn't be paying for beds or things like lighting or plumbing. All prisoners can sleep on the floor sinice that would save a lot of money.

This thread is a toxic slurry of people who don't anything about trans people and the tough on crime people who only want people in prison to suffer

 

[Jenov]

Feels wrong to be giving such a surgery to a convicted murderer on the tax payer's dime. Law abiding transgender people are suffering and are forced to pay for their own surgeries because they DIDN'T murder a person. Seems counter intuitive.

 

[Astral/H3X]

You people are fucking disgusting.

She deserves this, just as anyone else who needs it does.

Just because transphobic people are in places that they get to say "no" to most people, doesn't mean this person should also be told "no."